Vigil to emphasize need for immigration reform, advocates say
raybies: 1. I don't go over the speed limit. 2. Families can be together
in their own country
very concerned:Men and women fought for the freedoms that people
(citizens of the United States) have today. Those who are commiting crimes just
by being here illegally do not have these rights and freedoms.
jwb: You put forth happiness and pain, then law and justice. One is opposite one
is the same. How about Justice and Mercy? I am simply
advocating for an emphasis on Mercy through Law. We can change the laws to
accomodate families of dedicated immigrants. All it takes is a little mercy and
faith. I don't think we should be afraid of our freedom, it is
the most precious thing our country has going for it. When people come here, if
they're not kept enslaved, they come to know the glories of this through
hardwork, rewards and making mutual contributions. They do so through
cooperation, and they carry that spirit beyond the borders of our country... as
it should be. The world is in a constant battle against tyranny,
oppression and evil, we are not immune from it, and we should be optimistic that
this God given gift is meant for the whole world. It is time we stopped treating
illegal immigrants as terrorists, and saw them as friends and neighbors. Even if they don't stay, if we treat them with kindness they will
remember that kindness and it will make the whole world a better place.
On selective groups of people.Do you want pilots that can't see
or their hearts on the edge of having a heart attack while you are several
hundred others are in the back? Do you want them to crash into your house at an
unexpected time?Firemen and policemen have requirements due to
security and physical condition, also. Some of those conditions, similar to
military, have been changed to allow a lower condition of employment and society
has pushed for some of those changes, which can be good. However, there are
some things that may be sacrificed with those changes such as physical
requirements of lifting a person out of a burning house and a policeman that has
to deal with a larger person. There is a balance to making changes.Foreign nationals can go into the military with some exceptions. That is a
devotion to duty with no promise of citizenship. However, there is a large
chance for those people to be in combat and pay the price for their ultimate
service.We are a country of promises to the people that want to come
and be citizens. Our nation is made of foreigners of all backgrounds/diversity.
This is a land of Liberty for the world. However, Liberty comes with a price,
and those that come here cannot get here without paying the price, law and
justice, war and peace, happiness and pain, just as the Pilgrims and millions of
others have paid. We have a country that, even though not perfect by far, due
to pride and prejudice, we are far better with our Founding Fathers listening to
the promptings when they made the Declaration of Independence and the
Constitution of the United States and the system to maintain law and order by
our system of government. Those Founding Fathers paid the price themselves
through blood sweat and tears for generations to come. Those initial Fathers of
our Country had to go to war with England to solidify those documents and
principles and attempted invasions and conflicts in 1812, the Alamo, the
Spanish-American war to include the Philippines and Cuba, WWI, WWII, Korea,
Vietnam and the Gulf wars I and II and resulting conflicts after 9/11.We will still have to fight for our freedoms, foreign and domestic, with
people and for principles that our nation was founded on for justice for all.
So what? Everytime you go over the speed limit, you're as evil. Families
should not be broken up over this. We have no business to legally destroy it
with deportation. We should do all we can to keep them together. Compassion. I'm all for law-abiding, but laws can and should
be changed to accomodate the most uplifting and wholesome aspects of society.
What's more wholesome than hardworking individuals caring for one's
wife, children and family?! We complain endlessly about the breakdown of
families, about how marriage is being destroyed through redefinition and
divorce, and here we have families that are being dissembled because someone
living in abject poverty, watching his family starve to death, has the courage
and initiative to do something about it! I say, let them stay. Let
them pay a fine of some sort if you must punish them, and then give them a
legitimate pathway to citizenship. Deport the drug lords, the violent elements,
and the coyotes... but keep families together and here in our country. God has
made this land of liberty, who are we to get in the way of that?
Raybies: Those fully functional families as you put it are committing a crime
just by being here illegally. They take our resources for free which leaves out
help for U.S. citizens. I say that if parents are deported they take their
children with them.
"What a sad, shameful commentary on the consequences of anti-immigration
policies. Thank you D-News for keeping this story alive. We need to
remember."Yes, TMR in L.A.. We do need to remember and folks
that put their families in bad positions should also be reminded that they and
their families are responsible for their actions.Anyone from L.A.
should be able to see what sanctuary cities bring to their citizens.
We were promised that the 1986 amnesty would be the only one. That laws put in
place would stop it. We were told that the 1996 NAFTA would end
illegal immigration. That Mexico would control their side of the border. In the
1996 "reform" we were promised the laws would stop it. Fact
is, comprehensive immigration reform has done nothing in the past, and will not
stop it in the future. It's time our Government kept it's promise to
the American people and enforce the laws.
People, including parents of unsuspecting children, should adhere to the laws
and regulations of the country they are in. If you don't have a visa or
permission to enter the country, it is against the law to be in that country,
legally and morally. There are multiple ways and methods to get into the
country, legally and with permission. The children that are born here, may have
citizen status, but that is not a guarantee for the couple that had the child.
People take a chance when they cross the border and were probably not at a legal
and authorized crossing when they entered. It is not the problem of
enforcement officers when applying the law. The people who crossed the border
knew they had a potential for being detained either at the border, the frontera
or desert that they were crossing in order to get to their location for a pickup
by someone.You take a chance and unfortunately your children also
take a chance when it comes to being detained. It appears that most get
educational and medical attention as agreed to but federal enforcers could also
apply their detaining to others, also.
Sad but lawbreakers bring it on their own selves. The feds ought to be busting
the CEOs first, though. Fine them big the first time. Jail the next. It
won't take long to stop illegals. If you do not want to be separated from
your family, don't come here illegally.
The phrase "broken immigration system" is nothing more nor less than
euphemistic code for "there should be open borders, and those who have
scoffed at and disobeyed U.S. immigration law should be rewarded." If this
group sincerely believed that what they are advocating for is morally right and
fair and good for the country, they wouldn't be obfuscating their true
agenda behind the euphemism, "broken immigration system." The truth of
course is that there is nothing "broken" about the immigration system.
Immigration law simply needs to be enforced for a change."All
politicians... recognize the demographics are changing in this country."Bryan Gutierrez is right about that. The country is being increasingly
overrun by families who disdain this nation, its sovereignty, and its laws. "HB497... could result in racial profiling," he said. A specious argument. Racial profiling potentially could occur with the
enforcement of ANY law. "It is basically attrition by
enforcement."Correct, Mr. Gutierrez. And illegal aliens should
be grateful that Utah allows them the remarkably lenient opportunity to put
their affairs in order, avoid jail time and fines, and return in peace to their
home countries.Parents who come here illegally break up their own
I don't think the Deseret news should be encouraging illegal activity. And the only people I hear using the "less than human" argument is the
pro-illegal people in an attempt to discredit those who want the laws enforced.
. "If your neighbor commits an evil upon another of your
neighbors, you are under obligations to see that the person who has committed
the evil be suitably chastised, as much so as though the wrong had been
committed upon you. Now this is hard to believe; but if you wish to correct
people, and lead them to life and salvation, what difference is it where the
evil is committed, or upon whom? Is it not the duty of a minister of God to
correct evil and take it from an individual or from the people, and place them
upon saving ground, whenever an opportunity presents itself? It is the duty of
every individual. " Brigham Young, vol. 8, pp. 364-368 JOD
I think we need to consider that we have invaded other countries. What is our
moral justification? Because they have terrorist in them? How many
countries have terrorist in them? Our own country has Italian, Chinese,
Japanese, and Russian mobsters: should we invade these countries because some of
their citizens are terrorist? Most of those who caused the 9-11 disaster
were Saudi Arabians. Why did we not invade Saudi Arabia?Why do we
not invade China?There are economic terrorist in China: they steal our
technologies and violate our copyright laws. There are people in China trying
to hack into our computer systems.Why do we not invade Somalia: they
openly have pirates that are attacking American boats?The atrocities being
committed in Africa outweigh anywhere else in the world.How can we fault
Mexicans coming into our country to work; when we have openly invaded other
Middle East counties for no other reason than oil?
The would not have families we we didn't pay them to have them. Every
anchor child brings welfare money to these illegal alien's.
DN Subscriber 2SLC, UTLaws are arbitrary and change over time. Not all laws should be followed (do I have to give examples?) Many
things that are wrong; are not illegal.I and every American citizen
suffered a loss of income due to the wall street-bank bailout. How many
bankers and brokers went to prison?Why is the owner of the Crandall mine
not in prison for nine counts of negligent homicide?When was the last time
a company owner was criminally prosecuted for pollution violations that led to
deaths and sickness?When was the last time a car salesman was prosecuted
for communication fraud?The argument that I was just following
orders/obeying the law; does not always work.
@lket...which explains why states like Utah and Texas are fairing better
than Michigan and Illinois.Unions have their place but common sense
dictates that you cannot pay a worker $75 an hour to turn screws on a glove
compartment, not to mention the legacy costs of pensions.You are right
that the illegal alien problem is primarily a labor problem, but the workers are
no more innocent than those who hire them. Worksite raids coupled with owners
and managers doing the perp walk with the employees is the way to go.
The bad guys are the ones hiring people that are not legal, not the people. They
want a sub cultrue of low paid workers to make more profit. The whole country is
moving that way with right to work laws that allow unions to lose. And the rich
to pay ever lower wages so we can go back 100 years in time and have the robber
barons in power. Our income is not going up for the aveage worker and pay roll
insurance is being done away with in record numbers. Think people 100 years ago
many worked 12 hour days. and children worked with you.
The election over, it must be amnesty season once again.It may surprise
you that the immigration enforcement process has compassion built into it
already. The agency is called BIA and they even train lawyers who want to do
pro bono work to help illegal aliens present their cases. (Of course,
immigration lawyers will represent you...for a fee.)And often these
illegal aliens will be granted their own personal amnesty based on work or
family situation. It happens every day.The trouble is that so many have
entered illegally (about one third of all foreign-born) that these appeals
courts are flooded with work.For my part, I would prefer a swift-and-sure
deportation component because it would deter others from coming here and gaming
the system. But government creates its own problems.If our laws mean
anything we will need to deport more people.
The lingering effects of breaking laws last forever.The benefits
from FOLLOWING the law also last forever.Shame on the Deseret News
for their continued efforts to portray criminals as sympathetic figures.
Instead, you should be following the efforts of the wonderful people who OBEY
the laws, come here LEGALLY, work hard, and prosper among us.When
someone chooses to break laws, they alone are responsible for the bad
consequences the harm them. I am sorry these people made bad choices, but they
can repent, and do the right thing, if they choose to do so.
@The ScientistClever post, but - in my opinion - inaccurate. "I
think laws that keep people out of another group are bad laws." is too broad
of a staement.Here are some examples of groups that rightly exclude
some people from membership: policemen and firemen, the military, law practice,
doctors, voters (discriminated by both age and citizenship), who can legally
come and work here, who can serve in government offices. If we fought for
everyting to be "equal", we'd have to force the NFL to hire
50-year-old, small, and weak people as players. We'd have to let the likes
of the Taliban (if not citizens and not born in the U.S.) run for president and
let children be doctors or judges. Selective membership and
priveliges are at the heart of organized religion! The constitutionally
protected operation of religion would be hugely trampled without it.
Food for Thought: While serving a Spanish speaking LDS mission in the United
States, I met and taught many people who came to the U.S. illegally. I
specifically asked my mission president, who asked area authorities if these
people could still qualify for baptism, even though they were technically
breaking the law. I was told that it was okay to baptize them. Maybe observing
how the Church views these people can help soften some of the harsh opinions
that I see whenever a story on immigration comes up. Do we need to
have a secure and enforced method of monitoring immigration into our country?
Absolutely. Do we need to look at people who have immigrated here
illegally as less-than-human scum? Absolutely not.
The anti-immigration attitude of utah conservatives is just wrong. When my
grandmother came over the beginning of last century she did not have to jump
through a bunch of hoops. checked for TB and have a good day.I have no
problem with someone who wants to come to this country and work.People act
like they own this land. Anytime we could be swept off and replaced with someone
else.Mexican immigrants did not cause all the problems in this country.
They did not raise the cost of oil, they did not force people to buy bigger
houses then they could afford.
For those who hit me with scriptures... saying they deserve what they get,
here's one for y'all... Mosiah 4:17-19 17 Perhaps
thou shalt say: The man has brought upon himself his misery; therefore I will
stay my hand, and will not give unto him of my food, nor impart unto him of my
substance that he may not suffer, for his punishments are just— 18 But I say unto you, O man, whosoever doeth this the same hath great cause
to repent; and except he repenteth of that which he hath done he perisheth
forever, and hath no interest in the kingdom of God. 19 For behold,
are we not all beggars? Do we not all depend upon the same Being, even God, for
all the substance which we have, for both food and raiment, and for gold, and
for silver, and for all the riches which we have of every kind? What
did you do to earn your way into this country? We've a wonderful blessing
of freedom here. That gift should be shared. Doing so will make this whole world
a better place.
Suprise surprise, the deseret news is at it again, publishing tear jerker
stories about illegals, and the kids of illegals who are suffering for the bad
decisions of their parents. Give it up DN. Law breakers need to be punished,
just as the rest of us are punished if we break the laws of the land. The people of Utah are very compassionate and charitable, but we will not
tolerate those who break our immigration laws and spit on our country, no matter
what propaganda the media and the corrupt business leaders throw out there.
I think laws that keep people out of another group are bad laws. Not only should
the borders be open to everyone to come and go as they please, without any
standards, qualifications, or laws, but the LDS Temples should be the same -
anyone should be able to come and go at will, with no laws, or rules, or
standards impairing their freedoms.Certainly, the owners of the
Deseret News can be consistent and advocate for both positions, right?Who is with me?
What a sad, shameful commentary on the consequences of anti-immigration
policies. Thank you D-News for keeping this story alive. We need to remember.
I've lived in Hyrum for decades and have relatives in most of the small
surrounding communities. I've not seen nor heard of any long term effects
from that raid 6 years ago. I would think the only ones still effected are those
who are still here illegally and some of their close family members who all
fully understood the risks involved. Every single person who sneaks into
any country in the world illegally (not just the USA) fully understands they are
taking the risk of getting caught, separated from their family and exported.
Some of those caught (or their family members) will then seek to find a bleeding
heart outlet, such as whoever wrote this story, to try to generate community
sympathy. Unfortunately for them, polls still indicate that the majority of
citizens in this country are still opposed to illegal immigration and want our
existing laws enforced even more stringently, which is why states are passing
their own laws. Regardless of motives, illegal immigration has a negative
effect on our unemployed citizens seeking work. Millions of jobs are directly
effected. Heart-sob stories will never change the actual facts.
And as for jobs, it’s not a zero-sum game. If people came legally and
with the faith of the country, they would be consumers too, which would lead to
more jobs for everyone. Also, they have proven they would take the menial jobs
fewer of us will do, until they – through the “American Dream”
– would be able to move up. I believe we have the room and capacity to
take them in. All I’m saying is that I believe we should
welcome good people, making it easier for greater numbers to come. The way it
is, we have 10’s of millions of criminals (by very definition) and no one
will win. If we let more in legally, we will have a larger number of engaged
However, IF we are NOT going to change the laws (which I believe do need to be
changed) then we need to enforce the ones we DO have. Having laws on the books
that we ourselves ignore is not a healthy thing for a nation ruled by law. But if more could come legally, then we would have larger numbers of
loyal citizens who would be obligated to take on the duties of citizenship
rather than try to remain in the shadows and not get caught. Some of those
duties and contributions would be very beneficial for the country. For example,
paying taxes, serving in the military, etc.
Regarding immigration, most of the comments so far have been about illegal
aliens bringing their problems on themselves (i.e. deportation) by coming here
illegally. I agree with that. Enforcement is inadequate. I agree with that .
. . . considering the laws we have currently on the books.What I
would like to add is that I believe we should be freer with how many we let into
this country legally. I have said it before that our country was built on the
backs of legal immigrants: Europeans, Asians, Scandinavians, etc. They came,
worked hard, became citizens, and contributed. The first generation often did
not learn English. But there were laws and procedures in place to assure (as
much as was possible) we were letting in honest, hardworking people. We could
do it again. Remember, we, or our ancestors, all immigrated here. I believe
our country would benefit from more responsible, family-oriented legal
immigrants. As it is now, there seems to be too strict of a quota.
When one decides to break the law (immigration or otherwise), bad things can
happen. Don't blame the law.
"Raybies" I'm curious. Do you think we should accept any/all
immigrant trespassers from ALL nations, or just the ones who sneak over our
southern border?There is in the neighborhood of 2 billion folks who
would like to be here (especially if we provide free stuff). Do you think we
can afford it, or are you ONLY partial to illegal trespassers from the southern
hemisphere?BTW - you DO understand (I hope) that most of them have
stolen identities they are working with. If mom and dad get caught with stolen
identities, should we:a) feel sorry for themb) call the owner
of the stolen identities and tell them "tough luck"c) forget the
whole thing and pretend that families should "stay together"BTW - I welcome an answer from anyone!
What about the poor guy that just wants a bigger TV for his family so he breaks
into your house because you have a 65 inch? Have some compassion, he just wants
to help his family. Don't break them up by putting him in jail because that
isn't right! He was just doing what he thought was best for them.
More pathetic "open border" propaganda by the DesNews. The fact is all
of us are free to choose our actions. There are, however, consequences for our
actions.It's just that the DesNews wants to get rid of the
consequences for a selected group of people. Why? Maybe they ought to explain
that. I'm not easily duped into thinking this is about compassion.I'm inclined to believe it has more to do with gain. Several groups and
entities are hoping to gain through open borders: (1) the Democratic Party to
solidify one-party national rule, (2) businesses that employ cheap illegal
immigrant workers (wonder why our unemployment is up?), (3) businesses that
cater to that group (including DesNews, which owns El Observador), (4) churches
obviously want to be seen as the "good guy" in order to attract
12th Article of Faith.
These families don't have to be seperated. They are all free to return
together to their own country. No one is stopping them from doing so.This is a sad situation that, I think, we are all somewhat conflicted about.
But, the fact is that none of this would have happened if these people
hadn't broken the law by coming to a country where they had no right to
be.We cannot lose control of our own borders. We have to be
vigilant about how many people we let me.
Try crossing any other country's borders illegally and see what happens!
Commentators here are exactly right when they say that the only thing broken
here is that we don't enforce our own laws. Illegals - don't come to
me crying a river when it was your choice to break up your family in the first
place, for whatever reason. I've got friends from south of the border who
have spent MANY YEARS and MANY DOLLARS doing it all the right way, and they are
properly outraged at those who do it illegally. I also have those in my own
family who have taken the time and money to comply with the law in order to earn
the right to live here. I just wish there were some way to effectively seal our
borders from ALL illegals - and that we had the political leaders with the guts
to enforce the law.
It is very evident that most all of the above comments were made by citizens
that understand the circumstances behind this and other raids by ICE on
employers that have chosen to break the law by hiring illegals. Why is it so
difficult for some of our elected leaders to see this and do something to
protect the citizens of their constituency?It is shameful that
enforcement of American laws is blamed for breaking up families when it really
is the arrogance of these illegal fathers and mothers who come from other
countries without proper permission to take advantage of the benefits and values
of American citizenship.Speaking of compassion is a misplaced
The first four comments here were right on. Then a bleeding heart pops up. These
people know before they violate immigration law exactly what the penalties are.
Knowing that they choose to risk those penalties and then cry when they are
caught and then want the law changed for them. The words reform and broken
immigration system are pure bunk. What is not bunk is enforcement.There is not
enough of it. Swift and sure enforcment is what is needed and that is what is
broken in the system. Famlies are separated every day for various reasons.
Crime,Military deployment, death etc. So cry me a river.
At your house, day or night, just leave the front door wide open. See what
would happen, honestly? Now think of the borders?? Perhaps a little more law and
order would be appreciated!
We can do better as a state and community. The poor kid's story is exactly
what should never happen when it comes to deportation. Fully functioning
families are not the enemy, and our intent should not be to break them up. We
should be looking to remove the criminals that bring negative influences, drugs,
violence, and gangs into our communities. Our schools should put more effort
into fully integrating these kids and helping them to meld with our values and
culture, so that regardless of whether they stay or go, we leave them better off
than they were. Utah values families. If we hurt our neighbors we hurt
ourselves. If we work together we can create an environment that creates
long-lasting social contributors, a rich tapestry of contributors to the overall
peace of a community. We have a lot of social and economic problems,
but breaking up illegal families isn't a solution, nor should it be our
goal. A strong family should be supported over any other social construct.
It's time we stopped shooting ourselves in the foot.
Demographics have nothing to do with it. Follow the laws, and you don't
have these problems. If we enforce the laws, people will be motivated to follow
them. We are in control of our own dreams. Demanding others fulfill
our dreams is wrong. Half my family came here from Mexico legally over several
years. Making your dreams come true takes time. You need to take control of your
life and achieve them by doing what's right. Swifts is a good
example about returning people to work that have a legal right to work, and
removing those who don't.
The breaking up of families comes from breaking immigration laws. Don't
break the law, don't be separated from your family. The fact that they can
be reunited in their home country shows most choose to be separated. That's
their decision, not the law.American citizens are separated from
family all the time when they break laws, no compassion for them?Followup: Swifts could not make it using legal labor, so they sold the company
to a Brazilian corporation that had record profits in a couple of years. Illegal
immigration is hiding poor business leadership skills by some in our business
Moral to the story: Illegally trespassing in a country not your own brings bad
consequequences. Similarly, families are COMMONLY broken up when a member of
the family has to go to jail. Where's the outcry over THAT?The
problem is easily (and cheaply) solved by mandating e-verify.Maybe
the DN should add that to their story?BTW - I remember the
"raid", and the way I remember it INS made EVERY effort possible to
carry out their duties with compassion.When someone is breaking the
law; how much "compassion" should there be?