BYU's past NCAA success still makes millions for Mountain West Conference

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  • JmThms Henderson, NV
    April 10, 2013 9:57 a.m.

    Chris B,

    Lets once again set the table on this issue. The PAC did not invite BYU to join because the powers-that-be in the PAC are Birkenstock Bigots. They simply won't invite a religious oriented institution into their hypocritically self-conceived 'diversity' club. Especially in light of their perception of the role of the LDS church in the prop 8 thing. Regardless of the lies or excuses the PAC uses. Now, the University of Utah is a pretty good school, with a pretty good set of athletic programs. And they have some pretty honorable people. However, there is a massive inferiority complex among so many of those associated with the University of Utah vis a vis all things BYU, and it unfortunately manifests itself by constant attention by the likes of you in BYU forums such as this. So Chris, a periodic resetting of obvious facts like this is a good thing, and I will provide it periodically for the likes of you. No doubt you will continue to be a presence here. By the way, it still remains true that I have never once been in a University of Utah oriented discussion forum. See the difference?

  • uteBusters Park City, UT
    April 8, 2013 2:20 p.m.


    "If you're going to list the over all head to head though, you should include the over all NCAA Tournament record of the programs. Right?"

    Not if it's not relevant to the current state of the programs.

    During the Dave Rose era (2006-2013):

    Rose - 209-66(76%), 6 NCAAs, 2 NITs, 4 conference championships, 8 20+ win seasons, 7-8 NCAA/NIT, 12-3 versus Utah, including 7 in a row, and 11 of the last 12

    Utah - 116-137(46%), 1 NCAA, 1 conference championship, 1 20+ win season, 0-1 NCAA/NIT, 6 losing seasons, 3-12 versus BYU, including 7 straight losses, and 1 win in the last 12

    The reality is, Rose has built a solid NCAA tournament quality program that is poised to make some real noise in the NCAA when the 2013 and 2014 recruiting classes are back from missions.

    Utah has been a train wreck for most of the last decade and, as usual, will be "rebuilding" again next season after losing most of their key players from another losing team.

  • Don't Feed the Trolls Salt Lake City, UT
    April 8, 2013 9:38 a.m.

    All you BYU fans crowing about your success, well, Utah has PAC 12 money now, and our teams are teams are the best dressed losers in town!

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    April 6, 2013 12:40 a.m.


    While I agree with the premise of your post--that the U has been more successful in the tournament than the Y--the stats you cite for both teams would probably be more meaningful with some context.

    It wasn't until 1975 that there were 32 teams in the tournament. So some of the Sweet Sixteen appearances you cite for both teams were achieved without winning a single game in the tournament. Similarly, a number of Elite Eight appearances achieved by the U were likely the result of winning only one game in the tournament.

    For many years, only the conference champion of each conference was invited, leading to frustration and criticism of the tournament similar to what's happened recently with the BCS in football. It wasn't until the '80s when the field went to 48 and then to 64 that the tournament gained it current popularity.

    Let's hope football sees the light and the 4 team tournament expands quickly to 12 (top 4 get a bye in the first round).

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    April 5, 2013 5:55 p.m.

    Cedar Hills, UT

    So I accept that as an acknowledgement once and for all that a national championship is in a realm all it's own, not to be relegated to the wastebasket by jealous wannabes.


  • Res Novae Ashburn, VA
    April 5, 2013 1:27 p.m.


    The difference is that the Davies suspension Phantom refers to was for something that wouldn't get a moment's attention at virtually any other university. It was a BYU standard, and BYU held Davies to it. No one outside of BYU (and perhaps the usual naysayers here) would have cared one whit if BYU had swept it under the carpet, which is why it made national headlines. People may not have understood BYU's standards, but they generally respected BYU's willingness to enforce them despite the impact on the season.

    Contrast that with a swim coach investigation for abuse, the suspension of the entire rugby squad for undisclosed reasons, a suspension for drunk driving the wrong way on the highway, a suspension of a star player for multiple drug violations, and the booting of a player for spousal abuse. Each of those incidents would create criticism anywhere, and they are clearly black eyes (and I'm not saying BYU has never had its own incidents).

    By the way, the role of pretending to be a BYU fan on this site is already filled admirably by Ernest T. Bass and Mildred in Fillmore.

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    April 5, 2013 1:15 p.m.


    If only, if only...

    If you're going to list the over all head to head though, you should include the over all NCAA Tournament record of the programs. Right? Let us review.

    byU: 27 appearances, 7 Sweet 16s, 3 Elite 8s and O Final Fours

    Utah:27 appearances, 17 Sweet 16s, 6 Elite 8s, 4 Final Fours, 1 Runner up and 1 NCAA Tournament Championship.

    The cougs HAVE made a strong run as of late as the Utes have been down. The fact still remains though that it would take the cougs another 25 years of the Utes being down for them to even catch up to the success the Utes have already had.

    With the Utes on the rise, it will never happen.

    April 5, 2013 11:19 a.m.


    "I see. when BYU takes corrective action and suspends players, this equals gaining national respect."

    Who said that?

    The national media that aired admirable reports and wrote admirable articles on BYU's handling of the situation equals gaining national respect. Open your eyes and ears.

  • GO_COUGARS! Provo, UT
    April 5, 2013 8:54 a.m.

    @ Phantom

    "Even so, BYU gained national respect for the way it handled the situation."

    I see. When BYU takes corrective action and suspends players, this equals gaining national respect. When Utah does the same thing to players on a club team, this equals a huge black eye for Utah athletics in the eyes of the nation.

    I am learning so much.

  • alternate Salt Lake City, UT
    April 5, 2013 8:07 a.m.

    I guess the Chris B's vacation is over. He disappeared during BYU's post season run after some strong talk as to how BYU had and was going to fail.

    But now he is back and has really helped the DNews generate comments about BYU basketball and the MWC. Not sure how Utah and TCU footbal got into the mix but then Chris is a very tunnel vision guy.

    Not sure I understand all the tier stuff, but I would say his comment about BYU being a 2nd tier school is one of his great fantasies in life.

    BYU has a rich history and each year is increasing it's national brand. As this school year winds down, the excitement is already building for next year. Should be a fun year with nationwide exposure in numerous sports, many of which are not even played at other schools in the State of Utah.

    Opps, sorry I almost forgot that volleyball, softball and baseball are still going strong!!

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    April 5, 2013 2:01 a.m.

    @ Chris and other U fans

    Y'all make me smile... It's the end of Basketball Season, it's Tourney time, Teeples is simply pointing out the Financial distribution of money for teams and conferences who are invited to participate in these Tourneys and y'all want to start shouting about your 2 BCS Bowl games again... y'all are like 3 year olds... "What about when we played in a BCS Bowl a few years ago?"... That's just laughable...

    The thing about Sports and Revenue Distribution that you really should be concerned about however, is your Market Share and the number of bodies you are able to put in front of a TV Screen when your team is playing... The fact that BYU beats you badly in every TV market (even the one where your University is located) ought to be a concern... That's what truly drives Revenue... You guys like to poke fun at ESPN's honeymoon with BYU as an Indy but the truth is ESPN wouldn't even touch the U if it were they who had gone Independent... Nobody watches your games... Heck, not many even go to them.

  • phantomblade Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 4, 2013 11:41 p.m.


    The perception emanating from Provo is of a coach that is building a consistently good program that would have a serious Final Four contender in Jimmer's senior season, if not for the unfortunate loss of their starting center just before the playoffs began. Even so, BYU gained national respect for the way in which it handled the situation.

    As for making deep runs in the post season, BYU is 7-4 in the post season in the last four years. Remind us again how long it's been since the Utes won a single post season game.

    During the Dave Rose era:

    209-66(76%), 6 NCAA tournaments, 2 NIT tournaments, 4 conference championships, 8 20+ win seasons, Consensus National Player of the Year

    116-137(46%), 6 losing seasons, 1 NCAA tournament, 1 conference championship, 1 20+ win season

    And let's not forget, BYU signed its best recruiting class ever in 2013.

    Overall, BYU leads the series 149-145, has won 7 in a row, and 11 of the last 12

    Regardless of conference affiliation, it's indisputable which school has the better basketball program.

  • Christy B Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 4, 2013 11:33 p.m.

    Sorry, but my little sister seems to have a blind spot when it comes to Utah basketball; perfectly understandable considering the rundown Utes have been a train wreck for most of the last decade. It's been so long since we won a post season game, that most of the kids on the hill don't even remember it.

    Chrissy's obviously having difficulty accepting the fact that the Utes aren't even a 2nd tier program. We're so bad, we won't even schedule the Aggies and Wildcats, since being swept by BYU, USU and WSU would further cement our status as the worst team in the state.


  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    April 4, 2013 9:26 p.m.

    Why are you people responding something to Chris B? Just ignore his comments and do your thought w/o him. He is just trash talking with silly things. JUST IGNORE HIM! Even Utah fans has questioned him in past.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    April 4, 2013 8:30 p.m.

    @ Onefever

    In only one sport, and even Boise was a shadow of its former self this past season.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    April 4, 2013 7:59 p.m.

    @Chris B

    " . . . being a second tier team in a good conference is better than being a first tier team in a bad conference."

    Are U saying that Utah is a second tier team? Wow! What an admission.

    I will always be more proud of my school than the conference they play in.

    I'm sure BYU makes money from Zags and St Mary's appearances in the NCAA the last two years, but to think they get a piece of the pie for the years they were not in the conference is crazy.

    Why do U make up untruthful rumors that BYU will drop athletics? There's a much higher probability that Utah will get dumped from the PAC12 for poor performance than for BYU to curtail athletics. The ONLY thing that would make BYU drop sports is if the NCAA required Sunday play.

  • Onefever Abilene, KS
    April 4, 2013 7:22 p.m.

    Guys, doesn't matter because literally every team from Utah would lose to Boise State. Even Utah with its BCS backing.

  • staypuffinpc Provo, UT
    April 4, 2013 7:13 p.m.

    I'd be interested in knowing if BYU benefits in the same way from WCC teams making NCAA appearances. If so, they would've come out of that overall deal better off due to the Zags and the Gaels NCAA appearances over the past 6 years.

  • NevadaCoug Overton, NV
    April 4, 2013 6:44 p.m.

    BYU made a ton of money for the WAC and the MTNWest conferences. That certainly isn't to say that other teams didn't pull in money. But if you look at the totals brought in by each school, I would bet that BYU was at the top.

    Yes, Utah and TCU brought in money for their BCS appearances. And, yes, those totals are quite a bit of money. But you can't just look at the total amounts brought in over the years. You also have to adjust for inflation.

    For those who knock the idea of BYU being a nationally prominent program: no, they are not Notre Dame. No, they aren't Ohio State, or Michigan, or Duke, or North Carolina, or a lot of schools. What they are is the only non-BCS school with a true national, or even world-wide, fan base. And I would argue that they are one of the few programs with a non-bandwagon national fan base.

    And they are one of a handfull of non-BCS schools to win a national title in either football or basketball in the last 50 years.

  • Res Novae Ashburn, VA
    April 4, 2013 4:26 p.m.


    "I do what I routinely do and that's to paint the picture of reality, not one rooted in myth/spin..."

    There's some unintentional irony for the rest of us.

    You can point to Utah's Sweet 16 appearance as the equalizer between Utah and BYU's basketball programs, but that would be "rooted in myth/spin." Utah is on its third coach since Majerus left. The Sweet 16 appearance was using his recruits. Things have been on a downward trajectory since, with 14-15, 11-19, 18-15, 25-10 (losing to a 12 seed in the first round), 14-17, 13-18, 6-25, and 15-18 records between 2005 and 2013. Not to mention getting obliterated by BYU head-to-head. THAT is why BYU is considered a much better program right now, Sweet 16 appearances aside.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 4, 2013 4:04 p.m.


    And this all takes-place during recent years when the perception emanating from down there out of utah county is one of "National Prominence" and out of UTAH Basketball, extreme misfortune....However, reality tells us that byu hasn't even remotely come close to this perception of their own-making regarding success/achievement, nationally, when they realistically have achieved nothing, whatsoever, beyond the individual-accolades/-hype surrounding jf....Reality confirms just the complete-opposite to be reflective of the truth when measured by today's standards-of-success on the National Stage, and this is just simply what success any given school achieves in The Tourney, itself.

    The fact is, byu doesn't make deep-runs when it goes dancing....In 17 of 27 appearances, they've exited winless....They're currently the National Leader in NCAA Tourney appearances without ever reaching The Final Four at 27....This is their lack-of any significant post-season success, in a nut-shell....Heck, they've only ever won a conference tourney on 3 different occasions ['91, '92 & '01].

    They're even digressing these days in their regular season consistency/losing more frequently at home, as well.

  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    April 4, 2013 3:30 p.m.

    The author never did say that only BYU made money for the MWC. The article is simply about the fact that the MWC is still receiving money from the NCAA because of BYU's NCAA Tourney appearances even though BYU is not in the conference.

    Admission standards at Air Force are the same as they are at BYU. I have seen recruiting letters and information from both schools.

    Why would they fell stupid for leaving the conference. Even without the money talked about in the article, Independence is and has been much more profitable than staying in the MWC. On top of that, they are now the benefactor of any money distributed through the WCC because of past teams' appearances in the Tourney.

  • Res Novae Ashburn, VA
    April 4, 2013 3:32 p.m.


    Put that Ivy degree to work spotting your red herrings. You state that BYU gained from other schools' success in the MWC. Sure, that's how conference revenue-sharing works. Since BYU won a majority of MWC championships across all sports while in the conference, by your standards BYU benefitted other programs more than the other way around. But this article was specifically about benefits from NCAA b-ball tournament appearances, not all sports, and not all sports championships. It's clear BYU left money accrued from tournament payouts on the table by leaving. You call that stupid, but perhaps BYU has other, long term objectives in mind that more than offset that money. Like no longer having to share. It's a tradeoff - life's full of 'em.

    Air Force athletic recruiting wasn't mentioned, but since you have, I doubt you'll find many who'd argue against the challenges of academy recruiting. But after the academies, I'd put BYU athletics right up there with recruiting challenges given academic qualifications, the honor code, and missions. And AF beating BYU occasionally despite different recruiting pools? I expect no less from determined officer-athletes.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 4, 2013 3:26 p.m.


    "@ Chris B.

    'And teams like Utah and TCU carried the conference in BCS football money.'

    How come you don't mention all those years BYU and Utah were in the WAC and MWC? You know those years when BYU was winning most of the Conference Championships. All those years all Utah did was make sure they got their share of the money. You don't want to hear about those, just the 2 years Utah played in BCS games.'

    What your analysis here is missing, is what the precise dollar-amount in actualy money-generated/-shared by each school, byu decades ago, in the time-frame you referenced ['70s/'80s], and UTAH more recently ['90s-Current].

    I look forward to seeing what your assessment entails, ONCE it's actually completed.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    April 4, 2013 3:20 p.m.

    Salt Lake City, UT

    And Yale is for reading comprehension. WAC and MWC championships are not the unit gifts that keep giving. Not sure what an MWC championship is worth, but whatever it is, pretty sure BYU has cornered the market on those too.

    Maybe if your school had been Harvard. Are you sure it wasn't Dartmouth?

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 4, 2013 3:15 p.m.

    I don't understand why this article is just now surfacing, relative to the date of the original article it references.

    I know the byu fanbase utterly despises when I do what I routinely do and that's to paint the picture of reality, not one rooted in myth/spin....Herre we go--

    Just imagine the wealth byu-basketball in recent years w/their Tourney-appearances could've generated, IF they weren't, in fact, The Poster-Child for Post-Season Futility and actually consistently won games, once there, thus regularly making deep-runs?

    Post-Majerus, UTAH has, even in the face of their struggles relative to adequately replacing their Legend, precisely the same, exact number of Sweet 16s byu has since their sole Elite 8 run, led by Ainge, more than 3 decades ago and only 1 less Tourney-Victory [of course, not inclusive of their play-in game win against Mighty-Iona played merely for the right to get straight whooped by Marquette]....This Sweet 16 occurred under rose and was w/byu's most celebrated-player in their program's history on their roster in his senior year....Sweet 16 = [2] Tourney wins.

    [To be cont'd]

  • Magna Ute Fan Magna, UT
    April 4, 2013 2:19 p.m.

    COme on people. Don't feed the troll. He's no Utah fan. He's just here to stir the pot.

  • BYUSU Wellsville, UT
    April 4, 2013 2:17 p.m.

    @ Chris B.

    "And teams like Utah and TCU carried the conference in BCS football money."

    How come you don't mention all those years BYU and Utah were in the WAC and MWC? You know those years when BYU was winning most of the Conference Championships. All those years all Utah did was make sure they got their share of the money. You don't want to hear about those, just the 2 years Utah played in BCS games.

  • Christine B. Hedgefog Salt Lake City, UT
    April 4, 2013 1:48 p.m.

    Chris, if you were any funnier we (including MOST Utah fans) wouldn't be able to handle it. Jimmy Fallon beat you to "The Tonight Show" but maybe you should send in an audition 'comment' sample to CBS. Surely David Letterman will be retiring some day. Maybe you could get his gig. You're certainly laughable enough to get it.

    Won't be long now until we're reading about your Rose Bowl "mark it down" guarantees again. That'll be quite a feat even for your self described 2nd tier PAC boys (although based on the first 2 years of your membership you'd be hard pressed to claim anything more than bottom tier in your BCS conference).

  • Y_is_for_Yale Salt Lake City, UT
    April 4, 2013 1:19 p.m.

    In full disclosure, I'm not a Mountain West follower (my school was founded in 1701, before the country you're living in was even a "country"). That said, I can't help but notice the blind spot in the author's thinking if he concludes that BYU only makes millions for the Mountain West and not vice versa. If I recall, Colorado State, Utah, Boise State, New Mexico, TCU, SDSU, UNLV, and Air Force have all won Mountain West Championships in one sport or another, and BYU likely benefited from those victories (and publicity), as well. Moreover, comparing a school like BYU to, say, a school like Air Force (where admission standards are much more stringent for athletes), is like comparing apples and oranges (and, yet, schools like Air Force still beat BYU). Finally, if BYU is making all this money for the Mountain West, don't they feel stupid for leaving the conference? It would be akin to the Mormon Church making millions for Notre Dame. Who's smarter then?

  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    April 4, 2013 1:04 p.m.

    Chris B,

    Please give us an exact dollar amount to back up that statement. I believe that between tv revenues and bowl revenues, BYU dwarfs Utah even with the BCS money. But there is no way of putting a value on what part of the tv money BYU was responsible for other than to look at the current tv contract that BYU has. Although, there are no details there because BYU will not release them.

    Which brings us back to your off-the-handle statement.....

  • sky2k1 Provo, UT
    April 4, 2013 12:42 p.m.

    @Chris B.

    Spot on my friend. Very interesting that during the end of basketball season that they wrote an article talking about basketball, and how BYU made money for their former conference. Maybe if the Utes had played post season basketball recently, or if we were in football season and this was a football article and if the MWC was still making money off of your BCS wins, then just maybe you would be included.

    Keep thinking that they're out to get the U amigo.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    April 4, 2013 12:18 p.m.


    The article was trying to hide the fact that Utah has given more to byu in football money than byu has given to utah in basketball money.

    Very interesting Utah was left out indeed.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    April 4, 2013 12:10 p.m.

    @Real Bass

    You should worry more about why the tds wasn't invited than why Utah was.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    April 4, 2013 12:01 p.m.

    The so called "cellar-dweller" owns the tds. Pac12 membership means a long, bright secure future for the Utes. What the haters are in denial about is that it's a very real possibility that if independence doesn't work, the tds administrators will do away with intercollegiate athletics. Give us a couple of years to settle into the benefits of the Pac12 and you haters will be eating your hateful, jealous rhetoric.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    April 4, 2013 11:58 a.m.

    @ Chris B

    Nice to see Utah getting all the PAC 12 money. That's all they're getting, by the way, since they don't hit .500 in basketball and share the basement in football.

    Interesting that Utah wasn't mentioned as benefitting from all the BYU generated MWC receipts. Seems they were a member of the conference, too.

    How's everything working with the swim team and the rugby team at the U? You have heard about them, haven't you? What "tier" are they in, relatively speaking?

  • ImaCaMan Oceanside, CA
    April 4, 2013 11:54 a.m.

    Truth, it's working just fine. You'll see that first hand this fall.

  • Real Bass Idaho Falls, ID
    April 4, 2013 11:43 a.m.

    How old are you chris. over the long term utah hasn't carried anything but BYU's water. You got invited to the pac because every house needs a doormat. Don't you recall that they wanted Texas and company and you were the boobie prize. Andy you've filled your role admirably, as conference members have walked all over you!

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    April 4, 2013 11:06 a.m.

    And how is that Pac 12 move working for you ChrisB....other than being a cellar-dweller!

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    April 4, 2013 10:27 a.m.

    And teams like Utah and TCU carried the conference in BCS football money.

    byu is a second tier team, regardless of the conference they are in. And being a second tier team in a bad/no conference is worse than being a second tier team in a good conference. For that matter, being a second tier team in a good conference is better than being a first tier team in a bad conference.