Faith leaders call for immigration reforms that preserve families

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  • raybies Layton, UT
    April 18, 2013 8:37 a.m.

    I think we should let immigrant families stay.

  • marcamus goochland, va
    April 18, 2013 7:02 a.m.

    @ bill in nebraska. Keep up the good work. It seems you are greatly outnumbered in the comments here, but don't lose hope.

    So many here are willing to throw the first stone. Amnesty is a form of justice and mercy. How many securities fraud and environmental cases go away through the payment of fines? Judges routinely exercise forms of amnesty everyday. The amnesty in the immigration bill is far from an easy path. We are talking 13 years plus the guarantee of payment of all taxes (that should help fill the coffers). Imagine all the individuals now paying taxes and more importantly businesses withholding taxes.

    I served my mission in Utah in the Hispanic community and worked with many families who joined the church after arriving in Utah. Fortunately, with the help of good supporting members (obviously not the type who are posting here) welcomed these new members and supported them.

    I call on many of you to be more charitable and remember that amnesty is not a freebie, it satisfies both mercy and justice. And, yes I believe also in e-verify for all businesses.

  • wrz Pheonix, AZ
    April 17, 2013 7:54 p.m.

    "Bill in Nebraska:
    "I wonder how many of you have actually known an illegal alien or even could recognize one."

    It's impossible to know, mainly because the federal government has decided that you can't ask for ID's... Something about the Democrats (and their leader, Obama) going after the Hispanic vote.

    "Many are honest individuals that are looking for a better way of life than what they had."

    How can you call them 'honest individuals?' Honest individuals don't break laws. Besides, we have millions of unemployed Americans looking for work that your 'honest individuals' are here to grab up.

    "Many of them know that if they are caught they will have to go back."

    Not under Obama's reign.

    "Most try to not to do anything that brings attention to them."

    I think what you mean is... they try their best to not get caught stealing ID's.

    "As Christ said, 'Ye that are without sin, cast the first stone.'

    What Christ didn't say is, since some sin you are free to do likewise.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    April 17, 2013 5:44 p.m.

    @Bill in Nebraska

    Jesus did not break any civil laws,

    The laws he supposedly broke were religious laws, laws which he had come to replace with a higher law.

    By the way we have no problem with those who immigrated legally, and have no problem giving them a helping hand.

    The others must satisfy justice, and mercy can not rob justice.

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    April 17, 2013 4:25 p.m.

    So now I'm perverting the ways of the Lord because I'm calling you for being judgemental of these immigrants. There are between 10-12 million illegal immigrants in this country. Many are here to obtain a better way of life from what they were experiencing in the country from which they came. They came from poverty and are still many still in poverty. They are doing minimal tasks that most AMERICANS refuse to do so as working in the fields and meat packing plants among many other minimal jobs most Americans find dehumanizing. They are low pay. Many of you who are so judgemental wouldn't be caught dead doing the jobs they are doing. Taking jobs away from those seeking a job, NOT.

    Christ said to render onto Ceasar what belonged to Ceasar. He healed on the Sabbath, though it was common knowledge that such a thing was WRONG. He even mentioned working to pull a wagon out of the mud on the Sabbath, but the law so know. Man made laws didn't apply to the Savior. At the time of the Savior one could go from country to country. Know one checked their PAPERS.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    April 17, 2013 1:27 p.m.

    To "Bill in Nebraska" ask yourself this. Would Jesus break the law, even if he did not agree with it?

    Are we supposed to be like Jesus or not?

    If you say we are to be like Jesus, then we should be like him ALL the time. We shouldn't break the law, and we should be prepared to pay the consequence for breaking the law. Jesus didn't break the law, but he paid the consequence for those who would.

    Again, Jesus didn't break laws, and was prepared to pay the price for breaking the law.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    April 17, 2013 12:01 p.m.

    @Bill in Nebraska

    All of us are "looking for a better life." This does not give us the right to shoplift or rob a bank. -- if doing so for one's child.

    "Ask yourself what Jesus would do then act accordingly."

    Jesus would say "Repent -- and Sin No More.

    Stop perverting the right ways of the Lord.

  • JayTee Sandy, UT
    April 17, 2013 11:28 a.m.

    For some reason we continue to cling to the idea that the U. S. has the infinite capacity to provide for all the third-world populations on the planet. Some obviously fail to see the connection between having millions more on welfare and subsidies plus exerting downward pressure on wages and job availability, and the fact that we now have OFFICIAL Federal debt of nearly $17,000,000,000,000 and annual spending exceeding income of over $1,000,000,000,000. Where do you think the money is going to come from, and how will that affect those of us who have to work and pay taxes? It's time for a heavy dose of reality, and stop penalizing those who actually obey laws, follow prescribed parameters, and then end up paying for the whole party.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    April 16, 2013 9:52 p.m.

    @Bill in Nebraska

    How people judge others is not relevant to how a court judges a person who has broke the law.

    Those affected by illegal immigration did not violate laws, yet they are the ones being punished.

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    April 16, 2013 7:59 p.m.

    SLars: Yes, to all your questions. I've known several families. I've faced it. I feel that until you have walked in their shoes and seen what they have to face then you are in no place to judge. I love how so many on this board are judge, jury and executioner. Forget about the justice you've handed out. Ask yourself what Jesus would do then act accordingly. He wouldn't in no way toss them out but since all of you have, forgive me for living and serving in the military.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    April 16, 2013 6:08 p.m.

    @Bill in Nebraska

    I am pretty sure illegal immigration is not the same as adultry or fornication.

    Even Christ advocated following the civil laws, "render unto Caesar..."

    I can have compassion and empathy for them but justice must be meet for illegal actions.

    The faith leaders are in no way telling us to usurp our laws.

    And in no way should their illegal behavior trump those that followed the law no matter what sad sack story they have.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    April 16, 2013 5:29 p.m.

    @Bill in Nebraska

    Have you known someone who had their id stolen? social security number? lost their job, and had their marriage end in divorce over money trouble, the number one cause of divorce? Had wages depressed? Had a career in construction, until business destroyed the ability to make an honest living? Have you ever had a bad business deal, or accident, only to find out the person is in the country illegally? Try walking in America's shoes. We have legal immigration, we should not honor illegal immigration. We have a fair way of bringing people here, 4.2 million in 2011 legally.

    People here illegally have committed multiple felonies. None of us are perfect, that is not relevant to punishing those who commit crimes.

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    April 16, 2013 5:05 p.m.

    I wonder how many of you have actually known an illegal alien or even could recognize one. Profiling is what many of you would do to even locate one. I have known some. I have met them in many different avenues of my work. Many are honest individuals that are looking for a better way of life than what they had. Many are malnourished, poor both temporally and spiritual, they are uneducated to a degree but they want something better. Many of them know that if they are caught they will have to go back. How many of you know that most times only a few have actual families here? They send their money back to their parents. Most try to not to do anything that brings attention to them. Unfortunately, some things such as partying and finding a friend leads many to get caught. They buy many times an auto that is basically good enough to get them back to work.

    As Christ said, "Ye that are without sin, cast the first stone." Are any of you perfect? If you were you wouldn't be here. You would have been translated a long time ago.

  • Republitarian SAINT GEORGE, UT
    April 16, 2013 1:57 p.m.

    Just what we need. More legislation from the federal government. Of course Orrin will jump right on this. His whole mentality is that the answer to every issue is more laws to restrict people. Last week he saw a child bleeding badly. His first reaction was to call his buddy Harry Reid and ask for an emergency session of the senate to authorize the use of a band aide. If you don't "get" my sarcasm, NO we don't need any more freaking laws.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    April 16, 2013 12:12 p.m.

    I have a plan to keep families together.

    First, we make sneaking into the US akin to breaking into Fort Knox.

    Second, we give deportees the option to have their family sent with them.

    Third, we take the welfare recipients that are able bodied and set up works programs so that they have to work for their benefits. They can be sent to farms, construction companies, or simply handed a broom and told to sweep the gutters in a neighborhood.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    April 16, 2013 9:14 a.m.

    Well heck yes, and by the way let's allow the families of the illegals who are already here bring in those family members who are still in the old country.

  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    April 16, 2013 8:50 a.m.

    Keeping families together? That's what this issue is all about? Really?

    Well then, why didn't you say this from the beginning?

    Unfortunately you didn't.

    The truth is this is all about gain...and I'll prove it.

    I'd be willing to grant the illegal immigrants amnesty on three very simple conditions.

    1. They can't vote for 25 years.
    2. They can't change religions for 25 years.
    3. Employers must pay them at least minimum wage.

    Now, if this is all about loving these dear brothers and sisters and making sure they're keeping their families together, then this is a fair compromise. They've broken laws and we're granting them a huge benefit. There needs to be a price.

    If you're offended by this proposal, my guess is that it would disallow the gain you were hoping for.

  • watchman Salt Lake City, UT
    April 16, 2013 7:34 a.m.

    The best way to preserve families is to stay in your home country until you can enter another country and raise your families legally. Otherwise you stand a chance of causing major problems for yourself and your family.

    America's immigration laws are not broken, they just have not been enforced. Proper enforcement over the past several years would have saved many costs to the taxpayers and many problems for those sneaking into this country.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    April 16, 2013 7:36 a.m.

    Lets give these immigrants the same considerations we have given ourselves.

    We don't throw ourselves off land we got through 'questionable' means. We stay on land we got through broken Indian treaties. We took land from Mexico through a war of agression, then allowed ourselves amnesty by paying money to Mexico, (call it a fine) to make it right.

    Let us at least give to these illegal immigrants or 'land grabbers' the same considerations we have given ourselves.

    Let us allow them to stay if they like us are willing to pay a fine to keep what they have taken.

  • wrz Pheonix, AZ
    April 15, 2013 9:44 p.m.

    Excellent post, SLars.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    April 15, 2013 7:18 p.m.

    Don't fall for it. Obama already gave immediate families waivers in January.

    I wish they had the compassion and humanity to tell their people to come here legally. Ignoring compassion for Americans with stolen IDS, stolen social security numbers, lost jobs and depressed wages is deplorable.

    No one is breaking a family, although apart, like many American families, they are still a family, nothing is broken except the law.

  • wrz Pheonix, AZ
    April 15, 2013 6:43 p.m.

    "Faith leaders call for immigration reforms that preserve families"

    Families can be preserved in other countries. The US is not the only country that can keep families together.

    Stop blaming America for breaking up families. We can see through your crocodile tears. If parents are here illegally, just pack the car with your kids and head home. It's not rocket science.