What others say: Should the GOP shut down the government to end Obamacare?

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  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    July 27, 2013 2:22 p.m.

    @one vote
    Salt Lake City, UT

    Why not just start a civil war and try to take over the tanks and drones?

    1:19 p.m. July 27, 2013


    It's possible in the land of make-believe Tea-Partiers seem to live in.
    Look at how many gun-toting traitors signed petitions to secede after Mitt Romney lost?

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    July 27, 2013 1:19 p.m.

    Why not just start a civil war and try to take over the tanks and drones?

  • 1conservative WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    July 27, 2013 10:49 a.m.

    I applaud Sen. Lee.

    Obamacare is unfortunately, unworkable.

    If the young people decide to "opt out" and just pay the penalty; it is going to collapse on its own weight.

    Thats why you are seeing Obama trying to get the young "rock stars" trying to promote it.

    There's simply no way it will work the way it is written without a large infusion of taxpayer (our) funds.
    We're wasting billions on the implementation of something that unworkable.

  • Mickey Kovars Tampa, FL
    July 27, 2013 9:51 a.m.

    I hope you Utahns manage to back off Mike Lee and his friends who want to defund Obamacare and/or shut down the government. Does he not understand what a Republican loss of the House of Representatives in 2014 would mean for the country? Catastrophic -- Obama and Pelosi and Reid running roughshod over what is left of our economy and our liberties.

  • glendenbg Salt Lake City, UT
    July 26, 2013 4:36 p.m.

    @Joe - The Constitution doesn't require us to amend it to take all its provisions seriously. It establishes in its first sentence "the general welfare" as a primary goal of the government. After the preamble, the Constitution is almost entirely an organizational development memo - here's how and how frequently you choose members, who is eligible to be a member, and who in the organization is authorized to make which decisions and how do the various parts fit together to do the work of governing. Civil liberties are addressed almost entirely in the amendments.

    The Framers intended it to a work in progress - providing a general governing structure with the flexibility to adopt new policies as circumstances demanded, not a document limiting the ability of government to act as needed.

    The principle of government providing for health care for citizens is well established - it's known as Medicare. Just as it doesn't require an amendment to legalize an airforce ("provide for the common defence") it doesn't require one to establish a regulatory structure to provide health care.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    July 26, 2013 1:20 p.m.

    glendenbg: It is true that the Constitution was not written in stone. There is an amendment process that allows we the people to grant more powers to the government if enough of us decide that the additional powers are good.

    But unlike most liberals who think the Constitution is just a "guideline" that can be ignored anytime someone like Obama decides that government should grow and tackle a whole new aspect of our lives; most conservatives believe like Mike Richards that the government should not be allowed to do that without a constitutional amendment.

    I find it interesting that many Obamacare supporters call GOP efforts to kill this law rammed through Congress as "Dirty Tricks", yet have been fully supportive of all the tactics of gay marriage advocates to pull an end run around valid votes by the people who support traditional marriage.

    Get a judge to nullify the California vote on Prop 8 - Good.
    Don't fund the Obamacare law - Bad.

    Is logic involved here at all??

  • glendenbg Salt Lake City, UT
    July 26, 2013 12:51 p.m.

    @Mike Richards - I would summarize your view of US the Constitution as "Anything which is not explicitly permitted is prohibited."

    That's a valid perspective, but not the only valid perspective. The Constitution empowers the national government to provide for the general welfare. The Constitution permitted slavery, denied women the right to vote - both things that were wrong and had to be changed. The people who wrote the Constitution weren't all knowing. They played politics. They made mistakes. They compromised on some things, they debated and argued.

    We face problems and circumstances the peope who wrote the Constitution could never have imagined. Their writings can provide us with insights and values but not a roadmap for today's problems.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    July 26, 2013 11:25 a.m.

    I want to say that no, the GOP should not shut down the government to end Obamacare, they should shut down Obamacare.

    The Republicans and Democrats should work together to repeal Obamacare. If they can't repeal Obamacare, they should pass a budget that allows the government to operate for the next year but does not include funding for Obamacare.

    Since its passage, its estimated cost has doubled, the things insurance covers has decreased, and the cost of insurance has increased. Very little good has been coming out of the ACA since its implementation.

  • the old switcharoo mesa, AZ
    July 26, 2013 10:35 a.m.

    It's all about the constitution until you don't get what you want. You don't have the constitutional right to shutdown the government.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    July 26, 2013 8:15 a.m.

    Mike... your statement "Nothing is "free" - especially government "services"."... is very true. If we kill Obamacare, the cost of dealing with the uninsured doesn't go away. This is one of those cases where there is a bill someone needs to pay... we just need to decide who pays it. killing Obamacare doesn't make the bill for healthcare go away.

    The option right now is to keep the status quo and have our emergency rooms turned into community clinics... where hospitals try to use outlandish wait times to discourage the use of Emergency services for basic care. But that is what we have now.

    No one will argue Obamacare is a faulted program... but no one has come forward with a solution. Torte law reform doesn't extend services to people who can't afford coverage.... it just indemnifies doctors from mistakes or malpractice.

    We stand here yelling from ideological cliffs partisan rantings where there seems to be little to no effort to invest in dialog that would result in real answers.

    Lee has no answers and has invested no political collateral. He is simply trying to find the best bully pulpit near the edge of the cliff.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    July 25, 2013 11:09 p.m.

    Seniors need to keep in mind that the Republicans/Tea Party will not stop with Obamacare rather Medicare is slated for destruction in their plans. The instilling of fear in seniors by this bunch of yahoos passes all understanding. So seniors, while you still have some strength you need to rise up and threaten the Tea Party gang, including Senator Lee.

  • FreedomFighter41 Orem, UT
    July 25, 2013 8:29 p.m.

    What is Lee's solution?

    You can't complain if you don't have solutions

  • Hemlock Salt Lake City, UT
    July 25, 2013 7:59 p.m.

    Only if they can propose a better approach that is affordable, provides some level of universal coverage and addresses the disastrous unintended consequences of the ACA.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 25, 2013 4:18 p.m.

    Some people continue to tell us that the Federal Government can do anything that a State government can do. That is false. The Federal Government is limited by the Constitution. The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land. Supreme Law means that no other law can be used to modify the Constitution. If the Constitution does not allow something, then the Federal Government CANNOT do that "something". ObamaCare is one of those "somethings". It is not authorized by the people; therefore it is something that must be left to the States or to the people. Massachusetts is not the Federal Government. It can do whatever its Constitution allows. If the people of Massachusetts allow the government of Massachusetts to force them to buy health insurance, then a state version of ObamaCare would be legal in Massachusetts.

    The Supreme Court said that ObamaCare is a TAX. It did not rule on the legallity of that TAX because ObamaCare had not been implemented; therefore "damages" could not be proven. After ObamaCare is implemented, the Court will have to rule on the legality of that TAX.

    Nothing is "free" - especially government "services".

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    July 25, 2013 4:15 p.m.

    I might understand the Republicants' flaming desire to repeal Obamacare if they had any alternative besides simply denying a good portion of society access to medical care because the market won't cater to them. Their solution is to let the 50 million without insurance swell to 100 million. And for those whose medical bills force them into bankruptcy, what do the Republicants say? "Too bad. You're just part of the 47 percent. You're takers. If you were makers, you'd be rich enough to afford decent health insurance."

    Wake up, Utah. GOP does not stand for God's Only Party.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    July 25, 2013 3:58 p.m.

    What happens next time Republicans are on top and the Democrats start using Republican tactics?

    Mike Lee, have you given up your gold plated Congressional health care plan yet? What goes around, comes around (Karma).

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    July 25, 2013 3:51 p.m.

    Just a reminder for republicans: This healthcare plan was the republican's plan when Clinton first attempted to give us a national healthcare plan in the 90s. This plan was created by republicans. It was enacted by Romney in his state.
    This is your plan republicans and it doesn't go far enough. It should be a single payer system.
    Just think of how many uninsured kids could get healthcare if money was spent on this instead of bigger, better bombs. For a political philosophy so enamored with morals, why do you oppose healthcare but encourage military spending?

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    July 25, 2013 3:47 p.m.

    Heavens no.

    How about an actual solution? Is that really too much to ask for? C'mon mike, one solid plan. You can do it!

  • Mickey Kovars Tampa, FL
    July 25, 2013 3:26 p.m.

    Shutting down the government to make a point would be catastrophic for the Republicans. If they had a plan of their own to replace Obamacare, they might have a leg to stand on. But generally, people do not like chaos and uncertainty, and for good reason. Technically they could do this, but I think it would be suicidal.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 25, 2013 3:25 p.m.

    Problems with Obamacare are a result of Republican sabotage and obstruction. Regardless of how accurate that statement is, it's a lot more believable if Republicans so blatantly openly try and block the law like Lee suggests and then tout it as an accomplishment. Still though, despite the electoral advantage for Democrats that historically comes with Republican gov't shutdown obstruction, I'd rather Lee and friends not harm the economy during their temper tantrum.

    Just remember, while a majority oppose Obamacare in polling, those polls also show that a majority either support Obamacare or oppose it because it's not liberal enough (that group is hardly fond of Republican alternatives).

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    July 25, 2013 2:39 p.m.

    Hint to all Republicnas...

    Hostage takers NEVER win.

    In fact - IMHO -
    The should be considered Domestic Terrorists
    traitors to our Nation.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 25, 2013 2:10 p.m.

    Mike Lee can read. He has read the Constitution. He has taken an oath to defend the Constitution. He will defend the Constitution even when Obama has paid off States to get ObamaCare passed (Louisianna, Nebraska).

    Obama knows that ObamaCare is not what he told us it was. He knows that funding it will either bankrupt the Country or it will bankrupt the individual. It costs many times more than he said it would cost. It won't cover many of the people that he said it would cover. It will not provide beter health care, like he said it would.

    What it will do is to transfer 18% to 24% of all money in the private sector to the government where that money will be mixed into the general fund, just like Social Security revenues. That money will not be kept in a "locked box" to be used only for health care. It will be used to pay for "pork". It will be used to buy votes.

    Anyone who can read can clearly see that the Constitution does not allow the government to administer health care nor does it allow the government to tax us for insurance.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    July 25, 2013 1:45 p.m.

    Does shut down the government me furlough everyone at HAFB? Put up or shut up Senator Lee

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    July 25, 2013 12:57 p.m.

    If President Obama talked about the importance of breathing to good health Mike Lee would advocate suffocation.

    Utah, Mike Lee is what you get when you knee-jerk vote for someone because he's got the magic "R" by his name and when the doctrinaire fringe of that party determines its candidates.

    Lee an embarrassment to our state. I take that back... he's an embarrassment to this nation.