Brad Rock: Rutgers fallout could affect Utah's Hill

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  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    April 10, 2013 3:36 p.m.


    "That's kind of funny. If you go back and look, Dres didn't get an offer from UCLA. They didn't even want one of their own legacy recruits."

    Now that is funny. By that standard utah goes into ucla's backyard every year and get's players, the thing is ucla doesn't actually want any of them.


  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    April 9, 2013 8:47 p.m.

    "If you weren't aware that's called good recruiting, going into UCLA's backyard and getting a player. Now wouldn't you agree that is more relevant?"

    That's kind of funny. If you go back and look, Dres didn't get an offer from UCLA. They didn't even want one of their own legacy recruits.

    Utah out-recruited powerhouse programs like UNLV, UTEP and Nevada to get him. There's that Pac12 recruiting advantage kicking in.

    Delusional as usual.

  • One Angry Salebarn Worker Madison, SD
    April 9, 2013 4:53 p.m.

    Artifact A of the claim that Hill has a history of turning his head to misconduct:

    Rick Majerus

  • Papa Smurf UTE Herriman, UT
    April 8, 2013 5:39 p.m.

    Really Rock? This whole article should have been banned by your editor and never seen the light of day.

  • PAC 12 Punching Bag SLC, UT
    April 8, 2013 9:59 a.m.

    Obviously Ducky doesn't know what he is talking about. We just got our 5th straight top 25 recruiting class and not one single one of them was from Utah, none of them was LDS, none of them was rated lower than 4 stars, and all of them were African Americans. Combine that with our undefeated back to back PAC 12 championships and Rose Bowl wins in our 1st two years in the PAC 12 and it is obvious that we don't need Utah recruits, LDS recruits, or anyone on our staff that understands LDS culture.

    We're in the PAC 12 baby, recruits will come clamoring just because of that, I'm pretty sure we'll get better recruits than USC from now on.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    April 8, 2013 9:50 a.m.


    If you feel you have to respond then you obviously "take me seriously". LOL!

    As for your points, the LDS players are important to utah because the vast majority of top instate recruits are LDS and for utah to be successful they need to get their share of those recruits. The evidence is indisputable by the way, back when utah did not get ANY of the top instate recruits they were terrible and lost to BYU every single year usually by embarrassing margins. Now that they do get their share of those recruits they have had an edge on BYU head to head.

    Also utah offers just about every single out of state LDS recruit, and gets some of them. They had one Dline recruit from texas this year that said he came in large part because of the LDS institute program at utah and he was one of their top recruits.

    If you are so delusional that you think utah can succeed without LDS and instate recruits then I hope that utah tries to do just that. It won't happen as long as whittingham is there, but then he is far smarter than you, lint and uteology.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    April 7, 2013 7:31 p.m.

    @noperspective is funny to read your clumsy attempt at criticizing me while actually agreeing with me. LOL!

    As for this hilarious line:

    "Utah is where the state's football talent wants to be."

    Some of it, but the not the states top recruit, never. Those still go to BYU or out of state, just the facts.

  • Sweater In Rafters Franklin, IN
    April 7, 2013 7:20 p.m.

    My opinion...

    1. Hill was a good AD once but has been on auto pilot for years...hiring coaches (post Whitt and Majerus) has been a disaster...I hope K2 can start a new trend. So I could care less about the outcome...dig up the facts and make a is hard to believe the new AD would be worse than what Hill has done in the past 5 years.

    2. one takes the Duck serious...and any good debater would simply take the facts she presents and point out the obvious:

    a. Who cares what kids dream about. I could care less if a kid dreams of playing for Utah all his life. I hope fast, big and talented kids come to Utah. I dont even care if they dream...or sleep.

    b. If you need LDS kids to be successful in the PAC is USC and Arizona so good. Do LDS kids have that extra bone in their ankle? Or some magical power?...

    c. Why does the LDS "FORCE" only effect Utah? Was Alabama stacked with RM's last year and I missed that?

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    April 7, 2013 11:40 a.m.

    Your last two sentences says it all Brad. We think we can fix things by quickly identifying a villain and having him walk the plank. That's far easier and more satisfying than finding the systemic problems and fixing them.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    April 6, 2013 9:30 p.m.

    It's fun knowing that Utah's inclusion in the Pac-12 continues to eat at Duckhunter. It's equally entertaining to read Duckhunter's incessant predictions of doom for the Utes. Don't forget the Kruger brothers and Jake Murphy in your list of LDS kids. Utah is where the state's football talent wants to be. So, to answer your question, where would Utah be? How about right where they are now...looking down at BYU.

    CougFaninTX: "No explanation will suffice for allowing sexual abuse." Tell ya what, sport, do some digging to determine precisely what is being investigated. When you have the answer, come back to the DN boards and post an apology for being completely ignorant of the facts.

    April 6, 2013 6:37 p.m.

    Uteology, Duckhunter actually makes a good point on this one. Yes, the nationally highest profile guys the Utes typically get and produce are often not local or LDS, but the local players have been the core of the team, most of them with LDS roots, and the coaches that have embraced it have been successful, and the ones that didn't haven't. This is a big reason I think Hill made a good hire with Krystkowiak. He, like Majerus did, has emphasized the need to recruit local players, which Boylen didn't do as good of a job at, and local interest has started to pick back up in the program as a result.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    April 6, 2013 2:46 p.m.


    We get it. You anxiously hope and pray that Dr. Hill will be terminated. And why wouldn't you? You're so insanely jealous of Utah, and know that our A.D. had everything to do with getting Utah into the Pac-12. You also know that Dr. Hill's successes - coupled by the failures of Hale and Holmoe - had been the primary reason why Utah's athletic program had been trending upward since the 90s, whereas yours had either plateaued, or trended downward. You know that McBride equalized the fledging Utah football program to Edwards', and that was a credit to Hill. You know that Meyer > Crowton, another credit to Hill, and a black eye to Hale. You know that Whittingham > Mendenmidmajor.

    Learn to live with it. Even if Hill goes, Utah is still in the Pac-12, and you're still unwanted by any relevant conference. That'll never change. You're midmajors forever.

  • uteowl Sunnyvale, CA
    April 6, 2013 2:26 p.m.

    I find myself in a very odd position of agreeing with Duckhunter. A very odd position indeed, and a first. If we lose Hill and don't get someone that understands the importance of the LDS community and missionary program - in and out of Utah - we could very well find ourselves taking a step backwards. The only thing thing that could POSSIBLY mitigate that would be our membership in the PAC12; but that is not a given.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 6, 2013 1:02 p.m.


    How is that relevant, considering the kids I cited choose Utah regardless of what they "grew up dreaming of being"? For example, Dres Anderson:

    Anderson grew up in Riverside and attended plenty of UCLA [his father's former team] games as a kid..."UCLA was most definitely a team I was talking to, but Utah ended up being the place that I liked the most." -- Source: ABC News

    If you weren't aware that's called good recruiting, going into UCLA's backyard and getting a player. Now wouldn't you agree that is more relevant?


    Nope. They have to get is the best talent "regardless" of religion or race. But the focus has to be on African American recruits. Why? Because over 60% of the NFL and 75% of NBA are African American players.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    April 6, 2013 11:56 a.m.

    P.S. - Hill should be suspended until the investigation is completed. The incident should be investigated by an independent group. Alum are not independent.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    April 6, 2013 11:31 a.m.

    @Snack PAC

    "If, Hill knew about the abuse, then he needs to explain WHY he didn't do anything to stop it."

    Wrong! I'll defer judgment, but if he knew about the abuse, no explanation is needed. He deserves to be fired and banned from NCAA athletics. No explanation will suffice for allowing sexual abuse. Sexual abuse is so much more serious than what went on at Rutgers.

  • Flames6 North Salt Lake, UT
    April 6, 2013 11:28 a.m.

    Ducky is a fly on every wall and I'm impressed with that. His knowledge of what it takes in D1 football is equally impressive. But do you realize that no one outside the LDS faith grows up dreaming about being a Cougar ? That kinda cuts the demographic you talk about for the Utes in half for BYU. Because, as we have seen for the last 15 years, the best of the best that stay in Utah go to play football for the Utes with very few exceptions. And every year, it is evident that the Utes pull away from BYU in talent slowly but surely. And FYI, Stobart and Fassel's teams were loaded with talent. They just weren't good college coaches.

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 6, 2013 10:16 a.m.

    Highland, UT

    Yet your team can't beat the Utes.

    3 in a row and 8 of the last 11.

    Pathetic really.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    April 6, 2013 8:12 a.m.


    The reality you utah "fans" need to face is that utah is not a dream for any kid growing up anywhere outside of SLC. The university of utah is not a more desirable destination than anywhere else in the pac12 with the possible exception of wsu. For utah to sustain any success they have to embrace the LDS missionary and polynesian communities, with the polynesian community being just a subset of the LDS community as the vast majority of the polynesians that attend utah being LDS.

    It may hurt your feelings to know that utah is not a destination on its own that can stand up to the other places in the pac12, but your feelings don't matter. Yes utah "fans" need to pray chris hill survives this, they need to pray whittingham can get some improvement out of his team because if those two go, and you guys get another chuck stobart or jim fassel, who ignores the local culture and tries to out recruit usc, ucla, and oregon, for out of state talent then the utah program will be an abject failure. utah will never compete with them in that way.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    April 6, 2013 8:03 a.m.


    utah "fans" inability to accept reality is one of the things that keeps me coming here.

    Tell me how successful was the utah football program before mcbride took over and embraced the missionary program and also the polynesian community? How successful would the utah football program be if they returned to a state of antagonism towards kids going on missions? How successful do you think the utah football program would be without a coach, and A.D., that understands this states unique LDS culture and embraces it?

    How successful was utah's football program before they had an A.D. that undstood this who hired a coach that understood it?

    If they lose chris hill, and the new A.D. does not understand it, and they lose whittingham, and the new coach does not understand it, do you really think they can sustain any level of success?

    You yourself pointed out that blechen never even knew who the utah program was until the sugar bowl. Do you think utah would have ever made the sugar bowl without the coaches and A.D. that understood the LDS culture and allowed athletes to live it?

  • EJM Herriman, UT
    April 6, 2013 7:50 a.m.

    The phrases Dr. Chris Hill and coverup? Are you guys kidding me? Chris Hill is one of the most upstanding guys I have ever known. He would throw anyone out if he knew they were acting against the best interests of the university. It's amazing how we tend to throw people under the bus so easily. When he gets exonerated I hope all of you apologize.

  • HolladayUte Holladay, UT
    April 6, 2013 7:05 a.m.

    Makesure those are ducks you're shooting and not geese, because you sure don't seem to have your facts sraight as to Whittingham's or Chris Hill's record.

  • Christy B Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 5, 2013 11:49 p.m.

    Just like the AD at Rutgers, if Dr. Hill knew about the abuse happening within his swimming program, and didn't do everything he could to stop it, he deserves to be fired.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    April 5, 2013 11:45 p.m.


    You're so quick to find fault, that you conveniently ignored half of Duckhunter's statement,

    "Let's face it, no non Utahn is GROWING UP DREAMING of being a ute."

    How many of those kids you cited actually GREW UP DREAMING of being a Ute some day?

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 5, 2013 11:30 p.m.


    Let's face it, no non Utahn is growing up dreaming of being a ute. None of them.


    Maybe but winning on the national stage does seem to help:

    Brian Blechen
    Moorpark (Calif.) High School (non-LDS)
    "The first time he became aware of the Utes’ program was when Utah won the 2009 Sugar Bowl." -- SL Trib

    And here's a couple more non-LDS that sure thought Utah "is the place":

    Joseph Smith (CA)
    Kenneth Scott (CA)
    Dres Anderson (CA)
    Travis Wilson (CA)
    Anthony Denham (CA)
    Justin Thomas (TX)
    Eric Row (TX)

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    April 5, 2013 11:20 p.m.

    Sadly, some Utah fans are willing to ignore Utah athletes being physically abused, rather than see those responsible held accountable.

    IF, the good doctor didn't know that abuse was happening in one of the programs he oversees, then he needs to explain WHY he didn't know.

    If, Hill knew about the abuse, then he needs to explain WHY he didn't do anything to stop it.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 5, 2013 11:09 p.m.

    Fact is as of today there is no proof that Hill was involved in any cover up. If he was then he deserves to be fired until then I'll just the Rock and Ducky continue entertaining us:

    "Until utah embraced LDS players they were one of the worst football programs in D1."
    -- Duckhunter

  • charlie24 Sandy, UT
    April 5, 2013 9:09 p.m.

    Sadly, at every opportunity, so many Y supporters look for any hope that Utah may possibly fall back toward their level. To wish something bad for one of the best leaders in our state to improve your position is quite sad. Then again, we have also seen this behavior from Utah supporters when the Y has any issues.

  • Wayne Rout El Paso, TX
    April 5, 2013 6:29 p.m.

    I'd like to get Bobby Knight's opinion on this issue.

  • gonefishn Salt Lake City, UT
    April 5, 2013 6:08 p.m.

    @jd tractor
    I am simply urging patience and knowledge of FACTS. Your comments about a "potential cover up" and "bogus" investigation only poison the well. Hopefully if you are ever accused of something you are treated with more fairness.

    Thank goodness you have chimed in to demonstrate to us all what a level headed critical thinker you are. This is a serious discusion to undertake and you, as always, use it as opportunity to take things to the gutter and turn it into a BYU Utah deal. Brilliant, bravo, thank you so much for your contribution.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    April 5, 2013 5:10 p.m.


    One of the "investigators" is a former trustee of the university and alumni of the year. Doubting his impartiality is simply a matter of critical thinking, something utah "fans" mostly lack when it comes to this matter.

    As for hill himself, well if he is run out it is utah "fans" worst nightmare come to life. The moderate success utah athletics has had over the last 20+ years is because hill actually understands that for utah to be a successful athletic program they need to embrace local (LDS) talent as athletes and coaches. Let's face it, no non Utahn is growing up dreaming of being a ute. None of them.

    If hill goes then whittingham will not be far behind because there is no guaranty a new A.D. will understand what utah has to have to be a success. And if whittingham gets run out for his mediocre record by a new A.D. there is no guaranty the new coach will understand what it takes have even the moderate level of success utah has had. Until utah embraced LDS players they were one of the worst football programs in D1.

  • JD Tractor Iowa City, IA
    April 5, 2013 4:38 p.m.

    @gonefishn: "potential cover-up" is not the same as "cover-up". I'm siding with the families and the abused athletes, I'm sorry that hurts your feelings enough to accuse me of leading a lynch mob. But I felt the same way about Penn St., Rutgers and I'm real furious with Auburn. Sorry but your anger is not justified towards me. Plus we've seen enought of "indepedent" investigations to know they are bogus, especially when the two individuals have been indentified by name and their previous affiliation with Utah athletics is known. C'mon, reality check here fishn.

  • Bomar22 Roberts, ID
    April 5, 2013 4:29 p.m.

    Rock's analogy of comparing the GM CEO and a car catching on fire doesn't wash with me. Hill, obviously was aware of the allegations against his swimming coach and stuck with him, just as the Rutgers AD did. They were both hoping the incidents would go away without any one paying the consequences.
    In this day of cameras everywhere, one must be very careful.

  • AlottaBalatas Centerville, UT
    April 5, 2013 4:05 p.m.


    I totally agree! Once again, Rock and the D-News care more about sensationalism more than substance. The truth will fall on either side; let the investigators do their job.

    The real irony . . . the bloggers are complaining about Utah;'s handling of the Rugby Team as too harsh. Here, Hill was too soft. Same paper, similar articles, different stance. Criticism on both sides. I guess, it's true, everybody has an opinion . . .

  • gonefishn Salt Lake City, UT
    April 5, 2013 3:36 p.m.

    @JD Tractor
    As a Ute fan, if wromg doing ocured than deal out the appropriate punishment. You on the other hand have your pitch fork and torch in hand. Why don't you just wait until the report comes out by the supposed "ardent" U supporters before you claim a cover up.
    What if Hill factually did nothing wrong and the report backs that up? You have already labeled it a "cover up" way to keep an open mind.

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    April 5, 2013 3:04 p.m.

    No, no it won't.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    April 5, 2013 2:16 p.m.

    It has to be tough being a parent these days. If you act on behalf of your child too late, then you're irresponsible and selfish. But if you're up in arms too quickly, you catch the disapproval of old Brad, who knows lots of coaches, most of whom are just trying to administer a little Hannity discipline to make up for what the parents lacked.

  • JD Tractor Iowa City, IA
    April 5, 2013 1:47 p.m.

    I agree with Rock. If Hill covered up abuse he's gone. However, he is being "independently" investigated by ardent U supporters, which only means another potential cover up. I hope the parents keep up the heat, they know what happened and are very angry.