"This begs the question: Why would ESPN choose to air..." Please,
"begging the question" is a form of logical fallacy in which a statement
or claim is assumed to be true without evidence other than the statement or
claim itself. To beg the question does not mean to raise the question.
sls: "Meanwhile, BYU's stock is on the rise, even after a relatively
lackluster season in football, capped off by a bowl victory on ESPN."
Don't forget your truly stellar 2013 recruiting class. So, take that you,
you, Utes. lol
The reason that an article like this attracts lots of comments from ute fans is
the recognition that BYU's contract with ESPN has a lot more value than
just the money that BYU earns. The utes are struggling in their new conference.
They get money but not exposure. And the basketball program is still in the
dumps while the football program has taken a nosedive--so low that the utes now
have to cancel their rivalry contract so that they can recruit in Fresno in a
desperate attempt to compete for some overlooked players in the PAC12.The desperation increases the hostility towards BYU, even though the two
schools are no longer competing for conference titles. Meanwhile, BYU's
stock is on the rise, even after a relatively lackluster season in football,
capped off by a bowl victory on ESPN.
@Wiscougarfan... I think that your comment directed at Chris B may have been the
best "put down" I have seen on these blogs... Thanks from all of us.
Of course the assumption is that all those who tuned into the game do so just to
watch byu. Never is it considered that Baylor has fans. Nope, they all wanted
to watch byu. I'd bet my house that if byu had played Duke, the ratings
would have been through the roof even on ESPN2. Why, because more people would
have wanted to watch byu...wink, wink.
AntelopeValleyUte,I love your comment...other than saying that BYU
fans have egos. Not all do, just as there are SOME Utah fans with egos. I agree
with the "do something in the last 30 years" comment. To a point. Jimmer
and Cotton Bowl. What's more important to note is that when BYU wins a game
against a ranked opponent, they see huge benefits. But we also have to be honest
in the fact that BYU puts fans in the seats at home and on the road, and they
also put eyes in front of the tv. In a world driven by tv ratings, that is going
to trump the "what have you done lately" montra. In most cases. Face it.
ESPN loves putting BYU on its networks, but they also don't want to
saturate the market. It also benefits them to put BYU on the deuce, if only to
lift the ratings a little harder for their #2 option on tv.And yes,
I agree that BYU needs to do something big that is more current. At least in the
case of football.
Gone fishin, perception is what I'm talking about in the eyes of TV
networks (aka ESPN affiliates). While this article was written by Deseret News,
it represents the mentality of some BYU fans, "I wrote earlier this week
about how BYU benefits from Friday night games, primarily because they always
air on The Mothership and not its little sister.In football, BYU
games on ESPN average about 1.7 million households viewing, while games on ESPN2
don’t even get 1 million." The writer wrote this like they are picky
as if BYU was not televised on ESPN but rather ESPN2. Point is, as with Utah,
BYU is in the same boat, you won't get the TV love unless you've done
something recently, not 30 years ago, not even 4 years ago. What have you done
lately? While ESPN will consider the Mormon national following, they will pick
other popular household names in the country before BYU, and that includes
women's basketball.Some of you BYU fans can rub it in, and
least I admit Utah has work to do in many areas. Some BYU fans won't admit
shortcomings their teams may have...it's called ego.
I had fun looking at Nielsen ratings over my lunch break today. Interesting
that no anti-byu trolls have brought up actual ratings for this last year.
Here’s a summary…BYU basketball: 10 games on national tv
(I’m not counting BYUtv since it's not truly national), 347k average
number of viewers per game Utah basketball: 4 games, 288k average
viewersUSU basketball: 1 game, 114k average viewersBYU
football: 9 games (3 BCS opponents, 6 non BCS), 1.68m average viewersUtah
football: 5 games (4 BCS, 1 non), 1.27m average viewersUSU football: 3
games (1 BCS, 2 non), 1.63m average viewersNielsen might have it
wrong, but it look like BYU plays to more of a national audience than the other
Utah schools AND more people watch their games. Also interesting to note that
more people are watching BYU play non-BCS schools than are tuning in to watch
Utah play PAC 12 schools. Independence ain’t so bad. Go Cougs!
Meh. Could be worse. We could be on "The Ocho."Why do I get
the feeling that arguing over TV contracts, "national brands" or
viewership statistics is the new "my dad can beat up your dad?"
indycrimson"WCC Mens basketball????Womens basketball???Hhhhmmmm...what should I watch??? Hhmmmm....tough one, I'll get
back to you tomorrow..."WCC men's basketball blog on BYU
being on ESPN?ute blog.....which should I read and comment on??? Hmmm,
tough one....I looked tomorrow, and found my answer. Easy to tell
which basketball you would watch. Nice try.
Lets start singing Rise and Shout The Cougars are out.....Stupid conferences
don't recognize our national brand!! Their loss!!
ESPN is run by liberal Democrats so quotas and political correctness is more
important than truth or profits. This is how they hire sportscasters and how
they made the decision to put the women's game ahead of the men's.
WAC (USU) Paddled My Utes"The Pac Network is in its first
season"Your network was summarily shunned by Direct TV and most
cable networks east of Colorado. That's some 'nationwide'
network.What's even funnier is that some cable networks in Utah
didn't pick it up. LOL
Despite the great efforts of Political Correctness to tell us that men and women
are the same as well as all races and nationalities, woman's basketball
just doesn't have the draw that the men's has. I've heard the
argument that woman's basketball is "purer" because there is more
teamwork and less "One Man Show" or less one on one. Regardless or
Irregardless for those in Springville, the two brands of basketball are as
different as night and day, people vote with their feet filling the arena for
the men's game while the woman's fans come in disguise as empty seats.
I do resent the efforts made to push it in the face of the fan in what might be
described as a genuine belief that "If you just see it, you'll love
Gone fishinMurray, UTWho even watches the PAC network anyway? I
don't even know where to find it. SO much for being in a so-called elite
conference when noone can watch the games.____________Tell us
how TV exposure has worked out for BYU against ranked teams the past few
years.How typical. It's bad enough that some BYU fans have
unrealistic expectations and wishes about Coug sports.The Pac network is
in its first season.I see Notre Dame just signed a new contract with
NBC. Keep riding those coattails! I guess they are not exactly independent now
with a semi agreement with the ACC in football. But at least you have your new
band of buddies with Idaho and New Mexico St.
@Go UtesToo bad the Utes couldn't make it on to Root Sports. Hows
that PAC 12 network working for ya? Why don't you ask the Mountain West
Conf. how their experience went?
If they would have put the women's game on ESPN2, there would have been
cries of sexism. They had to put it on the main channel to avoid flack. Plus,
the other game was NIT, and no one cares about that except for fans of the
The reason BYU was on ESPN for the first round game is because the NIT early
round games start before the NCAA tournament does. By the NIT final four, the
NCAA games are the dominant factor. So it's not so much that BYU was
getting hosed, as ESPN wants ratings, it's that the NIT is an afterthought
relative to the 'Big Dance'. BYU does provide ratings so ESPN for all
their faults isn't that clueless. As for that 'Big Dance',
it's going to be unfortunately bigger (98 teams) shortly. I say that
because although I favor a playoff (note to BCS elitists), I still don't
want a playoff with all of planet earth involved to render the regular season
@Ute MiguelSo if the NCAA tourney is the real one and the NIT is
only a pretend Tourney, what does that say about Ute Bball program, that they
couldn't even get to the NIT? UTES FANS: you are allowed to talk smack when
your team is actually relevant, has a winning record, and makes the post season.
End of story.
"BYU NIT ratings show ESPN and ESPN2 are not equal." So, the premise of
this article is that more people would have watched a semi-final game in a
second rate tournament if it was carried on ESPN instead of ESPN2. Presto, the
byu fan base feels that they were jilted by the hand that feeds them. Maybe,
just maybe, sports viewers don't care that much about byu and would rather
watch the women play. Now, there's an angle for a story and that premise
is no less valid this story. Once again, the byu media finds a way to blame
someone else for disappointing results.
Who even watches the PAC network anyway? I don't even know where to find
it. SO much for being in a so-called elite conference when noone can watch the
Go Utes!--the Cougs were not hosed, but the utes got soaked.
WCC Mens basketball???? Womens basketball???Hhhhmmmm...what
should I watch??? Hhmmmm....tough one, I'll get back to you tomorrow...
Whatever it was probably exceeded those watching the ute post-season tourney.
"Women's basketball is a joke, I wouldn't waste five minutes
watching women's basketball."Hmmm...so you've never
watched the women's game and wouldn't devote 5 minutes to doing so,
yet you offer your expert opinion that it is a "joke"? Very sound
reasoning.I challenge you to give it a try sometime. It might change
your mind. You'll come to realize that even though the game differs in
obvious ways, the level of effort, dedication, pulling together for a common
goal, and love of the game are every bit as real as in the men's game. I
love the game of basketball. My respect goes to anyone who laces them up and
steps onto the court to compete.
We still get $6,000,000 to $8,000,000 per game everytime we're on ESPN or
ESPN 2, can't change those facts.
I really don't care if 1.7 million watch the game or 1.0 million watch the
game. I only care if 1 person can get the game, and that's me. I also
care about whether it's in HD. I can watch most of the football,
basketball and volleyball games on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU or BYUtv. I'm so happy we're not on The MTN anymore. I'm also glad
we're not on the PAC Network. I give it a couple of years before it
folds.ESPN is only contracted to carry 3 BYU home football games per
year, but can carry up to five. ESPN has picked up 5 games in BYU's first
two years of Indy. The only reason ESPN does this is because people are
watching. ESPN wouldn't cover the games if nobody was watching.
ESPN may be better than ESPN2, but nothing compares to free, network TV. I
"fired" DirecTV a few years ago and don't miss it. Aside from
ESPN, there was very little (if anything) worth watching. Now, I OCCASIONALLY
stream BYU TV and watch network TV. Most of my annual TV viewing is LDS General
Conference (16 hrs/year) and Sunday Night Football (about 10 hrs/year). BYU
Football would be higher, but very few live games are on BYU TV when I can watch
them.Bottom line: I might subscribe to ESPN for $10/month, but I
don't want any of the other garbage in the packages. Without an a la carte
option, I opt to not buy anything.
Antelope,Please show me in the article where BYU and the fans are
expecting more air time. Me thin yu read too much into story. Also, how can
you guarantee that schools other than BYU would have made it on ESPN? You must
have a crytal ball! Typical Utah fan, spouting untuths and speclation. Please
tell me how many people saw Utah play in the post season?
Fails to mention you are comparing a women's real championship tournament
(NCAA) to a men's pretend championship tourney (NIT). This explains why
ESPN picked the women's game.
Dumb article. Just wasted 5 minutes of my day
RE: Chris B. "the Notre Dame v. Duke women’s game drew 1.2 million
households – about the same number as the WCC Conference Men’s
Tournament final." LOL, need I say more?We all know that you
will indeed "say more" so I'd love to hear your take on the average
viewership of the PAC 12 (783k in 2012) or how about we look at common opponents
that faced BYU and the U this season... Utah vs. Washington: 171k, BYU vs.
Washington: 1.1m. Lol, need I say more?
And since the utes are not in any tournament they rarely appear on the mighty
pac12 network or any other network for that matter. Need I say more?
what it comes down to is, while BYU and its fans want the TV exposure and pride
itself of a mostly Mormon national following and think BYU is worthy of it, ESPN
and its affiliates don't think so. If the two teams in the NIT were Baylor
and another BIG name basketball team (examples UCLA, Georgetown, Duke, Michigan
St, Florida, Arizona, Syracuse, Cinn, Pitt, Indiana), you can guarantee they
will be televised on ESPN. Other than BYU's football team, ESPN (IMO)
still doesn't have much respect for BYU's other sports in the same
light and still treats it as if they were still playing in the WAC or Mountain
West. This hold true the same for Utah, even though it has the PAC-12, ESPN,
ABC, and FOX networks, until Utah can field a quality teams with winning records
consistently in any of its sports, TV exposure will be sporadic or limited at
I found it interesting that the Pac 12 conference champtionship game also drew a
Reading Comprehension 101The point of the article is that more
viewers automatically go to ESPN ("The Mothership") and that other games
on their other channels (ESPN2, ESPN News, ESPNU) even though better matchups,
will likely not beat the ratings of a supposedly inferior product. This is
regardless of the teams playing. So, the encouraging part for a BYU
fan is that their matchup against Baylor had 44 percent more viewership than any
other NIT matchup on the same channel. And, the emphasis is the need for BYU to
leverage their ESPN partnership to get on ESPN more...not the subchannels.Amazing how trolls twist ANY information to fit their narrow worldview.
It's as simple as this. ESPN would rather tickle the ears of 50 Notre
Dame-Duke fans as 500 BYU- Baylor fans. It's all about being east of the
Mississippi river baby!
Dear Ryan Teeples,Please look up the meaning of "begs the
question." You are using it incorrectly.
A lot of cable companies carry the Mothership (ESPN) but not the little sisters
(ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPNews). However, the point needs to be made that even ESPN2
reaches a lot more households than the PAC12 network.
Ryan Teeples, BYU begs for exposure, but then complains when they get it.
First, KSL broadcasts weren't enough, then ESPN odd day / time games, then
the debacle of the MTN, and now complaining about ESPN2 not being
'enough' eyeballs. How about thinking things through on
the next network agreement? Specify that you want X number of ESPN flagship
games, at prime start times, and a limited number of other ESPN networks. It won't happen, because ESPN would end the business lunch right
there, and give the money to the next school in a heartbeat.Be happy
with what the Y has, since this deal is for several more years.
RE: dumprake, RSWow... just wow. But at least you're being
honest. When I lived in Connecticut (about ten years ago) UCONN women's
basketball was as big or bigger than men's, even when the men won the
national championship. Why? Because women's basketball is very different
from men's. Instead of showcasing individual talent (a la Kentucky), the
women's game is all about teamwork and fundamentals. If you crave dunks
and individual accomplishments stick to men's basketball, otherwise there
is a lot of good and entertaining basketball to be seen in women's ball.
Re dumprake : All men's basketball is a joke at the college and pro levels
IMVHO. No better or less scripted than the WWE. The women's game has a
much more honest and sincere feel to it.
@Go Utes!Well, we couldn't very well compare the Utes playing
on ESPN vs. ESPN 2 now could could we.
I would watch women's basketball....if my grandaugter was playing in the
Women's basketball is a joke, I wouldn't waste five minutes watching
women's basketball. Now, women's volleyball? yes, I would watch that,
they are good at it, it's entertaining, but women's basketball is
silly, awful basketball.
I am sorry BYU didn't make it on ESPN. that was the point of this
article right? Feel sorry for BYU, they got hosed.