In the past 30 years homicides in this nation have dropped in half. Europe has
not seen a drop in homicides when they put in strict gun laws. In England gangs
are armed so now the Bobbies are carrying weapons. On the other hand incidents
with those having concealed permits are very rare. Every home should have a gun
and any teacher that wishes to carry. If I were a teacher I would want to
protect my students.
I have a question for those of you who think teachers at high schools or
students at public universities should be able to concealed carry to help
improve safety...if that really did help safety, then shouldn't
we be peacefully petitioning private church schools in the state like BYU to
change their policy against guns on campus?
I do agree that more shooting training is appropriate. The problem? No ranges
here in Salt Lake, except the cop ranges can give that type of training. A
Hogan's alley at Lee Kay could help remedy that situation. OR give the
public better access to the Sheriff's range or the SLC PD range, or the
Murray PD's indoor range. After all, the taxpayers own those ranges. They
should be able to use them any time they want.
"There's two different kinds of guns: guns in the good guys' hands
and guns in the bad guys' hands," No, guns change hands and they work
the same either way. Disturbed children fascinated by guns will
figure out who is packing and will appreciate that the teacher got the gun into
the school for them. Now all they need to get started on mass murder is a heavy
book to the back of that teacher's head. Seriously folks, don't we
have a better idea than pouring gasoline on the fire?
Hope the state of Utah is ready for the multiple million dollar law suit that
comes from the first 'accidental' shooting in a school. It is not a
question of 'if' but when.
The answer is clearly that we all need to pack heat. In fact, lets make
teachers eligible for combat pay, those who are willing to get a "concealed
carry" permit and use it. And those who carry a "semi-automatic"
weapon to school will get bonus pay. Talk about a perfect lead-in or
advertisement for home schooling, this is it.
An art teacher at the school I teach at weighs in at 100 lbs...maybe. She is
also the one that is most outspoken about the need for teachers to have guns.
Our middle linebacker is 250 lbs, and a little crazy. What would happen if he
wanted to take her gun? What if a whole group of kids ganged up on her?
Schools are no place for guns, except for police officers. Period.
I've worked in several different schools here in Utah and I can say that
there are only about one or two that I would trust with a gun. The thought of
some of these teachers carrying a weapon is far scarier than a possible armed
intruder. No, I'm not joking.
A lawyer's dream.
Unfortunately, when one lives in a society damaged by improper raising of so
many children these things will happen. Until we fix this, willing teachers
need to be armed.Bandaid solutions wont help. If they did, China
wouldn't have more school attacks than we do. Their people aren't
allowed to own guns.
Noodlekaboodle:I have one problem with your argument, if the person
wants to kill himself chances are he is going to do it. My brother killed
himself a few years ago he didn't have access to a firearm, but was able to
do it just fine. Taking away peoples guns will not change their state of mind!
"Giving a gun to a teacher is not going to protect the school. That gun will
protect that teacher only (and hopefully a few students). If a teacher heard
shots fired in the office, the LAST thing the teacher should do is leave the
classroom. That leaves the students unprotected, which was the point in allowing
the gun."right - and that is why, if every teacher and staff
member had a gun, they could protect their own little corner of the world, and
the whole would be taken care of."School teachers with guns? How
can that be good?"If those Conn. teachers had guns there would
have been fewer casualties. They could have taken care of the problem when it
walked through their door."I hope any teacher who brings a gun
to class is fired immediately, ..." And I would hope your son
or daughter's teacher would be able to give him a chance for survival.No one in their right mind is crazy about this whole situation, but we
must give our kids and teacher a chance at survival. And like has already been
posted - many times they back down at the sight of a gun
re:GZE" I believe they may find they are less prepared than they
believe they are."Uh, yeah. For what are teachers
going to do when the assailant shows up wearing a bullet-proof vest and helmet?
Will the teachers also have Bushmaster's with high magazine capacity? Are there any studies which show more guns and less regulation results
in lower rates of homicide and firearm deaths?
I don't think the person that wrote this article actually took the 29
minutes to watch the actual NRA press conference. I'm actually convinced
that very few of our media practitioners actually did so because they make
outlandish comments about what the NRA "said" in that press conference
and none of them are true. In the press conference the NRA basically said,
"we need to do something to protect our children. Each individual school
needs to come up with its own plan. We recommend armed guards. We think there
are people with military and police training that would volunteer to do this
kind of work." Shame on our media practitioners and ourselves for not being
informed. Kudos to the schools for finally waking up and realizing the truth.
How can we protect our kids with chalkboards and desks when the enemy, legally
or illegally, has superior weapons, be they assault rifles, bombs made from
household chemicals, knives, or expert knowledge of martial arts? We can't.
Excellent! I love seeing this. Now the school systems need to allow teachers to
carry firearms to school. They also should provide a lock box in each classroom
so teachers can leave firearms in their class if they like. If school teachers
are not responsible enough to handle this, then they are not responsible enough
to have my children all day. I think safely driving a car is harder than
safely handling a firearm. It is not really that hard like some people try to
make it out to be.
Regardless of whether a teacher who goes through a course like concealed-carry
class decides to carry a gun to school or not, it's still a good idea for
teachers (and everyone) to be familiar with how to handle a gun. And I
don't just mean how to fire it. I'm talking about how to make sure the
safety is on, how to load/unload it and even how to dismantle it. I certainly
don't think arming every teacher is the answer, but I think offering
advanced training to some could be beneficial. We can't always
live in fear, expecting the worst, and we certainly can't let our children
live their lives that way either. But we do need to make sure that we take
appropriate precautions where we can. We need to look at the Sandy Hook
incident, learn what we can, and adjust our school policies where necessary. Too
many bad decisions/laws are made in the heat of moment. We need to take time to
process everything, and look at things with more rational eyes.
I do not think the person who feels the need to carry a gun into a class room
full of children is the kind of person to be a teacher. Teachers tend to be
role models to the children they teach, control and befriend. Children often
imitate the attitudes and mannerisms actions of teachers and other adults. That
coupled with the extreme fascination of a gun and it’s use may be just the
wrong thing to impose on the character building of children. Rather
than spend the money on guns, training and such, I would prefer that we spend
the money on the revision of the structure of the school building. While
letting teachers do the job they are hired for, the building and it’s
controlled access handles the security part. The part of the
building for classrooms, teachers and students should not be accessible except
by controlled access. As needed different parts of the building should also be
controlled access. Likewise, the cafeteria, auditorium, playground, pickup and
drop off areas, all need visual and controlled access.
To "justamacguy": In order to become POST certified, a law enforcement
office must first complete and pass a 40-hour weapons handling class. The
16-hours is an annual refresher course
To a European, this seems beyond absurd. If teachers start carrying guns too,
you might as well dismantle the whole educational system, hide in a bunker below
ground and wait for the world to end. Is society turning into a giant shootout?!
It would be better to concentrate on trying to make firearms less ubiquitous.
The solution to a conflict is to calm things down, not to escalate it.
While I do not support this idea, I recognize that there is a distinct
possibility it may be put into effect. My suggestion is to stage a mock
disaster at an elementary school. Let those who think they are now prepared to
protect students find out what it might be like in a true terrorist situation -
with gunfire from an unidentified source, with 30 8-year-olds screaming and
running around, with hysterical parents trying to enter the building to get
their children, with all the uncertainity that can be similated. I believe they
may find they are less prepared than they believe they are.
@DNSubscriber2An average of 9 people have been killed in school shootings
since 1980. An average of 9 per year. Heck, if we are so worried why don't
we start a new government agency to protect our kids. We will call it the ESA,
Education Security Administration, Kids will go through metal detectors, bomb
sniffing dogs will roam the schools and an announcement will go out over the
intercom reminding kids not to leave their backpacks unattended and to report
any unattended bags to the ESA. Don't forget that you will not be able to
enter the school without a ticket and to drop them off 2 hours before school for
domestic teachers and 3 hours for international teachers.
Most of the critics ignore a couple of basic facts:1. No one is
encouraging or expecting armed teachers to take the place of cops or SWAT teams
chasing down killers. They are strictly voluntarily (and wisely!) taking on the
option of having a tool to protect themselves, and their students, if a killer
comes into their classroom. 2. No one is saying that the free
training provided is all that they need to be a safe and capable user of a self
defense weapon. It is the first step- to find out the legal requirements; the
burden of responsibility that comes with carrying a gun; when it can be used;
and the consequences of using it to defend yourself. They are encouraged to
practice on a range for proficiency, and to think about the mental mindset
needed for self defense.3. No teacher is forced to participate, and
some may decide after the training not to arm themselves. But, that does not
mean we should prohibit capable teachers from participating.4.
Critics offer no real options for a last line of defense. Tell a killer to
write "I will not kill" on the blackboard 100 times?
@ Noodlekaboodle. Your facts are valid. It is a knee-jerk reaction fueled by a
crowd that has its sight on eliminating a specific tool, rather than solving a
problem with a much wider scope.
This is not an anti second amendment argument..but rather simply an
observation..it strikes me as insanity that a society where violence in schools
is actually going down reacts to a rare (particularly rare when compared to the
number of classrooms across the nation) gun tragedy by exposing our children to
more guns. There's nothing sensible about it. Mukkake, talks
about the hundreds of hours of training cops and the military in gun
training..yet when the action starts, has anyone heard of friendly fire. How
many of our military are killed by our own troops..look it up it's sad..but
a part of war. Just something to think of teacher before you go packing in your
This is so funny with people saying police officers go through so many hours of
training with a gun. Hours of training to remain POST certified per year 40
hours, of which only 16 hours can be firearms. Give the teachers one more day on
the range and they have as much annual training as a police officer.
According to a 12/19/12 article on Slate there have been 137 school
shootings(All schools, including college) and 297 deaths since 1980. Your kid is
significantly more likely to get the gun out of your closet and kill themselves
than they are to die at the hand of a mass shooter. The American Foundation For
Suicide Prevention says 38,634 people killed themselves in 2010 and 50% used
guns. Also 83% of gun related deaths in the home are suicide. Why are we up in
arms over a small amount of lives, but we ignore almost 40,000 deaths a year
that are preventable? Finally, If we arm teachers, and someone still is intent
on going on a killing spree whats to stop them from bombing the school or
lighting the doorway of a classroom of fire preventing escape. If a person is
bound and determined to kill someone unfortunately they usually will do it.
Whether someone around them might have a concealed weapon or not.
Good on them.The article is incorrect, however, as in Texas a
Concealed Carry permit holder may carry on school grounds, just not in buildings
or at school sponsored activities. They may also have their gun in the vehicle
in the parking lot.There is a law already at the State Legislator to
allow concealed carry in all schools, and one school district already allows it
for teachers, without the state statute.
It's totally amazing that so many people are so phobic about people
becoming familiar and/or proficient with a common tool. But it's flat
frightening that so many people want the government to monitor and control every
facet of their lives, when government can't even control its spending and
other responsibilities that ARE the proper role of government. No wonder we are
such easy prey for not only crime, but so many other factions and forces which
appear determined to totally destroy our country and culture.
Ok, if teachers can carry guns and shoot people at schools, then I want
accountability. If they accidentally shoot a student or other innocent person,
whether in a cross-fire situation or not, then they need to go to jail. If
someone takes their gun and uses it, they should go to jail. No excuses. I do
not want some Reacher-wannabe "protecting" my kids at school. Police
officers go through hours and hours of training and we think some little
afternoon class is an acceptable substitute? Ridiculous.
As a school employee (substitute teacher) this subject is so raw. However, I
want to be able to do more than shield children with my body as we are all just
shot like ducks. I am not willing to carry a gun, but I am totally in support of
the principal, vice principal or even those sweet secretaries having a gun and
knowing how to use it. They're the first line of defense anyway.Read
about the Clackamas Oregon mall shooting - a young man with a concealed weapons
permit aimed his gun at the shooter - he didn't shoot because he saw the
innocent bystanders and didn't want to be part of the problem- But the
shooter stopped and his next shot went into his own head. Did the gun pointed at
him give him pause? Maybe. It's worth a try.
I'll think this is a feasible solution the day I hear about a single
teacher who stopped a shooting spree by wielding a gun. Until then, I really
don't trust a 2nd grade teacher to handle a gun in a classroom anymore than
I trust a 2nd grader to do so.Cops and military spend hundreds of
hours on the shooting range and in training scenarios. It isn't just a
matter of being able to "handle a gun" or even to hit your target.
It's being able to quickly identify a friend or foe, a skill I doubt any of
these teachers have. Chances are they'd just shoot somebody else by
accident.Maybe if they played more violent video games they'd
have quicker reflexes and quicker critical thinking skills, but I doubt they do.
I hope any teacher who brings a gun to class is fired immediately,
just like any kid should be expelled.
School teachers with guns? How can that be good? Every solution creates at least
two new problems that need solutions that will in turn create two more new
problems. Next thing you know the National Guard will be teaching in schools,
teaching how to use guns. Enough already.
We have to have common sense. Those who are opposed to faculty and staff having
weapons or access to them have put forth no alternatives to keep kids safe
beyond saying 'we have to keep guns ... all guns ... out of schools.'
What?? How is that supposed to happen? If we are really prepared to make
schools absolutely secure, with metal detectors, bullet-proof, shatter-proof
windows, and walled-in playgrounds impossible to access, fine. But that will
NEVER happen. We'll never spend that kind of money. So, we CAN'T keep
assailants out of our schools ... unless they don't want to bother because
they know their target will fight back. Reality: Schools are a
target, just as much as courtrooms, airports, stadiums and The White House. In
recent years, schools have been attacked more than any of the above. I teach in
Utah. A teacher at my school asked, 'What if a gunman gets into our
classroom? What can we do?' Our principal responded, with great sadness and
sincerity, 'Nothing. It's probably over.' School children need
better protection than that, and it's clear the government isn't going
to provide it. I'm glad someone is.
DN Subscriber 2SLC, UTPerhaps these teachers need to
have a mental health assessment if they are going to play at being "Jack
Bauer". Reminds me of the guy who heard someone breaking into a
neighbor's house, went and got his gun and sat in his living room, waiting
in the dark, in case they tried to break into his house. I'm sure glad I
didn't go and knock on his door to see if he was OK. Fear and high stress
does strange things in people.And why should I trust that you are a
Giving a gun to a teacher is not going to protect the school. That gun will
protect that teacher only (and hopefully a few students). If a teacher heard
shots fired in the office, the LAST thing the teacher should do is leave the
classroom. That leaves the students unprotected, which was the point in
allowing the gun.
We protect our president, our celebrities,our airports, downtown streets and
even high school sporting events with armed gunmen; yet our most precious
commodity, our children, have been left in the hands of selfless educators
willing to serve as human shields in the classroom. This is a commonsense
solution in which government and free enterprise has partnered. . .and teachers
have proactively stepped forward, as has already been required in Israel, to
assume their elevated and required role as protectors. Thanks to all!
These classes fast food courses provide nothing more than a false sense of
comfort and experience to the "students". It takes more than the state
minimum of 4 hours of instruction to make sure someone is capable and educated
enough to operate a firearm. If the state decides to arm school staff they
should provide more advanced training to make sure these staff have the capacity
and expertise to remove a threat not become one.
TWENTY MINUTES before police arrived in Connecticut. Of course these 200
teachers are thinking sensibly. Thanks to them and the weapons instructors.
Great work! A practical, real world tool to help make our kids safer, and being
done in a way that does not require a massive government bureaucracy and
billions of dollars.A special thanks has to go to those dedicated
educators who have considered the risks that exist in today's world, and
decided that they might want to have options other than just be an unarmed
victim in a "gun free zone" that protects no one.Finally
thank you to the wise Utah legislators who so many years ago established
Utah's concealed carry laws so that law abiding citizens can carry legal
self defense weapons in our schools. (The success of which has thoroughly
discredited the anti-gun extremists' claims that this would make schools
less safe.)I hope many more classes will be offered by other
concerned instructors and that many educators take advantage of such
opportunities. The lives of our kids may depend on some brave teacher willing to
look evil in the eye and do what has to be done."A bad guy with
a gun IS only stopped by a good guy with a gun." Support the good guys (and
I know that as a Canadian some may feel I am not qualified to make a comment but
I do and here goes. If you have a gun do the world a favour and spend time on
the range monthly to hone your skills to a high level and keep them there. If
your marksmanship is not too good then get instruction. A person with a gun who
is a poor shot is just as much danger to the victims as the perpetrator is. Just
another thought, If the kid in Utah who brought a gun to school had known that
some of his teachers had guns for his protection do you think he would have
brought one? I don't think so.God bless us all and have a Happy New