'We're not the wild and woolly West,' governor says
Not happy with this veto. I will now support another candidate to replace
Herbert in the primaries next time around. This is a blow to the 2nd Amendment,
I was a Herbert supporter but no longer.
@Irony Guy:"None of these wild gun nuts has ever even tried to answer
my 2A question: what is the meaning of 'well-regulated'?"It's opposite of poorly regulated which is akin to the Democrat party.
To those who favor no infringement of any person to carry any kind of weapon
anytime - You can be the first to pass out guns and ammmo to everyone in jail or
prison, or all the people in mental institutions, or who have fragile mental and
emotional health, or all the children on playgrounds.No infringement does
mean everybody doesn't it?And surely it means any kind of weapon? If
you're strong enough to carry it, you may?Enough of this
chest-pounding and saber-rattling. Good grief. I can tell you that I do
not feel safer knowing that any yahoo can carry a gun around in his pocket.
Those guys in their tall trucks tailgating me when I'm going 65 in the slow
lane? He's got a gun, along with his belligerent attitude? No thank you, I
do not feel safer.Somewhere there has to be some common sense.Thanks
Governor, for showing that.
I support gun rights, but the governor is right on this. Our concealed permits
serve a purpose. To be frank, I'd like to see some type of gun proficiency
skill be a prerequisite for the permit. I would feel much better knowing those
who choose to conceal are proficient with a weapon. I wish those with mental
illness were prohibited from getting a weapon aw well.
I wonder how much of his decision was based on the state "fees" for
Concealed Carry drying up?The state makes a lot of money on fees
which would probably dry up if this became law. It probably was the main reason
for the veto.
As usual, we see the division of the people regarding any constitutional right.
I wonder why the Constitution is never mentioned. Is everyone so unsure of what
it contains that they fear to bring it up in conversation?
Thank you, Gov. Herbert!
@UtahBlueDevil:"WRZ - either it is wide open.... everyone gets to bear
arms... no limitations what so ever.... or there are limitations."That's for legislators to decide... not you, not me, not the courts. The
Founding Fathers wrote the Amendment... and they also wrote how to amend the
Constitution should there be a need in succeeding generations."You simply can't pick and choose parts that only fit your
agenda."Who's picking the parts? The 2nd Amendment leaves
no parts to pick. It plainly says 'shall not be infringed.' If you
(or anyone) starts picking parts the Amendment is violated. And the Supreme
Court has no choice but to rule that way. It cannot create law or change the
Constitution. Only the Legislative Branch can do that."Be
really careful what you ask for. You might get exactly what you want, and a
whole lot of what you don't want. It's called the law of unintended
consequences.Don't blame me. Blame the Founding Fathers... and
blame the US Congress for not solving the obvious problem with the 2nd Amendment
you cite. Congress refuses mostly because they're loathe to tackling tough
Good job to the Governor. I hope the Legislature will use their time to deal
with real issues that really improve lives. This bill was a waste of their
limited time in session.
WRZ - either it is wide open.... everyone gets to bear arms... no limitations
what so ever.... or there are limitations. You can't say "no
limitations for me", but this class of people, what ever they might be,
felons, are excluded and don't have the same rights. You simple can't
pick and choose parts that only fit your agenda. If you truly believe that
there are no limitations, you have to go all the way.Be really
careful what you ask for. You might get exactly what you want, and a whole lot
of what you don't want. It's called the law of unintended
consequences.You are about to legally arm a whole class of people
who care a lot less about the sanctity of life than you... who will not have
that mental pause deciding to I pull the trigger, or not.It goes
along with screaming fire in a crowded movie house... just because you can. Or
pornography.... if we want to go down the road of free speech. If we want to go
down the road of literal translation, be really prepared for decency laws of all
kind to be stricken down.
I consider myself a pretty hard core right winger and I'm definitely pro-
2nd Amendment but I actually applaud Gov Herbert for this veto. I think it was
bad legislation. I don't have a concealed carry permit and I'm glad
others do but I don't really feel the need to carry a concealed weapon
except in my vehicle. I think I should have the right to carry a concealed
weapon in my glovebox for example without a permit but I don't like the
idea of anyone with no permit being allowed to carry concealed.
@joseywales:"It's a little comforting knowing those carrying now
have at least been through CCP class, but it needs to get better as I
said."How did you come by the 'comforting?' Do people
who carry weapons say 'look folks, I've got a gun but not to worry, I
have a permit to hide it?' I don't think so. You don't know who
has a gun and who hasn't. Nor do you know who has had CCP training and who
hasn't.@UtahBlueDevil:"It doesn't say minors
can't bring arms to school. It doesn't say you can carry a gun, except
on commercial aviation."What it does say is that 'the right
of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.'"You really ready to go down the path of strict interpretation of that
clause."If you don't go down the path of strict
interpretation then the whole thing (Constitution) is open to a plethora of
interpretations.If there is to be other than a strict
interpretation, it's the job of the US Congress to modify the Amendment to
permit amplifications. Until then, the 2nd Amendment stands.
None of these wild gun nuts has ever even tried to answer my 2A question: what
is the meaning of "well-regulated"?
@jdub1942:"I think it would be a deterrent to crime, because more than
ever criminals would have to wonder 'if I mess with this person, does
he/she have a gun?'"How you gonna know if he/she had a gun?
Permits are not displayed on the shirt/blouse.Requiring background
checks/permits is meaningless because the 2nd Amendment says something like...
'the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. If
a person fails a background check or is refused a permit... he/she can still
pack. The Constitution says so.What part of 'shall not be
infringed' do people not understand?
This state is amazing. A socially and fiscally conservative governor makes a
common sense decision on a controversial bill and he is immediately pilloried as
a RINO, anti-2nd Amendment, wimpy Democrat who will never receive another vote
simply because he doesn't share their concealed-carry-without-permit
@booshway - based on your comments, there should be no restrictions on what
"arms" anyone should one, because the constitution doesn't say
convicted felons cant have weapons. It doesn't say minors can't bring
arms to school. It doesn't say you can carry a gun, except on commercial
aviation. You really ready to go down the path of strict
interpretation of that clause. Because you can't have it both ways. You
cant say this right has no limitations, then complain that some extremist group
in the area has RPGs or SAMs. If you have want to claim a very literal
interpretation - so that it benefits what you want... be prepared for that
precedent to be applied to all facets of daily life.Jefferson wrote
"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American
people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting
an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,'
thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." Taken to its
limits, the state could not afford any religion any benefit or allow religion in
any aspect of government life.Lets be careful before we run to
Common sense prevailed. Good job, Governor Herbert. Thank you.
As a gun owner with a conceal permit, good on ya Gary. Had he signed this bill,
the lack of training would have become a larger issue than actually carrying.
I will back this bill when you show me where it saya you have to have the
governments permission to carry. "Shall not be infringed" is the key to
the whole issue.
I'm a gun guy and have let these forums know it. I do agree with those that
say that we should tighten up the CCP. At my class, there were guys and gal
fumbling with the gun like they were scared of it. It scared me, because if you
treat a weapon that way, only bad things can happen. I would like to see some
more handling and gun care involved in the CCP classes. A tougher test for sure.
As much as I love guns, I agree that this law needed some more discussion and
I'm not convinced it was a good idea anyway. Having anyone just putting a
pistol in their pocket scares me. It's a little comforting knowing those
carrying now have at least been through CCP class, but it needs to get better as
I said. I know criminals don't care about laws, and they will
do what they want, but that doesn't mean that we should have a law so that
people who are unfamiliar with guns, can just carry as well. I know they can
open carry, but at least then, you can avoid them.
Spineless! Absolutely spineless. At least any questions I had about just how
"progressive" Gov. Herbert really is are now perfectly clear. He has
proved himself to be just another pandering politician unwilling to stand
against the lies and false rhetoric of the liberal left. Utah deserves better.
Thank you Gov. Herbert. We need to be trained and the concealed carry law and
training is working. Don't mess with it.Angie
Thank Goodness for moderation.
Too bad that the governor vetoed a bill that recognises what the U.S.
Constitution says - the right to bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. Nothing in
the Constitution says anything about or allows for licenses, permits, fees,
training (maybe the well-regulated part), restrictions or exclusions of any
Disappointing. There is no evidence that covering a gun that can now lawfully
be openly carried will lead to greater gun violence. I am a responsible citizen
trained to use guns in a hunter's safety course, who would like to carry a
gun without creating a stir among others and I am not a CCP holder. I would
would like to see a common sense extension to the already existing open carry
laws. It seems this veto and the surrounding rational are based on fear of
everyone all of the sudden carrying a gun rather than on evidence from Vermont,
Alaska, Wyoming or Arizona. I can't respect a decision based on fear.I will be less likely to support this politician based on this veto.
Happy with the Govenor this far but sorely disappointed in this Govenor on this
veto. He missed an opportunity to truely stand up for freedom here. Will vote
him out next election. Bad move Govenor!
Good news, there are too many crazy's out there. It will save the legal
conceal carrry holder some worries about having to defend himself from one of
these "road rager" type. Another good move by a very good Governer.
Folks, uit slamming the NRA, they are the best gun safety advocates we have.
THANKS Governor Herbert for doing the right thing with your veto.
Herbert said. "I don't like the fact that it divides our state."Vetoing the bill did not remove that division.Making open
carry advocates carry obvious did not remove that division.Taking
the side of gun control nuts will not remove that distinction.G.
Herbert has made a moral and political mistake.
I get so tired of the rhetoric and fear-mongering. Why on earth would any of us
welcome a bill that encourages more guns out in the public arena? I would think
that it might matter to law abiding citizens that law enforcement was not in
favor of the bill. Their job is hard enough without them having to wonder how
many people are packing and why. I still wonder how anyone can identify the good
guys from the bad guys when you are caught in the crosshairs of either one. It
is like playing a giant game of chicken, wondering who is going to pull the
trigger first. Does this mean that the only way to stay safe is to pack a gun? I
sure hope not. I think that I would rather take my chances than feel obligated
to carry a gun. What kind of society do we live in when fear is our dominant
The Governor vetoed the bill after objections from law enforcement (among
others), so I must ask: if we're in the business of making it harder for
ordinary citizens to protect themselves in order to make it easier for police
officers to protect themselves, then why do we have police officers in the first
place? They seem like a privileged class living off of our vulnerability.As I see it, we should first determine how best to empower ordinary
citizens to protect themselves -- the safety of law enforcement completely aside
-- and only after we have done that should we address the safety of law
enforcement with the remainder. If not, then they're cutting into our
principle, so to speak, and that defeats the purpose.
I understand the governor's office received thousands of phone calls and
emails and other message both for and against the veto of this bill.Will DN provide a tally of those? How many Utah citizens supported and how
many opposed the veto?That is very critical information.
As an avid sportsman and hunter, I applaud the Governor's veto. Thanks
That was a needed veto.
Three cheers for Governor Herbert.Hip Hip Hooray!Hip Hip
Hooray!Hip Hip Hooray!Now what is wrong with our state
Way to go, Governor Herbert!
So much for representing the people. That's the problem with our Gov
representatives. They think they need to protect us and look out for us, not
represent us. The fact that the SLC Sheriff has already said he will enforce
unconstitutional dictates from the White House over his sworn duty to defend the
constitution shows just how broke our system is. Utah is not as far right as
people think. The people are just asleep - "All is well in Zion".
As John Eddy stated above, laws that put criminals on higher ground than law
abiding citizens is not common sense. Does the public know that open carry
is already permitted? Somehow they feel safer? If the law is changed, MORE law
abiding citizens will carry. Do you think more criminals will carry because the
law permits them? Since when do criminals regard laws?How many
times must it be said that criminals will conseal no matter what the laws are?
Does that resonate with anyone?Current law gives criminals the upper
hand. THIS is common sense.
Gov. Herbert said, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"Wonder if that saying goes for vetoing any legislation that would move the
Draper Prison from the POint of the Mountain as well?
"The criminal element already carries concealed without a permit. The law
abiding citizen is at a marked disadvantage, therefore, the system is broken.
"Wonderful logic.... if people are doing wrong things, lets
legalize those things so everyone can do what the bad people are doing. And exactly how many people in the state of Utah were randomly shot by
bad people last year? This "leveling of the playing field".... was
needed because of what need? Is there a chronic murder problem where people are
being attacked with gun wielding bandits on the way to coctco?Maybe
there is.... I never particularly feel threatened ....
Thank you Governor!!!! It was absolutely the right thing to do.
I wish Herbie would have advised us that he would be voting against 2nd
amendment issues when he was campaigning for office.We seeem to have
more than a few RINO's in Utah who are opposed to the 2nd amendment.Too bad our RINO Republicans are afraid of taking a stand on the
principles they campaigned on!
He did the right thing. If the legislature overrides his veto, they will have
done the wrong thing. I'm glad they put the issue out there to be discussed
but his veto should settle it because he represents the will of the people and
Well done, Governor Herbert. Thank you.
let the legislature vote and I hope they over ride the veto, this governor is
too wishy washy for my tastes. He needs to represent what the majority of
Utahans want. Seems to me that the vocal minority is against this bill while
the majority that do want it don't speak out because they are
conservatives. It is a conservative's nature to let things pass, but
things need to change. Liberals base their arguments on emotion while
conservatives have facts on their side. Liberals believe everything the
mainstream media propaganda machine publishes. In essence they let that
propaganda do their thinking for them.
It's good that we seem to elect level-headed governors. What I don't
understand is how a majority of the legislators actually passed this law. They
must be afraid of the gun lovers and ignore the vast majority of their
constituents who oppose this law.
It seems like a good move to me. I hope my legislator does not vote to
Pathetic governor. Go join the weak-kneed, whimpy Democrats who will sell their
souls for a pot of message.
by the Governors logic then Wyoming Arizona and Alaska must have blood just
running in the streets. the only problem with the law was it was not an absolute
constitutional carry bill. now lets see if the veto proof majority that passed
it can step up and override the gov .
my guess is 2/3 of legislature will override the veto
The criminal element already carries concealed without a permit. The law abiding
citizen is at a marked disadvantage, therefore, the system is broken. Additionally, and perhaps more importantly, a potentially tyrannical
government, because of regulatory infringements and dossiers, know who are the
first that can easily become disarmed. If I am I tyrant, I would be happy with
the Governor's frame of mind.Yeah, yeah, I know. Conspiracies
in the USA and especially in Utah do not exist and tyranny would never happen in
this era of peace, but what if?
I've been very impressed with the levelheadedness of Gov. Herbert lately.
If people like Herbert and Chris Christie stay around I might just vote
Republican again in the future.
Good for him. We need common sense when it comes to gun control laws.
sometimes are leaders are so far right i want to move away. our govorner gives
me hope for utah and common sense.
Thank you Governor Herbert! You will continue to get my vote in the future.
Thank you, Governor Herbert!
@DN SubscriberI've heard Mrs. Lockhart interviewed, on conservative
and "liberal" radio shows. I'm not sure she's the insane
person you are looking for. She actually seems to use common sense, so
she's out. Same with Chafetz, while he's a conservative, I don't
think he's a nut either. Mike Lee probably would have, Rob Bishop would
never run, he would actually have to have a position on an issue instead of
collecting campaign donations from military contractors. IDK about Mia, she
might actually fit the bill.
Never thought I would say this. But, good work Gary!!
I'm encouraged by the veto, but still nervous about the prospect of an
override. Utah faces many grave and serious challenges. Our legislators should
stop wasting time with sophomoric "message" bills. Wouldn't the
state be better off if we focused this intense energy and enthusiasm on
something like education?
Good move, Gov Herbert. The right decision, the right opinion, the right
action. We need more responsible gun ownership and carrying, not less. This
bill was clearly a cry from the nra's leader, a dismal man with no
worthwhile goals. Your veto of this terrible bill is welcome to me.
If this bill does pass, I know I will be packing. I do not have a concealed
weapons permit; however, I have been thinking about getting one for the sole
purpose of protection. Since this bill would legally allow any Joe Schmo to
carry a gun, you better believe I would too.If this bill does pass,
the requirement to notify law enforcement whither or not a driver is carrying a
concealed weapon better remain.
Too bad the people of Utah do not have the iniative to bring this to the ballot.
I don't agree with much of what he does, but this was a great thing.
Probably his best moment so far as Gov.
Bravo! Sensible government prevails over reactionary message bills.
Yay. Hope other Republican officials recognize that the majority of the
Republicans are not as Right-Wing as some vocal members are.
Sounds like we need to elect a governor who will actually support gun rights,
like they promised in their campaign.Gov. Herbert is a good guy, and
has been pretty good, but he is wrong on this one and perhaps has become a
pandering politician afraid to stand on principle and more flexible to appeal to
"moderates" who stand for nothing.Our system IS broken. We
infringe on the inherent right of self defense by mandating a permit, something
not required every in Vermont, or in Alaska for the last 10 years, or Arizona
for the last 3 years or Wyoming for 2 years. Although the usual opponents
scream about shootouts over parking spots and similar hysteria, actual
experience in those states prove that such fears are unfounded.I bet
that a Governor Rob Bishop, or Jason Chaffetz, or Mike Lee, or Mia Love would
have signed this bill, or even a Gov. Becky Lockhart! Let the campaign begin to
replace Gov. Herbert.
Herbert will never get my vote again.
EXCELLENT NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Now let's tighten up on
requirements for training for the CCP so that criminals will not only have to
wonder if the person they're planning to mess with has gun, but does he or
she actually know how to use it?
He's got a point with the "If it ain't broke don't fix
it" however I wish this bill would pass. I think it would be a deterrent to
crime, because more than ever criminals would have to wonder "if I mess with
this person, does he/she have a gun?"
Bravo, Governor Herbert!