Two For Flinching,Don't you realize that SOS is heavily
considered when doing the rankings? That's why an undefeated team can be
ranked outside the top 5, and it also explains why some 1-loss teams are ranked
lower than some 2-loss teams. So in 2011 BYU was a top-25 team despite their
weaker SOS, not because of it.
"It's so funny how BYU fans act as if this last season define's
Utah's past, and coming 20 football seasons."Yeah,
it's so funny how Utah fans act as if the 2004 and 2008 seasons defined
Utah's past, and coming 20 football seasons. It is pretty ridiculous,
don't you agree?
Two For FlinchingBYU was good enough to beat #19 Utah State and #46
Georgia Tech, plus 5 other teams to qualify for a bowl.Stop whining
because U weren't good enough to beat #44 Arizona and/or #56 Washington.With only one win against a team in the Top 60, it's easy to see
why you weren't even ranked in the Top 60.
twofer"It's hilarious that you continue to tout the final
records and rankings, because they are a direct consequence of the schedule each
team played."No, it's ridiculous that you fail to
understand that final rankings are based on a combination of SOS AND final
records.Finishing 8-5 against the #63 SOS is better than finishing
5-7 against the #41 SOS.Sorry to burst your crimson bubble, but SOS
is MEANINGLESS, if you don't WIN.#11 Florida State(66), #13
Ohio State(60), #14 Clemson(61) and #19 Utah State(97) all had similar or worse
SOS than #26 BYU(63), but were all ranked higher because they had BETTER RECORDS
than BYU.Utah's only wins - #26 BYU, #78 California, #104
Washington State, #156 Colorado, #171 Northern ColoradoLet's
face it; U were lucky to pull off a win against BYU, because the Cougars were
the only decent team you beat all season. Stop whining because you weren't
good enough to beat #44 Arizona or #56 Washington to qualify for a bowl.
@ TrueBlueThe team with five built in wins obviously has the better
chance of qualifying for a bowl. You are assuming that teams ranked 26 through
95 are equal. Baylor and Michigan are not comparable to Western Michigan. Utah
had less cupcakes and most of their "middle" teams were still in the
upper half of the college football rankings. (UCLA, ASU, Arizona, UW, USC,
BYU).It's hilarious that you continue to tout the final records
and rankings, because they are a direct consequence of the schedule each team
played. Next year BYU has stepped up their schedule and you will see a drop in
the number of wins. Deep down I'm sure you know that already though.
2ferWrong!Which team has a better chance of finishing
with a better record?Team Y: which plays FIVE Top 25 teams, FIVE
bottom 25 teams, and TWO middle 70 teamsorTeam U: which
plays TWO Top 25 teams, TWO bottom 25 teams, and EIGHT middle 70 teamsIf both teams are middle 70 teams, Team Y can pencil in FIVE
losses and FIVE wins, which means they have to split their remaining two games
against equivalent-level teams to break even.Team U can pencil in
TWO losses and TWO wins, which means they have to split their remaining eight
games against equivalent-level teams to break even.In other words,
both teams have similar chances for success, so the team that actually finishes
with the better record would be considered more successful against the
competition they faced.It's laughable that you choose to obsess
about SOS, while completely ignoring final records and final rankings.#26 BYU(8-5) - #63 SOS#61 Utah(5-7) - #41 SOSSomeday our
little friends on the hill will finally figure out that it doesn't matter
how tough your SOS is, if you DON'T WIN!
@ SwoopWrong. Playing higher quality teams week in and week out
equates to playing a tougher schedule. That is reflected in the rankings as
Utah's SOS is ranked 20 spots higher than BYU's.
2fer"Overall, Utah played higher quality teams week in and week
out."But, BYU played a tougher schedule.---------UteologyBest case scenario, the Utes would have finished 6-6
with loss to SDSU in their bowl, playing BYU's schedule. If you're
going to claim a win instead of loss playing USU at home, then you have to
accept a loss instead of a win playing BYU on the road.Worst case
scenario, the Utes would have lost to both BYU and USU to finish 5-7, just as
they did playing their own schedule.-------------"As
far as SDSU? Well, except for TCU we haven't had a problem beating anyone
from the MWC since 2008."You also haven't had a problem
losing to 10-loss teams. Sorry, but SDSU would have stomped U.
@ Snack PACBYU also played teams ranked 161, 165, 174, 179.
Overall, Utah played higher quality teams week in and week out.
Naval VetPhiladelphia, PA"** Interesting factoid:
Utah's Basketball program outpaced the Y's financially -- attendance
notwithstanding. Utah grossed $5.9M, and netted $2.3M, whereas the Y grossed
$5.9M, but netted only $172K."That's because going to the
Dance is expensive, something Utah hasn't had to worry about for a while.
WON84PLANO, TX"I don't see BYU fans flocking to
comment on articles about the Utes"Seriously? You don't
read ANY Ute articles then. Be realistic man!!
@Snack PACIf Utah had played BYU's schedule, the Utes would
have lost to Utah State, San Jose State, Notre Dame, Boise State, Georgia Tech,
and Oregon State, and San Diego State,-----------Nope.
Utah State needed OT to win at home, I think we could have handled them at RES
20-17. Just like I think BYU would have lost at USU this year. Against Oregon State we lost on the road 21-7 while your best defense in
history got punked 42-24 at home. As far as SDSU? Well, except for
TCU we haven't had a problem beating anyone from the MWC since 2008 (4-1 vs
BYU and 3-0 vs SDSU). So we would most likely go 8-5, just like
"I applied and got IN. I spent my Freshman year at the Y before opting to
transfer. That means I rejected the Y; not the other way around. Fail."Naval - This has consumed your life, posting on these boards to try and
get back at BYU. Tell us what they did to you please.
"No wonder there's so much anger and hate. Even when your rival has
it's worst season, you still can't beat them. So then you quickly use
the old "one game doesn't define a season" gag. I guess that, and
not being in a BCS conference (being on the outside looking in) generates a lot
of hate and animosity. It sure is shinning through on these threads. I love
it!"Spokane, this discussion is being had on an article about
BYU. I don't see BYU fans flocking to comment on articles about the Utes,
or anyone really as there are usually 1-3 comments on those articles. So, you
tell me who has the hate and animosity?
"The Runnin' Utes will be runnin' all the way to the bank as the
University of Utah's football team posted $21.2 million in revenue and a
$9.8 million profit. The BYU football team also netted some healthy earnings
gaining $15.6 million in total revenue for a $4.89 million profit."Total figures aside, why is nearly 50% of Utah's revenue profit compared
to around a third of BYU's?
UteologyTypical biased Utah spin that focuses only on SOS, while
completely ignoring wins and losses.It's interesting that you
used Sagarin's SOS rankings, but chose to ignore Sagarin's team
rankings.After include both SOS AND wins/losses in his calculations,
here are Sagarin's final rankings for 2011 and 2012.2011BYU #34 10-3Utah #39 8-52012BYU #26 8-5Utah #61
5-7You also also chose to completely ignore the fact that BYU played
FIVE ranked teams, while Utah only played TWO.If Utah had played
BYU's schedule, the Utes would have lost to Utah State, San Jose State,
Notre Dame, Boise State, Georgia Tech, and Oregon State, and San Diego State, IF
the Utes had managed to be bowl eligible by beating all of the teams U should
have beaten, which is hardly a given since Utah has proven that they're
capable of losing to anybody.Bottom line, Utah would have been 6-7
or 5-7 playing BYU's schedule.
Phantomblade,I don't know where you got the $415 million state
appropriation figure. I reviewed my numbers and actually the U has a $2.5
billion annual operating budget and gets an annual $211 million appropriation
from the State depending on the mood of the legislature. That is 8% of the
U's operating budget. The legislature will always appropriate some money
to the U to keep their foot in the door because they want a flag ship university
and they get this for a bargain. That $211 million appropriation is returned to
Utah's economy in terms of tax revenues and jobs many times over. The U is
now tied with MIT in creating private companies that are a result of research
and development done at the U. The State of Utah would literally go into an
economic depression if the U was closed down. Yes, bemoan that $211 million
dollar expense all you want but it is the best return on investment that the
State of Utah has.
@Just the FAX"Overall since BYU's Independence/Utah's move
to PAC 12" ...Is irrelevant since the SOS is vastly different
between the teams. For example:2011Utah SOS #49 ... 8-5BYU SOS #90 ... 10-3TCU SOS #86 ... 11-22012Utah SOS
#41 ... 5-7BYU SOS #63 ... 8-5TCU SOS #16 ... 7-6Are you
telling us if Utah and TCU, the same two teams that own BYU, played BYU's
schedule that they would have a worst record?
Spokane UteSpin it however helps you sleep at night:AP/Coaches Top 25 FinishesBYU 18Utah 7AP/Coaches Top
15 FinishesBYU 10Utah 3AP/Coaches Top 10 FinishesBYU 4Utah 3AP/Coaches #1 FinishesBYU 1Utah 01964 Utah UR/141977 BYU 20/161979 BYU 13/121980 BYU
12/121981 BYU 13/111983 BYU 7/71984 BYU 1/1 National
Champions1985 BYU 16/171989 BYU 22/181990 BYU 22/171991
BYU 23/231994 BYU 18/10, Utah 10/81996 BYU 5/52001 BYU
25/242003 Utah 21/212004 Utah 4/52006 BYU 16/152007 BYU
14/152008 BYU 25/21, Utah 2/42009 BYU 12/12, Utah 18/182010
Utah UR/232011 BYU UR/25
USU reported $5,881,831 in revenues and $5,881,832 in expenses for the same
period 2011-2012 for which the Utah and BYU figures are reported. (Although BYU
has a different financial year--2 January to 1 January instead of 1 July to 30
June for the state schools, but they cover the same football season).
Yeppers, two years defines the future of Utah's existence in the PAC 12.
Just like it did when Arizona and Arizona State joined the conference. I wonder
how many screen names the Utah Haters post under? The rant is always the same.
Let's compare top 10 finishes and BCS bowl victories over the past 10
years, shall we? Of course not, let's spin it. Say top 25. Say we go back
30 years. It's always the same old song and dance. Utah has won 8 out of
the last 11. Let's spin it, the games were won by a total of x amount of
points. If a Utah fan says the sky is blue and the grass is green, the Utah
Hater will say, not when it's over cast and not in Kentucky. It's
really quite amussing. Especially when they get all bent out of shape. Case in
@ toosmartforyouYou ask why TCU vs. Loiusianna Tech viewership is
relevant? The statistics from that game were taken from the 2011 Poinsettia
Bowl. BYU vs. San Diego had many, many less viewers than the previous year,
which would (from a BYU fan's perspective) feature two much less
"nationally prominent" teams like TCU and Louisianna Tech. 29% less
viewers than the previous year's game. And 38% less viewers than the 2010
game. Go ahead and chalk this up to "just one bowl game",
but either BYU doesn't have the national draw you fans think they do, or
you are all just bandwagon fans and jump off at the first sign of
trouble....which I guess would have been the loss to Utah this year.All the studies out there on this go ask people "are you a BYU fan".
Do you think a Mormon in Florida would say "no" to that question? No,
even if he hasn't seen a game ever. The church affiliation is what drives
these inflated study results.
ToosmartforU,You brought this topic up so I will respond. I know
you and some other people in this state do not like the "attitude" of
the U so you don't want one penny of tax money going there no matter how
small a percentage. Well, I am very active LDS and have been all my life and I
have never complained that a lot of my tithing money goes to support BYU
including the J. Rueben Clark Law School that puts out a lot of ACLU attorneys.
In fact, at least two of the past Executive Directors of the ACLU for Utah are
BYU law school graduates including the one who fought the Church and Salt Lake
City over the Main Street Plaza issue. Not everything that happens at BYU with
my tithing support makes me happy but I am not complaining. You brought it
up.Phantomblade,The fact is every state sponsored higher
education institution in Utah receives a bigger percentage of support from the
state than the U does. UVU inparticular is very high. It is a matter of public
record. Yet, the U benefits this state by being an economic power house.
Spokane Ute"I guess... not being in a BCS conference (being on
the outside looking in) generates a lot of hate and animosity. It sure is
shinning through on these threads."Being on the outside looking
in at what, a perennial conference bottom dweller?Get real. NOBODY
envies conference bottom feeders, regardless of which conference they're
in.As you may have noticed, BYU fans are hardly angst-filled because
the Utes have won a couple of recent head-to-head games. 5 of the last 7 games
during the Bronco/Kyle era have been decided by a touchdown or less in the
closing minutes of the game or in overtime.Hardly the type of
"domination" that Utah fan humerously continue to spout.The
fact that BYU has finished in the Top 25 FIVE of those seven seasons, versus
only THREE Top 25 finishes for the Utes, shows which program has really been
more successfu, overall.btw, how was the attendance at the couch
potato chip bowl?
shots and dunks. There could be so much more but it will never happen. Anyway
I don't really care anymore.Gary
Had BYU not gone independent and stayed in the Mtn West, they would be operating
at either a loss or a very modest profit according to these stats.They were wise to go independent for not just exposure, but financially wise
Spokane Ute"It's so funny how BYU fans act as if this last
season define's Utah's past, and coming 20 football seasons."What's so funny about it - the last two years are Utah's only
two years in the PAC 12? Why shouldn't they define Utah's potential
for the next 20 seasons? See Arizona post 1978.Here's a little
history lesson:1964 - after dominating their previous conference,
Utah won its 1st WAC championship, cracked the Top 20 for the first time, won a
bowl game, and beat BYU, again. Utah wouldn't play in another
bowl game for 28 years.1965 - BYU won its 1st conference
championship and beat Utah for only the 4th time in history. By the
time Utah played in its next bowl game in 1992, BYU had won a National
Championship, a Heisman Trophy, finished in the Top 25 TEN times, won over a
dozen conference championships, and had beaten Utah 18 out of 20 years from 1972
to 1991.Things can change quickly.
Many others have made the obvious comment of how the Utes are running away from
the Cougs in revenue and profitability even in years when they are not receiving
a full share of conference $$$. This is nice. But the real story here is how in
the world the Jazz can manage to lose 16.4 million!! WOW! Greg Miller is really
running the organization into the ground.
you get players for free. that's why.
@navallintYou continue to lose arguments, quit before you fall
further behind.BYU has a "profitable" Athletic Program from
top to bottom. Utah does not.(Looks like BYU's superior
MBA program has paid off).BYU consistently has 8-10 Top 25 athletic
programs, year after year.Utah does not.BYU cranks out
All-Americans in just about every single sport, year after year. Utah does
not.BYU far outpaces Utah with Academic All-Americans as well.BYU is Top 25 in Football and Basketball attendance, year after year.Utah is not.BYU outdraws Utah in every Olympic Sport, save
gymnastics.BYU is a Tier One University Academically, Utah is
not.Latest USNWR rankings BYU #68 Utah #127 (10th in the Pac)Every BYU game is seen Nationally and Internationally.Utah's are
not.The problem with Utah is that even with their new (unearned)
revenue, they are now and will continue to be dead last in athletic budgets and
facilities in the Pac.Utah fans still think their competition is
with BYU. It is not.It's with their Pac 12 brethren from now
on.Cal, UCLA, Washington, ASU, Arizona all have major facility
upgrades underway.Utah simply can't keep up.
justthefax- empirical evidence is a big concept and difficult for some to
understand the importance of it...ute4ever- this is just my
experience, but I've lived all over the country and have easily found more
people who pay attention to, or at least know something about the sports program
at BYU. Given, many of these are church members, but many are coworkers,
neighbors, and just general friends who are sports fans in general. The only
people I've ever met that follow the U are direct graduates, or people who
have moved from SLC that intentionally hate BYU and follow Utah by default
(fortunately these are in the minority). I know this isn't cold-hard fact,
just my experience, but it's just as meaningful as spouting that BYU
doesn't have a larger fanbase without at least having experience to back it
Navalvet- your 8:13 and 8:39 posts plus your response to me are all combative in
nature (combative is synonymous with fighting). You're trying to spin
anything you can to prove that Utah is somehow superior. Did BYU really make
more money? I don't know, nor do I really care...some reports say they did,
some say they didn't, depends on how you want to twist it. However, this
is the entire point of my sarcasm that appears to have been lost. Does it
really matter what one website says compared to another? Data can be turned in
so many different ways, and it all comes back to the original point I was trying
to make...Ute fans hate BYU because of the perceived arrogance. When Ute fans
express their displeasure (sometimes in the extreme), BYU fans often respond in
a way that justifies the Ute hatred, and the cycle continues. No matter how you
spin the story of who's better, prettier, or richer, it all comes back to
drumming up the same ageless argument. Trust me, I'm not "frantic and
emotional", but it is entertaining to watch some so desperately defend their
honor while attacking the other.
It's so funny how BYU fans act as if this last season define's
Utah's past, and coming 20 football seasons. The ironic thing is, that as
bas as Utah was; they still beat the little guys from down south. No wonder
there's so much anger and hate. Even when your rival has it's worst
season, you still can't beat them. So then you quickly use the old "one
game doesn't define a season" gag. I guess that, and not being in a BCS
conference (being on the outside looking in) generates a lot of hate and
animosity. It sure is shinning through on these threads. I love it!
Spokane Ute"Exactly what poll was BYU ranked in?"2011BYU(10-3) - #25 Coaches, #26 AP, #34 SagarinUtah(8-5) -
unranked, #39 Sagarin2012BYU(8-5) - unranked, but bowl
winnerUtah(5-7) - unranked, and no bowlOverall since
BYU's Independence/Utah's move to PAC 12 basementBYU(18-8)
- one Top 25 finish, two bowl winsUtah(13-12) - no Top 25 finishes, one
I am amazed at the time ute fans have to come up with detailed statistics and
reports they pull from who knows where just to prove a silly point.Do you guys have jobs?
ute4ever"BYU does NOT have a wider fanbase than Utah." - dozens of marketing studies during the last 50 years directly refute
that claim."An average LDS person will say they are a BYU fan,
even if they've never watched them play."- do you even one
shred of imperical evidence to support your own personally biased opinion?"If BYU has a national presense (outside of Mormons), then explain
why the Poinsettia bowl had the lowest viewership ratings since 2006?- no explanation needed; the viewership for one bowl game doesn't prove
anythingMormon doesn't equal BYU fan, but that doesn't
negate the fact that over 2/3's of BYU's students come from outside
the state of Utah and tens of thousands of BYU alumni live all over the country
and throughout the world. And that doesn't even include the tens of
thousands of Mormons who are BYU fans, even though they've never attended
school at BYU.
@ ute4everNice spin job, even for a Ute partisan.Tell
us, how many fans watched the Utes play in a bowl game this year????? You really think any Pointsettia Bowl is going to draw better than a Navy vs
SDSU match-up, played in San Diego? And you think TCU vs Louisiana Tech is
relevant to this discussion?Using that logic, those poor Utes were
about zero this year, weren't they, in bowl game fan attendance.If you think BYU doesn't have a larger fan base than Utah, except in
selected areas of Salt Lake City, you need to do some research.And
yes, Utah is making lots of money, which is good, because their team is not.
DutchmanIf the UofU doesn't need the $415 million it received
from the State of Utah in 2012, I'd suggest returning it to the state so
those funds can be used by Utah State, Weber State, Utah Valley, Southern Utah,
and other state colleges and universities who actually need and appreciate the
investment Utah is making in their schools.The truth is, you have
absolutely no proof whatsoever that "Not one dime of tax payer money goes to
fund, operate, maintain or build anything having to do with the athletic
programs, teams or coaches at the U."
@midpackmajorExactly what poll was BYU ranked in? Sorry Fella, but
teams that go 8-5 don't get ranked.
@ Naval VetAnother comment about being "frantic and
emotional?" Get a new tag line as that one is worn out and thread-bare.@ DutchmanNo, I don't particularly feel better that my
tax money, which is not optional to pay, goes to support the University of Utah
in any fashion except medical research. The reason: they always are copping an
phoenixStop confusing the PACy-WACer's "superiority"
delusion by introducing actual results into the discussion - the "conference
of champions" bottom dwellers are confused enough as it is.They
still don't understand how being ranked and winning a bowl game are
superior to being unranked and playing in the couch potato bowl.
Can we put a longtime myth to rest today? We'll call it MythBusters,
DesNews style?BYU does NOT have a wider fanbase than Utah. An
average LDS person will say they are a BYU fan, even if they've never
watched them play. So a Mormon does NOT equal a "fan", despite what BYU
fans perpetuate.If BYU has a national presense (outside of Mormons),
then explain why the Poinsettia bowl had the lowest viewership ratings since
2006? Explain why this years bowl was down in viewership by 29% from last year
(TCU vs. Louisianna Tech) and 38% from 2010 (San Diego State vs. Navy). Also
please explain how there were 400,000 more people watching Arizona vs. Nevada in
the New Mexico Bowl and there were 600,000 more people watching the Famous Idaho
Bowl (Utah State vs. Toledo). If BYU has such a national following, why
don't they watch the most important game of the year? Answer:
Mormon does not equal a REAL fan....just one that will claim they are a fan when
they really can't answer the question "Who is BYU's starting
There are several comments here lamenting that more of this athletic generated
money is not allocated to the student athletes. It will interest all of you to
know that under the guidance of PAC 12 commissioner, Larry Scott, the conference
is laying the ground work to increase student aide to a level referred to as
"The Full Cost of Attendance". When this is implemented it is estimated
that aide to student athletes will increase anywhere from $2,000 to $5,000 per
student athlete above the cost of a scholarship. Granted, not a professional
salary nor is it meant to be but an improvement. When implemented, other
programs outside of the PAC 12 will have to follow suit in order to compete for
Naval VetIt's interesting that some of the biggest BYU haters
are students who were either rejected by the Y when they applied or simply
couldn't cut it after they were admitted, academcially or otherwise.They usually end up creating some excuse to blame BYU for some imaginary
wrong committed by BYU to justify their hatred.Here's some
advice - lose the hatred; it's not healthy.Find something to
cheer for, instead of spending your life cheering against.
DaveKnowsWhatsUp:"...how can real data show the real story???
Yet somehow Navalvet and ChrisB find ways to still fight it."What am I fighting? Do you have a cut-&-paste exerpt from me to refute,
or were you just being frantic and emotional?"I guess if I would
have applied to BYU and gotten denied, I'd be mad too."I
applied and got IN. I spent my Freshman year at the Y before opting to
transfer. That means I rejected the Y; not the other way around. Fail.
@Hawkeye79Actually USC is 3rd and Arkansas is top 10 on there...
that's not final ESPNU fan rankings, that's the preseason fan rankings
@Hawkeye79That ESPNU fan rankings is based on the list of choices they
were given and for some reason the choices they were given were the 30 teams in
the preseason rankings (consider that Auburn is on there too).
Naval VetInteresting factoids:The PACy-WACers still lag
FAR behind their big brothers/sisters in overall athletic success.BYU's women's soccer and volleyball teams both made deep runs in the
NCAA tournament during the fall, and BYU's men's volleyball (ranked
#2) and men's indoor track (ranked #14) are both nationally ranked as their
seasons are just getting started.In the Directors' Cup Division
I Fall Standings. BYU finished #16; Utah was UNRANKEDBYU Men's
CC finished #6, Women's Soccer finished #5, and Women's Volleyball
finished #9BYU Football also won their bowl game.And in
facilities, it'll take the U years just to match the facilities already in
place at the Y.More revenue doesn't mean much if it
doesn't produce better results on the field.
Wait wait wait, how can real data show the real story??? Yet somehow Navalvet
and ChrisB find ways to still fight it. And what exactly are we still
fighting...yes, the Utes get up for a game and beat BYU but have mediocre
seasons otherwise, BYU makes more money and has a wider fan base, but BYU will
never have the same perks as the PAC10+2. We know all this. Besides,
isn't the fact that BYU is richer, more popular, and allegedly snobby about
it the reason the Ute fans hate BYU to begin with? Then of course, BYU fans have
to respond self-righteously which only justifies the Ute hatred? Ah well, I
guess if I would have applied to BYU and gotten denied, I'd be mad too
College football players are no more exploited than interns, medical residents,
and a host of other people that have to earn their stripes.
What's even more impressive is that the Utes make nearly $2MM in profit for
every football victory more than double BYU's paltry $1MM profit per
victory. I only see than disparity continually growing.
@bluto: if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to see it....does it
make a sound? Translation to football = If BYU plays a nobody at 10:15 Estern
time and nobody tunes in to see it....do they actually play?The ONLY
thing BYU fans have in their war chest of arguements is that "my team is on
ESPN". One problem with that boys. If the only time your exposure lead to
eyes on the TV set were in your losses, does it really do any good? I
don't think the exposure in losses to Utah, Boise State, Oregon State, and
Notre Dame did anything for the reputation of BYU. All other games were wins
against pathetic competition. Gloat about exposure, but it hurt BYU.There is a reason the Poinsettia Bowl viewer ship was down 30% from previous
years, and it wasn't because BYU is a national draw. BYU fans need a real
fact check when it comes to what weight your team holds in the "national
eye". BYU is no more a national power for 1984 than Colorado is for 1990.
Both national champions in those years. I guess BYU = Colorado.
It's awesome being part of the PAC 12. Of course the revenue is great,
especially the $20+ million coming from the TV contract. Personally, I like to
be able to watch Utah on the PAC 12 channel. Watched several football games, and
the Utah-Arizona basketball game on COMCAST channel 430 here in Spokane.
It's great, prior to PAC 12 membership, I would never have been able to
watch the Utes so often.
@NavyVetWho is it that is on National TV every game and in every
sport?Who is it that is a weekly regular on ESPN?...Not U,
that's for sure. Obscurity...ob·scu·ri·ty
/əbˈskyo͝oritē/Noun1.The state of
being unknown, inconspicuous, or unimportant.Again, who can be seen
on National TV, constantly, and who is not?
Bluto:"...BYU is doing just fine controlling their own Brand and
the accompanying Exposure which that brings...The days of obscurity in the MWC
are in the rear view mirror now for BYU."As are your days of
obscurity in the WAC, since the WAC is now dead. Coming up next....your days of
obscurity in Indy-irrelevance.
Why would I,Fact: The University of Utah has a $2.2 billion dollar
operating budget which does not include athletics. State tax payers contribute
8% of that. The U operates as a public university but is financed more like a
private university.Fact: Not one dime of tax payer money goes to
fund, operate, maintain or build anything having to do with the athletic
programs, teams or coaches at the U.Do you feel better now?
Excellent information!You are correct, these number are not up to
date nor current. They do not reflect BYU since Independence whatsoever.
Here is more current data regarding BYU and Utah's athletic
budgets...Utah Reporting year 7/1/2011 - 6/30/2012$20,759,062 revenues (Football)$14,835,266 expenses (Football)Total Salaries (coaches)mens $6,016,192 womens
$2,005,609total $8,021,801Grand Total Revenues for all
Teams $46,153,197Grand Total Revenues Minus Grand
Total Expenses $0 (profit)BYUReporting year 1/2/2011
- 1/1/2012$22,406,413 revenues (Football) $14,991,538
expenses (Football) Total Salaries (coaches)mens
$3,101,580 womens $1,172,420 total $4,274,000Grand Total Revenues for all Teams $53,033,500Grand Total Revenues Minus Grand Total Expenses $4,698,770
(profit) Again, BYU is doing just fine controlling their own Brand
and the accompanying Exposure which that brings. The days of
obscurity in the MWC are in the rear view mirror now for BYU.
Players commit way too much of their life to make money for the school. Some of
these guys are never the same after playing college football. Knees, back, neck
are all jacked up.While the schools make millions. And pay coaches
millions. Total joke.Athletes are restricted from working.
Internships are almost impossible to do. They all hope to go to the
NFL but most don't. They jeopardize the rest of their life by being too
tired to really get into school and learn. Football dominates their life.
Coaches, media, fans..everyone is wearing them out.They pay too high
of a price just to be manipulated by the schools in exchange for a scholarship.
Missing from this equation: Pro teams do not have dozens of other athletic teams
to support. What about the costs associated with BYU/Utah softball, gymnastics,
basketball, diving, swimming, Track and Field, soccer, baseball, volleyball,
etc.? Viewed in isolation, football turns a profit, but those profits are
necessarily funneled to underwrite other unprofitable sports.
@Y Grad / Y Dad Kraylon Actually they don't....
Let me get this right. So Utah's profit from football is roughly twice
that of BYU, even when they haven't gotten a full share of the TV revenue?
But I thought ESPN was paying BYU boatloads of money to be shown every Saturday
night at 10:15 EST against the likes of New Mexico State.As one
astute poster pointed out, it might partially be because of the PAC12 logos the
Utes have sold. BYU has been trying to cash in on the independence logo, but
Holmoe is still doing Google searches to see if there are any of those in stock
around and can't find them. Besides the money, I just like
attending with my season tickets knowing it will actually be a game. I was
tired of walking into RES knowing Utah would beat Wyoming by 20 points. I much
prefer to trade in my 11-0 season for a competitive league that is a challenge
to win each week. I hope they finish higher than this year, but the PAC12 trade
was a huge blessing in the lives of us Utah fans.
The article completely fails to realize the business model of college sports.
The real revenue in college sports is donations. Get to good bowl game and the
donations come in. The real dollars in college football are all about white
tent events where overly optimistic alumni feel their team is destined to
become/remain a great dynasty and they want to be part of it. These donors want
access to the players, to practices, to the best seats, to fancy parties and
they want their name on buildings and in programs. They pay hundreds of
millions of dollars for these "perks." That's where the real money
Hawk - With 35 bowls this year, it's hard to believe Utah was pathetic
enough to not make one... Wait, no it's not.
Just like government welfare: Some take what others earned.
Biff,Newsflash, things have changed in 25 years. 10 times more money
is generated off video game contracts and TV today than were EVER generated by
everything 2 decades ago. ESPN has already signed a BILLION dollar contract with
the SEC alone.Did you know video game contracts allow EA Sports to
use the student players in their video games forever without ANY compensation?
(Oscar Robertson is still being used and he graduated in 1961)That
Jersey sale money goes straight past the student who's jersey the fans are
buying?Yes, a "world class" (whatever that means) education
is worth something; but the BCS Colleges prosper FAR more off of the players
than the players EVER get from their University. I mean they don't even pay
for the health insurance of those same players! Not because it's right, but
because they don't have to.
Did anyone see the final ESPNU fan rankings? It looks like a bunch of Utah fans
tried to boost the school's profile.That's right,
according to the fan rankings the bowl ineligible 5-7 Utes finished ranked #28
in the nation. They must have been counting moral victories as well.
Interesting data, and of course comparing a business model that is
‘largely” unpaid (except free tuition and housing) will make more
then one that over pays its main employees millions. For this to be more
meaningful if should look at the last 3-5 years to see a more accurate picture.
Also I wonder about the figures about BYU as I know BYU does NOT release this
kind of financial information (did someone just guess?) They may be making more
or less then this story indicates. Knowing the way BYU runs its institution I
expect it is making more then these figures show and still have lower tuition
for its students. I also understand that BYU’s Football and Basketball
keep the whole athletic department in the blue and therefore the Athletic
departments “costs” the school $0. per year. I wonder about U of U
and other schools total Athletic budget / costs. So with U of U making this
money is the whole athletic department covered or do we still spend tax money on
the athletic department?
GoatNapper:I looked at the report you referenced. It showed
Utah's Football program grossed $20.8M, and netted $5.9M, but it did not
cite where the revenues came from. Was that just ticket sales and stadium
concessions? Did it include Utah's share of the conference championship
game and bowl revenues? We know it didn't include TV revenue since Utah
got $0 in 2011.The Indy-WACers program grossed $22.4M, and netted
$7.4M, so that would mean that either TV revenues were left out, or that the Y
cashing ESPN checks only nets $1.5M more than the U with no TV revenue. Either
way, by the time the 2012-13 figures come out, look to see the Utes'
profits pull even FURTHER away from our little brother.**
Interesting factoid: Utah's Basketball program outpaced the Y's
financially -- attendance notwithstanding. Utah grossed $5.9M, and netted
$2.3M, whereas the Y grossed $5.9M, but netted only $172K.
BYU Cougars, Utah Utes and Utah Jazz?Wow, three mediocre franchises
mentioned in one headline....snore.....
CougarPride11:"It was all those Pac12 stickers that Utah
sold..."No, the article was very specific. Utah's profit
was for the Football program ONLY! Not the entire athletic department. Utah
Football does not profit from "Pac-12" licensed sales. The Pac-12 does.
Lazy Reporting here. The numbers for BYU are 2 years old and cover the reporting
period for calendar year 2010, when BYU was still in the MWC. The real data can
be found by googling "equity in athletics data cutting tool." I'd
put the link here, but you're not allowed to post links. Select "get
data from one institution," and search for Brigham Young and then Utah.
Click on Revenue and Expenses. BYU generated $22.4M in revenue in
2011, and had $14.9M in expenses. For the same reporting year Utah generated
20.7M in revenue and had expenses of $14.8M.
It helps when you don't have to pay your players.
It is the entertainment industry with a helmet and shoulder pads. Make room on
the bench, Hollywood.
I take exception to those calling for collegiate athletes to be paid. How much
is a world class education worth? Don't give me that baloney. Collegiate
athletes are pampered beyond belief especially when you consider the resources
avialable to them that the average student can't afford. Football revenues
rightly support many other programs and are a driving force at successful
schools, but don't tell me that the payers need a salary. BTW, I'm a
former collegiate athlete: BYU football 1986-1992.
Of course were ritcher than the jazz and Ute. We have fans in China and a real
Really! You mean when you pay players millions of dollars you make less than
when they play for free?
OF COURSE the Universities make a HUGE profit. They don't pay their
workforce (the players) at all! No, getting paid in tuition (forced buying of
goods from the company store) does NOT compensate them fairly for what they
do.This also in...... water is wet and winter is cold.
Of course they are.Exploiting "amateur" athletes is always
going to be more profitable than having to pay athletes.But that
don't make it right.
Why not also list the price of season tickets? You know, those who bother to
show up for the games on a consistent basis, and ask them their feelings about
ticket prices?I stopped attending Jazz games a few years ago after I
scrimped to afford to take my family to see a home game vs. Orlando and after
the game Jerry Sloan said "The fans deserve better." I wanted to call
and ask him where I could apply, based upon his statement, for a refund. Sorry, but I can't afford to support millionaries who may "show
up" for the game, but may not, as well. There's a reason Utah is in
last place in their NBA Division.
Why would I hope that increased revenue for a state school might lower my state
income taxes just a bit? It will never happen. The Utes will go to the Rose
Bowl or win a National Championship before our taxes go down on increased
revenues and we all know the chances of that happening, don't we? Maybe USU will want a new, bigger stadium, too, and the U needs more
seating capacity to really fit into the PAC 12. Wait, perhaps not; for their
best season in school history USU couldn't get 18,000 fans in the stands
for each of their last three games and the Utes finished in the bottom 4 of
their conference with no bowl, along side of Colorado and Washington State.
Each of their stadiums are already too big.But I'm happy the U
at least gets more money because that's all they are getting out of the
It was all those Pac12 stickers that Utah sold...
So basically good call on ditching the MTN, and avoiding big least.I
recall BYU getting a lot of slack for that. Makes $ense. Also makes it extremely
unlikely to ever go back unless they offer same package as boise st.Same for utes. No brainer leaving for pac12. Even if it means being bottom
feeder for now.
Chris BSalt Lake City, UTI love my BCS member$hip!Of
course you do, Chris. And you pocket how much of that? Oh, yeah--the same amount
a BYU fan pockets. :)
Dear Metejeman those profits go to support, baseball, volleyball, tennis,
softball, swimming etc. so there is no profit when it is all done.
I never get tired of that picture either.
I love my BCS member$hip!
re plyxply 5:09 p.m. Jan. 8You know what would bring in cash &
interest? Finally, Changing the name. Where's my MBA?re: Y Grad
/ Y Dad 6:01 p.m. Jan. 8I wouldn't say that. Does byu 's
profit include $ from a certain network in New England?
Utes make more money than BYU, really, does that surprise anyone? Get over it,
BYU's priority was exposure and broadcast rights before money!Utah made the right choice for them and should eventually be a conference
contender in both football and basketball. Certainly BYU made the right choice
with independence over the MWC and now defunct 'The Mtn'! Also great
call in not joining the Big East!Both teams should be happy about
where they are now compared with 2 years ago. Now if only USU can continue to
move up and get a better deal with the MWC in the future (like BSU)!
Wow! See all the money coming from a national championship game, and players
get free tuition? How much do advertisers pay?
What this story tells me is that BYU and Utah ticket prices are WAAAAAYYYYYY too
Go Utes!! Goes to show that even getting a fractional share of the payout from
the Conference of Champions trumps independence (irrelevance).
Look at that, all my Ute friends! An article that requires no spin or
redefinition: the Utah football program earned more and profited more than the
BYU football program. No clever rejoinders, honest! Enjoy the
Should this be a wake up call for Jazz management and coaches?
When the Utes recieve a full share of the pac 12 TV contract in addition to what
they recieve from the Pac 12 network and bowl revenue their total will be in the
$30 million - $35 million range. The gap between the those in the big leagues
and those that are not continue to widen.
Interesting information. I find it disheartening that Greg Miller has plummeted
the Jazz in such a short period of time from what his father built.I think
it goes back to Greg Miller and KOC not supporting Jerry Sloan in the episode
with DWill and essentially telling all of the players that they would support
them in any conflict with the coach. Nobody respects that type of owner, and
the players don't have to make an effort anymore. Nobody wants to pay
outrageous ticket prices to watch poor effort by average NBA players. Nice job
Greg, and to top it all off you can't even make a profit.
Good news for the Utes and Cougs. Expect Utah's revenue and profit to
increase over the next few years as more PAC12 TV money kicks in. If wins don't follow the same upward trajectory as revenue expect to see
Whit looking for a new job.