Linda & Richard Eyre: Knowing Christ better at Christmastime

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  • Fred W. Anson Lake Forest, CA
    Dec. 21, 2012 3:51 p.m.

    @Sharrona, I am NOT a Baha'i nor am I advocating or endorsing their truth claims - I am using them as a poignant example and nothing more. Apparently you've have produced yet another non-sequitur post I'm afraid.

    @Bill in Nebraska, sorry but, no, there are no problems - the comparison is spot on. The Baha'i faith claims to have revelations superior to Joseph Smith's - who they claim was a "Seer".

    Further, not only does the Baha'i faith believe in continuing revelation and has had LIVING Prophets since it's inception, it claims to have the RESTORATION of God's TRUE plan of happiness/salvation/etc for humanity. It was RESTORED through the manifestation of their founder, Baha'u'llah in 1891 - God's highest prophet, they claim.

    They also claim that Joseph Smith prophesied the coming of Baha'u'llah AND they have codified Christ's divinity in THEIR body of new scripture that TESTIFIES of Christ's divinity. That knowledge and doctrine comes from their Heavenly Father through LIVING prophets.

    @Twin Falls, why are you asking me to defend a position I've already stated I don't hold to and would argue against?

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Dec. 17, 2012 8:20 p.m.

    Perhaps the language is imprecise. But it is hardly “lazy ignorance”. I live in a strongly evangelical area and came to the church as a convert from Catholicism so I have some understanding of non-LDS doctrine and Trinitarianism generally.

    Are you really saying that some (not all) evangelicals do not think that our understanding of Christ is less than theirs? I have read several articles that make that point and evangelical commentators on this site make it all the time as well.

    So, if evangelicals can say that our understanding of Christ is less than theirs, how is that not offensive and yet the LDS maintaining a similar position is offensive to evangelicals?

    BTW, we worship not so much a different Christ but we do have a different understanding of him (which was the precise point that Dr. Peterson was making).

    Dec. 17, 2012 1:32 p.m.

    @Twin Lights
    IMO to say that Mormons "know less about Christ because of their use of non-biblical sources" is to use imprecise language that demonstrates lazy ignorance of the subject. Mormons would be right in challenging it.

    Rather, it's far more accurate to say that Latter-day Saints worship a DIFFERENT Christ due a Christology eisegeted* from the Bible due to their use of extra-Biblical sources.

    This is accurate, even toned, and agrees with what Mormon Leaders have said throughout LdS History. To cite just a one of many such examples:

    "It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshiped by the Mormons or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints"
    -- Bernard P. Brockbank, LDS Seventy (Ensign, May 1977, p.26)

    * NOTE: That's "eisegeted" - as in interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that it introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, etc into the text rather than letting the text speak for itself - rather than exegeted."

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Dec. 15, 2012 8:40 p.m.

    Mr. IT,

    I read your post. I don't really find it offensive. And, if published in a Bahai owned newspaper, it would hardly be unanticipated.

    Again, aren't the LDS frequently criticized by various Christian sects for knowing LESS about Christ due to our use of non-biblical sources?

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    Dec. 15, 2012 8:31 p.m.

    The problem with using Baha'i is that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is that we utilize the Book of Mormon, a new scripture that TESTIFIES of the divinity of Jesus Christ. We further state: "And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives. For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we hear the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father -- That by him, and through him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God." This teaches very plainly that Jesus is the creator of this earth, and he was the only begotten son of the Father. That he and the Father both have bodies of flesh and bone. This in no way corresponds to the Baha'i nor should it be even correlated with it. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the RESTORED Church of Jesus Christ. The knowledge and doctrine comes from our Heavenly Father through LIVING prophets.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Dec. 15, 2012 4:52 p.m.

    RE: Mr_IT, Maybe a Bahai and therefore offended because:

    Bahai’s believe that Bahá’u’lláh is a greater manifestation of God than Moses, Muhammad, or the Christian Messiah. The Baha’i thrust toward the unification of all religions is primed for failure. Islam, the mother religion of Baha’i would not and could not consider Bahá’u’lláh as a prophet of God greater than Muhammad. Likewise, Christianity is committed to Christ as “the way and the truth and the life” (John 14:6).

    Baha’i deny objective truth claims of Christianity such as the Trinity, virgin birth, incarnation, resurrection, and second coming of Christ. Moreover, while the Báb said that Bahá’u’lláh was the “Best–beloved” and “the Desire of the World”.The Bible states that Christ is “the exact representation of God” (Hebrews 1:3) in whom “all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form” (Colossians 2:9).

  • Stay the Course Salt Lake City, utah
    Dec. 15, 2012 3:26 p.m.

    Mr IT still didn't help with your answer

    Dec. 15, 2012 2:46 p.m.

    Perhaps presenting the article as if it were written by a Baha'i couple might help you all understand how it offends:

    'Christmastime is the perfect opportunity for parents to concentrate on teaching their children not only about the birth of Christ, but about his life; and even more so about the wonderful and supernal truths that came to us through Joseph Smith, Baha'u'llah and God's other messengers.

    Let us just share a sample that illustrates the gratitude should feel for the vast array of additional insights that we would not have without those who followed Joseph Smith. As you read the list below, note that only 20 of the roles of Christ are known by the Latter-day Saints. Perhaps this 'bigger picture' will help us all to better celebrate Christmas and help our children center more on its true meaning.

    Q: Who is Joseph Smith?
    A: Joseph Smith was a Seer who foretold the coming of the Bahai faith in 1891.

    Q: Who is Jesus?
    A: The One designated as the "Spirit of God

    Q: Why did the Spirit of God come to earth?
    A: To infuse a fresh capacity into all created things.

  • Stay the Course Salt Lake City, utah
    Dec. 15, 2012 8:56 a.m.

    Mr IT
    I am with twin lights what is so offensive and condescending
    I just don't see it or read it in this article

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Dec. 14, 2012 9:06 a.m.

    Mr IT,

    I am not criticizing here, just asking a question. What part of the article is offensive to you or to evangelicals generally? The claim that we have additional insights due to our other scriptures?

    If so, are we (the LDS) not criticized by many Christian sects for knowing LESS about Christ due to our use of non-biblical sources? How would such criticism differ from what the Eyres are saying?

    Again, just trying to understand the point.

    Dec. 13, 2012 7:54 p.m.

    I'm scratching my head over your post. Candidly, I'm not sure what your point is!
    I didn't address doctrinal issues in my post so why are you directing your post at me?

    And if you're looking to challenge Mormon doctrine then why are you directing your comments to an Evangelical Christian who not only has no interest in defending them but regularly criticizes them.

    My issue (and the issue of my Evangelical friends who have read and been offended by the article) was with the attitude, tone, and condescending language used by the authors of this article. Yes, I have indeed have issues with the doctrine being presented as well but I said nothing about it since I've spilled gallons of ink on the subject of Mormon theology elsewhere.

    So if you want to challenge Mormon dogma and doctrine may I respectfully suggest that you direct your comments to someone who has a dog in that fight - and that would be a Mormon not an Evangelical.

    Thank you.

    Dec. 13, 2012 4:39 p.m.

    If we really want to know Jesus Christ better, we need to surrender our lives to Him and let Him reveal who He is to us through His Word (the Holy Bible)

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 2:22 p.m.

    RE: Mr_IT, LD S are entitled to believe and say whatever they will. Mormons use KJV only and very few read Greek.
    @The firstborn spirit son of our Heavenly Father.

    Who is the image of “the Invisible God”’ the firstborn (prototokos) of all creation(Col 1:15 NIV) The misunderstanding of the verse is the context and the Greek word.

    First born refers to position of pre-eminence’. Psalm 89:20, David my servant v 27. I will also appoint him my ‘firstborn.’ David was not the literal firstborn of his family but pre-eminent.. First created literally would be prototoktisis a .different Greek word.

    @ only begotten. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten(*mongenes) Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.(John 3:16 KJV)Poor KJV translation.

    For God so loved the world that he gave his “one and only Son,”(*monogenes) that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16 NIV)*does not imply a beginning of his Sonship it must be distinguished from generation as applied to man.

    Dec. 13, 2012 11:14 a.m.

    I'm an evangelical Christian. I found this article condescending and arrogant to the extreme - and I'm not alone. As one of my fellow evangelicals articulated well on Facebook:

    "The level of patronizing superiority in this article is almost palpable. It is an extension of the much loved LdS saying: 'oh, you mainstream Christians have some of the truth, we just have the fullness of it'. Reading it feels like I am being patted on the head."

    Latter-day Saints are, of course, entitled to believe and say whatever they will. However, as the saying goes, "In America we have freedom of speech but not freedom from the consequences of speech."

    And the consequence of "high tone" condescending arrogant is "push back" like this.

    Thank you for letting me share.
    And may God bless us every one.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 9:53 a.m.

    RE: Knowing Christ better at Christmastime’, great intelligence prior to the creation of this world The firstborn spirit son of our Heavenly Fathe.

    And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory(1Tim 3:16).

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, The Word(Jesus) became flesh and made his dwelling among us. (John 1:1,14)Jesus is God. See John 8:24.

    @ “other sheep” (John 10:16), Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the "Gentiles", and that they will hear it.. And Isaiah boldly says, “I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.”