Are our children safe at school?

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  • What in Tucket? Provo, UT
    Dec. 23, 2012 6:32 p.m.

    I guess some of these perpetrators could not simply be evil could they? Concealed carry is the answer. I would be glad to give a bonus for those teachers who carry.

  • KC Mormon Edgerton, KS
    Dec. 21, 2012 12:37 p.m.

    I hope SS is not saying that teachers should be mandated to carry a gun. That I agree would be as bad an outcome as another weapons ban. I think what he/she was trying to say is that schools should not be gun free zones but rather any school employee that is properly trained and goes through proper background checks at regular intervals should be allowed to carry a gun on school property. This could have saved lives had the principle or another school employee been properly trained. This ONLY works however with PROPER training and periodic screening to make sure people do not develop a problem after the initial screening.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Dec. 21, 2012 9:35 a.m.

    Had the principal held a gun, this tragedy could have been avoided.

  • Coach P Provo, UT
    Dec. 20, 2012 6:37 p.m.


    I'm a teacher/coach and I would like to pass on being forced to carry a gun. I"m okay with the law as it is and those with concealed weapons can carry. I'm okay with that. I don't particularly like guns and I certainly want to be properly trained before I would ever consider packing. I think it is great to have the freedom to choose to have a gun for protection or for the freedom not to have a gun. I think a few armed personnel in a high school seems reasonable if they are highly trained in the use of firearms, but requiring every adult in the school to be armed seems excessive to me and asking for trouble.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Dec. 20, 2012 4:47 p.m.

    Proc's proposal, which, by the way, I have not heard endorsed by any REAL teacher, screams for higher teacher pay. I trust proc is OK with that.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 20, 2012 3:25 p.m.

    The most Consevative Justices on the Supreme Court don't believe the 2nd Amendment is without limits and that there can be bans on American citizens owning military type weapons. So anybody promoting the idea that any ban on weapons violates the Constitution is "off-the-chart" extremist in their views.

    I can just imagine a teacher, not wearing a bullet-proof vest against a heavily armed and armored assailant, opening fire in a classroom full of kids. I wonder how much the teacher could be sued for if she accidentally kills one of the kids.

    So how do law enforcement officers feel about citizens concealed/open carrying guns? What do they feel about people owning assault weapons? My guess is it makes their job harder. Strangely we haven't heard from them.

    Finally this week i've read about 2 different instances where a customer shot another customer in a place of business, out of frustration. Think about that next time you are holding up the line in the grocery store.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 20, 2012 12:38 p.m.

    JWB - your comments are the exact problem I talk of... running right to the extremes. Why isn't it we can't talk about sensible legislation to make sure guns don't end up in the hand of those who should not have them, criminal or not. Too many young kids are killed playing with their parents guns. Too many wrong people - like the last two incidents are getting their hands on guns that are not their own.

    Why is it we can't talk about those issues, and not spend our time spinning in the mud worrying about things that the Supreme Court has years of precedent defending gun owners rights. What has changed so dramatically on the Supreme Court that this time, they will buckle to the most left leaning crowd. I mean really, they just struck down Chicago's gun laws.

    So lets stop running around screaming our rights will be taken away, and start working on pragmatic solutions to too many innocent people are dying because guns got into the wrong hands. Can we at least start there?

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Dec. 20, 2012 10:35 a.m.

    Schools will never be safer, so long as they are government-mandated free-fire zones for those intent on wreaking monstrous, Newtown-style evil.

    The ONLY measures that will deter and prevent more Newtowns involve an armed presence. And, the only armed presence we can afford is training and supporting willing teachers and staff, who take seriously enough the safety and security of themselves and their charges to go armed into harm's way.

    Neither the economics, nor the physics add up any other way.

  • SS MiddleofNowhere, Utah
    Dec. 20, 2012 10:21 a.m.

    Teachers, along with every other law-abiding citizen, should carry a concealed weapon, end of story. I don't know how anyone could honestly believe that if a teacher at Sandy Hook had had a gun that more innocent lives wouldn't have been spared. This is EXACTLY what the 2nd Amendment is for, for American citizens to defend themselves. It doesn't matter where it is. These things would very rarely happen or at least very rarely be carried out and accomplished if more responsible people carried guns. It is illogical to see it any other way. No one can say that Sandy Hook, or any other school shooting would have been worse had a teacher been carrying a gun as well.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Dec. 20, 2012 9:59 a.m.

    If JWB is right in saying that the UN plans to establish "world government", then I have to ask: The UN has been around since the late 1940's, so which countries have they brought under UN control SO FAR? And why would the president of the world's richest and most powerful country simply hand over power to an outfit that couldn't even establish peace in Bosnia?

    Someone should tell JWB that the warnings of the John Birch Society are a little out of date, and were never too accurate.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Dec. 20, 2012 9:11 a.m.

    I recognize how significant this event was, but this President is using the crisis to move his agenda forward on banning guns. His Secretary of State and the Ambassador to the United Nations have been attempting to move a ban on weapons in all countries, against our 2nd Amendment and other regulations based on that amendment. They have been attempting to move the United Nations to be the world government. They are using this crisis to move the banning of all guns, in the long run, to undermine our Congress and states rights in our country. The World Court in the Hague who can't move anything would supplant the Supreme Court of the United States.

    I do not want to see the United Nations or our government undermine what the Constitution guarantees. Vice-President Biden who can't control his tongue is one that is heading up this proposal and is the most liberal in this matter. He hasn't done anything in 4 years and now will get this bill and proposal done in a month?

    We need to make sure our Congressmen and Senators take their stand based on the Constitution, not what this President does with crises.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Dec. 20, 2012 9:00 a.m.

    To quote Han Solo, "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side kid." Not denigrating religion by the way.

    Guns are not the problem. Availability of guns is not the problem. It is the occasional random crazy person/criminal that is the problem. And regardless what type of weapon they use, they will always be a problem. Remember Hoffman used pipe bombs loaded with nails. So did the Unibomber.

    I personally don't have a problem with a teacher, administrator, janitor, aid in a school packing a gun. Provided they have been properly trained and remember that use of such a tool is a last resort.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Dec. 20, 2012 8:22 a.m.

    I know the Utah school districts have very safe schools over the years. The D.A.R.E. program has been a very successful part of that program. That success has been in large part to the individual D.A.R.E. officers from the various law enforcement agencies that have been to their assigned schools on a regular basis. The bad guys that would commit horrendous crimes don't know when the D.A.R.E. officer is going to be at that school on any given day.

    Teachers and administrators practice various types of drills periodically, such as fire drills and keep that type of emergency communication practiced and valid.

    What a blessing to have people that care about our children and grandchildren to volunteer to help in various situations and to provide needed protection and procedures to follow.

    It is too bad that not all school districts and cities have D.A.R.E. programs at their schools, public or private with the help of Utah Council for Crime Prevention (UCCP).

    The UCCP mission is to mobilize, educate, and train children, youth, citizens, employers, and law enforcement officers to reduce the incidence of crime, violence, substance abuse.

  • Joe Moe Logan, UT
    Dec. 20, 2012 8:09 a.m.

    "...we come to realize that we bear a responsibility for every child because we're counting on everybody else to help look after ours; that we're all parents; that they're all our children. It's our first job. If we don't get that right, we don't get anything right."

    This is a beautiful statement.

  • KC Mormon Edgerton, KS
    Dec. 19, 2012 8:26 p.m.

    Another sign that things are actually getting better when we calm down and do not just go off emotion is again found in the numbers from 1996-2003 the top 5 (as number of people listed as victims) were 1-38,2-26, 3-(tied)15 and 15, 5-10. 2004-2012 1-29, 2-10, 3-(tied)9 and 9, 5-6. Notice that all of the top 5 were 10 or more in the 1996-2003 years however only two were 10 or more in the 2004-2012 years. Yes we still have a problem but things ARE getting better and our CHILDREN are still safer at school.

  • KC Mormon Edgerton, KS
    Dec. 19, 2012 8:12 p.m.

    I agree with you very much. People are using this sad tragedy for their own agendas The simple fact is when we look at apples to apples things are actually getting better not worse as far as SCHOOLS go. Yes this was very bad and tragic but lets look back over two 8 year periods. First 1996-2003 (under a weapons ban) there were 28 school shootings involving children (18 years or younger) as either victim or gunman, 49 people killed, and 113 wounded for a total of 162 victims (not including the person killing themselves). In the 8 years after the ban 2004-2012 there were 14 shootings with the same conditions, 52 people killed, and 41 injured for a total of 93 people. Now of the 52 in the latter number 27 of those were from Sandy Hook so before it you had 25 killed or basically half as many killed after the ban than during the ban. So I would say yes our children are safe in school. The number of school shootings are going down however we still need to look at what is the underlying cause of the problem.

  • DN Subscriber 2 SLC, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 7:10 p.m.

    Those are all good steps.

    However, unlike most states, Utah ALLOWS teachers administrators and other school employees (as well as parents who may be assisting or visiting) who have obtained Concealed Weapons Permits to carry their legal self defense guns in schools. And, many do!

    In fact, for many years Utah gun rights groups have reached out to teachers who wanted to get the required training. Everyone recognizes that this is not a substitute for a police SWAT team, or a uniformed "Resource Officer" and not every teacher can or should carry a gun.

    But, in Utah we have this additional line of defense between that locked classroom door and the defenseless students inside.

    Since permit holder names are confidential, no one knows exactly how many teachers are armed, including the principals in some cases. But, the bad guys don't know either, and they can not count on Utah classrooms to be the "gun free" defenseless victim zones which have been so attractive to the despicable people who engage in these heinous crimes.

    Everyone hopes no teacher will ever need to use a legally carried concealed weapon, but we should be thankful that many have that option.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 19, 2012 6:46 p.m.

    I am sorry,i am probably going to be tarred and feathers for this... but what an absolutely stupid question - "are our children sage at school?'. Ummmm, yes, probably safer then they are at home or in than in the car getting to and from school.

    Listen, Malls didn't become unsafe two weeks ago. Theaters didn't become unsafe a year ago. Flying didn't become unsafe 11 years ago.

    The media just loves to pull at the heart strings and pander to every fear a parent has. These events were horrific. But the number of children killed in this event is statistically not even a rounding error when it comes to the number of kids going to school and how many loose their lives at school. There is a far greater chance your child will be a victim of abuse or bullying - which leaves life long scares on kids, than a killer comes into your kids school.

    In the last 30 days, more kids were lost to child hood decease in North Carolina - than were killed in this incident. Each one as precious, as special. Lets not loose perspective - and respect all these kids lives.