USA Rugby: 'What BYU won ... was a mythical championship'

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  • TomClayman San Francisco, CA
    May 20, 2013 8:44 p.m.

    Where did the attendance figure of 300 come from?

  • KuKaKaHa provo, UT
    May 20, 2013 6:41 p.m.

    Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the stadium, the USA Rugby O-nion's fearless leader of collegiate rugby strikes, AGAIN!!!

    Why NC?

    The upside: NC is a great location, with good food, and wonderful people.
    The downside: Um... Did anyone check to see if anyone in NC was interested in attending a rugby match?

    Here's the math, as it relates to the 320 in attendance at Nationals:

    15 players on the field, per team = 30
    Teams typically fly 30 players, including sub's = add 30
    Running Total = 60 players

    Average number of family members attending, per player = 2
    Total family attending (2 x 60) = 120
    Running Total = 180

    Average number of Alumni attending = 40
    40 x 2 Institutions = 80
    Grand Total = 260

    320 in attendance - 260 = 60
    NC Locals attending = 60

  • Jake2010 bountiful, ut
    May 19, 2013 10:30 p.m.

    Well said IRS Agent.... Perhaps he will use the temporary absence of Utah from competitions as reasoning behind such nefarious rubbish.... Blue Coug, Every champion since the corruption of the BCS inception has been mythical... At least in any season where more than 1 undefeated team remained... And I don't know about crowning a champion when the competition came from the same conference with the head to head for the season being a split... Of course this year it was nice as it was a S W E E P ! ! !One team even had their championship taken away due to cheating.... Yet, no award to the 'loser' to make that season have a champion.... I think the playoff system is closer than in a long long time... But if two teams from the same conference ever meet up in it, it will instantaneously lose all credibility and be no remedy at all. :) In the end, in college football... ROLL TIDE!

  • KuKaKaHa provo, UT
    May 19, 2013 7:31 p.m.

    Because past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior, I suggest that it's time for Cortez-- and his 'Cowboy cronies’ in the USA Rugby O-nion Field-- to dismount from their trusty steeds. Let’s leave these old horses, behind. Like rugby rules and regulations that were adjusted to speed up the game (e.g lifting in the line-out), the USA Rugby O-nion needs to adjust; put the old horses out to pasture; replace them with new Chevy trucks; and quickly move into the future. This will be difficult to do, and will take considerable time and resources. Gratefully, while we wait, the new Chevy’s can help carry away the large quantities of “Steer Manure” the O-nion Field continues to produce.
    Until then, this strain of “O-nion” will always make me cry!!!!!!!!

  • KuKaKaHa provo, UT
    May 19, 2013 7:28 p.m.

    Unfortunately, this M.O. of the leading Collegiate O-nion Exec., is typical. Much like him, the teams he coached in Wyoming were always FULL-- as in, FULL of bluster prior to the game; FULL of 'bull' during the game; and FULL of excuses because of the constant losing, they became accustomed to, when playing solid, well trained rugby teams. (I guess, if you can't beat 'em on the field, you gotta beat 'em with O-nion policies, right?)

    Three "chairs" (purposely misspelled) to the USA Rugby O-nion. Why? For selecting a leader for collegiate rugby, who doesn't understand 'player development', but has healthy respect for—and membership in—the Good-Ol'- Boy O-nion Field network. (Way to grow the program, USA Rugby O-nion! We all wanna follow you because we know you can deliver... Not!!! And, we all wanna 'click' on your Homepage, and donate more resources so we can enjoy more of the fantastic leadership you provide… bahahahahahahaha…)

  • KuKaKaHa provo, UT
    May 19, 2013 7:27 p.m.

    Also, we cannot forget the all important 'marketing' and 'spin doctoring' that O-nion Exec’s need to provide for their Collegiate National Championship. Unfortunately, upon closer examination, the "spin" is not about advertising or building collegiate rugby, nationally. Instead, it is clearly an effort to excuse past ineffectiveness, while also passing-the-buck for poor planning, useless communication, and the implementation of ridiculous policies that restrict the growth of USA collegiate rugby.

    As the most recent, example of the leadership style of the O-nion's Collegiate Exec., review the way Cortez treated those involved in the D-II Championships. And, see how many folks attended the National Finals

  • KuKaKaHa provo, UT
    May 19, 2013 7:22 p.m.

    I wonder if the O-nion understands that its members will follow and support them, through Thick-and-Thin. However, they also reserve the right to NOT follow. This is especially true, when "Thick" describes the thickheaded and unable-to-be-advised O-nion Exec’s ability to lead, and "Thin", describes the O-nions ability to manage the future of USA Rugby. The Exec’s from the O-nion Field (Headquarters) have drawn too much salary for such poor leadership, and are overpaid for the limited perspective they provide about the future of collegiate rugby. How sad, especially when you consider that college programs actually contribute and financially assist these O-nion Exec’s. Way to take care of yourselves, O-nion Exec’s!!! (sarc.)… (Cont'd)

  • KuKaKaHa provo, UT
    May 19, 2013 7:18 p.m.

    Of Championship, Cortezes Cowboys, Control, Chevy Trucks, and O-nions that Make Me Cry.

    It's sad when the USA Rugby O-nion can't even retain, top college teams (e.g. Cal and BYU) for their own, Collegiate National Championship. Even sadder, that the lead O-nion Exec. over collegiate programs talk ‘smack’ in the media, about O-nion members. Well done Rugby O-nion (Not!!!)… Way to help members of the O-nion (sarc.)… Way to build the confidence of O-nion members in your O-nion (...still sarc.)... and, way to gain the trust and respect of O-nion members (... Yes, still sarc.)... (cont'd)

  • runnerguy50 Virginia Beach, Va
    May 19, 2013 7:04 p.m.

    A bit more news on the so called "championship " put on by USAR. Guess how many folks turned out for Cortez's championship match ? According Gainline US rugby blog, 350 people tops showed in Greensboro NC. 350 tops !. Then because of rain there were less then 100 people in the stands by the end of the match. Less then 100 people ? Are you serious !!!

    USAR received a $250,000 grant from International Rugby for college championships and this is what they got from the investment?
    USAR should apologize to the Varsity Cup members and promply turn over the college playoffs to the leaders of the Varsity Cup.

    Again USAR put on their championship with funding from IRB and attendance was 350 people. And USAR has the nerve to question the Varsity Cup ?

    Long live the Varsity Cup !!!!!!!

  • royalblue Alpine, UT
    May 19, 2013 4:50 p.m.


    "BYU would have been crushed by any of the teams that finished in the top ten that year."

    Easy to say, IMPOSSIBLE to prove, but there's this:

    14 September 1985

    1984 #1 BYU 31
    1984 #2 Wash 3

    Finishing 1984 on a 24-game winning streak with back-to-back Top 7 finishes was definitely a superb accomplishment, worthy of being crowned Consensus 1984 National Champion by these organizations:

    AP Sportswriters Poll
    Football Writers Association of America
    National Football Foundation
    USA Today/CNN
    United Press International Coaches Poll

    The exact same national organizations (AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, and UPI) that selected all of these major college football national champions:

    1989 Miami
    1988 Notre Dame
    1987 Miami
    1986 Penn St.
    1985 Oklahoma
    1984 Brigham Young
    1983 Miami
    1982 Penn St.

    Despite the jealous whining of the kids on the hill, BYU's 1984 major college football national championship was just as legitimate as any of the above-mentioned national champions.

  • just-a-fan Bountiful, UT
    May 19, 2013 11:33 a.m.

    Not real smart in promoting the sport of rugby when downplaying the hard work of BYU and Cal.

  • The Watch Dog tumwater, WA
    May 19, 2013 7:17 a.m.

    Well, then maybe they should just settle it with a Varsity Cup/USA Rugby D1-A NC winner become the "World Champion". If they're gonna fight about it just settle it on the playing field. That's how all three of our major professional sports settled it, probably plenty of others too, like boxing. That's what makes competitive sports exciting

  • TLH South Jordan, UT
    May 18, 2013 11:01 p.m.

    I don't think you need to pile on Cortez. He's just the messenger, and you don't shoot them. He wasn't even in the position he's in now when the eligibility rules were changed by all of the collegiate members of USA Rugby. To me, that says the other schools thought BYU had an advantage. I'll be interested to know how the board meeting went, and if USA Rugby will be making any changes.

  • swissh Alpharetta, GA
    May 18, 2013 9:15 p.m.

    Oh...and the'd have to be a caveman to think it has no place in Rugby. As an All Black fan, I cannot get enough of it. Still wish BYU and Utah would pick it back up for football.

  • swissh Alpharetta, GA
    May 18, 2013 9:12 p.m.

    I was totally with TomClayman until his 2nd comment. He's right about Life and St Mary's. Life is here in the Atlanta area and if you all remember they gave BYU a very good game in last year's playoffs--so don't so quickly pile on the non Varsity Cup programs. I thought "kudos to Tom for knowing the real deal" ... until the amusing missionary comment. I always love that comment when I hear opponents use it because it is so uneducated. Surprised to have seen that cited by Tom when he seemed to know his stuff.
    And what's the worry about mythical or not mythical championships...we've all been dealing with the mythical football championship for years. I've never liked it even in 1984 when it worked for BYU [...which is why I also enjoyed the shellacking BYU gave the 'supposed' Natl Champ Washington the next year.] Face it, for now the Varsity Cup is the system we have until something better can be setup. Maybe we can do like football with it's new and improved "Natl Championship" and just pick 4 teams to play in it and ignore the rest...

  • TomClayman San Francisco, CA
    May 18, 2013 6:40 p.m.

    Life University 2013 USA Rugby D1-A National Champions!

  • TomClayman San Francisco, CA
    May 18, 2013 6:02 p.m.

    I baited someone to bit on the Haka comment, but the monitor of the comments will not post my reply, which simply states that there is no place for it in the game as it has nothing to do with LDS or collegiate sports.

  • vinnyb3 Provo, UT
    May 18, 2013 4:19 p.m.

    Tom Clayman,
    For someone who acts like he knows so much about rugby I have a hard time believing that you don't know what the Haka is.

  • runnerguy50 Virginia Beach, Va
    May 18, 2013 4:00 p.m.

    So I went to the National semi's for mens club rugby put on by USA Rugby today in Virginia Beach. The fields were next to the 8-10 year old youth soccer players with very little seating. Teams traveled from Boston, Wisconsin and Minnesota to play in this tournament and you can tell it was done on a shoestring budget. No announcers, no PA system, no programs and no media coverage. Horribly overpriced cheap food. It's a wonder that rugby is growing in America at all with USA Rugby involved.

    Long live the Varsity Cup !!!!!

  • RugbyUtah West Jordan, UT
    May 18, 2013 3:39 p.m.

    I happened to be a meeting with this discussed by Cortez and some others. The reality is all of this revolves around eligibility requirements that USAR put in place under Cortez's perview. The new eligibility requirements would punish military, returned missionaries, peace corp and other players with fewer years of eligibility. Revenue share with USAR is also horrible. We ran the JWRT here and had to threaten USAR with collections to get them to pay the state its fair share of the proceeds.

    One last comment and item to remember, Cortez coached Wyoming for years and has absolutely no love for BYU or Cal.

    The Varsity cup is a great move, no matter what Cortez calls it. Things were working, barely before he took over as collegiate chairman and now he is a driving force in making USAR irrelevant. Soon we will see the state orgs breaking away do to the extremely poor leadership and management by USAR.

  • BYU Rugby Alum Moraga, CA
    May 18, 2013 2:25 p.m.

    It's unfortunate that USA Rugby and the Varsity Cup teams were not able to come to an agreement this year. We'll have to accept the fact that there will be two teams this year that can claim the title of "National Champion." The idea that the BYU/Cal game was a "Mythical Championship" is ridiculous.

    Few people that know much about college Rugby would ague that BYU and Cal aren't the two most dominant programs in the nation and have been for the past several decades. That being said, the competition from other schools is getting better every year. BYU narrowly defeated Life in the semifinals last year and St. Mary's nearly beat Cal (St. Mary's led at the half) this year. Had there been a single championship tournament, I think Cal and BYU would have met in the final, but there would have been some tough/close games on the way. St. Mary's, Life, and a few others can hold their own against Cal and BYU.

    Hopefully all the best teams can compete in a single national championship tournament next year and hopefully BYU will be three-peat National Champions. Go Cougs!

  • Wally Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 18, 2013 12:19 p.m.

    The haka is not a LDS thing. It is an old Maori tradition. It has been adopted by the Polynesians who play Rugby and football as a fun way to maybe intimidate the opposition. The ancient Maori's would line up opposing each other and do the fearsome "Haka." Just like now, it largely failed to accomplish that goal. But was a great tradition. To call it a LDS thing shows a naive lack of understanding.

  • NevadaCoug Overton, NV
    May 18, 2013 11:41 a.m.

    "BYU would have been crushed by any of the teams that finished in the top ten that year."

    Sure. Whatever. I supposed that's why BYU played against Washington the next year and beat up on them; pretty much the same Washington team that some thought should have been champions in 1984.

    And Utah was going to be demolished by Alabama, right? And Boise State didn't have a prayer against Oklahoma. Need I go on?

  • TomClayman San Francisco, CA
    May 18, 2013 10:48 a.m.


    Your post doesn't make sense.

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    May 18, 2013 9:45 a.m.

    If Rugby USA thinks a two year hiatus is an unfair advantage, send their players to the Peace Corps for two years. The "mission advantage" is a common fallacy and inverted argument. When BYU wins it's because missions give an unfair advantage and when BYU loses it is because missions cause athletes to be old and soft. Rugby USA needs to grow up and join the higher level competition. For Tom in SF, the answer is yes. Other schools admit student athletes in similar circumstances. The military academies have their own way of recruiting athletes. Is being unaware on the haka a SF thing?

  • TomClayman San Francisco, CA
    May 18, 2013 9:10 a.m.

    Is the Haka a LDS thing?

  • JMT Springville, UT
    May 18, 2013 7:25 a.m.

    Excellent article. Now I know what happened and why.

    I'm a former BYU rugby player, really happy for the team and coaching staff. Also, really happy Utah is getting sorted out. We waged some serious battles with that team. Whatever happens BYU and Cal will end up on top with Utah and others right on their heels.

  • BYU sports on TV in Missouri Lebanon, MO
    May 17, 2013 10:07 p.m.

    As it applies to the 1984 National championship... It wasn't BYU's choice to play Michigan. They were willing to play any team. Many top notch major conference teams could have come to the Holiday Bowl to play BYU. None were willing to come So BYU beat the Michigan team that was willing to come play.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 17, 2013 9:46 p.m.

    Salt Lake City, UT
    Chris B, enough with the jealousy, we won a National Championship in football live with it. The 2 best teams in rugby are BYU and Cal, bottom line, so how can this Cortez really believe that the winner of his game would be considered the best in college rugby. Personally I don't think he does, he knows that their in trouble so he has to try and down play it. Personally I think this years championship means more than the one last year because they beat the best team. It's like Memphis Grizzlies beating the Thunder, it doesn't quite have the same feel because the Thunder didn't have their best team. I think Memphis would be more proud of beating a Thunder team with Westbrook playing then with him out.


    Ok then lets use your example. BYU did not even play the best team to win the title in 1984. Do you and BYU fans think that beating a 6-6 Michigan was an accomplishment? BYU would have been crushed by any of the teams that finished in the top ten that year.

  • BYU sports on TV in Missouri Lebanon, MO
    May 17, 2013 6:20 p.m.

    So many empty logic trails... If BYU having older/bigger/more mature athletes as a result of missions was such an advantage all schools would be encouraging LDS athletes to go on missions. Don't see too many schools trying to copy BYU's mission/athlete juggling act. USA Rugby trying downplay the varsity cup and say that BYU won a mythical national championship is the same as the NIT trying to claim superiority over the NCAA tournament. The championship tradition of the teams involved with the varsity cup clearly show who the big dogs are and where the best competition will be found.

    Watched BYU baseball last night on TV. Great game. Love watching the cougars play sports.

  • sg newhall, CA
    May 17, 2013 6:11 p.m.

    Rugby USA is just bitter that a third of its members left. Seems to suggest that Rugby USA is not as innocent and clean as they espouse. Rugby USA is a myth in its own mind. No one is going to care about their championship tournament. It's about as valid and the football's BCS.

  • Blue Cougar Oak Harbor, WA
    May 17, 2013 5:42 p.m.

    Rich Cortez is full of himself! If he is the face of USA Rugby than I say good riddance! And let's get BYU Rugby back on BYUTV!

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2013 4:41 p.m.

    Y Grad/Y Dad,
    Nice comment to the ankle biters.

  • Elmer Fudd Sandy, Utah
    May 17, 2013 4:36 p.m.

    "What BYU won ... was a mythical championship"

    And Cougie Nation goes into a panic!

  • Ironhide Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2013 4:18 p.m.

    Oh my. I say this to all haters. If you let your loathing cloud your ability to reason and instead lead with emotion before your fact gathering deductive mind, save yourself the trouble of commenting and fast track your take with one word written on your forehead using a big black sharpie. The word is FOOL.

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2013 3:49 p.m.

    Let USA Rugby call it what they want. BYU Rugby's performance over the years is impressive--- to say the least.

  • TomClayman San Francisco, CA
    May 17, 2013 3:19 p.m.

    @Truth Machine

    You claimed:

    "As far as "importing players", every school out there has the exact same opportunity to recruit foreign players as BYU."

    Coach David Smyth stated in a Desert News piece on May 13, 2013 about Linehan from New Zealand:

    "One of those players showed up at the beginning of October, shoes in hand, all the way from New Zealand. "Jonny (Linehan) showed up and we worked him out on Tuesday, he came back for an hour and a half on Thursday, and we were impressed with what he could do," Smyth said. Linehan went home, took the ACT, and was in school by Jan. 9."

    You tell me what university other BYU can a student take the ACT in October and be enrolled 3 months later? Do you think other Varsity Cup teams can do that? UCLA? Air Force? Dartmouth? Navy?

    You're living in a dreamland.

  • Warrior Parent Belle Glade, FL
    May 17, 2013 3:09 p.m.

    USA Rugby needs to get over itself...

    CAL vs BYU is several steps above anything USA Rugby has left. They need to cooperate and give the 2 year mission allowance then everybody can play nice

  • clayvickery SANDY, UT
    May 17, 2013 3:02 p.m.

    Even local high school kids have to pay fees to be a part of USA Rugby. I've heard the team fee is much more.

  • Beaver Native Garland, UT
    May 17, 2013 3:01 p.m.

    What would you expect USA Rugby to say? That the opposing championship was the legitimate one? Just more snootiness on the part of USA Rugby. While I like the structure of the USA Rugby championship, they put their legitimacy for crowning national champions into question when they set up their exclusionary rules.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2013 2:56 p.m.


    "As good of a team that BYU is I have to give my respect to Cal where they don't have 26 year old student athletes and where they don't import 21 year old players as "Freshman" to play in the skill positions."

    It's interesting how often this argument is used when BYU is doing well in football, or basketball, or rugby, yet the disadvantages of missionaries departing for two years after their Freshman year and coming back out of shape, and sometimes suffering from parasites picked up in the 3rd world countries they served, and the juggling act BYU coaches face trying to make plans for recruited players who might not actually step onto a football field or basketball court or rugby pitch for 3 or 4 years, are completely ignored by those who have no concept of the disadvantages BYU has to overcome because of athletes serving church missions.

    Some of those disadvantages will be remedied by the earlier missionary age, but not all.

    As far as "importing players", every school out there has the exact same opportunity to recruit foreign players as BYU.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    May 17, 2013 2:48 p.m.

    “The (USA Rugby) national championship is the one you earn your way into. What BYU won against Cal was a mythical championship.”

    Where have we heard this before? '84 comes to mind, when byu literally played against the 3rd easiest schedule in the nation and was rewarded for it by being crowned the "MYTHICAL" NC. Seriously, this stuff can't be made up. I've got popcorn in-hand, kicking it on my Lazy-Boy and literally roaring in laughter.

    Never actually earned through their play, but overflowing with PRE-season/MYTHICAL accolades = byu athletics. Good times.

  • Cleetorn Fuaamotu, Tonga
    May 17, 2013 2:46 p.m.

    It may be a little off-topic but since it has been bantered about in several of the posts in here, I’ll direct one toward Tajemnica with “May sound like 1984 but remind me again how many national championship trophies in football utah has?”

    The BCS (and all its incarnations) was formed to make sure another 1984 wouldn’t happen. Were it not for that, Utah would have had its NC when it rolled over Alabama in 2009 becoming the ONLY undefeated college team in the country. The fact that the BCS discounted it is no different than USAR discounting the Varsity Cup this year. Utah has a NC. They just don’t have a trophy to strut around.

  • runnerguy50 Virginia Beach, Va
    May 17, 2013 2:39 p.m.

    USA Rugby is simply a tax organization on rugby teams. They give little and take much. Cortez's comments were childish and unprofessional just like USARugby.

  • TomClayman San Francisco, CA
    May 17, 2013 2:33 p.m.

    As good of a team that BYU is I have to give my respect to Cal where they don't have 26 year old student athletes and where they don't import 21 year old players as "Freshman" to play in the skill positions. Cal develops players right out of HS and have had BYU's number for quite a few years. When the day comes that more universities support the rugby program the Cal model is scaleable. The BYU model of older players will be neutralized, like it is in basketball and football, when the quality of young athletes trump the age advantage. Also, the ability to get the import talent into BYU within 3 to 6 months after identifying them is not realistic at almost every other university.

    Enjoy your dominance, but the day will come when there are 20 Cal type programs and BYU will be just a mediocre team.

    May 17, 2013 2:27 p.m.

    If my memory is right.....which it is BYU went to life in the playoffs last year and beat them. They regularly crushed St. Mary's so you tell me which championship is mythical. BYU beat Cal which is well known for being the best rugby program for many many years. End of discussion.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 17, 2013 2:21 p.m.


    Re: "Chris ... Through overuse you're diluting the impact of a well-placed "LOL.""

    While I tend to agree with this statement, have you taken the time to mention the same thing to our friend Duckhunter?

  • Darkbull Pleasant Grove, UT
    May 17, 2013 2:06 p.m.

    The key point of the article is the finances. As a former player and familiar with what's going on, there is one program in the U.S. with a large enough endowment to attract and support national and international players--Cal. BYU has struggled on an extramural budget that hasn't changed since the early 90s, and though there have been some changes in administrative support, the BYU athletic department has no interest in changing their support or model of support for extramural programs (see BYU lax coach leaving for greener pastures, soccer program leaving the club scene to get some legitimacy in a semi-pro league). So when BYU goes to the national championship in California multiple times, and isn't even reimbursed enough for their travel and lodging expenses by USA Rugby, one can begin to see the frustration of trying to work with a national program that is unwilling to appropriately reimburse the programs generating the revenue. Cortez's suggestion that they should be there for the highs and lows is silly. The programs that generate the revenue should get disapproportionate income from it.

  • IdahoCoog Malad City, ID
    May 17, 2013 2:04 p.m.

    Why doesn't BYU simply challenge the winner... like the two divisions in the NFL, to proclaim a national champion?.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2013 1:48 p.m.

    #1 Champ

    "Does Manti Teo play for BYU Rugby because he should. They seem to have a lot in common."

    Not really.

  • Zoniezoobie Mesa, AZ
    May 17, 2013 1:47 p.m.

    Shame on USA Rugby for knowingly excluding BYU with their 5 year eligibility clock!

    With the new mission age, their running clock may work if it didn't start until a player plays his first match..

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    May 17, 2013 1:39 p.m.

    Sounds a lot like the snooty exclusiveness of the BCS in D1 Football, but more like if Alabama were excluded from next year's BCS.

    Chris B's post is more ridiculous since Utah's rugby team is also excluded. Nice try...

    btw - where can we get some of this gear? I really like the black and blue rugby shirts. I've never seen them for sale anywhere. Very cool!!

  • #1 Champ Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2013 1:33 p.m.

    Does Manti Teo play for BYU Rugby because he should. They seem to have a lot in common.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    May 17, 2013 1:25 p.m.

    The LOL starts whenever I see a comment coming from Chris B about any BYU sporting event. Every reader of DN sports articles who has been around awhile knows better than to take Chris B seriously. It's interesting that even many Ute fans will often chide him for his extremism. Based on his past comments, any college not named U-of-U that wins a national championship in any sport can't be legitimate... especially if that college happens to be BYU.
    Someday, if he lives long enough, the Utes just might win a national championship in a men's sporting event. For his sake, I hope it happens. Then, in that private world he's been living in since 1984, the sky will finally turn from an artificial red color to the true blue color that everyone else enjoys.

  • AZguy Phoenix, AZ
    May 17, 2013 1:20 p.m.

    I have no doubt that BYU had the best rugby team in college this year. They beat professional teams in the highest classification of USA Rugby and lost to other pro teams in close matches.

    It does not matter to me what you call it, the Varsity Cup Champion is the best college rugby team in 2013. Anyone honest with themselves would say the same thing.

  • dnay Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2013 12:53 p.m.

    Chris B, enough with the jealousy, we won a National Championship in football live with it. The 2 best teams in rugby are BYU and Cal, bottom line, so how can this Cortez really believe that the winner of his game would be considered the best in college rugby. Personally I don't think he does, he knows that their in trouble so he has to try and down play it. Personally I think this years championship means more than the one last year because they beat the best team. It's like Memphis Grizzlies beating the Thunder, it doesn't quite have the same feel because the Thunder didn't have their best team. I think Memphis would be more proud of beating a Thunder team with Westbrook playing then with him out.

  • TomClayman San Francisco, CA
    May 17, 2013 12:52 p.m.

    St Mary's ran Cal very close just a few weeks before Cal played BYU. I think St Mary's was up by 11 at the half and lost by 10 in the end. Life probably will beat St Mary's this weekend. To say that Life or St Mary's can be beat by any of the Varsity Cup teams is a stretch. Life or St Mary's could beat BYU or Cal on a given day. Not the favorites, but certainly not an easy game.

  • vinnyb3 Provo, UT
    May 17, 2013 12:29 p.m.

    I'd love to see a match between BYU and the winner of Life and St. Mary's. I remember BYU beating both of these teams last year.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    May 17, 2013 12:05 p.m.

    Looks like USA Rugby did the equivalent of forcing the SEC out of the major college football playoffs.

    Sorry, but you don't kick Alabama, LSU, and Florida to the curb and then try to claim that your tournament still determines the "real" national champion.

    Every real rugby fan knows that the two best teams in the country played in the Varsity Cup championship match and that match determined the real national champion.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    May 17, 2013 11:51 a.m.

    Chris B

    Since EVERY AP National Champion has been determined in exactly the same way, by finishing #1 in the final poll of a nation-wide panel of sportswriters, EVERY national champion from 1936 to 2012, at least according to your theory, is a nothing more than a "mythical" national champion.

    This of course makes Utah's 2004 and 2008 teams "mythical" #4 and #2 teams, and of course makes every Utah win over a Top 25 team a win over a "mythical" Top 25 team.

    Sorry bro, but you can't have it both ways.

    Either you have to recognize BYU's 1984 National Championship as being just as legitimate as any other national championship, or you have to label every national champion as illegitimate.

  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    May 17, 2013 11:33 a.m.

    Article quote: "I applaud their efforts, but the Varsity Cup is an invitational. The (USA Rugby) national championship is the one you earn your way into,” USA Rugby Collegiate Director Rich Cortez said. “What BYU won against Cal was a mythical championship.”


    Good grief!, that positively reeks of snootiness.

    So a team that competed in 6 straight championships (BYU) has to abide by a rule that..

    1) limits the time an athlete can play it by the number of years they graduate after high school (What college sport does that??? Answer: none of the others.)

    2) allows for ONE year leaves of absence, when LDS missionaries need 2 years for mission.

    No, the Rugby USA Collegiate guys don't have it out for BYU at aaaaall. (end sarcasm)

  • SlopJ30 St Louis, MO
    May 17, 2013 11:25 a.m.

    Yes, 1984's NC was a "mythical" NC. So was 1985's, 1986's, 1987's . . etc etc up through 2013. Without any sort of workable playoff, every NC is make-believe. When votes go a long way to determining who a sport's champ is, it's illegitimate.

    Chris LOL's about a lot of stuff that just doesn't seem that amusing. Dude, were really laughing out loud when you typed up your post? Through overuse you're diluting the impact of a well-placed "LOL."

  • IRS Agent PROVO, UT
    May 17, 2013 11:07 a.m.

    @ Chris B

    So now you are discrediting the Rugby NC that was won by a team from the same league that Utah plays in? I believe you have just exposed the true rationale behind all of your posts regarding BYU.

    Don't look now, but I believe your jealousy is showing ;).

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    May 17, 2013 11:06 a.m.

    Why would christy be questioning the legitimacy of a national championship that the Utes could be in line to win next year?

    Seems that in her haste to bash BYU, she stomped all over her own future prospects.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    May 17, 2013 11:03 a.m.

    You're right, Chris B. This championship is just as mythical as the 1984 championship. Just go take a look at the trophy and see just how "mythical" it is!

  • NorCalCougarFan&Alum Elk Grove, CA
    May 17, 2013 10:58 a.m.

    I would say that BYU, Cal, and the other top rugby teams should form their own conference or league, make it permanent, and leave USA Rugby in the dust. It's obvious that Cortez has it out for BYU just like many University of Wyoming folks. Let USA Rugby flounder and then disappear. Saint Mary's and "Life" University wouldn't stand a chance against any of the Varsity Cup Eight Teams.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    May 17, 2013 10:53 a.m.

    Chris, so glad you finally get it! Both 1984 and 2013 are National Champions, recognized by all except those few with chips on their shoulders.

    Thanks for coming round~!

  • LindonMan Lindon, UT
    May 17, 2013 10:15 a.m.

    Sounds like the BCS of Rugby. BYU 1 USAR/Cortez 0. Go Cougars!

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    May 17, 2013 9:34 a.m.

    Well I don't know much about Rugby and now not a National Champion? Double Wammy, but at least BYU did beat Cal the second time. Still a well done game. Anyone one know where to watch this Rugby 101 or "Rugby for Dummies"? Sure I could live in New Zeland or England to learn Rugby.

  • Tajemnica West Valley, Utah
    May 17, 2013 8:32 a.m.

    @Christine. May sound like 1984 but remind me again how many national championship trophies in football utah has?

    Go Trojans!

  • Healthy Skeptic Saratoga Springs, UT
    May 17, 2013 8:29 a.m.

    LOL...and yet we consistenly refer to the winners of the MLB championship as the "World Champions". We even call it the "World Series". We call the NBA champions and the NFL champions the "World Champions". This is all a bunch of hoopla over nothing. Next thing you know, the Jets from the lowly AFL are gonna claim they can beat the Colts from the mighty NFL.

  • AZ Blue & Red Gilbert, AZ
    May 17, 2013 8:24 a.m.

    BYU and Cal would wipe the floor with either of the 2 finalist in the "National Championship" game. In fact I bet most of the 8 would do well if not beat the final 2 teams. The 5 year rule was a shot at BYU and they knew it when they made the rule. What did they expect BYU to do? If you have not noticed BYU will not roll over and die. Whenever they are faced with not fair rules they push back hard. I remember when the Feds tried to get them to coed all dorms. Yeah that went over well. Football? Yeah we rolled over dead there too.

    I think the USA Rugby will cave. Now that most of the better teams and most of the high profile universities are gone if they want them back they better listen to what they have to say. If not then we keep on doing what we are doing. There is no question in anybodys mind that BYU and Cal were and are the best 2 teams in the College Rugby.

  • footballisgood Holladay, UT
    May 17, 2013 8:06 a.m.

    This is just USA Rugby trying to discredit them because they are upset their cash cow has left. And Cortez is the director? He was the head coach of Wyoming, which would routinely get beat by 80 points by either of these teams. Jealous much?

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    May 17, 2013 7:36 a.m.

    Cortez is well spoken, but it doesn't sound like a good business move to take a direct shot at one of the historically top two teams in the sport after you've already lost the other top (two) team.

    Hate to see anyone jump out of the "all for one and one for all" financial model of team sports, but its bound to happen when you have individuals and teams already sacrificing so much for love of the game. You can only milk the cash cows so long.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    May 17, 2013 7:37 a.m.


    "How can you possibly dispute which tournament crowned the true national champion when Varsity Cup teams have won 31 out of 33 national championships?"

    Make that 32 out of 34 national championships for Varsity Cup teams.

    With the Varsity Cup looking to grow - Texas and Utah are already in the mix for next season - it sounds like do or die time for USA Rugby to do whatever it takes to draw Varsity Cup teams back into the USAR tourney, or USAR could lose all of its Division 1A teams to the Varsity Cup.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2013 7:31 a.m.

    Sounds a lot like 1984


  • Vladhagen Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2013 7:28 a.m.

    Are we seriously going to question if Life or St. Mary's has a legitimate chance of competing against either of these schools who played in the "championship?" Skill, not naming rights, determine who the true champion is.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2013 8:26 p.m.

    How can you possibly dispute which tournament crowned the true national champion when Varsity Cup teams have won 31 out of 33 national championships?