Spokane UteRemind us again who Utah beat in 2004 to become the first
"BCS buster":Let me refresh your memory on the THREE teams
with winning records that the Utes beat during the regular season that made Utah
a "BCS worthy" team:Texas A&M(7-5)New
Mexico(7-5)Wyoming(7-5)Texas A&M, btw, was CRUSHED by
Tennessee 7-38 in the Cotton Bowl.
@BlueCougI remember the season well; I was two years out of Bingham
High. Re-read my posts. I stated that they had no control over their opponents
record; or their bowl opponent; unfotunately. They also opened the following
season by beating Washington; who was #2 in '84 I believe. I wonder how
they would have fared against one of the top 5 teams? We will never know. It
sure would be nice to see the programs get back on the National stage. The last
two years just haven't been that impressive. Neither is ranked in the
pre-season top 25 either. I wonder how long it's been since that happened?
Now I'm really done; you have a good one Guy; thanks for the
back and forth. Take Care!Rockwell, Naval & Wisconsin Coug have
a good one too.Later Gents!
Spokane UteNavel Vet "forgot" to mention that Utah
didn't even win the 1994 WAC championship because the Utes LOST to New
Mexico(5-7). It's funny how he always overlooks those little details.
Questionable calls in the BYU-Michigan game:In the first quarter,
the play was blown dead as BYU’s Leon White stripped Michigan’s
running back and returned it for what would have been touchdown.In
the second quarter, referees ruled that a Michigan fumble recovered by Kyle
Morrell was out of bounds. TV cameras clearly showed that the ball was still in
bounds when it was recovered. Upset BYU players were flagged for unsportsmanlike
conduct and Michigan went on to score a touchdown.In the third
quarter, Robbie Bosco threw a twenty-yard pass to David Mills that was ruled
incomplete for touching the ground. However, replay clearly showed it was a
catch. BYU was forced to attempt a long field goal which was then blocked.
Spokane UteI've never seen any BYU fan try to claim that BYU
1984 faced the most difficult schedule on the planet, but BYU had no control
over the how their schedule played out.BYU started the season on the
road against the then #3-ranked Pitt Panthers.Along the way, BYU
beat Air Force(8-4) on the road, a team that finished #24 in the final AP
poll.BYU ended the season playing the winningest college football
team in history.BYU's 1984 offense wasn't quite as
explosive as some of the teams lead by Wilson, McMahon, and Young, but what BYU
lacked in offensive explosiveness, they more than made up for in grit and
determination and a never-say-die attitude and refusal to lose.Three
goal line stands - against Pittsburgh, Air Force, and Hawaii - highlighted
BYU's defensive determination, and BYU's ability to mount a comeback
against a very good Michigan defense, despite a rash of turnovers and several
questionable calls, and with a quarterback that could barely stand for most of
the 2nd half, earned the respect of the national panels of sportswriters and
coaches who selected BYU as the consensus national champion for 1984.
@ RockwellYou have Utah in 3 or your top 6; I'm proud of you!
@Naval VetGood point, after all they did beat three ranked teams
that year, and one is a bowl game. Then again in 84 BYU beat, um, em, never
mind. BYU's 1984 Season, is kind of like Bowling Green's
this year. As long as you replace Florida St. in their bowl game with Minnesota.
From a statistical and unbiased stand point; very similar and comporable.
Best Seasons, based on rankings (which are the final measure of each season) and
records1) #1/#1 BYU(13-0) 19842) #2/#4 Utah(13-0) 20083)
#4/#5 Utah(12-0) 20044) #5/#5 BYU(14-1) 19965) #7/#7 BYU(11-1)
19836) #10/#8 Utah(10-2) 19947) #12/#12 BYU(12-1) 19808)
#12/#12 BYU(11-2) 20099) #13/#11 BYU(11-2) 198110) #13/#12 BYU(11-1)
197911) #18/#10 BYU(10-3) 199412) #14/#15 BYU(11-2) 200713)
#16/#15 BYU(11-2) 200614) #16/#17 USU(11-2) 201215) #16/#17
BYU(11-3) 198516) #18/#18 Utah(11-2) 200917) #20/#16 BYU(9-2)
197718) #19/#18 USU(9-2) 196019) #22/#17 BYU(10-3) 199020)
#22/#18 BYU(10-3) 1989
@spokane ute"Never said which I would "rather have", now
did I?"Actually that is exactly what you said in slightly
different words and are now trying to fudge out on. Let's review."I will take my Sugar Bowl trophy season over 1984 any day of the
week."We don't even need to go into your use of the phrase
"my sugar bowl season" as if you had anything at all to do with it other
than hopping on the bandwagon, let alone point out how absurd it is to think a
4th place finsish one year is even remotely comparable to an actual universally
recognized (exempting utah "fans") National Championship season but
I'll tell you what I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and take you
at your word this time. You probably would rather finish 4th. Congratulations?
Spokane Ute:I'm pretty sure Utah's Top-10 1994 season --
where we beat 4 teams who finished in the Top-25 -- was a more impressive season
than our little brother's '84 season.
@BlueCougNever said which I would "rather have", now did I?
I just stated which season was the most impressive. That's looking at from
the caliber of competition and the bowl opponent. I'm being honest;
congrats on your NC. I feel like I just went 10 rounds with Cosmo!
Spokane Ute"I will take my Sugar Bowl trophy season over 1984
any day of the week. I don't think you are being honest if you feel
BYU's season was more impressive."There are two iconic
trophies that symbolize major college football supremacy:The AFCA
Crystal Football National Championship trophy - the ultimate symbol of team
success in college footballThe Heisman Trophy - the most prestigious
individual award in college footballNo other team or individual
trophy even comes close to matching the prestige of either.BYU's Hall of Fame contains both.Utah's Hall of Fame contains
neither.Anybody trying to claim that they'd rather have the
Sugar Bowl trophy than the National Championship trophy is not being honest with
Best Season, based on stregth of schedule and bowl opponent:1) Utah
20082) BYU 19963) Utah 20044) BYU 19845) Utah St.
Wow, what a reaction. When someone honestly tells me that BYU's 1984 season
was more impressive then Utah's 2008 team, there's no need to go on
trying to be rational. There's no comparison. BYU's 1996 cotton bowl
team was better then the 1984 team. Look at the numbers. in 1984 BYU won the NC
by default. Was it their fault? Of course not, they played a weak schedule and
beat an average team in a bowl game, but finished as the only undefeated, and #1
ranked team. I wish they would have had the opportunity to play a top team like
Bama (2008); or even Kansas St.like BYU in 96. They could very well have won. So
which of these teams were better? We will never know. 2011 & 2012 seasons?
Yes, very close indeed. Statistically, BYU has a slight edge. Utah has score
board. The 54-10 smack down in 2011 is hard to over look. Wiscoug,
Rockwell, & UFan, nice rationale posts. Always nice to back up your position
with stats and facts. Macnasty, you are in here to pick a fight; good luck with
that. Everyone have a good one; I need a drink 8-)
Spokane Ute"Would you really prefer to play a weaker schedule,
lose to Utah, yet be ranked (out of the top 25) higher than Utah?"Fair question:2011:Utah(8-5) was unranked, #49 SOS. Utah had
a huge turnover-aided win over BYU, but also suffered a humiliating loss at home
to a 10-loss team that hadn't won a road game in over four years. BYU(10-3) beat a much higher ranked team, #35 Tulsa, in the Armed Forces Bowl,
than Utah beat in the Sun Bowl, #56 Georgia Tech. BYU finished #25 Coaches, #26
AP, #34 Sagarin, much better than not receiving a single vote in either poll and
finishing #39 Sagarin.2012:Utah(5-7) finished unranked,
#61 in Sagarin, #41 SOS, no bowl, 0-2 against Top 25 opponents, and barely
beating BYU as Utah's only win against a winning team. BYU(8-5)
finished unranked, but #26 in Sagarin, #63 SOS, 1-4 versus Top 25 teams, but
very competitive road losses against three Top 25 teams and BYU's fourth
straight bowl win.Despite a couple of disappointing losses to Utah,
I prefer BYU's better overall success in 2011 and 2012.
RE: Spokane Ute"I will take my Sugar Bowl trophy season over
1984 any day of the week. I don't think you are being honest if you feel
BYU's season was more impressive."That is a fair point, and
one I might agree with (that Utah's 2004 SEASON was more impressive than
BYU's 1984 season). However, it is very debatable which of those two TEAMS
were better. Remember that BYU was riding a 24 game winning streak at the
conclusion of 1984 and had been ranked in the top 15 six of seven years from
1979-1985. I don't know how many players were drafted during that span but
I bet it was more than a few. Given the dynasty they were in the early 1980s it
is no wonder that they were named the CONSENSUS national champions in 1984, even
in an era when nearly one third of all national champions have not been
consensus. I don't mean to take anything away from Utah (2004, 2008), they
were certainly dominant teams, I just don't think they were better than
BYU's 1984 squad.
Spokane Ute,"I don't think you are being honest if you feel
BYU's season was more impressive."So let me get this
straight: any BYU fan that thinks a 1984 national championship winning season is
more impressive than Utah's 2008 #2/#4 season is being dishonest?
That's quite a statement, and in the words of NV, quite "emotional and
frantic". If you polled the entire College Football world, do you think they
would agree with you? Doubtful. But, I realize that me saying so is just an
opinion, as is your statement about not being honest. Here is a fact
for you (as in, NOT an opinion): There are two lists out there. The first is a
list of programs that have won a consensus Division 1-A (FBS) football
championship and the second is a list of those that have not. My opinion about
that is a vast majority of people on the planet would consider being on list #1
far more impressive than being on list #2. Again, just my opinion.
Re: Spokane Ute @ 11:51 am "I will take my Sugar Bowl trophy
season over 1984 any day of the week."That is fine with me
because Spokane Ute, that is all you have. "I don't think
you are being honest if you feel BYU's season was more impressive."I am being totally honest. I don't have to spin it upward like you
do your Sugar Bowl win. It was, is and will remain at the top. You are not being
honest with yourself or anybody in pretending that a 2nd/4th place win is
actually better than a National Championship."Actually I do own
the hoodie, but something tells me you don't have anything from almost 30
years ago."I take offense at that. In the words of Judy the elf
in the movie The Santa Claus, I probably "have shoes older than you."
Spokane Ute"There are many factors that go into determining
who's the better team. In Utah and BYU's case, BYU was ranked higher.
Utah played a tougher schedule."Despite your claims to the
contrary, SOS is considered by the AP and Coaches poll voters. How else to you
account for an undefeated team from the MAC or C-USA barely being ranked, while
numerous 1- and 2-loss teams from the power conferences are ranked in the Top
10?Your Sugar Bowl trophy is a great accomplishment, but NOTHING
compares to a Crystal Football National Championship Trophy and the organization
that awards that trophy, the American Football Coaches Association (AFCA) only
ranked the Utes #4 in 2008, your greatest season ever. BYU's Cotton Bowl
winning team of 1996 finished #5 in the Coaches poll.
MacNastyActually I do own the hoodie, but something tells me you
don't have anything from almost 30 years ago. I will take my Sugar Bowl
trophy season over 1984 any day of the week. I don't think you are being
honest if you feel BYU's season was more impressive. To each his own. No
need to be Nasty, just a differing opinion Guy. The fact of the matter is, BYU
couldn't help who they played, the system was messed up. It's gotten
better, and is going to get better. LoneStarYou prefer to be
renked slightly higher and lose to your bitter rival: equaling the better
team.I prefer to be ranked slightly lower and beat my bitter rival:
equaling the better team.It would be nice to do both. Anything out of the
top 25 is pretty dissapointing to me anyway. Fair Enough?Question
though, and be honest:Would you really prefer to play a weaker schedule,
lose to Utah, yet be ranked (out of the top 25) higher than Utah?
Re: Spokane Ute @ 11:27 amYou were the one that knocked off the moth
balls first. You asked and I responded.BTW: BYU was ranked #1 going
into the Holiday bowl and ranked consensus #1 going out. Those are the facts.
You can go by BYU whenever and look at the national championship trophy; it is
still very shiny and still very real.
@ LonestarI've been over and over this again. There are many
factors that go into determining who's the better team. In Utah and
BYU's case, BYU was ranked higher. Utah played a tougher schedule. Utah
BEAT BYU on the field. In my opinion, yes Utah was the better team. It's
not as if Utah's win was a huge upset (aka Colorado vs Utah, or UNLV vs
Utah). As far as Alabama-Texas [email protected] goes, yes, in my opinion, Texas A&M was
the better team. They went into Tuskaloosa (sp) and knocked off Bama. They
finished ranked #5. Maybe you should get on a SEC thread and tell Texas A&M
fans that Bama was better. I'm sure they would second my opinion. Same goes
for Stanford-Oregon. It's a debate that has no clear winner, or right or
wrong answer. You are entitled to your opinion, as I am. I doubt either one of
us will convince the other. Let's agree to disagree. I'm fine with
that and I totally under stand your view point. An iterensting debate none the
@MacnastyYes, you must be so proud, knocking off a 6-6 Michigan team
and not beating a single ranked team. Wha Hooo! Do you have to knock the moth
balls off when you put it on? Just askin......I've already
stated that yes, 2012 was dissapointing, finishing one game from a bowl. Oh
well, 9 out of 10 years isn't bad. I did enjoy watching the BYU-SDSU game;
it was a good one.
Riverton Cougar:"Just because they're not in the Big 12
doesn't necessarily mean that the Big 12 didn't want them. I
don't have a large screen TV, but that doesn't mean that I don't
want one."Actually, it DOES mean they weren't wanted.
Don't forget that the Big 12 used to have 12 teams. Now there's 10.
So it seems to me that there's 2 vacant spots in that league should THEY
(the Big 12) decide to fill it.Conference membership is a 2-way
street. To be a member, the team must first be "invited". Once
invited, the invitee must "want" to be a member, and "accept"
the invitation. AFA (and our Indy-WACey little brother) WANT to be in the Big
12, so the only thing stopping them from joining is that they don't have an
invitation.And that's because the Big 12 doesn't WANT
Cougsndawgs:"You're going to discredit Bronco because the
Beavers weren't ranked in the final AP/Coaches polls? Why were they not in
those polls, Nav? Oh that would be because BYU pounded them in the bowl
game."It would have been because Oregon St. finished 8-5 that
year. 8-5 teams don't get ranked.
Spokane UteYou've never explained why you think one
head-to-head win in a 12+ game schedule proves which team is better.Overall records and rankings are much better indicators. I can give you
countless examples that disprove your head-to-head theory, but here are just a
few.#1 Alabama unanimously winning the 2012 national championship in
both the AP and Coaches Polls despite losing at home to #5 Texas A&M.#2 Oregon finishing way ahead of #6/#7 Stanford in both polls, despite
losing at home to the Cardinal.And, closer to home, NOBODY, not even
you, would even consider claiming that UNLV(2-10) was better than Utah(9-4) in
2007 just because the Rebels shut out the Utes 0-27, or that
Colorado(3-10) was better than Utah(8-5) in 2011 just because the Buffs beat the
Utes on their home turf.The exact same logic applies to head-to-head
vs overall season results when comparing BYU and Utah.
Re: Phoenix and Duckhunter,Please be kind to the Ute Trolls. They
are doing the best spin they can to minimize BYU's national
accomplishments, brand, and legacy. They realize that the meaningful facts are
not on their side so they engage in meaningless comparisons and ad nauseum
numbers crunching minutia.All they have had is five good seasons in
the last forty years and a couple of 2nd and 4th place finishes on a national
basis. Other than that, there cupboard is bare.Ya know, somebody
should compile the list of BYU's accomplishments and put it in a file.
Every time a Ute troll comes on a BYU article, just paste the file in the
comment section as a response. It will drive them crazy.
Re: Spokane Ute @ 7:27 amFine, you can wear your bride's maid
hoodie. That was the year the Utes ranked #2 in the AP and #4 in the
USA/Coaches poll. I was talking about watching the bowl season of 2012. At any rate, I will wear my consensus National Championship sweater and
you can wear yours...but wait, oh, sorry again.
True BlueYou may want to get your facts straight before attacking
someone. I certainly don't consider my self arrogant in any way, shape,or
form.PhoenixI'm glad you have calmed down, I
thought you were going to blow a gasket for goodness sake. Not grasping as
straws at all, I merely mentioned head to head games, which really hit a nerve
with you; for some reason? Last year was certainly disapointing, and I'm
hoping for better fortune next year. The last 10 years have been awesome, so you
may want to find some one elses parade to rain on. It's not going to work
with me. Also, it's awesome how you can predict the future; now that's
quite a talent!
True blue:That statement was made by Howie, who's a ute troll and
homer. Spokane ute is actually more reasonable than that.
Howie:"Exclude WAC/MWC teams from your definition of quality wins.
Beating Utah State with a winning record is not the same as beating Alabama with
a winning record".Your arrogance regarding BCS opponents is laughable.
I guess Alabama should be even more upset that a midmajor Utah team that's
done nothing since beating them, gave them such an embarrassing loss in the
sugar bowl. You bag on Utah state, yet they lost on a last second field goal @
Wisconsin (B1G champion), and beat U (BCS pretender, but still BCS). I guess we
should exclude our wins over Utah and TCU also because they were MWC. You sound
like Oklahoma fans against Boise, like Alabama fans against Utah, etc. Your
"BCS" arrogance doesn't make U a BCS quality team."What major conference teams with winning records has BYU beaten?"Oregon, UCLA, Oklahoma, Oregon state, Washington, Georgia Tech...in the
Mendenhall era. Do you want me to go further back? It gets better, lol.
What's interesting is that many of the teams above that had winning regular
seasons, are the exact programs Utah has been unable to beat (PAC12 teams with
Spokane UteYou seem to be grasping at straws because its becoming
painfully obvious that Utah isn't even in the same hemisphere with BYU when
it comes to comparing accomplishments on a national scale.Take a
deep breath and just admit it, it's back to the future for U. Just like the
80's, Utah's bowl game has once again become BYU.
Spokane Ute"Exclude WAC/MWC teams from your definition of
quality wins. Beating Utah State with a winning record is not the same as
beating Alabama with a winning record."Beating Utah State is not
the same as beating Alabama, but beating ANY Top 25 team is certainly MUCH
better than beating ANY unranked PAC 12 team, especially one with a losing
record.Get over your BCS arrogance! NOBODY except U is
impressed with your wins against losing teams. In fact, only beating
Colorado(1-11) 42-35 is more of an embarrassment, than an accomplishment!
PhoenixYou seem to be getting upset with my simple question. You
must own a black and white TV, I watched the last three games in HD. You seem to
be rambling, and all over the map. Take a deep breath, it will be OK. I'm
just some one with a differen't opinion who supports your rival.
Spokane Ute:"Why not just cut to the chase and discuss Utah's
record vs. BYU? What a concept!"Because the discussion was about
national relevance. No one outside the BYU/Utah fanbase cares what they did
against each other. In the end they look at wins and rankings. No one cares what
Alabama did against Auburn lately except their fanbase...the rest of the country
only sees their number 1 ranking, national awards, and impressive record.
Spokane Ute"Why not just cut to the chase and discuss
Utah's record vs. BYU?"Because on a national and overall
accomplishments scale, Utah's record vs. BYU is IRRELEVANT!U
won a whole bunch of head-to-head games back in the days before color
television, but Utah is a complete ZERO in national accomplishments before 1964,
and a near complete ZERO in national accomplishments before 2004.As
much as it pains U to admit it, BYU has almost as many AP Top 25 finishes in the
last seven years, as Utah has in its entire history.It's
laughable that fans of a program that's only managed FIVE AP Top 25
finishes in their entire history would be trying to prove their
"superiority" over a program that has more than THREE times that number
of AP Top 25 finishes.The stark reality for U is this:BYU: Ranked in AP Poll: 11 Times (Preseason), 17 Times (Final), 236 Weeks
(Total)Utah: Ranked in AP Poll: 2 Times (Preseason), 5 Times (Final), 77
Weeks (Total)Get back to us when U reach double digits in AP Top 25
finishes. It took U 119 seasons to reach FIVE!What a
@TrueBlueExclude WAC/MWC teams from your definition of quality wins.
Beating Utah State with a winning record is not the same as beating Alabama
with a winning record.Your analysis is another example of BYU
relying on its record against 2nd tier competition to justify its relevance.What major conference teams with winning records has BYU beaten?
@ PhoenixWhy not just cut to the chase and discuss Utah's
record vs. BYU? What a concept!
howardAfter all of your posturing and spinning about SOS, quality
wins, BCS opponents, rankings, and general excuse-making about why the Utes have
been so pitiful in establishing their relevance through national rankings and
overall record, the bottom line is this:In wins versus FBS teams
with winning records (quality wins) and losses versus teams with losing records
(ugly losses):Bronco: 22-4Kyle: 22-6Bronco has
matched Kyle in quality wins, but is better than Kyle in avoiding ugly
losses.TWO of Kyle's losses were EXTREMELY ugly, as in losses
to 10-loss teams.
howie"If the BCS label doesn't make them quality
competition why does BYU lose to the BCS more often than they win?"Obviously, you're still having a hard understanding that any opponent
with a losing record cannot be defined as "quality" competition.When you've figured that out, get back to me and we'll discuss
BYU's record versus quality competition versus Utah's record versus
non-quality competition (that is, teams with LOSING records).
phoenixGilbert, AZ"Simply attaching the BCS label to any
team doesn't make them "quality" competition."***********If the BCS label doesn't make them quality
competition why does BYU lose to the BCS more often than they win?
@mussingaroundPalo Alto, CAObsessing about SOS... not me...All anyone needs to know about BYU's place in world of college
football is that when they play teams from MWC/WAC and lower conferences they
have an 80% winning percentage... when they play teams from BCS conferences they
have a 46% winning percentage.The "legacy" that BYU fans
cling so desperately to is a "2nd tier legacy" based on 2nd tier
competition... because it certainly isn't based on BYU's 46% record
against teams from the 1st tier conferences. Think of it this way...
against 2nd tier competition BYU is the windshield... against 1st tier
competition BYU is the bug.And yet... Cougar Nation astoundingly
believes that their 46% BCS record places them on equal footing with the elite
teams who earn their success year in and year out against 1st tier teams from
the strongest conferences in the country.
@McNastyI will put on my Sugar Bowl Hoodie, you know the one with
13-0 on the back; and watch the 2009 Sugar Bowl. Remember that one? You know a
BCS bowl, against a SEC Power House? Oh...that's right sorry.
howie"The point is that Cougars like to talk about these things
because they can't justify the relevance of their team with on-field
results against quality competition."Can U?Simply
attaching the BCS label to any team doesn't make them "quality"
competition. Having a winning record determines whether they're
"quality" competition or not.During Utah's best period
EVER, quality wins against BCS teams with winning records (WW) barely outnumber
embarrassing losses to any team with a losing record (LL) 9-7:2003
1-1 WW = California(8-6); LL = Texas A&M(4-8)2004 2-0 WW = Texas
A&M(7-5), Pittsburgh(8-4)2005 1-2 WW = Georgia Tech(7-5); LL = No
Carolina(5-6), SDSU(5-7)2006 0-1 WW = NONE; LL = New Mexico(6-7)2007
0-1 WW = NONE; LL = UNLV(2-10)2008 2-0 WW = Oregon St(9-4), Alabama(12-2);
LL = none2009 1-0 WW = California(8-5); LL = none2010 1-0 WW =
Pittsburgh(8-5); LL = none2011 1-2 WW = Georgia Tech(8-5); LL = ASU(6-7),
Colorado(3-10)2012 0-0 WW = NONE; LL = none
howieAnd let's not forget the fact that the Utes could not win
enough games last year to make a bowl game despite all their talk about being so
great.And let's also not forget that Ute fans like to base
their predictions of future PAC10.2 results based on past performance in a
McWacish conferences while whining about SOS.
Howard S.Since when does attaching a "bcs" label to any team
automatically make that team good, bad or mediocre?It's
laughable that you obsess about "computer-generated" SOS, while
completely ignoring the computer-generated rankings that are based on team
records against said SOS.Sagarin's computer-generated rankings
during the Bronco/Kyle era, along with the "human" rankings and team
records:2005 unranked/#55 BYU(6-6) < unranked/#51 Utah(7-5)2006 #16/#15/#19 BYU(11-2) > unranked/#54 Utah(8-5)2007 #14/#15/#17
BYU(11-2) > unranked/#34 Utah(9-4)2008 #25/#21/#32 BYU(10-3) <
#2/#4/#5 Utah(13-0)2009 #12/#12/#15 BYU(11-2) > #18/#18/#24
Utah(10-3)2010 unranked/#45 BYU(7-6) < ur/#23/#26 Utah(10-3)2011
ur/#25/#34 BYU(10-3) > unranked/#39 Utah(8-5)2012 unranked/#26
BYU(8-5) > unranked/#61 Utah(5-7)BYU better than Utah 5 of 8
seasons. Unfortunately, the results disprove your theory that
computer-generated rankings are "more accurate" because they consider
SOS. As you can plainly see, there's not much difference. Humans also
consider SOS when ranking teams.
And what's your definition of "getting-r-done" against the big boys
Howie? 7-11 with no wins against conference teams with winning records, let
alone being ranked? Watching A Christmas Story instead of a bowl game? Sitting
outside any and all rankings for offense, defense, sports writers and computers?
It would be one thing if Utah had even been close to the rankings but they
weren't even top 50 in any poll or power ranking, so all your fussing about
human error or writers and computers etc just comes off as whiney sour
grapes.It amazes me how some ute fans want to continue to belittle
BYU for accomplishments the utes have never had, or make excuses like SOS for
Utah's failure, while using it as a way to minimize BYUs accomplishments
despite having the same SOS for nearly a century (jealous much?). WE "prefer
to talk about things like SOS"? No, Howie, that's you, Nav vets, and
AZUTEs standby excuse for every ute failure and BYU success. One only needs look
back on all the posts from U three to see who is perseverating on SOS, and
continually, nauseatingly bringing it up.
Re:Cougar NationSOS, rankings, sports writer opinions, and
coulda-woulda-shoudas...Cougars like to throw these things out as
validation of their national relevance.Consider this...SOS? computer generated analysis is always accurate, right?Polls?
polls are based on votes of sports writers and secretaries of college coaches -
both groups known for their accuracy, right?Sports writer opinions?
if writers could coach or play they would, instead they spout opinions for which
there is no accountability.Coulda-woulda-shoudas? talk to the
hand.The point is that Cougars like to talk about these things
because they can't justify the relevance of their team with on-field
results against quality competition.Let's not be distracted
from the fact the Cougars have a losing record against BCS teams (ranked and
unranked) that Bronco has played... their record is great against 2nd tier
competition, but when they play the big boys they lose more than they win.So Cougars prefer to talk about things like SOS, rankings, preseason
predictions, 3rd tier bowls, and coulda-woulda-shoudas... anything that
distracts from the fact that when it comes to playing the big boys they
As long as we're talking Phil Steele lets look at some other facts:BYUs power ranking would have placed them tied for 4th in the PAC12, while
Utah's was 9th. BYU has the 12th rated WR unit in the country while Utah
isn't ranked in the top 15 for any unit. As Wiscougar stated BYU has 8
preseason all independent 1st team players, 5 2nd team, and 1 3rd team...Utah
1st team all conference- none, 2nd team- 1, 3rd team- 1. Preseason Top 40- BYU
#37, Utah NR. Steele also does an interesting analysis of
"strength of wins" and "quality losses". In strength of wins he
analyzes a teams wins and then the number of wins those opponents had (giving
only credit for opponent wins of teams you beat). BYUs Strength of Wins ranking
was 49 (35 wins by opponents they had beat)...Utah's ranking was 86 (15).On
the flip side, quality losses takes a teams losses and totals the number of
losses the teams they lost to had. BYU ranked 35 (opponents lost 16 games), Utah
ranked 79 (33). It's no wonder NV, AZUTE, and Howie only want
to talk SOS...for them what else is there?
steeleuteYou lost credibility by claiming that 10-3 or 11-2
wasn't within easy reach.An errant snap scoop and score gift at
Utah in a 3-point loss, a missed 2-point conversion because one player missed
one block at Boise State in a 1-point loss, an errant pass to a wide open
receiver with nothing but green grass in front of him at Notre Dame in a 3-point
loss, and 3 incomplete passes from the 6-yard line in the fourth quarter at San
Jose St in a 6-point loss were the difference between finishing 10-3 or 11-2, or
7-5.Utah's SOS wasn't its problem. Utah's pathetic
offense (109th in the country, unbelievably, worse than BYU's 58th ranked
offense) was the reason Utah didn't win more than 5 games against a
schedule that only included two ranked teams.If you think you can
make the same argument for Utah, go for it, but, just to warn you, you're
going to look awfully foolish. The Utes didn't lose a single game by less
than a touchdown.
Re: Duckhunter @ 5:45 pmOne thing NV knows how to do is write
"desperate" and "emotional"; he is a master at them both.
naval's back declaring himself victorious. It's a good thing the
actual navy doesn't do that.LOL!
mussingaround:And it was 4 of our losses, not five. Oregon State,
Utah State, and UCLA
mussingaround:You lost credibility at "BYU could have easily finished
10-3 or 11-2". You finished the regular season at 7-5 with an SOS in the mid
seventies and this season you'll have an SOS around 25. I could make the
same argument that if Utah had half of an offense last year they could have made
a bowl game at 7-5 or 8-4 but I won't because I don't play the
"if's and but's" game.
Re: Spokane Ute @ 1:58 pmYeah, it was hitting the wrong key. I was
in a hurry because I actually have a job and things to do. Pardon my slip.Utah State was #22 in the BCS final rankings, BYU #55 and Utah #60.Thanks for wishing me a great day. I think I will sit back and watch our
2012 bowl game; and you? Oh.....that's right, sorry.
steeleuteFour of BYU's five losses last season were to Top 25
teams, including 3 road losses by a combined 10 points. With even a slightly
improved offense, BYU could have easily finished 10-3 or 11-2.Five
of Utah's seven losses came against UNRANKED teams, including four
double-digit losses. Utah wasn't even close to improving on a dismal season
that ended with another embarrassing performance against another horrible
Naval Vet,So Air Force was wanted too. Just because they're not
in the Big 12 doesn't necessarily mean that the Big 12 didn't want
them. I don't have a large screen TV, but that doesn't mean that I
don't want one.
Naval Vet:First of all you're misrepresenting what I said. I never
said I didn't think Phil Steele would have Utah's SOS much higher than
BYUs for 2012 in his publication. I was using BCS rankings, which are the most
accurate we have, to show that BYUs avg opponent was very close to Utah's,
and that BYU still played 5 top 25 teams while Utah only played 2. I realize
most publications are going to have Utah's SOS higher than BYUs because
Utah's schedule is tougher top to bottom (which is exactly what I said). In
the end Steele believed BYUs team to be better than Utah's in 2012 and
predicts they'll be better in 2013...SOS is just part of the equation,
except with you and Howie, and AZUTE who think it's the end-all."The "final polls" are the "AP" and the "USA
Today", and Oregon St. did NOT finished ranked in those final polls".Oh please. You're going to discredit Bronco because the Beavers
weren't ranked in the final AP/Coaches polls? Why were they not in those
polls, Nav? Oh that would be because BYU pounded them in the bowl game.
Bluto:So BYU for sure goes bowling this year and Utah doesn't.
Interesting statement considering BYU went 7-5 last year with a much easier
schedule than they have this year
navelvet"Funny you never hear the Academy's fans making up
dubiously unfounded claims to explain why they weren't invited."The only thing "dubiously unfounded" about the claims is the
blinding hatred you have for BYU that prevents you from seeing reality. The only
thing keeping BYU out of the PAC 12 is the religious bigotry of a couple of
member schools. The only thing keeping BYU out of the Big 12, is BYU's no
Sunday play policy and minor disagreements concerning television rights.The "research" university "requirement" was nothing but
a smoke screen to give the PAC 12 cover for not wanting to invite a private,
religious school. Baylor, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma State all have the same high
research level classification.One thing that's becoming very
clear, however, is Utah wasn't invited to the PAC because of their
"superior" athletic programs. As most fans expected, the Utes have
finished near the bottom of the conference in every sport except women's
navel vetLOL at your SOS spin, while intentionally ignoring the REAL
rankings:2012 BYU #262012 PACy-WACers #612011 BYU
#342011 PACy-WACers #39btw, When are the Utes
going to open the SOS wing of their Athletic Hall of Fame...closet?
@ Tomahawk RedCorrect and Thank You!
What difference does having "bowl ties" make, if you're not even
good enough to qualify for a bowl?Teams like Indiana, Vanderbilt,
Iowa State, Duke, and Washington State have the exact same types of "bowl
ties", but when was the last time any of those teams played in a bowl that
anybody except the bowl participants cared about?Frankly, the vast
majority of fans couldn't care less who's playing in the Alamo Bowl,
or the Sun Bowl, or the Las Vegas Bowl, or the Poinsettia Bowl, or the Kraft
Fight Hunger Bowl, or any bowl outside of the playoffsUNLESSit's their team. Fans who actually attend bowl games,
just want an interesting bowl venue and a competitive bowl opponent. Bowl payout
is meaningless. Most teams LOSE money playing in a bowl.Even the
so-called "major" bowls will lose considerable prestige as soon as the
playoffs begin, especially when the playoffs expand to 8 teams, which will only
take a couple of years.
Riverton Cougar:"Can you honestly tell me that if BYU
didn't have a no-Sunday policy and if BYU had no special request for
broadcasting rights, that the Big-12 would have not invited BYU?"No more than you could "honestly" tell me that they WOULD have. But
based on what I've seen, the more plausible scenerio was that the
Indy-WACers weren't selected because they weren't wanted. TCU and WVU
were simply the better options. "You must have a short term
memory because the Big 12 did show interest in BYU. I know you will deny it
because it debunks your claim that nobody wanted BYU, but you don't show
interest in a team you don't want."YOU must have a short
term memory, because the Big 12 did show some interest in Air Force too. AFA
has an ACTUAL "national fan base", higher academics than the
Indy-WACers, and have no broadcasting rights issues.And ultimately,
they weren't wanted either.Funny you never hear the
Academy's fans making up dubiously unfounded claims to explain why they
weren't invited. I guess they're all just too classy.
Wiscougarfan:"You, of course, ignored the message I
posted...."No I didn't. I called you out on it. You
deliberately took my words out of context, and now you have to eat crow.
Don't try to change the argument.
TatorsHyrum, UTI'd like to know if anyone has seen any articles
concerning Utah going to a future bowl game... any bowl game at all, even lower
tier? No... I didn't think so. Neither have I.------------That's because we have our bowl ties taken care of for us. Utah
doesn't have to do mad scrambles to snatch up bowl contracts like BYU
does.Yet another disadvantage of your precious independence.
WiscougarfanRiver Falls, WIRE: Spokane UteSo your
response to my earlier post is that BYU can't play in a bowl in San Antonio
that Utah didn't make it to two years ago?------------No, his point was simple. Utah missed the Alamo Bowl by four points... whereas
even a 10-win BYU wouldn't have had the opportunity play in it.Translation= Utah has access to bowls that BYU can't get into.
"I did not such thing, you weren't undefeated in 2001."Uteology,You sure did. Here's the article you quoted:"BCS denies Cougars; BYU headed to Liberty: A 12-0 record, top
scoring offense proves not enough"You misunderstood when I said
undefeated Cougars. I mean to say that the Cougars were undefeated when the BCS
denied them. Is 12-0 not undefeated?Naval Vet,Can you
honestly tell me that if BYU didn't have a no-Sunday policy and if BYU had
no special request for broadcasting rights, that the Big-12 would have not
invited BYU? You must have a short term memory because the Big 12 did show
interest in BYU. I know you will deny it because it debunks your claim that
nobody wanted BYU, but you don't show interest in a team you don't
@MacnastyUtah State is worth more than $22.Have a great
Naval Vet,Last 2012 and 2011 final BCS rankings INCLUDE SOS. It
seems that you choose to ignore this fact.Fact that your Utes ranked
#60 and BYU ranked $55 is telling. Considering many factors, which SOS is one,
BYU was a better team than Utah in 2012.BTW: Utah State ranked $22.
I give Utah State and recognize them as the best FBS team last year among the
three even though BYU defeated them.Utah is the little brother of
BYU in terms of national recognition, national awards, legacy recognition, and
national brand. BYU's fanbase is twice that of Utah's. I
don't think you can spin that or the final BCS rankings.Have a
RE: Naval VetFine, you win. Utah's SOS was higher than
BYU's in both 2012 and 2013. I've never contested this fact because I
don't think it's a big deal, BYU still has a great schedule lined up
for this coming season. You, of course, ignored the message I
posted which reiterated that according to Phil Steele, who you deem as
"entirely unbiased" and whose "publications have been consistently
noted as the most accurate of all college football publications" that BYU
finished last season ranked higher than Utah and begins 2013 again ranked higher
than Utah. Now, I'll reiterate that it doesn't matter how unbiased or
accurate one is, preseason hype is just that, hype. But you can't ignore
his claim that BYU finished last season as a stronger team than the U (despite a
Duckhunter:"Although she/he will show up and try to somehow
claim "victory" anyway. It isn't just that she/he has to convince
all of us that she/he was "victorious", she/he obviously has to try to
convince herself/himself as well. Funny stuff, as always."Victory for me indeed. That excerpt from Wiscougarfan was a deliberately
disingenous quoting of me taken out of context. Nobody said anything about
"Power Ratings". Cougsndawgs and I were talking about SOS. And Phil
Steele DID INDEED put a LOT more distance between our 2 programs than
Cougsndawgs thought they would. Utah's 2012 SOS was ranked 27 spots ahaead
of our little brother's, and our preseason 2013 SOS (at #12) is ranked
ahead 37 spots!
Wiscougarfan:That quote you posted today at 10:22am was a desperate
attempt to FINALLY prove me wrong. But sadly for you, it did NOT. The
"desperate" part was your deliberately taking my words out of context.
That was written in response to Cougsndawgs' insistence that "Utah
played a good schedule last year but it wasn't much better than BYUs."
Phil Steele's publication was due out on the magazine stands yesterday
morning, but the rack I purchase my reading material didn't stock until
after lunch today. Here's what it said...2012 Utah SOS:
#412012 Indy-WAC SOS: #68Cougsndawgs insisted the distance
between our 2 programs' SOS was 7.53. Phil Steele puts it somewhere around
27. HUGE difference there. I said, "Phil Steele will release his preseason
magazine...he'll talk about the prior season, and give a final grade on
SOS. There, you will find Utah's SOS much more difficult than yours...For
both 2013 (preseason estimate) and 2012."And I was right. Case
closed.P.S.: Phil Steele ranked the following preseason SOS for
2013...Utah = #12; Indy-WAC = #49.So I was right AGAIN!
Just the FAX:"Simple logic says that team with better record and
higher ranking is the better overall team."And even MORE simple
(and more accurate) logic says that the team who keeps putting more points on
the scoreboard both 3 in a row, and 8 of the last 11 times is the better overall
Cougsndawgs:"[mendenmidmajor] beat Oregon State who was ranked
18 in the final BCS polls of 2009."That's a red herring.
The final "BCS polls" are NOT the final polls. That poll is only
designed to determine who gets into the Rose, Fiesta, Sugar, Orange, and
Nat'l Championship bowl games. The "final polls" are the
"AP" and the "USA Today", and Oregon St. did NOT finished ranked
in those final polls. Ergo, mendenmidmajor did NOT beat any ranked BCS teams.
Who did you think you were fooling with that spin job?
RE: Spokane UteFor once we definitely agree. Pre-season hype means
nothing, I simply posted the last one because with Naval Vet's set-up it
was too good to pass up. Cheers.
@WiscougarfanLOL!Although she/he will show up and try to
somehow claim "victory" anyway. It isn't just that she/he has to
convince all of us that she/he was "victorious", she/he obviously has to
try to convince herself/himself as well. Funny stuff, as always.
@WisconsinCougDon't put too much stock in pre-season
polls/predictions. That and 75 cents will get you a Desseret News, news paper. I
found that out last year. The season needs to start soon, everyone
needs some new ammunition.
@anti BCSPollsters and sports writers are not the power brokers of
modern era of college football. The BCS and the 5 power conferences rule in
college football and they have shown little regard for the glorious polling
legacy of BYU.Cougar nation should be prepared to be satisfied with
mid-major glory when the power 5 leave them behind.
We may not hear from Naval Vet for a while, since he recently posted... "I can see the trepidation in your last post. You're worried
that Phil Steele will put more distance between our 2 programs. I think he will
too. But here's the thing about Phil Steele:(1) He's entirely
unbiased. He's neither pro-Utah nor pro-IndyWAC.(2) His publications
have been consistently noted as the most accurate of all college football
publications.(3) There can be no cherry-picking of stats because neither
you nor I have seen it since it hadn't yet been released." What does this "unbiased" and "most accurate publication"
say?BYU preseason rank #37, 2 players on preseason all-america team,
8 first team all-independent (5 second team), final 2012 power rating of 141
(higher is better)Utah preseason rank NR, ZERO players on preseason
all-america team, ZERO first team all-PAC12 players (one on second team), final
2012 PR of 129. He was right, Phil Steele has certainly put more
distance between the two programs. Go Cougs!
Howard S."People who cling desperately to an illusory legacy and
who fear being left behind in a mid-major wasteland when the power conferences
form a 1st tier division."Nothing but jealous speculation from
supporters of a program that's never even sniffed a legacy.BYU
has been a perennial Top 25 team since 1977, 18 of 36 seasons (50%), 5 of 8
during the Bronco/Kyle era (over 50%). The Utes have never been ranked in 50% of
the polls in any decade in their history, and from the way things are going in
the PAC, they never will - 0 for 2, with not a single vote in either final poll.
Is there anything funnier on these boards than naval's daily attempts to
proclaim an internet victory? LOL!naval I have told you this
numerous times and maybe one of these times you'll actually get it. If you
have to declare yourself the victor, in otherwords if you have to lamely try to
convince everyone else that you somehow "won" an internet argument, then
the reality is you did not.LOL!
@WON84There certainly are a lot of nervous people here.People who cling desperately to an illusory legacy and who fear being left
behind in a mid-major wasteland when the power conferences form a 1st tier
"The irony is, I LIKE Utah, the football team anyway. And I've grown
rather fond of you, Spokane Ute, and I REALLY do hope Utah does better than I
fear they will this year." Most of Spokane's posts indicate
he doesn't feel threatened by the presence of BYU. But, the rest of the
Ute fans that visit these boards...well, they're usually first to comment
on articles related to BYU and author at least half (if not more) of the
comments which follow. I really think their biggest fear is BYU becoming BYU of
old. I don't know why it matters when they're no longer in the same
conference and for the most part, recruits that are going to BYU are going to
BYU. But, there are a lot of nervous people here.
@CougsndawgsWest Point , UT"rankings will always hold more
weight, especially from a national perspective"********No... rankings do not hold more weight... if rankings held the weight you
think they do BYU would not be facing the very real peril of being left behind
in a mid-major wasteland when the 5 power conferences form an elite division.But hey... BYU can always retain its status as king to the mid-majors...
well except for Boise.
SpokaneUte:Thanks for understanding lol. In the end I was simply trying to
point out that how our respective programs do in terms of post season, wins, and
rankings will always hold more weight, especially from a national perspective,
than what they do against one another. I also agree that getting to a bowl game
is going to be much tougher for both schools this year. Good luck to the utes.
Spokane UteSpokane, WAAmen, but I really don't spend time
on Utah articles unless a) there is absolutely, positively nothing going on with
BYU football; or b) the Utes have done something truly worthy of
congratulations. Anyway, keep your best Utah shirt ready, I'll
do the same with my favorite BYU shirt (quest or something) and maybe someday
we'll meet in a fine dining establishment in Spokane and make all the zags
wonder just what I the heck that's all about.
Y Grad/Y Dad,I do, but I've come to notice that the same trolls
(both sides, and you know who you are) dole out the same drivel over, and over,
and over....I also think many post under several names. Both BYU and
Utah have brutal schedules, so getting to a bowl will be tougher than in the
past. When I step away from the blog and haters; I too hope BYU does well this
year. I know a lot of great BYU fans, in person. It's unfortunate that BYU
doesn't have more bowl options, but that's the way it goes as an
independent. Any how, Thanks for your kind words and I look forward to mixing it
up with you in the future. Its certainly refreshing dialogue for a change. Take
care and have a good Guy!
Just the FAXIt's a waste of time trying to use logic with some
blogger; they're so blinded by their personal biases, that they immediately
reject any logic that refutes their distorted view of reality.
Spokane UteSpokane, WASimilar to the way ute fans totally
write off the possibility of a big boy bowl for BYU. Granted, I'm not
betting the farm on it, but if I was betting the farm on anything it would be
this:I like BYU's chances of going to a bowl this year more
than I like Utah's. The irony is, I LIKE Utah, the football
team anyway. And I've grown rather fond of you, Spokane Ute, and I REALLY
do hope Utah does better than I fear they will this year. But this
is a BYU article. I can deal with reasoned discussion from the loyal
opposition, and I think Mildred and Earnest can be funny, if not over done a
little. But I get so tired of viscous gnashing of teeth trying to be passed off
as clever smack. Don't you, brother?
spokane uteSimple logic says that team with better record and higher
ranking is the better overall team.Hence,#1/#1
Alabama(13-1) better than #5/#5 Texas A&M(11-2)#2/#2
Oregon(12-1) better than #7/#6 Stanford(12-2)Utah(8-5) better than
Colorado(3-10)Utah(8-5) better than UNLV(2-10)and#25/#26/#34 BYU(10-3) better than unranked/#39 Utah(8-5)andunranked/#26 BYU(8-5) bowl winner better than unranked/#61
Utah(5-7) bowl no showThat's just the way it is in the real
@CougsnDawgsHonest mistake; I spoke too soon. This subject has grown
old and tiresome. My take? BYU's independence is great for scheduling, not
so great for post season. Both Utah and BYU have very tough schedules this year.
I'm hopeful Utah improves on last year, I will be pulling for them, but
wouldn't guarantee anything. Peace, have a good one!
Soooo Boston College is to Notre Dame, what Utah is to BYU? Yet Utah has beat
BYU 4 out of the last 5 games, and Notre Dame has beaten Boston College 4 out of
the last 5 games. You may want to try another angle; that one is severly flawed!
Or simply flip flop BYU and Utah; in your logic/debate; now that would make more
CougsndawgsActually, BC is 4-4 over the last 10 years; they didn't
play in 2005 & 2006. Over the last 12 years; they are 6-4. So BYU isn't
concerned about losing to Utah because they think they were the better team?
Really? What in the world makes you think Notre Dame wasn't concerned about
losing to their rivals 6 times in a row? Now I've heard it all! That's
pretty cool knowing what the Notre Dame and BYU football programs think! What a
LOL! I'm really having a bad day. I shouldn't post while I'm at
work. I was going between schedules between ND and BC and it's actually the
other way around. BC had better records and was ranked higher than ND 5 out of
those 6 years in a row...so apparently there is no point, and I'm just
going to quit posting when I'm working...lol, I've even confused
Watch out. Naval vet is going to make sure nobody gets too "emotional."
Yet he will capitalize and place exclamation points and degrade and demean and
write phrases like, "end of story!" I echo the comments from a previous
poster. You make occasional good points but they are blurred by your hatred
toward your church school. Go figure.
UteologyBronco was also reportedly pursued/interviewed by Colorado,
Arizona State, and UCLA before he withdrew his name from consideration.Other teams pursuing Kyle still doesn't change the fact that Bronco has
out-performed Kyle 5 of the 8 years they've been head coaches; that Bronco
has a better record and that Bronco has more Top 25 FinishesAP Top
25 FinishesBronco 4Kyle 2AP Top 15 FinishesBronco
3Kyle 1Top 25 Finishes AP or CoachesBronco 5Kyle
3Conference ChampionshipsBronco 2Kyle 1Overall RecordBronco 74-29Kyle 70-32Bowl GamesBronco 8Kyle 7And, while Utah fans pretend that only the
winning side of the ledger counts, let's not forget:Losses to
10-loss TeamsBronco 0Kyle 2Losses to conference bottom
dwellers:Bronco 0Kyle 6 (Colorado, New Mexico(2), Wyoming, Colorado
State, UNLV)Losing SeasonsBronco 0Kyle 1
Utah fans,Thanks for your fascination with everything BYU,
especially your temper tantrum like anger about BYU leaving the MWC for
Spokane Ute:Over the last 10 years BC is 6-4 against ND, but won those 6
games 6 years in a row. 5 out of those 6 years the Irish ended the season ranked
higher and with a better record than BC. The point is ND wasn't concerned
about losing those 6 in a row because they were the better team the majority of
the time. Also those 4 in a row that the Irish have recently won were close
games except the 31-13 win ND had.
Naval Vet:Do you feel better now? I find it humorous how much you call
everyone else emotional, yet you seem to be the most emotional person on
here...it's entertaining though, so don't stop posting.
@CougsndawgsFinal BCS ranking don't take into account bowl
games. So what's your point?Unlike Boston College, Utah was
ranked a top 10 program the last decade by CBS Sports. I guess that's what
happens when you finish ranked 6 times (with two top four finishes).
NV: You feel better now? Lol. Breath, don't hyperventilate.
CougsndawgsNotre Dame has 4 in a row vs. Boston College, and 4 out 5
since 2005. They are 4-4 vs. each other over the last 10 years. Not sure how
that equals "getting owned"?
Cougsndawgs:"See what happens when you post before you
read?...now who's embarrassed?"Apparently....YOU!As for myself, I DID notice that you had backpedalled a bit with Howard, but I
hadn't read your recantment at the time I responded. That said, there was
nothing inaccurate about my post, whereas yours was a frantic and emotional,
grossly overstated, and utterly inaccurate statement, so don't go and try
to turn this around on me. I was "right". You were "wrong".
Ergo, YOU are the embarrassed one who's having some difficulty in getting
the taste of his own foot out of his mouth.
@Rockwell: "Kyle had a great year in 2008, but has done precious little
before or since."I guess these teams disagree with your
analysis:"Utah's Whittingham reportedly was offered
Tennessee job" -- USA Today"Utah football: Whittingham on
Miami's target list" -- SL Trib"ASU Coaching Search
Stalls: Kyle Whittingham To Stay In Utah" -- Seth Pollack (SB Nation)
Howie:I'm sure that ND also notices the trend with Boston College
having owned them over the last decade. However, as long as ND is going to
championships and ending seasons ranked while BC is not, why should they care?
No difference between BYU and Utah. Grats to Utah for beating BYU lately, but
"Cougar Nation" is more concerned with the overall performance of their
program. This is just another example of how it's really BYU fans that have
"moved on" and give much less regard to Utah than the other way around.
@Nav Vet"So essentially, Whittingham trumps mendenmidmajor both in
"quantity" of wins, and in "winning rate/percentage". Do you see
what happens when you start getting all frantic and emotional again? You get
embarrassed."Please see my post to Howie before this post of
yours. I was counting ranked opponents, not BCS opponents, and apologized for
the error. I was also counting wins against ranked opponents at the time of the
game which I indicated. See what happens when you post before you read?...now
who's embarrassed?@Howie"Bronco has beaten 0 BCS
opponents ranked in the final polls. While I disagree with your count of records
against BCS opponents... the point stands that Whit has a winning record against
BSC teams and Bronco has a losing record".Correction, he beat
Oregon State who was ranked 18 in the final BCS polls of 2009. While we're
at it the only BCS team ranked in the final BCS poll that Whit beat was
Alabama.I also didn't include Louisville or Pitt as BCS opponents on
Utah's schedule (an oversight on my part which exposes my bias against the
big least ever truly being a BCS conference...again my mistake).
Y GradYou act as if going to a bowl game is a given. You may want to
take a look at your schedule before popping off. Six wins is far from a gimmie;
especially the way both Utah and BYU played last year; and especially
considering this years schedule(s).
@AZUTE1Speaking of trends....I find it amusing that
Cougar Nation sees an irreversable trend in one missed bowl game for the
Utes.... Yet, they see no trend at all in having lost three in a row
and eight of the last eleven to Utah.LOL...
@ RockwellThe numbers are very similar. I noticed you left out the
head to head comparison. I'm sure it's just an oversight.@
Y GradNo kidding, I mean Utah has only been to a 9 of the last 10
We Might beat Utah in football, We Might beat Utah in football. lol.The Big 10 Might call, The big 10 Might call. lol.Independence
wasn't a Mistake, Independence wasn't a Mistake. lol.Go
I love you Mildred!!
2BCSWINSWest of I15, UTTo borrow a phrase from my Utah friends
(yes, I have many), "what have you done lately?"Take your
smack and go sit in a corner. Keep repeating to yourself, "we MIGHT go to a
bowl game, we MIGHT go to a bowl game."Sometime before 2020.
u fans...explain to me your logic...what do you gain by
arguing with BYU fans that you are superior?If you win...You are still nobody in your conference. You are still irrelevant in the
national football scene. You are still an after thought to EVERYONE outside of
SLC.If you lose...You are still nobody in your
conference. You are still irrelevant in the national football scene. You are
still an after thought to EVERYONE outside of SLC.AND a lesser
program than BYU.So it is obviously worth your time to argue.
@2BCSWINS--Furthermore, both UTAH/byu have reached 11 bowl games
during this current BCS Era. We all know about what UTAH's accomplished
twice, something byu hasn't ever even remotely sniffed, ever, but
here's another glaring reality relative to bowl games--UTAH is
10-1, while byu has struggled to keep their collective-head above .500 at
6-5.Why they bring up our 1st missed bowl game since '02, by 1
game no less, is utterly mind-boggling, to say the very least. As if
constituted a trend or something and as if it magically caused their utter
futility in bowl games by comparison to disappear or something.Not
to mention our head-to-head results. LOL
re: spokaneute: Yes, I stand corrected. They did beat FOUR top 25 teams that
year though, and you didn't "burst my bcs-fascination bubble".Kyle had a great year in 2008, but has done precious little before or
since.Bronco has finished with a better record and higher ranking in
5 of the last 8 seasons, including 3 of the 4 seasons since 2008.2005 unranked/#55 Bronco(6-6) < unranked/#51 Kyle(7-5)2006
#16/#15/#19 Bronco(11-2) > unranked/#54 Kyle(8-5)2007 #14/#15/#17
Bronco(11-2) > unranked/#34 Kyle(9-4)2008 #25/#21/#32 Bronco(10-3)
< #2/#4/#5 Kyle(13-0)2009 #12/#12/#15 Bronco(11-2) >
#18/#18/#24(10-3)2010 unranked/#45 Bronco(7-6) < ur/#23/#26
Kyle(10-3)2011 ur/#25/#34 Bronco(10-3) > unranked/#39 Kyle(8-5)2012 unranked/#26 Bronco(8-5) > unranked/#61 Kyle(5-7)OverallBronco 74-29, FIVE Top 25 Finishes, TWO MWC championshipsKyle 70-32, THREE Top 25 Finishes, ONE MWC championshipThe records
and rankings speak for themselves.Don't bother with whiny SOS
spin; it's already considered in the rankings.
UofU1991Yes, I stand corrected. They did beat FOUR top 25 teams that
year though, and you didn't "burst my bcs-fascination bubble". How
has Kyle done vs. Bronco Mr. Helper? Why so bitter? Amazing how defensive and
nasty people get. The fact of the matter is than neither Utah or BYU have done
Riverton Cougar:CORRECTION....The Big 12 never "rejected"
the Y's demands because there was NO offer. So said Holmoe.
@UoU 1991BEING at Top 25 team, however, is far more important than
merely beating a Top 25 team.--------------Apparently
not in Provo:"People danced in the streets. They hugged perfect
strangers. They lit off fireworks. And in general, they celebrated and
celebrated and celebrated... In the wake of BYU's stunning 14-13 upset over
No. 3 Oklahoma, spontaneous celebrations erupted throughout this city and lasted
well into the early hours of the morning on Sunday." -- Deseret News
(2009)Please tell us when was the last time you celebrated a top 25
finish in the streets of Provo.
@MarkitdownUSC was up 24-21 at the end of 3rd @RES. They won only
because of Mark Barkley.Against Georgia Tech Markely was injured and
their freshman QB lost 21-7. Wittek threw for 107 yards, Nelson 208 and I think
Barkley is a better QB so maybe 300+?@Riverton Cougar: Uteology
brought up that an undefeated 2001 BYU team was denied a BCS bowl...Utah fans
should thank BYU for being part of the groundbreaking that lead to a Utah 2004
BCS bowl game.I did not such thing, you weren't undefeated in
2001. Utah fans are thankful to Hawaii for exposing the 2001 BYU team as a
BCS-busting fraud.The only groundbreaking BYU did was getting
rolled-into-the-ground by Utah as we made history TWICE.
@my two dad's....."You want to talk 3 in a row, 4 of the last 5 (6)? Go
ahead! Can't stop ya. But Utah has NOTHING, when it comes to bowl smack. Go
scheme and dream that MAYBE you'll join us in the Kraft Mac&Cheese
bowl. If you catch several lucky breaks."Really?...Utah 2 BCS
bowl win's cougies 0....Utah 13-4 overall in bowl games Cougies 13-17-1
overall in bowl games.....Utah same amount of bowl win's while playing 14
less games. As you can see the winning % in bowl games is laughable how much
better utah is. Utah also has beat the highest ranked team either has played in
a bowl game. Don't start bowl smack talk Utah's bowl
history is miles ahead of what the cougies have done.
Riverton Cougar:"BYU haters here are saying that all major
conferences rejected BYU. That is not necessarily true; they have rejected
aspects of BYU which don't have to do with football. For the PAC, they
rejected their religion. The Big 12 rejected their demands for broadcasting
rights...BYU haters don't listen to reason and will continue to say that
BYU is 'unwanted', when they obviously weren't."No, the reason why the Indy-WACers weren't invited was because they WERE
"unwanted". The Big 12 never "rejected" the Y's demands
because there WAS an offer. So said Holmoe. Utah is full of the same religion
the Y is, and that never kept US out of the Pac-12. "Religion" is just
the sour-grapped frantic and emotional "excuse" that never was grounded
in anything factual. Everybody knew the Pac-10 liked Tier-1 Research
institutions, and everybody knew that the Y was NOT one of those. You
weren't qualified. End of story.
Naval VetWith all of that winning against "bcs" and
"ranked" teams, how is it that Whittingham has been so inept at actually
finishing in the Top 25?Could it be that his big wins have been
neutralized by big losses to unranked teams and teams with losing records like
10-loss UNLV and 10-loss Colorado?LOL at the frantic and emotional
spin to try to paint finishing UNRANKED as an accomplishment!
Riverton Cougar:"Utah fans should thank BYU for being part of
the groundbreaking that lead to a Utah 2004 BCS bowl game."The
only thing we need to thank our Indy-WACey little brother for leading the Utes
into the 2004 (and 2008) BCS bowl was "thank you for rolling over for us to
complete our undefeated season(s)".You Y fans need to do your
research. You guys didn't pave any road for us. From the beginning of the
BCS system, non-AQs were eligible for a guaranteed bid if they finished in the
Top-6 of the Final BCS poll. Tulane ('98), Marshall ('99), and Miami
[OH] ('03) did not finish high enough. Utah did. The relaxed standard
wasn't put into effect until 2006...the year Boise St. busted the BCS.
Boise St. did not obtain a Top-6 ranking, but as the standard dropped to Top-12,
they were able to get into the Fiesta Bowl.Utah and TCU were the
only BCS busters to have gotten in without needing the relaxed standards. So
stop trying to take any credit for us. We don't owe you any thanks.
Spokane Ute"Actually Whit beat 3 BCS teams in the final USA
Today poll in one season (2008-2009): Alabama #6, TCU #7 and Oregon State #19
(and BYU #21)."Was TCU also a member of the Southwest Conference
in 2008?Sorry to burst your bcs-fascination bubble, but TCU
wasn't a bcs team in 2008.Utah had ONE good year, in 2008,
beating several Top 25 teams. Other than that one break-through year, however,
Kyle is 2-10 versus Top 25 teams.BEING at Top 25 team, however, is
far more important than merely beating a Top 25 team.Bronco has FIVE
Top 25 finishes; Kyle only has THREE.
Cougsndawgs:"Bronco has a better record against BCS and ranked
opponents than Kyle W"No he doesn't. Since 2005,
mendenmidmajor is 12-14 (.462) vs. BCS schools, and 3-15 (.167) vs. teams that
finished ranked in the final AP poll. Over that same period of time,
Whittingham had gone 21-16 (.568) vs. BCS schools, and 6-13 (.316) vs. teams
finishing ranked in the final AP Poll.So essentially, Whittingham
trumps mendenmidmajor both in "quantity" of wins, and in "winning
rate/percentage".Edge: Whittingham.Do you see what
happens when you start getting all frantic and emotional again? You get
HowardActually Whit beat 3 BCS teams in the final USA Today poll in
one season (2008-2009): Alabama #6, TCU #7 and Oregon State #19 (and BYU #21).
BYU's independence gives them flexibility in scheduling; and
that's a good thing. They have put together a solid schedule this year.
Their independence gives them no flexibility in post season: to me, that's
a bad thing. It seems like the majority of the BYU fans are content being locked
into the Vegas or Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl. To each his own.
Cougsndawgs:"What would OU have done with Sam Bradford the rest
of the year."They most likely would have maintained (or
expanded) the lead, and won the game. Duh!
The DeuceLivermore, CA "I have a unique idea for the
Cougars: Win and you will have a choice of bowl games. Keep on the same path as
last year and we will be talking about this same topic next year. Take a page
out of the Boise State play book - win!"Exquisitely good
comment, especially as illustrated by the fact that if you don't win,YOU STAY HOME.
CougsndawgsWest Point , UTLet's not confuse the issue of
ranked opponents by including those ranked at the time of the game.Only opponents ranked in the final polls have proven themselves to be worthy
opponents.Bronco has beaten 0 BCS opponents ranked in the final
polls.Whit has beaten 2 BCS opponents ranked in the final polls.While I disagree with your count of records against BCS opponents... the
point stands that Whit has a winning record against BSC teams and Bronco has a
Let's get some things set straight.Uteology brought up that an
undefeated 2001 BYU team was denied a BCS bowl. As we can see in the history of
the BCS, it took a few undefeated teams before they finally accepted an
undefeated non-BCS team. It is said that people say "No" a few times
before they say "Yes". Utah fans should thank BYU for being part of the
groundbreaking that lead to a Utah 2004 BCS bowl game.Also, BYU
haters here are saying that all major conferences rejected BYU. That is not
necessarily true; they have rejected aspects of BYU which don't have to do
with football. For the PAC, they rejected their religion. The Big 12 rejected
their demands for broadcasting rights. Note that there was interest in BYU, but
the conferences didn't see BYU as a perfect fit for them. Of course, BYU
haters don't listen to reason and will continue to say that BYU is
"unwanted", when they obviously weren't.
Howie: Because I can own up to mistakes when I make them, I will apologize
and tell you that I realized Bronco does not have a better percentage than Kyle
W against BCS opponents but it's still very close. KW is 16-15 against BCS
opponents, while Bronco is 11-12. I was focused on ranked opponents when I made
the above statement, and Bronco does have a better winning percentage against
ranked opponents than Whit (36% to 28%). My apologies.
Y>UAnaheim, CAYeah... San Diego State was a real
powerhouse... keep telling yourself that... you may start believing it.But it's like I said BYU does great against the WAC/MWC, but when they
face the BCS big boys they have a losing record... like 46%.Oh, you
never answered how BYU will maintain its illusion of relevance when the five
power conferences inevitably leave BYU and the mid-majors behind...hmmmmmmm?
If only the DNews could disable comments until a year after an article is
written. Maybe then all this pathetic bickering wouldn't exist..Utah knew the first few years in the PAC would be rough. BYU knew that the
first few years of independence would be (contingently) filled with WAC
opponents. Everyone shut your PC/Mac down and wait until the dust
settles. Both sides have their respective Pitt's ('84 and
'04)/Michigan's (once again, '84 and '08)/Oklahoma's
that seem like quality BCS-title contenders before the season ends.Hindsight is 20/20.Foresight is well......apparently perfect.
LaMont is a true visonary.
CougsndawgsWest Point , UTBronco has a better record against
BCS and ranked opponents?Uhhh Nooooo.... Making up your own facts
again?In 36 games against BCS opponents Whit has a 56% record with
two victories against teams ranked in the final polls.In 26 games
against BCS opponents Bronco has a 46% record with no victories against teams
ranked in the final polls.The amusing thing is that with a losing
record against the BCS the Cougar Nation thinks that the Cougars will sail
through a schedule with six BCS games like it was the typical WAC heavy
schedule. If history holds BYU will lose 3-4 of the BCS games plus
Boise and then have to struggle against Utah St. Houston, and Nevada just to
qualify for a 3rd tier bowl game.
bottom line:16 photos celebrating BYU's exciting Poinsettia
Bowl win over SDSU.0 photos of Utah's couch potato bowl.
I suspect you will see conferences go away and with our fanbase and national
reputation we'll start signing exclusive agreements with the cream of the
crop of the SEC, Big12, and PAC12--our bowl games every year will be BYU vs.
Alabama, BYU vs. Oregon, BYU vs. Oklahoma. Also, we have a better football
program than everyone in the PAC except for Oregon... that's really why we
If BYU plays a bowl game in California, Arizona or Texas, in Dec/Jan etc.,
it's all good.Getting to watch any fb in Dec/Jan takes the sting out
of Dec/Jan weather even in Saint George.
I have a unique idea for the Cougars: Win and you will have a choice of bowl
games. Keep on the same path as last year and we will be talking about this same
topic next year. Take a page out of the Boise State play book - win!
"Speaking of relevance, how will you claim Cougar relevance when the five
power conferences split from the NCAA to form an elite division excluding the
likes of SDSU and BYU?"IF that happens, the Utes will become
nothing more than the Ole Miss of the PAC, the Indiana of the BlG or the Iowa St
of the Big 12 - a perennial losing team and conference bottom dweller that will
never play in another bowl game again.
howard"Pretty good opponent??? Please.... it was San Diego St...
the truth is that BYU has a great record against the mid-low/major
WAC/MWC."LOL at your frantic and emotional spin.The
truth is Utah is only 17-12-1 all-time versus SDSU, while BYU has dominated the
Aztecs 27-6-1.In 2012, the Aztecs(9-4) tied for the MWC championship
and, unlike the Utes, SDSU actually qualified for a bowl. While the Utes were
getting CRUSHED by Washington 15-34, the Aztecs were actually competitive
against the Huskies, only losing 12-21 at Washington. Also unlike the Utes, the
Aztecs beat a Top 25 team, #18/#14 Boise St. 21-19.
@Howie"But the truth is that BYU has a great record against the
mid-low/major WAC/MWC.When BYU plays the big boys of the BCS it has a
losing record."And this makes them different from Utah how?
Bronco has a better record against BCS and ranked opponents than Kyle W. Were
you trying to elevate Utah's status with that comment, or just testing how
your foot tasted?
howieDid you know that Kyle is 7-11 in the conference and
hasn't beaten a single PAC 12 team with a winning record since joining the
conference?Utah can't even beat the little boys of the
conference - two losses to PAC teams with losing records including a home loss
to 10-loss Colorado, one of the worst teams in the country.FOUR of
BYU's five losses last season were to Top 25 teams, 3 of them by a combined
10 points on the road.FIVE of Utah's seven losses last season
were to UNRANKED teams, 4 of them by 10+ points.The USC team that
easily handled the Utes in RES, was overpowered in the Sun Bowl by the same
Georgia Tech team that BYU destroyed on the road.
@Snack PACOlympus Cove, UtahSpeaking of relevance, how will
you claim Cougar relevance when the five power conferences split from the NCAA
to form an elite division excluding the likes of SDSU and BYU?
Snack PACOlympus Cove, UtahPretty good opponent???Please.... it was San Diego St.But the truth is that BYU has a
great record against the mid-low/major WAC/MWC.When BYU plays the
big boys of the BCS it has a losing record.Let's see how the
Cougs do against a schedule that isn't padded with WAC cupcakes.
@WA_Alum&DadMarysville, WA"If we never play Utah
again, that would be just fine with me."**********Amen...
and Amen.Utah shouldn't be granting BYU a BCS game... much less
on a home and home basis.
Howard S."Major college football is defined by... and will
continue to be defined by the five power conferences..."Unfortunately for U, the only relevance U have in one of those five power
conferences is as a punching bag for the big boys of the PAC to pad their
conference win totals.Your conference may be a "power
broker", but you're nothing but a bottom feeder, forced to live in the
reflected light of programs that have actually accomplished something in the
PAC.Wins over PAC opponents with winning records: ZEROLosses
to PAC opponents with LOSING records: TWOThe fact that you're
here trying to minimize the bowl accomplishments of a team that actually won a
bowl game against a pretty good opponent last season speaks volumes for just how
irrelevant U really are.
CO Ute:I agree. How an article about Utah's "former" rival,
and a team Utah fans "don't care about" could garner so much
crimson attention is beyond me. As with most of their lives, the ute trolls are
living in some fantasy where they believe BYU is no longer a rival and no longer
their concern, yet show up without exception on articles about BYU to
resoundingly prove otherwise...hilarious and sad at the same time.
@BlutoBYU will be bowling and Utah won't.BYU goes 11-1,
12-0 they're in a big bowl.------------You mean
like in 2001?"BCS denies Cougars; BYU headed to Liberty: A 12-0
record, top scoring offense proves not enough"I think BYU has a
better chance of ending their 40+ years of discussions with a "Big 12"
invite then getting a "big bowl".
@Just TruthSaratoga Springs, UTDid I say 5 times?Oh, and as for Utah's tough PAC12 schedule... did you know that Bronco
has a losing record against BCS teams?
@Elmer Fudd"Why don't you try and read and comment on Utah only
articles. You'll be surprised how many Utah-haters you'll find on
those articles! Sorry, but hating goes both ways not just Utah fans hating
BYU!"Because I don't give a flying rip about the U, and I
can't imagine wasting time trolling their stories. If we never play Utah
again, that would be just fine with me.
I always chuckle at the Utesies for running down the very bowl games that
Commissioner Larry Scott negotiated for his sixth and seventh place teams.Sure is disappointing when you don't go bowling in these
'third tier' custom created bowl games huh?I've said
it once, I'll say it again... Had there been a Laramie Bowl in late
January, Utes would have been proud to have gone... if they could have won
enough games. LOL
Like it always does, this thread has deteriorated into "neener neener
neener," and "oh, yeah?"What do we know?BYU
has TWO bowl choices, and realistically only one, and they've done pretty
good at getting there. They've played in games against teams that are
meaningless to our Ute friends. There's a surprise. But
seriously, we're taking smack from bowl-less Utah??? You have six bowl
options, realistically one, or none. The PAC whatever HAS six bowl tie-ins,
but how many have gone unused in recent years because the PAC can't get
enough teams to six wins? Does that slipper fit any princesses around here?You want to talk 3 in a row, 4 of the last 5 (6)? Go ahead! Can't
stop ya. But Utah has NOTHING, when it comes to bowl smack. Go scheme and
dream that MAYBE you'll join us in the Kraft Mac&Cheese bowl. If you
catch several lucky breaks.
The elephant in the room as Cougar Nation desperately tries to allege relevance
in the modern era of college football is that... wait for it...Major college football is defined by... and will continue to be defined
by the five power conferences... and every power conference in the country has
rejected BYU and its WACish history, backdoor NC trophy, individual awards,
worldwide fanbase, legacy, and popcorn popping stadium.None of it
matters to the power brokers of college football... and yet the Cougar Nation
continues to cling desperately to the fading illusion of BYU relevance.
Spokane UteCan't make it any simpler. Utah's chances of
playing in any bowl in 2013-14 are about the same as they were for 2012-13...
slim and none.
As usual, an article about BYU with no mention of Utah turned into the normal
back and forth from both sides making the same posts again and again. Couple of
follow up thoughts.@Naval Vet - I am not LDS but I do recognize that
the Y has a very large fan base (Mormons like to watch the Mormon school play)
which is attractive to the third tier bowls as I mentioned above. Not right,
not wrong but it is what it is. Still, the Y has a miracle season and goes to a
big time bowl or go to a third tier game (if they achieve 6 wins). @tators - pathetic to talk about total yards as if that matters. The
scoreboard has favored the team from SLC 8 of the last 11 times the team played.
No argument will change that.@WiscCoug - if you really went through over
500 posts on an article and also all the post n 8 others to look for comments
from Naval Vet, you should get a hobby.And finally, lets continue this
discussion after BYU posts 6 wins in a season that doesn't have more than 2
games from WAC or similar teams.
AZUTE & Naval Vet:NV-"I didn't rescind such respect until
AFTER it turned out that at 8-5, Oklahoma was grossly overrated rather than the
Top-5 program we all mistakenly made them out to be in the preseason."AZUTE-"Not unlike '84 PITT, which byu similarly struggled
against and which likewise finished the season, UNRANKED, but not before
enabling byu to erroneously vault up into the rankings, LITERALLY, out of
nowhere. Thank goodness this EPIC mistake will never again be allowed to be
repeated! LOL"What would OU have done with Sam Bradford the rest
of the year. Lets not forget BYU held him in check when he was in that game,
before blasting him out of it. If you're honest you will say they would
have been much better than 8-5, and BYU had to face Bradford, while many of the
teams OU lost to didn't. AZUTE: yep, that epic mistake will never be
allowed again, and 2008 was a great example. Utah sky rockets into the rankings
at #17 after beating a great Michigan team by a duece...oh wait, Michigan went
3-9 that year and had one of their worst seasons ever...sound familiar?
Ute fans seem to be too preoccupied with Cougar football. BYU football will be
just fine schedule and bowl wise. We can do independence and will eventually
thrive as an independent. That's the luxury of being a private university
with a unique mission. I could care less what the Utes do, or whether or not we
play them after this season. The BYU/Utah gamemight define Ute fans, and
all of their anti-BYU/anti-Mormon rhetoric, but the game doesn't define
Cougar fans. BYU football's main mission is to provide exposure primarily
for the LDS Church, and true Cougar fans embrace it.
Spokane Ute, who cares? Independent schools are the least tied-down programs.
BYU schedules many games with teams all over the country, while Utah is tied
down to playing the same teams throughout the season. And those pac teams
showing they are too tough for Utah, anyway, keeping Utah from tying down a bowl
game at all. Besides, outside of a handful of BCS bowls you have 70 options for
a bowl game that are all basically on the same tier. Maybe Utah will come play
BYU in an upcoming bowl game instead of running away from rivalry competition
over the next two years.
Well Howard S., if you have to read a quote 5 times to understand it, maybe that
says more about the reader/commenter than it does the guy who's worth
quoting in the article.
WiscougarfanCan't make it any simplier. Utah could play in one
of 7 differen't bowls this year; as the PAC 12 has many tie ins. They could
play a team from the BIG 12, MWC or BIG 10. BYU is locked into one bowl vs. PAC
12 #6. I have no idea what the Chick Fillet, Out Back or Gator Bowls have to do
with our conversation? I'm not sure why the sarcasm has to come
into play? A simple concept and a fact any way you spin it. Utah has a wide
variety of bowls and destinations that they could end up in; BYU has one. I also find it amussing that you have already penciled BYU in the Kraft
Fight Hunger Bowl. Check out your schedule; it's far from a given.
Re: Bleed Crimson @ 12:58 pmI am not flattering myself, just stating
fact. Also, I don't like gambling and point spreads is gambling. A team
wins heads up or it loses heads up. BTW, I made no mention of point spreads at
all, just that the Vegas boys favored BYU over Utah.You need to read
the rest of the comment about final rankings in the polls.Check out
those final rankings especially 2011 and 2012 when BYU went indy and the Utes
went PAC-thetic.BTW: Final rankings in the polls reflect the
totality of a team's wins and loses during the season. Once again, the
final BCS rankings include SOS.So, you know, Utah ranked #60 and BYU
ranked #55 the the BCS final rankings. BYU beat Utah State, Utah
State beat Utah, Utah beat BYU. So who was the best in 2012?Utah
State, BCS final ranking of #22. They earned it even though BYU beat them; they
were a better team overall last year. Utah trolls have to come to grips with
@RepresentBlueNice to see an honest post and BYU fan. I concur, and
yes Utah does need to start beating the upper tier of the PAC 12. They are
competing, but they need to turn the corner. Last season was dissapointing to
say the least. Utah beating BYU 3 in a row and 8 of 11 doesn't say much for
BYU, now does it? Both programs need to play better; let's not kid our
Naval Vet--"I didn't rescind such respect until AFTER it
turned out that at 8-5, Oklahoma was grossly overrated rather than the Top-5
program we all mistakenly made them out to be in the preseason."Not unlike '84 PITT, which byu similarly struggled against and which
likewise finished the season, UNRANKED, but not before enabling byu to
erroneously vault up into the rankings, LITERALLY, out of nowhere.Thank goodness this EPIC mistake will never again be allowed to be repeated!
@spokane uteNone of us care about the payout, we don't get any
of it and BYU runs an athletic department SURPLUS. We care far more about
destination and playing in a bowl game in America's armpit is hardly
something to brag about. Oh and utah was not in the alamo bowl last
time I checked, not that the alamo bowl is all that fantastic either, but nice
job trying to turn utah into something with "almost" and "one major
(lol) upset away" excuses.p.s. The "major upset" line
was the funniest one. No one buys that spin. LOL!
As a BYU (mostly) and a Utah (kinda) fan, I have to say that the hyperbole is
well, hyperbolic. Both BYU and Utah have "good" programs. Neither has
earned a BCS game of late. BYU never has. While BYU's defense is top notch,
the offense is not. Utah had a couple of awesome years and is now getting
hammered. Neither team is currently turning heads. That could all change in a
season. If BYU gets it's offensive stuff together, they could be terrific.
If Utah could resume its 2008 form, they will blitz through the Pac-12. The
trash talking between BYU and Utah right now is over which team is less
mediocre. But patience!! I believe that one or both of these teams will soon
move to top 10 status.
I still dream for miracles.I would like to see a bowl tie in that
would include ND, TCU, Baler, BYU, SMU,and all other Church based
schools.In the event, any of the said schools wouldbe invited
to a BCS Bowl invitation, that/thoseschools would be excused from this tie
in.The top two remaining teams would bein this Church Based
Bowl. The other eligible teams would be excused to accept
invitations to play in other bowls. Maybe a Provo Bowl one year or
anotheryear at ND or Bailor, TCU, SMU, or otherChurch Based School
could be our BowlLocation on alternating seasons.
I love it when u fans pound their chest and say.."we did do
something, we beat you 3 out of four times!"Wow!? Man, you sure
showed us. Oh, that put me in my place.That changes everything.
Gosh, you're a national powerhouse.I bet they talk about you
all the time when other teams are playing...nopeI bet they
bring u up in the national media...nopeI bet they talk about
you when they put together lists like I don't...quarterbacks,
National Champions, Dynasty teams, individual record holders, feel good stories
about talented kids from Africa taken in the first round, people on covers of
magazines, etc.oh wait, that's not u.At the end of
the day, wow, I gotta say, you've done, well, let me see, um, add none,
carry the one...nothing.oh, As and ASU and BSU grad a
well, I like it when you tell BYU you own them.I guess since you
will always own BYU, we will always own you. Good logic.
Mediocre at best bowl tie-ins are one of the drawbacks of independence. Any
educated Cougar fan understands this, but most that I know are willing to accept
this trade-off in order to have the opportunity to play teams from all over the
country and have their games carried by ESPN and rebroadcast the same day on
BYUtv, something they did not have in the MWC. Yes, Utah is in a better
situation playing in a power conference with far superior bowl game
opportunities, but until they actually demonstrate they are capable of competing
in a power conference their fans don't have much to pound their chests
about other than beating their supposedly "former" rival 3 out of the
last 4 years.
"CO UtePARKER, COWow, I get to make a post before
the normal barrage of Y vs. U banter begins.BYU has a large national
following and is a good draw for most of the bowl games. They should have no
problem locking into games for the future, assuming they can win enough games to
be eligible with an improved schedule. On the other hand, not belonging to a
conference is going to relegate them to either a miracle season leading to a BCS
type bowl or a third tier game. The big conferences will have ties to all
the second tier games (beyond what are now BCS games)once the new system shakes
out."This could not be more accurate though I actually disagree
on the miracle season scenario. Part of the job of the selection committee is
to ensure only teams within current BCS conferences participate in any such bowl
games / playoff games...in order to keep the funds concentrated.
@Elmer Fudd:What I'm trying to prove is that Utah has not been
nearly so dominant over BYU these past few years as many of your fellow trolls
are trying to people believe. Case in point, in last year's game BYU
had 312 total yards to Utah's 245. BYU had 25 first downs to Utah's
14. The only reason for Utah's win was fewer turnovers, which is often just
a matter of good or bad bounce of the ball. There was certainly no dominance by
Utah when they won by 3 points. And there was a similar story in 2010 when Utah
won by only 1 point. The other point I'm trying to make for
those people having a hard time understanding is that these win streaks come and
go. Before Utah's current 3 game streak, BYU won 3 of the previous 4 games.
It goes back and forth. There really has been no dominance either way in the
past decade or so. The last real dominance was between 1972 and 1992 when BYU
won 19 of 21 games against Utah. And yes, I know... that's now ancient
history... just like Utah's BCS bowl wins.
RE: Spokane Ute"My point is that Utah can play in the Sun,
Alamo, Holiday, or Rose Bowl. All of these destinations are an impossibility for
BYU... Playing as an independent provides one option: fight hunger bowl.
Understand?" I think I understand what you're saying...
Utah, despite playing in a "power conference" can never play in the
capital one, chick-fil-A, outback, gator, or cotton bowls. That is because those
bowls have tie-ins to other conferences. Meanwhile, BYU can't play in the
games tied to the PAC12. Is that right? Good think I got a PhD, that was a
little tricky. Unfortunately for you and the other trolls, BYU has
had options for playing in various bowls, which is why they have played in
different bowls each of the last few years. The difference is that as an
independent they have to negotiate bowl contracts before the season, not after
(hence this article). So while BYU will likely play in San Fran
this postseason, Utah will be lucky if they make it to New Mexico.
RE: Naval Vet"Likely. I certainly gave your "Band of
Bunglers" credit for beating Oklahoma back in 2009, even though that win was
JUST BARELY, and the lead wasn't taken in that game until AFTER you all
knocked Bradford out of the game, leaving the Sooners with a true freshman under
center. I gave you all credit because despite all that, you DID win the game,
and it WAS a virtual Home game for Oklahoma."Really??! I'd
love to see where you gave BYU credit for anything positive, I've never
seen a troll do such a thing but it would be cool. Oddly, I scrolled through
the 577 comments for the article following the BYU/OU game (BYU football: Blue
crush — Cougars send BCS message with stunning win) and there were no
comments by Naval Vet. Neither were there any on the other eight articles
written about the game that weekend. You probably just forgot that you gave
credit to BYU in your mind but never actually wrote it down.
If the Y could ever get back to winning again ..against the BIG teams.. the bowl
situation would take care of itself. When was the last BIG game the Y won? Right
now BYU is in College Football waste land and the only way out is to win. To win
the Y needs a big time QB with a BIG arm and they don't have that so ...
@ Tators"Utah's win streak is 3, not 4 over BYU, as you
wrote. And 2 of those 3 wins were by a combined total of only 4 points and
decided in the last minute of the game. Also, BYU generated more offense than
Utah in both of those 2 games"2 of BYU's last 3 wins over
Utah were by a combine total of 5 points and Utah had more total offense than
BYU in those games. What are you trying to prove? Sometimes teams win with
generating less offense. As long as a team has more points at the end of the
game, they win! See how easy that is? That's why Utah dominates the rivalry
in recent years and historically!
The righteous indignation of some BYU fans on this web site targeted toward Utah
fans is hilarious. Have any of you guys read any given DesNews article on the
Utes? There are generally as many BYU fans taking pot shots at Utah as there
are Ute fans defending their program. It goes both ways.
@ PhantombladeYou don't have to worry about going to Elpaso,
San Antonio or Pasadena. It's San Diego or no where.So if a
Utah fan gives there opinion on BYU's bowl situation, they are
automatically a Hater? No, just a sports fan explaining the difference between a
PAC 12 team's bowl options, and an Independent. No hate, just telling it
like it is.
WisconsinCougMy point is that Utah can play in the Sun, Alamo,
Holiday, or Rose Bowl. All of these destinations are an impossibility for BYU. I
guess the Rose is possible, but extremely remote. Pretty simple concept;
belonging to a power conference provides these options (better bowls, better
opponents, better pay out). Playing as an independent provides one option: fight
hunger bowl. Understand?PhantombladeI watch the bowls on
TV. I would prefer to watch Utah play a power conference opponent with a better
pay out, then a non power conference opponent is San Fran, or Vegas. However, if
you base it on location alone, so be it. I find it hard to believe that BYU
wouldn't love to have Utah's post season options. I will take the PAC
12 tie ins, to the Kraft Macaroni and Cheese bowl tie in/lock; any day of the
@ WA_Alum&Dad"I haven't stopped to count it up for this
article, but once again it seems like half the comments posted are from BYU
haters. I don't think I've ever commented on a Utah story that
didn't have an explicit BYU tie-in. You ute fans need to get a life. Is all
that's left for you now that your dreams came true and you are in a power
conference is to comment on a team that you profess not to care about? Who is
"frantic and emotional?" Sheesh"Why don't you try
and read and comment on Utah only articles. You'll be surprised how many
Utah-haters you'll find on those articles! Sorry, but hating goes both ways
not just Utah fans hating BYU!
Interesting to see all the Utah fans obsessing over BYU's bowl chances.Then again, considering Utah is predicted to miss a bowl again this year
it's not surprising they'd rather talk about BYU. Or USU. Or any
other team that is going to a bowl.
To Redblood:FYI: Utah's win streak is 3, not 4 over BYU, as you
wrote. And 2 of those 3 wins were by a combined total of only 4 points and
decided in the last minute of the game. Also, BYU generated more offense than
Utah in both of those 2 games. And by the way, the current streak
ended last year. This September will confirm it. Utah seems to be so unconfident
about being able to continue it's winning ways against BYU that they are
dropping them from their schedule after this year. And considering that Utah
hasn't lately been able to generate enough wins to go bowling, you'd
think they would go out their way to keep anyone on their schedule they felt
they could beat. And perhaps they have.
giantfan:"...if BYU manages to pull out 8-10 wins this year,
playing a much improved schedule, will you give them any credit?"Likely. I certainly gave your "Band of Bunglers" credit for beating
Oklahoma back in 2009, even though that win was JUST BARELY, and the lead
wasn't taken in that game until AFTER you all knocked Bradford out of the
game, leaving the Sooners with a true freshman under center. I gave you all
credit because despite all that, you DID win the game, and it WAS a virtual Home
game for Oklahoma.I didn't rescind such respect until AFTER it
turned out that at 8-5, Oklahoma was grossly overrated rather than the Top-5
program we all mistakenly made them out to be in the preseason.
giantfan:"Your continued use of the term Indy-WACers is so
tired...How many WAC teams does BYU play in 2013? And if BYU manages to pull out
8-10 wins this year, playing a much improved schedule, will you give them any
credit?"My continued use of the term Indy-WACers DOES irritate
the fans that have been desperately trying to spin and whitewash their knee-jerk
reaction of leaving the most competitive non-AQ conference in the country once
realizing that no elite conference wanted them. That said, you're
"legacy" and "brand" were not built on playing the kind of
schedule we'll be seeing in the Fall, and neither had you ever seen a
schedule even REMOTELY like that in the history of cougar football. It had been
built on beating all the weakest teams......in the WAC.So until you actually "play" (not "schedule") a competitive
schedule, don't expect me to be impressed with your recent 10- and 8-win
seasons. Those seasons were WACish. So your TEAM is WACish.
I haven't stopped to count it up for this article, but once again it seems
like half the comments posted are from BYU haters. I don't think I've
ever commented on a Utah story that didn't have an explicit BYU tie-in.
You ute fans need to get a life. Is all that's left for you now that your
dreams came true and you are in a power conference is to comment on a team that
you profess not to care about? Who is "frantic and emotional?" Sheesh.
@ MacNasty"Yes, it is something. It is rather embarrassing. This
year things will change; at least the odds makers in Vegas think so (I
don't bet, but those guys make their tawdry living on it)"If I'm not mistaken; Hasn't BYU been favored to win the last few
years against Utah going into the rival game according to Vegas? Somehow Utah
always comes out on top! Don't flatter yourself over what Vegas thinks.
Utah has had BYU's number for the last decade! Point spreads change week to
week as the season kicks off! Nobody knows for sure what kind of team Utah and
BYU will have this year until they play a game or two. That's why preseason
Vegas odds are worthless!
CougFaninTX:I stand corrected. Sort of. I DID mention that they
played the game on SMU's campus, so the whole Ft. Worth vs. Dallas was an
inadvertence. It wasn't a "made up" fact. It was a misstatement.
Do you know the difference?A "made up fact" would be for
someone to say something like "I was there, and yes, 75% were BYU fans."
Because the only thing that is "known" about the 2011 Armed Forces Bowl
was that it wasn't a "sold out" bowl game, and that only 30K fans
were recorded to have passed thru the turnstiles. If the game wasn't sold
out, what kept the Indy-WACey fans from purchasing tickets? Don't forget
that unsold ticket allotments are available to the public well before game
day.When the Indy-WACers played TCU at Jerry's World, there
were only 50K recorded in attendance. But you're insisting that the
Indy-WACers' "easily" comprised of 60% of the fans in a game
located 15-mi. west of the stadium? That's the sort of frantic and
emotional made up facts I was talking about.
I'd like to know if anyone has seen any articles concerning Utah going to a
future bowl game... any bowl game at all, even lower tier? No... I didn't
think so. Neither have I.The only relevant talk I've recently
heard concerning Utah and bowl games is if they will ever again qualify for one.
Perhaps joining the PAC10 was getting in a little over it's head.As such, it's little wonder there are so many Ute "fans"
commenting on a BYU-Bowl game article. There is nowhere similar for them to go.
It's rather sad that if you can't find any good news about yourself,
you instead try to demean the good that someone else has. Hence, the negative
comments from Utah fans concerning this article.
@ giantfanGreat comments. I can't speak for Naval but applaud
your realistic approach to this season. This year, in my opinion, really is one
of the first solid schedules BYU has had for quite some time. The 8-11 wins
they have enjoyed in recent years have been WAY over hyped and Bronco has
received far too much credit for those records. As BYU moves into schedules
that are noteworthy, the writing will be on the wall relative to how many wins
you can now pull off. As I mentioned in a recent post, I can personally live
with occasional down years. No doubt it was embarrassing to not reach bowl
eligibility last year. That doesn't happen often with the Utes so I can
live with it for a season. Bronco, and lately, Whittingham, have shown they
generally struggle in the big games. This will absolutely catch up to both of
them if things don't change. I'm not sure if there won't be
moaning in Provo should the Cougars lose to Utah this year and make it five
straight losses to their rival up north. Say what you want - that's an
important game.Good luck in 2013!
Naval,Your continued use of the term Indy-WACers is so tired.
What's unfortunate is that sometimes your comments are relevant and
actually deserve merit but you're so obviously more interested in demeaning
and belittling than adding any real value to the conversation. What's been said many times before is that the WAC provided some much
needed scheduling help the first couple years of BYU's football
independence, which BYU is very grateful for. I believe the arrangement was of
mutual benefit for the WAC schools that opened up their schedules. Two questions
for you: How many WAC teams does BYU play in 2013? And if BYU manages to pull
out 8-10 wins this year, playing a much improved schedule, will you give them
any credit? None of us here will be holding our breaths. I, for one,
am not predicting an 8-10 or more win season but it's certainly possible.
My point is, your blinding hatred for BYU precludes you from seeing anything
objectively having to do with BYU. You try and hide that fact by sounding
logical but who here will buy it based on your track record?
Spokane UteFrankly, as a fan, I couldn't care less what a
particular bowl pays out.I'm far more interested in whether the
bowl is played in an interesting location with other entertainment options in
addition to the bowl.San Diego, Las Vegas, Orlando, and this year,
San Francisco (if BYU doesn't have an unlikely 11- or 12-win season), are
among the cities our family has enjoyed visiting even without a football game to
attend.El Paso, on the other hand, is not a place I would even
remotely be interested in taking my family, especially for New Year's
RE: Spokane UteSo your response to my earlier post is that BYU
can't play in a bowl in San Antonio that Utah didn't make it to two
Re: RedBlood @ 11:35 am"I can tell you one thing we've done
in the last five years...Beat BYU 4 of the last 5 yearsIs that something?"Yes, it is something. It is rather
embarrassing. This year things will change; at least the odds makers in Vegas
think so (I don't bet, but those guys make their tawdry living on it).However, in the majority of those years I believe BYU was ranked higher
in the final polls than Utah, which polls are better indicators of a team's
overall performance than just one game. BTW, the poll mentioned include the
final BCS rankings (which include SOS rendering any arguments about BYU's
weak SOS irrelevant).Have a nice day.
@WisconsinCougI'm sure that you are aware Utah played in the
Sun Bowl 2 years ago, and that they were a major upset (to Colorado) away from
playing in the Alamo Bowl don't you? Both bowl have a higher payout then
any of the bowls you mention; and both are un-touchable by BYU.
@Naval Vet - "Play in Texas? Count on 20K - 30K" The 2011 Armed Forces
Bowl -- played in Ft. Worth, TX -- only drew 30K total fans."Talk about made up facts. BYU played Tulsa at SMU stadium which only holds
32,000. TCU was under construction. I was there, and yes, 75% were BYU fans.
I'm sure BYU could have sold 30k, but some of the tickets had to go to
Tulsa.When BYU played TCU in Jerry World, BYU easily had 30k. When
BYU played Oklahoma in Jerry World, BYU easily had 30k.
RE: TrollsYour point of BYU going to the same Kraft fight hunger
bowl whether they are a six win or an eleven win team is pointless. Why?
Because it is highly unlikely BYU will win more than eight games this season
against such a difficult schedule. So having a guaranteed bowl for an
independent team is nice. And it's not a bad bowl... it's in San
Fransisco and teams who have played there recently include Virginia Tech, Boston
College, Utah, and Florida Sate. They payout isn't great but there are
worse things in the world. What I don't get is why this is so
important to y'all. If Utah wins six games (highly unlikely) then there is
a chance they will play in the New Mexico Bowl or if they are lucky (maybe with
seven or eight wins) the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl. Barring a miracle (winning
eight or more games) Utah will be going to a "lower" bowl than BYU.
Really, at this point the best case scenario for the Utes is that they'll
join the cougars in San Fransisco, hoping for some redemption for their
September loss to the Y.
@STuFOOI can tell you one thing we've done in the last five
years...Beat BYU 4 of the last 5 yearsIs that something?
I am so grateful that u fans come to these boards and share their infinite
wisdom. They are so smart! Wow, I mean...with all that
knowledge...they must have a really good team.with all
that experience...they must be called on by their AD all the time to
structure their schedule.with all that knowledge...they
must be working for ESPN giving expert advice to commentators.Wait,
what?the u is irreverent? they didn't go bowling last year?
they are cellar dwellers in the pac 11=1?That's
surprising...you'd think they had done something the last five
BYU will get much more exposure and therefore attract better recruits. The MWC
would have kept them in obscurity. Independence will allow them to step up to
the next level.Utah will have a competitive year this year and will soon have a
great year and win the PAC 12. Both schools are in better positions than before
despite the relatively mediocre years for both last year. Both teams have good
defensive coaches but need offenses this year. Change will pay off over time.
Navel lint,"Actually, what makes the Indy-WACers so intriguing
is that their fanbase is not gigantic, but their own opinions of themselves
IS"So what you are saying is that when a BYU fan expresses their
opinion on a BYU article, they are arrogant, self-serving and narcissistic...So when a u fan / BYU hater, like your self, expresses their opinion, on
a BYU article, which is highly critical, never objective, and always with
malice....What would you call that?Talk about having a
high opinion of yourself. Good thing you can point out that mote in their eye
with the BEAM in yours.
Re: MyPerspective @ 9:16 amFirst off, there are only 7 billion
people of the planet. If you include the spirit world, your 11 billion might be
close to accurate. LOLBYU's fan base at last count is 201.7%
greater than the Utah's fan base (BYU = 709,864, Utah = 351,7939).Those are the numbers and no mildly glib or weak sarcastic statements will
change them.Have a great day.
Ridiculous comments.I am amazed at how much blue kool aid,
personally mixed by Mr. Holmoe has been drunk by Cougar fans. Have any of you
Cougar fans really stepped back to read your comments? Perhaps the majority of
Cougar fans really are satisfied and / or content to consistently play in lower
tier bowl games, all in the name of "exposure". If you really think
playing in crappy bowl games is good exposure for your university, and you are
satisfied that is the goal of your athletic director, then more power to you. I
shake my head thinking what a sad state that would be to be in, i.e.
rationalizing mediocrity. I have said this a thousand times and cougar fans
just don't seem to get it - IT IS FAR BETTER FOR YOUR FOOTBALL PROGRAM TO
HAVE AVERAGE SEASONS, INTERSPERSED WITH MAJOR, BCS EXPOSURE, THAN IT IS FOR YOU
TO WIN 10-11 GAMES VERSUS CRAP SCHEDULES AND GET SUBSEQUENT 'EXPOSURE'
IN CRAP BOWL GAMES. You really need to wake up and demand from your
AD that your genuine goal is national exposure through QUALITY wins and trips to
the playoff system. Trust me, I have experienced this!
statman:"The most interesting thing about BYU's fan base to
Bowls and TV people is that it is spread all across the country. Play a game in
the State of California? BYU will bring 40K..."It doesn't
look that way. The entire recorded attendance at the 2012 Poinsettia Bowl --
played in San Diego, CA -- was only 35K."Play in Texas? Count on
20K - 30K"The 2011 Armed Forces Bowl -- played in Ft. Worth, TX
-- only drew 30K total fans. Surely you couldn't be suggesting that the
ENTIRE stadium's attendees were 100% Indy-WACers. Especially not since
Tulsa is nearly 75% closer to SMU's campus than the Y. Better change that
to "made up stats man"?"That's what makes BYU so
intriguing. There [sic] fanbase is not gigantic, but it's spread around the
country like very few teams."Actually, what makes the
Indy-WACers so intriguing is that their fanbase is not gigantic, but their own
opinions of themselves IS. Hence all the frantic and emotional exaggerations of
If its exposure, lets go big! Each year, Holmoe can land us in a mid-December
bowl, and then in a second early January bowl. One on each coast--we could fill
them up, double the pay-check and satisfy double the fans.
BYU has a pretty nice set up. After their first loss they are out of the
national bowls, and fans can make bowl travel plans in September.Well... they can make plans if they feel pretty confident about getting to
6-6. That's been pretty much assured with the weak start-up schedule. If
BYU gets a BCS-like schedule, fans will have to wait longer to lock in those
bowl travel plans.
statman"Play a game in the State of California? BYU will bring
40K if they're slotted that many tickets - better than virtually any out of
state PAC-12 team, except at this point, maybe for Oregon. Play in Texas? Count
on 20K - 30K if you can get them tickets. ND? Full of as many BYU fans could get
tickets. Georga Tech? Same. Virginia will be the same this year - count on 20K
plus. Wisconsin? Same." Really? The stadium at the San Jose
game last year was half empty and it only holds 15,000. Where were the byu
fans? You people type this stuff up or read a comment from someone else and
believe every word of it. Go cougars!
to SLC BYU Fan & the rest of cougar nation;Is it slowly starting
to dawn on you that byu needs to win 10 games to qualify for the same level of
bowl that a 6 or 7 win Utah team would.
CO Ute:"BYU has a large national following and is a good draw
for most of the bowl games. They should have no problem locking into games for
the future."That should be MOSTLY true....in that they
won't be left out of the postseason with 6-wins. But they WILL be left out
of any bowl game of significance.I would suspect the Indy-WACers
would align themselves with one of the following postseason destinations:
Famous Idaho Potato, Poinsettia, Armed Forces, Hawai'i, New Mexico, and/or
"new bowl TBD". All are in the West, and none threatening to break the
$850K glass ceiling payout our unfortunate little brothers are trapped under.That said, here a few other more long-shots: New Orleans, Beef
'O' Brady, GoDaddy, Little Caesars, Military, Fight Hunger, Las Vegas,
and Heart of Texas. The New Orleans, Beef 'O' Brady, GoDaddy,
Military, and Little Caesars are substantially outside their footprint, and the
Fight Hunger, Las Vegas, and Heart of Texas pay out too much money for the bowl
organizers, who would most likely rather attract a team from one of the 5 power
conferences.I guess we'll see.
@statmanA massive fanbase and the Cougars are still left to wait for
the left-overs after the power conerences make their deals.Maybe
that massive fanbase isn't all it's cracked up to be.
@BlutoAnd what would those choices be? Whether they win 6; or 10/11
games this year, they will end up in the same bowl: Kraft fight Hunger. It may
not be fair; but it's reality!
The most interesting thing about BYU's fan base to Bowls and TV people is
that it is spread all across the country. Play a game in the State of
California? BYU will bring 40K if they're slotted that many tickets -
better than virtually any out of state PAC-12 team, except at this point, maybe
for Oregon. Play in Texas? Count on 20K - 30K if you can get them tickets. ND?
Full of as many BYU fans could get tickets. Georga Tech? Same. Virginia will
be the same this year - count on 20K plus. Wisconsin? Same. There are VERY
few teams that have that draw anywhere in the country. That's what makes
BYU so intriguing. There fanbase is not gigantic, but it's spread around
the country like very few teams, and the fans are happy to drive 5 or 6 hours to
get to a game.
We have enough clout to choose any bowl we want. With our $6M to $8M per game
payout from ESPN, great bowl records and huge fan basses that travel, every bowl
will want us. We can pick any of them. We go to Rose bowl before the 1 in Pac
MacNasty"Did you know that BYU's fan base ranks #43 out of 120
FBS college teams? Oregeon ranks #45 and Stanford ranks #69. Utah ranks #67 and
Utah State ranks #119."That's impossible. How could byu be
ranked all the way down at #43 when they have 11 Billion fans?SLC
BYU Fan"But then again isn't it the "fairness doctrine to
Utah State" that has landed BYU in the league alignment mess that it find
itself in?" Yes, that's exactly what it is...the fault of someone
else. Always is when it comes to byu's misfortunes.
Hey Howard S and all other Ute "fans" commenting on this article:Since Utah joined the PAC, I hear it is in negotiations to tie into a
new bowl.The bowl is called the "Welcome Doormat" bowl.
Possible sites include Pierre, South Dakota, Helena, Montana, or Rio Lindo,
California.Good news for you provided your team will ever hit .500
again.Have a great day.
As an Independent, BYU is two for two in bowl game invitations.As a
bottom of the PACer, Utah is one for two in bowl game invitations.The so-called "left-overs", as in fun trips to San Diego and San
Francisco > the couch potato bowl...just sayin'
@Bluto"At least BYU has a bit of a choice in the matter, instead
of having it slotted in for them."**********Funny...
BYU's options are indeed slotted in for them.It's called
Have to read Holmoe quotes 2-3 times to make sense of them.The
bottom line appears to be that BYU will wait for the power conferences to make
their deals and they hope to scoop up the left-overs.
CougFaninTXA tiered bowl tie-in for the benefit of BYU makes no
sense for the Big12 or any of the power conferences.Why would any
power conference allow their 5th team to be displaced by a 11 win mid-major indy
like BYU... they wouldn't.Relationships with power conferences
are far too valuable to the Holiday Bowl and other 2nd tier bowls to even
consider a contingent tie-in for BYU.There a reason that only the
BYU faithful mention the tiered tie-in option... because it only makes sense
@Who am...Every school takes what they can get.....Hello?At
least BYU has a bit of a choice in the matter, instead of having it slotted in
for them.Gone are the, 5 years in a row in Vegas, for BYU.And Utah
can certainly forget about a Rose Bowl...see Arizona.Remember with BYU,
it's not about the money (they have plenty) it's about Exposure, extra
practice and BYU's National fan-base..
@Pragmatic:I never thought of your question as a real
head-scratcher. The lower-tier bowls exist to make money. Cheddar. Bread. Gravy.
Shekels. Currency. Cabbage. Clams. Dinero. Can you imagine? I know, I know . .
this is a stunning revelation.I'm probably no more excited
about "The Kwik-e-Mart Bowl brought to you by Code Red for Men" than you
are, but these types of bowls are making money for someone or they wouldn't
keep playing them. No skin off my nose.
RE: Silent LurkerCottonwood Heights, UTMildred in Fillmore
(Salt Lake City, UT) First notice the city SLC not fillmore. Second, is a Utah
fan make interesting and sometime funny remarks about BYU football and their
fans. Third, you should of left off Oregon and Stanford both with
small fan bases. Finally "Schools earn their way into BCS level games,
something BYU has yet to acomplish. " that is not true Most schools did not
earn their way to BCS conference it had more to do with location.
I know it's difficult with the conference tie-ins, but I would love it if
BYU could somehow find a way to lock in a two tiered tie-in. Meaning, if we win
6 - 9 games, we go to a Poinsettia type bowl, but if we win 10 or 11 we go to a
Holiday type bowl. I know the Holiday bowl is not as happy getting the #5 team
from the Big12, now that it's only a ten team conference as it was when it
was a 12 team conference.
Love the quote of Mr. Holmoe, "As an independent....." What did he say?
Great doublespeak! Some 67 words to say.... in effect, BYU will take anything
it can get!
@bluto - I agree completely. BYU builds in an out if they make a Playoff game.
Else they just spread the BYU brand to the rest of the country and show it off.
It's pure genius, build the brand on their own terms. BYU has built the
mechanism to fit in with the power schools and they've done it on their
terms. Other schools grovel to join a major conference and usually don't
do very well. So good for BYU, and we welcome exposure and bowl games!
Who cares?BYU will be bowling and Utah won't.BYU goes
11-1, 12-0 they're in a big bowl.Otherwise, they mix it up with nice
destinations for BYU's fans.Outside of the 4 team playoffs, it's
all window dressing anyway.Seriously, El Paso or Boise versus
Vegas,Phoenix, LA, Frisco or San Diego?It's all good.
Dear Pragmatic,I can respond to your post in one word: exposure. And that
is pragmatic!Sorry, that was more than one word.
Um Silent Lurker,Did you know that BYU's fan base ranks #43 out
of 120 FBS college teams? Oregeon ranks #45 and Stanford ranks #69. Utah ranks
#67 and Utah State ranks #119.In fact, BYU's fan base is larger
than those of eight PAC 12 teams, and 77 FBS schools in general. BYU's fan
base barely missed the top 1/3 by only a mere 0.025.Source: New York
Times Sept. 19, 2011, "The Geography of College Football Fans (and
Realignment Chaos), by Nate Silver.
The second tier bowls are a joke. Why in heavens they even exist really escapes
any intelligence other than to have a reason for a football team to have a free
@mildredMichigan, USC, Alabama, Oklahoma, Ohio State, UCLA, Oregon, LSU,
Texas, Nebraska, ND, Stanford, and others all have larger fan bases than BYU.
Schools earn their way into BCS level games, something BYU has yet to acomplish.
Mildred you really need to get out of Fillmore more often.
BYU will not get a lock into any upper tier bowls but this shouldn't be too
disappointing, it's been a decade since any Utah team went to a upper tier
bowl that wasn't a BCS bowl. BYU has just as much access to the BCS bowls
as almost any other team (they have to be a zero or possibly one loss team) so I
say go ahead and lock in the lower tier bowls that are either regional (near
Utah) or great vacation destinations.
Sadly BYU will be unable to secure much beyond second tier level bowls so long
as they stay independent. Cougar fans better get used to Poinsetta Bowl, Kraft
Fight Hunger or Boise Famous Potato Bowl bid invites that aren't any better
than any bowl Utah State can be invited to. But then again isn't it the
"fairness doctrine to Utah State" that has landed BYU in the league
alignment mess that it find itself in?
Wow, I get to make a post before the normal barrage of Y vs. U banter begins.BYU has a large national following and is a good draw for most of the bowl
games. They should have no problem locking into games for the future, assuming
they can win enough games to be eligible with an improved schedule. On the
other hand, not belonging to a conference is going to relegate them to either a
miracle season leading to a BCS type bowl or a third tier game. The big
conferences will have ties to all the second tier games (beyond what are now BCS
games)once the new system shakes out.
We deserve to be in a Major (currently called BCS bowl) game every year due to
our Legacy football reputation among the college football elite. No one has as
many fans nationally and internationally as we do and our TV ratings in bowl
games proves it.