Wookie I won't lie, your constant attempts to make this into a religious
issue are embarrassing to others of us that are Utah fans. The fact is that most
Utah fans are also LDS and we have every bit as much a responsibility to
represent our religion as the BYU fans do, or don't. Remember this is about
sports and supporting a school. Just because one of the schools is owned by a
church it doesn't mean that the fans that support it are any more, or less,
responsible to behave a certain way than any other. Please refrain
from trying to turn it into a religious issue as that is actually the lower
behavior than someone mocking fans or the schools themselves.
WHS FanHere's an idea, if your comments can't make it
here, go to the "other" paper. I have had several
'tongue in cheek', humorous, sarcastic zinger comments that never make
it either but you don't see me whining about it. The Dnews has their
reasons. It's a well known fact that the "other" paper
allows almost anything.There's a level of civility found here
and maybe through your crimson colored glasses some bias.It's
'no holds barred' at the "other" paper so if your comments fit
there by all means you should go there.Happy Holidays and Happy Non
Post Season to you and all my Ute "friends"
Deseret news it is amazing you let these BYU fans make the comments they do but
never post one of mine. Clearly you are biased. It's time I read the
@Solomon Levi:I am not a coach so I am not certain what they use as
a "measuring stick", I believe that wins/loses is one way of measuring
improvement, but I am certain, especially in academia, that there are other
measurements used (i.e., graduation rate, personal improvment etc...). This is
besides the point, I was merely stating how does one determine what number shows
signs of improvement? Again, just because a link takes you to a BYU page does
not make this a BYU article, rather it references a BYU article. I did not say
that I agreed or disagreed with one's opinion, rather I was clearly
pointing out that contentious statements serve no point.
WookieIf you don't use wins/losses to measure improvement, what
do you use?Just because someone posts an opinion that you don't
agree with, doesn't mean it's meant to be contentious.btw,
your so-called "Utah" article contains 6 specific references to BYU or
Cougars, including a link to a BYU team page.
PACute, you assume way too much in your response. If this is a BYU article,
then enlighten me on why it is not accessible from the BYU link? As for
hypocrisy, I don't think I mentioned anything about U fans who behave
inappropriately or assumed anything about their faith. That is an assumption
made by you. I am merely commenting upon a poster who constantly trolls U
message boards seeking to spew negative and contentious statements. I only
asked how he came up with the arbitrary numbers to determine improvement.
Sometimes wins/loses do not accurately measure growth.
WookieIt's silly to claim this is a "Utah" message
board, when the article is about the BYU-Utah game?Besides, at least
half of the Utah posters are LDS who profess to follow the same principles of
behavior. Why aren't you castigating them?The Bible, which most
Christians believe in, also teaches something about hypocrisy and unrighteous
judgement. Look it up."Anyway, so what if they win 2,5, or 8
conference games?"Your so-called "arbitrary" numbers
will be used by BYU and Utah fans unlike to judge whether the Utes actually did
improve, since Utah's pathetically weak pre-season schedule doesn't
offer much of a measuring stick.
@ Troy Town:I had no idea you were the barometer for determining
when a team improves? Thank you for sharing your college basketball expertise.
This is a U message board and thus there is no need for Y fans to come and
"stir-the-pot", especially since they espouse to follow a Faith that
preaches/teaches against such behavior. Anyway, so what if they win 2,5, or 8
conference games? I love arbitrary numbers.
PAC manUtah apologists such as Uteology like to pretend that Utah
operates in a vacuum and that the Utes missing their final 8 shots had nothing
to do with the Cougars tightening their defense.The truth is,
BYU's zone defense clogged the paint, forcing the Utes to take lower
percentage shots from long range. The strategy obviously worked.
Uteology"Rose did a such a great job of adjusting that he needed
Utah to miss our last 8 shots to eke out a win."Sorry, but your
crimson bubble is affecting your view of reality.Rose's great
job of switching to a matchup zone defense confused Utah's offense sets and
forced the Utes into throwing up awkward shots resulting in the Utes missing
their last 8 shots including a desperation 3 at the buzzer.Home or
away, the Utes would have faded to the better team.
@Snack PACKrystko gambled on a game plan that the officials went
along with.Rose adjusted and Utah didn't have an answer. Game
over.-------------Rose did a such a great job of
adjusting that he needed Utah to miss our last 8 shots to eke out a win.Coach K also did a great job of gambling on the defense against Boise.
The difference at home we dominated all game, on the road we
dominated a half with nerves taking over down the stretch.
Is 58-61 a moral victory? No!But Ducky and his ilk complaining
about "officiating" and "physical play" on their OWN court when
BYU was a 20+ point favorite is a great sign that Utah is on the right track.
Any BYU fan that thinks that is a good BYU team is delusional. They won't
get NCAA bid this year. Mark my word!
DuckRevengeWhy are you whining about negative and contentious
comments when that's pretty much the norm for Utah fans commenting about
BYU?Utah is improving, but a win over an unexpectedly decent Boise
State and a closer than expected loss to BYU is hardly proof that the Utes are
"back" to average, let alone competitive.Any objective fan
looking at Utah's pre-season schedule could have told you that it would be
nearly impossible for the Utes not to "improve" playing that schedule.
The acid test to significant improvement will come during the weekly conference
grind.With 3-15 as the conference benchmark3 wins - no
improvement6 wins - some improvement9 wins - marked improvementLikely improvement - 6 conference wins, which would improve Utah's
conference standing from 11th to 10th.
It is ammusing to see the total and complete infatuation with the U program from
some Y fans. Dave Rose has BYU on very solid ground and the Utes are only
begining to bring their program back from a historic low. Indifference would be
more appropriate. Why byu fans like Sammyg, duckhunter and others would be so
incredulous over the Utes fans having a little somthing to be encouraged by is
Snack pac"If BYU shoots anywhere close to their average, BYU wins the
game handily"If Utah shot their average they win the game easily,
duh...I agree on the switching to the zone, it was the difference. I am
sure coach K realizes other teams will zone him the rest of the year if they do
not get better at defeating it.
Ah, leave it to our avid bird hunter to come and "stir the pot" with his
contentious comments. Do you find joy in reading U posts and spewing negative
contentious comments? Your comments are almost predictable. Aside from such
comments, this is a great article, the Utes are growing and will continue to
improve. Great coach and good system. Go UTES!!
Utah is improved over last year. Utah has two solid players to build on
(Bachynski and Loveridge). I'm not sure that any other assumptions can be
made about Utah, after one unexpected win (BSU) and a closer than expected loss
(BYU). The other games have gone as planned against a very weak non-conference
schedule. At home against SMU and versus an athletic CSNR will tell us more
about the Utes. I still think a few conference wins is about all that can be
expected. BYU is not improved from last year. This is the weakest
BYU team in 7 - 8 years, and likely the weakest for the next 7 - 8 years.
Beyond Davies and Haws, we don't have much. Carlino and Zylsta are streaky
like last year. They'll have some good games and some duds.I'm hoping Carlino will become more consistent. He's the key to us
challenging St Mary's for the #2 spot in the WCC and becoming NCAA
eligible. I'm giving the WCC crown to the Zags already.
It was obviously a physical game, and I hate to complain about the refs.The biggest reason in my mind that Utah lost the game is that they started to
jack up 3 pointers early in the shot clock down the stretch instead of being
patient and waiting for the shot like they had been in the first half. They
started to act like they had to match BYU shot for shot on 3 pointers when they
were still up by 5 and could milk the clock and get easier buckets and hold them
off. The Cougars got hot at the end and the Utes made some mistakes that
they can hopefully learn from. Hopefully just rookie mistakes and getting a
little rattled by the environment. All things that can be fixed. The team is
showing improvement. Good game BYU, hopefully the Utes can start to keep
it more competitive in the future.
It was a very physical game and yes many more fouls could have been called. But
the game was decided on the shooting woes of both teams. Early on, BYU missed
several open, uncontested shots. Had even half of those fallen, Utah would have
needed to adjust its box and one and given Haws more freedom. That in itself
would have changed the game. In the 2nd half, BYU took the paint away from
Utah. This was a big factor in BYU's comeback and eventually getting a
lead they were able to cling to. When Utah lost the paint and could not hit
their perimeter shots, they lost the momentum they had.The game is
about putting the ball in the hole. When you can only do that 30% of the time
you are going to lose many games. This game was somewhat unique because both
teams shot poorly. Especially disconcerting was that many of the missed shots
for both teams were open makable perimeter shots. In years past, both teams had
players that were near automatic when allowed those shots.Neither
team should be bragging. Both played poorly.
Snack PAC, we all watched the game. I think it was evenly called, why does
everybody whine about refs? I mean, really, it is whining. Can't we just
say it was a great game between two teams that wanted it, and BYU won it in the
end? Props to you guys, and props to the Utah coaches and players that put
together and executed a very effective game plan. There will always, ALWAYS be
bad calls or missed calls for both sides, every game. That's part of the
game; it's basketball. Good game BYU, thanks for the very entertaining
game. And, of course,Go Utes!
ThIf BYU shoots anywhere close to their average, BYU wins the game
handily.The good news for Utah: the Utes held BYU to 31.1 FG%. The bad news: BYU shot 31.1% or worse only 27 times since 1960-61 and
BYU lost all but three of those games. Congratulations to the Utes on joining a
rather unique club.The last time BYU won a game shooting 31.1% or
worse was 12/29/99 at UC Santa Barbarbra, where BYU beat the Gauchos while only
shooting 29.6%.Utah lost the game because BYU switched to a matchup
zone defense, confusing the Utes, taking them out of their sets, and forcing
awkward shots.Krystko gambled on a game plan that the officials went
along with.Rose adjusted and Utah didn't have an answer. Game over.
CB. My goodness. It has been a pleasure embarrassing the Utes fan base for the
last 12 games. Now and then giving them hope then ripping their heart out at
games end felt equally satisfying. Sorry Chris, top ten recruiting class coming
in along with Kyle Collinsworth coming back. Get used to the embarrassment.
Snack PAC, I'm not whining about Haws getting away with pushing off, it was
a physical game and was called as such. But IF they were going to be calling
ticky-tack fouls that you seem to consider "mugging," then yes, they
likely would have been calling offensive fouls on Haws for that. And again, just
watch the tape again, and you'll see the first two rebounds Haws gets boxed
out on the rebound, tries to fight through it and got himself tangled up. If
anything, that's an over the back call on Haws, but in that physical of a
game, the no call makes more sense. Later in the game, he did a better job of
positioning himself to earn offensive rebounds, so I'd say that was a
valuable learning experience for him. You guys are making this game out to be
John Chaney's Temple goon squad, throwing out personal character attacks at
people you know nothing about, and not appreciating it for what it was at all,
which was a good, hard-fought basketball game between two rivals.
SnackpackI think it was obvious that the refs were going to let them
play physical when Brandon Davies came out and body checked Glenn Dean on Utahs
very first posession. I know you think that Haws was just standing still when
both he and Martin went to the floor. Davies played soft in the first half which
is why he was dominated. The refs had nothing to do with him being dominated.In the second half they called it much tighter on Utah when they began
calling touch fouls on Utah on a couple of three point plays that were weak
calls at best. Even the last call that Haws got was weak.As a Utah
fan and someone who played at the collegiate level, I can say that Utah lost
this game because they forced shots and made some bad decisions at the guard
position down the stretch. I could take the role of you and say that any time we
tried to penetrate, the cougar guards were hacking and slapping but Im not going
there. Utah had some open misses down the stretch. If Utah makes one of the open
3s they missed, they win the game!
utahcountyuteThe box score comparison of fouls called is meaningless
to anyone who actually attended the game and could clearly see the gangsta play
of the Utes. The refs could have put a stop to it by simply calling a few fouls
early on to send a message. Instead, they swallowed their whistles on Haws
literally being tackled, TWICE, in the first couple of minutes of the game. When
nothing was called on those two plays, the Utes were given a green light to grab
and push with abandon throughout the game.It's laughable that
Utah fans are whining about Haws "getting away with" pushing off late in
the game, after all of the muggings the Utes got away with before then.Bottom line: BYU found a way to win despite the gangsta tactics of Utah.
One game where Utah played better than average and BYU's game was below
average does not create a trend. Lets see how the rest of the season plays out
for both teams in league play before we predict the future.
Two For Flinching, actually Sharp missed both of the free throws coming off
Washburn's phantom over the back, but it was still more than a two-point
swing because it gave Wash a foul he didn't actually commit, gave a team
foul and took away the shot made by Renan. Definitely not citing it as a reason
for the loss, BYU earned the win by making their shots when Utah didn't,
but yes, those two calls were inexcusable given the situation.
@ DuckhunterYes, but the increase in ability on this Utah team is
obvious. We are just excited to see good basketball being played in the
Huntsman again. Is that really a reason to troll?@ Snack PACStop whining about the refs. Bachynski had four fouls early in the 2nd
half. Lens had three fouls in only seven minutes. I don't know where you
got the idea that Utah got away with everything. Not to mention, down the
stretch there was on over the back call on Washburn and BYU knocked the ball out
of bounds under Utah's basketball and the ball was awarded to BYU. Both of
those calls were horrible, and BYU scored 5 points as a result of those calls...
snackYou might want to check the box score. How is it that byU was
charged with only 15 fouls and Utah 21? Haws was on the line for his
last 10 points. Bring the fouls charged against the Utes to 18 and 15 for the
cougs, and the Utes win. Please don't bring up the fouls
anymore, it's just silly.
U 90You're making a HUGE assumption that a coach who has 6
consecutive 25+ win seasons won't be able to adjust to teams throwing a box
and one on Haws. And, not every game BYU plays will be officiated by the three
blind mice. Some officials actually call fouls for the muggings Haws and Davies
were subjected to throughout the game.
Delusion is rampant on the hill. You guys realize that you LOST don't
SammyIt may turn out to be cute for byu's future opponents who
now have a blueprint on how to hold hawes and Davies under their season averages
No, not a moral victory, but made me pumped about the future. Loveridge is
legit. Bachynski or however you spell it is a monster. I think
we'll finish middle of the Pac 12 this year, which would be an amazing
accomplishment.Coach K is going to take this program places. And
we're not far out. I say one more year and we'll be in the big dance.
With USU and BYU very average WAC/WCC teams this year - Utah likely will be the
best team by the end of the season.
If that game were played in the Huntsman Center it wouldn't have been
close. The Utes would have won in a blowout. Part of maturing as a team and a
program overall is learning how to overcome adversity during a game and win on
the road.With that said, I love the direction the program is
BYU is clearly better than Utah in basketball this year, and likely will be next
year. I am glad to see the utes getting better under krystkowiak, and they will
be competitive again in a year or two, but i'm not saying they will be
better than BYU, coach Rose will have them ready to play every year for years to
come I think.
Coach K may have discounted the moral victory but certain Ute fans are sure
slobbering over themselves lately like this fan..."The message
has been sent though, the best basketball school in the state is on it's
way back!" Ah, ain't it cute?