Wow Jack. You read way more into my post than I wrote. My suggestion would
have taken no more than 3 officers and 20 minutes of working with the situation
and resources available in lieu of taking action that has proven time and time
again to be life threatening. I simply proposed that the first course of action
should not be to Taser a mentally ill person. And I do not advocate shooting
someone as a primary course for subduing him either. But you and I both know
that officers carry in their vehicles, necessary equipment to slow down traffic
and call for assistance. Mr. Cardall was not threatening anyone's life.
And I know Hurricane Utah very well and know that the exact spot where this
incident occurred was in an area that several more officers could have been on
the scene within 20 minutes. And if you were more familiar with this specific
case, you would know beyond a shadow of doubt that the Taser was used before any
of the options I suggested were employed. I think many things can be learned
for better response by officers in the future. I'll stick to that claim.
@Cinci man,We're talking about Hurricane, UT, not metro Cincinnati.
The time it would have taken to get as many officers as you suggest to the
scene; sheriff's deputies and UHP would still have yielded less than 10
officers, makes it very impractical and logistically impossible. To expect to
devote that many resources is just not realistic. These officers used
non-lethal force, like they were trained to do with an aggressive, out of
control man and it went south. You get the luxury of second-guessing them,
their training, the resources available, the price of rice in Ethiopia, but it
just doesn't meet any measure of what those two had to do at the time with
the facts available to them. They are not obligated to allow him to injure or
possibly kill them prior to taking action. They tried to stop the situation
from escalating to a lethal force issue and it went wrong. I would much rather
they tried the Tazer, than waiting until he was a lethal threat and then shot
him. This is a tragic ending and a man is dead. Let him rest.
I suppose the wife could have stood between her husband and the police and
stated, "Don't hurt him. He'll be OK in a minute."But
she didn't. She was locked in the car with her children out of fear.That ought to tell you something about the situation. The one person in the
world who knew him best and was most likely to be able to control his behavior
was cowering in fear. She called the police for help.Once the situation
has escalated to that point you really have no choice but to allow fate to take
its course.This isn't Hollywood. The police use lethal weapons.
That's why we call them when we are in trouble. The taser was the least
lethal in the arsenal and they used it. The intent was to subdue him. That was
the logical thing to do. Sometimes the taser effect is fatal. That's real
life. Tasers save lives far more often than they kill. They aren't
perfect.Bleeding hearts call to disarm police, but they live in a fantasy
Re: ". . . it is better that 1% of the people DIE rather than an officer be
hurt?"Yeah, it is. To real people, that's not a tough
choice.Where is it written that Utah's finest are required risk
injury and death because of another's criminal or mentally ill behavior?Of course this case is tragic, but it would be more tragic still, if a
liberal, bleeding-heart overreaction further handcuffed and endangered those we
pay so poorly and so grudgingly to protect us so well.
Dwayne,No it is not proper to try to use lethal force (gun) to subdue when
no lethal force has been or is being threatened. Mr Cardall was not armed and
was not threatening lethal force, so using a firearm would not be defensible.
It was very reasonable for the officers to use non-lethal force to subdue him,
and by the article it wasn't known that he had the underlying medical
condition which was triggered by the Tazer. It has been explained in other
posts about the dangers of allowing him into traffic, or the dangers of allowing
him to come at the officers. This is tragic, but not foreseen by the officers.
I believe this was a main consideration by the court/attorneys/city which
prompted them to settle as they did. It doesn't bring Mr Cardall back, and
I hope all parties can live with the aftermath. This will haunt those officers
for the rest of their lives.
dwayne:There is this mythology that those that use guns and even
regularly that they can shoot to wound. Shooting and hitting a target is
actually harder than you think. The guy could fire his gun and actually hit him
in the leg and he could still bleed out because he hit the femoral artery. He
could miss altogether and hit a bystander. Ask any police officer, when they
have to fire their gun they fire for the midsection area with the intent to
kill. This isn't Lethal Weapon 3 where Mel Gibson can hit his target on
demand in the leg to just to wound him. Again, I realize Tasers can
have side effects. Perhaps the issue the Cardall family might have is with that
company, who knows? But again I agree with Jack, the police didn't have
the background information we now have. They had to act, they probably even
thought they were acting to save Cardall's life by putting him down before
ran into on-coming traffic on a highway. I do feel bad about all of
this. This is a tragedy but I'm not sure the police are to blame.
Dwayne.I remember reading once that the training manuals for police
officers do not offer the idea of shooting a person with the intent of subduing
him. Guns are used by officers because there is the threat of the loss of the
life of another, so officers are trained to shoot to kill. That removes the
threat. Can anyone speak to this idea? Are there situations where, by
training, officers shoot a gun to subdue? And I ask if shooting a mentally ill
person would have much of a chance at subduing a person. It's an
interesting idea, but I have to wonder if officers can make a judgement in that
regard with any greater accuracy than they can with the Taser alternative.
It's good to have this conversation, but as we do so, my heart still goes
out to the Cardall family who lost a loved one needlessly, it seems.
Jack and Howard. You bring up some good points, but let's take a look at
other alternatives. You suggest that he might have run into the road and been
struck by a car. It seems reasonable that the officers can put out extreme
danger warnings such as flashing lights on their cruisers, flares to slow down
traffic in the immediate area until more officers can arrive to direct traffic
to slower, safer speeds. You also seem to focus on the apparent alternative to
clubbing him into submission. When the mentally ill are having an episode, it
does not mandate clubbing, subduing, Tasering, or any other violence against the
ill person. Frequently episodes can pass with time, or doctor's, spouse,
or other family intervention using calm talking. No matter how you slice it,
police officers need better, more complete training in handling these
situations. Never, in a situation exactly like this one, should the Taser have
been used at the point it was used. Can you at least agree with that?
It is indeed a tragedy that this young man died. But did anyone think that the
police might have been acting to actually save him from injury or death? It
seemed he was having a psychotic episode, and if I understand things, this
happened road side. Just giving the benefit of the doubt to the police
officer(s), but perhaps they wanted to subdue him quickly so he didn't run
out in traffic striking a car. How would that driver of that car feel for the
rest of his life had he struck Cardall and killed or injured him, even if it
wasn't his fault? And if the police just let him run around until he
"calmed down" would they not be negligent if his actions caused injury
or death because of their inactions? Jack above is correct. Tasers
have become a standard use tool for police officers because batons or even hand
to hand combat can produce more injuries not only to the police officers but the
assailants themselves. It is rare but sometimes tasers can cause death but for
the most part they are better than using a baton, hand-to-hand techniques or a
Perhaps a different perspective would be in order. Prior to Tasers, there were
only contact weapons like batons and flails. When the Taser was first
introduced, it was marketed as a more humane way of subduing a combative
subject, much like Mr Cardall. Being naked and not having a visible weapon does
not make him harmless as such episodes also involve a lack of pain stimulus;
meaning he could be struck many times with a baton, and not feel it. Police
officers are not mind-readers and cannot know every nuance of every person.
They must act based on the actions and facts before them. You all can arm-chair
quarterback all you want to, but you have the luxury of time and all the
information gathered after the fact. The officers didn't have that.
Sadly, Mr Cardall died, never a good outcome, but with a baton he owuld have had
many more injuries and possibly dead as well
Over reaction by the police caused the loss of the father to this good family.
He needed help or other forms of restraint. He was unarmed and not able to
inflict harm with two officers present they could have subdued him in a more
humane way. Sorry for all concerned.
sammyg, possibly, if they don't self insure like many cities do. It's
rare for a settlement to be confidential when it involves a municipality.
DanOIt would be my guess that the settlement, because it involved
employee liability, would be covered by an insurance company thus avoiding any
line on a city ledger.
Does anyone else think that the citizens of Hurricane deserve to know what the
settlement actually was? If the city made a payment, the people deserve to know.
Otherwise, it sounds like the city is avoiding responsibility to its own people.
My heart goes out to the Cardall family who suffered such a terrible tragedy
through this NEEDLESS killing! What a beautiful family!Over 500
people have died as a direct result of being Tased by police officers. Not
incidentally, but the Tasers killed the people itself. Many large police
departments have banned them, yet most still use them.Perhaps the
other police departments around the country need to be sued until they stop
using TASERS. 500 Taser deaths is not a small number.
Well written article, Emiley Morgan! Thanks for letting us finally know what
happened in this very sad case!I find it amazing that police
departments STILL use the Taser when it is know that the TASER, in and by
itself, kills a small percentage of the people it is used upon. WHY??? Because
it is better that 1% of the people DIE rather than an officer be hurt?Was this guy so scary that he had to be shot with a Taser rather than be
wrestled to the ground and cuffed? He was naked, so he had no weapons! And,
there was another officer there to help get him cuffed!Oh, and what
about officers mistakenly grabbing their guns and shooting people instead of
grabbing their TASER? Happened on that boy at the subway station.Remove Tasers from the arsenal of weapons Police Officers can use!
Now that the case is settled, my only hope is that Hurricane police now know
more about handling cases such as this one. When a "suspect" suffers
from mental illness and is unarmed, the last thing an officer should do is to
use a weapon, even a weapon like a Taser.All the best to the Cardall
family and others like them who have loved ones who suffer from mental illness.
This was a tragic situation that ended unnecessarily in the death of Mr.
Cardall. It reminds me of a man in Phoenix whose teenage son was having an
episode in their home. The father called 911 so that an officer could ensure
the safety of the family during the episode, thinking that it would play itself
out at some point. An impatient officer pulled out his pistol and shot the teen
when he waived a knife while cowering in a corner, screaming at everyone to not
come near him and to leave him alone. The officer reasoned that since he had a
knife, the teen was a threat to himself and others, so the best thing he could
do is to shoot the teen dead. I realize that officers are placed in risky
situations often, but in these two cases, they simply blew it with unsound
judgement. What a tragedy. And thanks to the gazillions of times that officers
handle things with good judgement.