@ CordonBleu 2:09 p.m. Dec. 7, 2012"When was the last time Utah
won back to back conference championships?"Its been at least 2
yrs since the sons of Provo have.
@ phoenix 3:32 p.m. Dec. 4, 2012"2008 was a fluke. The Utes were VERY fortunate to beat TCU and Oregon State at home, and barely
survived beating Michigan(3-9) 25-23, Air Force(8-5) 30-23, and New Mexico(4-8)
13-10 on the road."The really good teams find a way & have
the will to win.I'm all for giving K-whit 2 to 3 more yrs to
see what his 1st P12 recruiting class is made of. The OL play was an anomaly.Further, it'll be interesting to see what the Utes can do w/ a more
experienced Brain J & T Wilson having more experience. p.s. I
can say w/ 397% certainty that Johnson > Doman.
@ U90I'm calling you crazy.
I just can't bash Utah football even though I want to. My Cougars have to
beat them first. I feel like BYU has been the better "team" the last 3
years yet somehow we lay a complete egg against Utah. So, until we win again, I
will remail silent.
To BYU fans. I'm a Ute fan, and I'm just going to root for the Utes.
Why don't you worry about your Cougs. By the way, hopefully you can beat
Utah again in the near future, since the rivalry has lost a bit of the zest it
once had. Both teams need to win in a rivalry, and the Cougs have struggled
with that. Merry Christmas.
Many of the BYU bloggers like to run down and call the Utes a bad football
program with no tradition, yet at the same time they ignore the fact that this
same program has literally owned them when compairing the past 5, 10, 15, 20,
and all time records.
CordonBleu,Just the Fax wrote, "Would you agree that a team that
can't beat good PAC 12 teams on the road doesn't stand a chance of
running the table to win a PAC 12 title?"Call me crazy, but I
think he's saying Utah's future prospects winning a PAC 12 title are
Spokane UteWhen was the last time Utah won back to back conference
championships?One game does not a season make, which is precisely
why Utah has been so inept at winning conference championships. Utah
fans have become accustomed to the Utes getting up for big games, like BYU, and
then falling asleep against lesser foes, like Colorado.Utah has only
won SIX conference championships in the last HALF CENTURY and Urban Meyer is the
ONLY Utah coach to win back to back championships (2003, 2004) since the
50's.Conference championships are something Utah just
doesn't do, which makes your playoff predictions all the more far
fetched.Conference ChampionshipsLast 50 YearsBYU
23Utah 6Bronco/Kyle eraBronco 2Kyle 1-------U 90I didn't read anywhere in Just the FAX
post that said Utah's future PAC 12 prospects were hopeless. He did,
however, suggest that it could be a looooong time before Utah has another
phantomblade,Take a deep breath. You need to read all the posts and
understand the context of the thread. The conversation started when Duckhunter
stated that Utah will never again have an undefeated or one loss season, and
Just Fax says Utah's future prospects in the PAC 12are hopeless. Read my
posts again and understand that all I am saying is there is hope that Utah will
occasionally compete for the south and possibly a BCS bowl given their track
record. Nevertheless, thanks for all of the research and stats
When was the last time BYU actually beat Utah?Zing...............
U 90Your hyperbole notwithstanding, BYU was four plays away from
being 11-1 and having a legitimate shot at playing in a BCS game.Unlike BYU, Utah has no history of putting back-to-back great seasons
together, which is what it's going to take for the Utes to build enough
momentum to get into the playoffs.When has Utah ever had
back-to-back Top 15 finishes? When has Utah had FIVE Top 12 finishes
in SIX years?When has Utah ever managed back-to-back-to-back Top 25
finishes in both polls?BYU:Back-to-back Top 7 finishes:
1983-1984Back-to-back-to-back Top 12 finishes: 1979-1980-1981Back-to-back-to-back Top 20 finishes: 1983-1984-1985Back-to-back Top 15
finishes: 2006-2007Back-to-back-to-back-to-back Top 18 finishes:
2006-2007-2008-2009Utah:Back-to-back Top 18 finishes:
2008-2009Utah fans talk about beating ranked teams, but Utah is
seldom ranked. Why is that?BYU has THREE strings of
back-to-back-to-back Top 25 finishes in both polls.Utah has never even had
skywalker, your team just wasn't that good. Five wins against Idaho, New
mexico State, Hawaii, Washington State and Weber state. And then you lost to
lowly Utah. Like I said, your team wasn't that good.swoop,
Yeah, yeah, we know BYU was 23 plays away from a perfect season and a #1
ranking.... and so was every other college football team in America.
Just Fax,Do you not agree that when Utah is able to put together
another team like 04 or 08 that winning road games in the PAC 12 will happen
more often. The first 2 years in the PAC12 have been disappointing driven by
Whit's mishandling of the QB position but I believe he has learned his
lesson.Since the 80's Utah and BYU have played a similar number
of games against PAC12 teams. If I told you that BYU hasn't beaten a PAC12
team on the road with a winning record since 1983 does that make you believe
BYU's future is hopeless? I didn't think so. You see, your stats
don't prove hopelessness for Utah. In 2002 things didn't look good
but then 2003 and 04 happened. In 2007 things didn't look good either, but
then 2008 happened. Like I said, your stats don't prove hopelessness.Given Utah has demonstrated the ability to beat 4 ranked teams in one
season and 3 ranked teams in another season (something BYU has never done) it
gives me confidence that Utah will occasionally put together strong teams that
will compete for the PAC 12 South and possibly another BCS bowl game.
Two For FlinchingTry not to confuse sincere praise with Utah fan
jealousy.Notre Dame was fortunate to escape with a win. Had
Riley's errant pass to a wide-open Hoffman late in the 2nd half been on
target, BYU would have beaten the Fighting Irish.
SkywalkerThe next time a coach doesn't build up the opponent
after a win, it will be the first. Don't confuse coach speak with a genuine
"Play in a big boy conference, otherwise, good luck competing with
Army...."Actually, BYU is competing with Notre Dame...which, in case you hadn't noticed, is doing quite well this year, and
against which, BYU was VERY competitive.After going 17 quarters
without giving up an offensive touchdown, Notre Dame gave up two in a span of
2:18 as Riley Nelson threw a 6-yard scoring pass to a wide-open Cody Hoffman in
the end zone and a 2-yard pass to Kaneakua Friel after an interception by Kyle
Van Noy.That put BYU up 14-7 at halftime.Final score:UND 17BYU 14After the game, Notre Dame Head Coach Brian
Kelly said, "That's a bracket buster team in basketball parlance,
that's a darned good football team."I guess we could accept
your biased opinion of BYU, or we could acknowledge the professional opinion of
someone who really knows the game and what it takes to compete at the national
level.With Notre Dame, Texas, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Georgia Tech,
Virginia, Boise State, and Michigan, among others, on future BYU schedules, the
Cougars will have plenty of opportunities every season to compete against the
U 90Would you agree that a team that can't beat good PAC 12
teams on the road doesn't stand a chance of running the table to win a PAC
12 title?The Utes haven't had a road win against a PAC 12
opponent with a winning record since the 90's, and after two seasons in the
conference, the Utes still haven't beaten a PAC 12 foe with a winning
record.You may point to 2008 as evidence that Utah isn't just a
2004 one hit wonder and that the Utes could be a conference contender relatively
soon.I'll point to 1964 when the Utes won their first WAC
championship, won a bowl game, and cracked the polls, albeit only the Coaches
Poll, for the first time.It took the Utes 28 years to play in
another bowl (1992), 30 years to crack the polls again (1994), 31 years to win
another conference championship (1995), and almost 40 years to accomplish all
three again in the same year (2003).It remains to be seen whether it
will be 4 years or 40 years before the Utes win their next outright conference
Whittingham would be wise to update his LinkedIn profile.
@ Duckhunter, "I personally think the point is moot as we will never
see an undefeated, or for that matter 1 loss, utah team again. It is not going
to happen, ever." Yeah, and that's what you were personally
thinking in 2003 and 2007.
When Utah goes undefeated, and doesn't play for the National Championship I
will stand on my head and spit out Nickelz! Deal? Never gonna
happen, but keep telling your self otherwise. what a joke....Play in
a big boy conference, otherwise, good luck competing with Army....
@ WhatsnuI'm not saying Utah will be picked over Bama, Texas,
tOSU, and ND. I'm saying (undefeated) Utah would be picked WITH three of
them to compete. I know the traditional powers can receive preferential
seeding. But I think that with so few teams in this format, the "RPI"
will trump the "name brand" effect the vast majority of the time.@ DuckhunterChis B is a troll and you will never hear me
defend him. However, You shouldn't be proud that you are slightly less
ridiculous than the most ridiculous poster on this site. At the end of the day,
you're still speaking in absolutes, which is a poor and ineffective way to
make a point.That being said, I don't care if you post on Utah
articles or not. Occasionally you make good points and spark interesting
Two For FlinchingThe thing Utah fans don't seem to understand
in this entire hypothetical argument about an undefeated PAC 12 champion Utah
being a lock for a 4-team playoff spot is this...all four teams will
be selected by a committee much like the NCAA basketball selection committee,
and as we've all seen, traditional powers ALWAYS receive preferential
seeding, regardless of RPI.The mere thought that Utah would be
picked over elite teams like Alabama, Texas, Ohio State and Notre Dame is
ludicrous. Utah will have to have an absolutely sterling record with no
blemishes just to be in the discussion. Playing Weber State instead of BYU could
easily be the kiss of death for Utah's playoff chances.But, of
course, like Duckhunter said, the chances of Utah even getting to that point are
so remote, that it's a waste of time even speculate about it.
@two forLet's put it this way, my prediction of utah never
going undefeated again is far more likely than christina b's predictions of
utah winning the pac12 and going to the rose bowl every year. But I'll tell
you what, if utah EVER goes undefeated at any time for the remainder of my life
I will never, ever, not one time, post anything on a utah article. Never. I'll be posting for the rest of my life.
Utah's SOS this year is higher than 'Bama's, Georgia's,
Oregon's, AND Notre Dame's. If Utah had ran the table this season
there is no way the Utes would be left out of a 4-team playoff. Especially
considering that the Utes would have been fresh off a victory over a top 10 team
in the CCG. I realize that Utah doesn't have the "name
recognition", but that's not how the committee is going to be picking
teams to fill the four slots. They will look at each team's resume, and
the "undefeated PAC-12 champs" with a SOS higher than any other team in
contention would be a lock for a spot. @ DuckhunterYou
must be a rich man with your ability to predict the future with such
Spokane Ute"If Utah wins out, they will play in the 4 team
playoff. It doesn't matter if they play Lone Peak, Bingham and Highland HS
in the non conference. Don't kid your self. Again, answer the question; who
did Oregon play in non-conference games this year."Oregon played
Arkansas St, Fresno St, and Tennessee Tech and finished #4 in the BCS, which you
think proves that an undefeated PAC 12 champion Utah would be a lock for a
4-team playoff.Unfortunately, you have some fatal flaws in that
analysis, not the least of which is an eligible Ohio State would have pushed
Oregon to 5th. AP Poll (which includes ineligible Ohio St)1.
Notre Dame(12-0)2. Alabama(11-1)3. Ohio State(12-0)4.
Florida(11-1)5. Oregon(11-1)6. Georgia(11-2)Notice two
one-loss SEC teams ahead of Oregon and a two-loss SEC team right on
Oregon's heels.Throw in an undefeated Oklahoma or Texas in a
future season, and even an undefeated Oregon could have been shut out of the
playoff with their weak OOC schedule, and an undefeated Utah wouldn't stand
I personally think the point is moot as we will never see an undefeated, or for
that matter 1 loss, utah team again. It is not going to happen, ever. Regardless
of their conference affiliation utah is not good enough to accomplish either of
@LonestarIf Utah wins out, they will play in the 4 team playoff. It
doesn't matter if they play Lone Peak, Bingham and Highland HS in the non
conference. Don't kid your self. Again, answer the question; who did Oregon
play in non-conference games this year. @RockwellYes, per the
coaches Poll: 2008 #4, 2009 #18 and 2010 #23. Why do you ask? Which is more
important? Both, it's difficult to be ranked, with out beating ranked
teams. What's your point?Bottom LineBYU finished Ranked
HigherUtah played a tougher scheduleUtah beat BYUBYU had a
better recordBoth teams underachieved.BYU is going bowling, Utah is
Spokane Ute"You sure know your Cougars, even when you have to go
back almost 30 years."Fortunately for BYU fans, BYU actually has
some football history from 30 years ago that's worth remembering.Here's a little question to test your knowledge of Utah football:Has Utah ever finished in the Top 25 in both polls in three or more
consecutive seasons?And a question to put rankings in
perspective:Which is more important, BEATING a ranked team, or BEING
a ranked team?
Spokane UteYou're seriously trying to compare Utah (a team
still looking for its first win against a PAC 12 team with a winning record) to
Oregon (a team that is close to dislogding USC as the PAC 12's premier
team)?Rockwell never said all of those teams would have to be
undefeated. All it would take for an undefeated PAC 12 champion Utah to be left
out of the playoffs would be for Ohio State, Oklahoma, and Alabama to go
undefeated and a one-loss LSU, Florida, or Georgia to suffer that one loss to
Alabama. That's a VERY realistic scenario. Throw in an undefeated or
one-loss Notre Dame, or a undefeated ACC champion like Florida State, Virginia
Tech or Miami, and Utah's chances for being included in a 4-team playoff
would be tenuous at best.If a scenario similar to the above did
occur, how much more comfortable would Utah fans feel about their chances if
Michigan and BYU were on Utah's OOC schedule, rather than Michigan and
Weber State?Scheduling just to ensure a bowl game could come back to
bite the Utes in a big way.
Rockwell,Right, and the earth is flat. Like all of those teams are
going to go undefeated. Again, who did Oregon play in the non-conference this
@ BackpanStrenght of schedule was questioned, not final ranking. You
may want to read the post before calling some one out in the future. Of course
record matters more, but that's not what the topic of conversation was.Uteanymous,You sure know your Cougars, even when you have to
go back almost 30 years.
Two for Flinching"The advantage of being an undefeated PAc-12
champ..."would be dwarfed by the disadvantage of being a
non-elite, johnny-come-lately program with no national legacy.Picture Iowa State or Washington State or Indiana or Vanderbilt competing
against Alabama, LSU, Florida, Georgia, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn
State, Oklahoma, Texas, Miami, or Florida State for that 4th and final playoff
spot. If the records and SOS are similar, which they will be, we all know which
teams would be the real contenders, and which teams would only be pretenders.The power brokers of college football protect their own.
2fer"If Utah ran the table in the PAC-12 there is no way Utah
won't be ranked high enough to automatically qualify for the
playoffs."Sorry to burst your crimson-colored bubble, but
there's NO WAY an undefeated Utah would finish ahead of an undefeated Ohio
State, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida, LSU, Georgia, or Alabama, and very
little chance of an undefeated Utah finishing ahead of a one-loss Alabama, LSU,
Georgia or Florida. And that doesn't even consider the possibility of an
undefeated Miami, Virginia Tech or Florida State from the ACC, or another
undefeated Notre Dame.Bottom line: There are so many
scenarios where an undefeated PAC 12 champion Utah could be shut out of a 4-team
playoff that it's ludicrous to even suggest that Utah would be a lock for
the playoffs simply by running the table.
@DuckhunterYou're right, that one Utah poster outweighs all of
the other Ute fan who (the vast majority) who still support Coach Whitt. That
makes your weak jab at Ute fans in the other article completely valid and true
despite the fact that BYU fans have been calling for Bronco and Doman's
head all season. Congratulations. @ everyone elseIn 2004
Utah climbed to 5 and 6 in the AP and coaches poll and in '08 Utah was
number 7 at the end of the regular season, and that was with no respect and a
weak SOS. If Utah ran the table in the PAC-12 there is no way Utah won't
be ranked high enough to automatically qualify for the playoffs. The advantage
of being an undefeated PAc-12 champ....
@two ferI love how easily proof is summarily dismissed by utah
"fans". You get proven wrong, pretend it doesn't happen then
question the knowledge and sanity of the ute "fan" that disagree's
Spokane UteYou conveniently chose to ignore these little details
during your vast research:Per Sagarin Rankings:#36 BYU #51 Utah Per RPI Rankings:#55 BYU #78 Utah Obviously, SOS doesn't mean much if you don't win.-------It doesn't really matter anyway, since we'll have
an 8-team playoff long before the Utes even sniff an undefeated PAC 12 season,
but you're only fooling yourself if you think that an undefeated Utah team
would be a lock for a 4-team playoff.An undefeated Ohio State,
Oklahoma, and Alabama, with a one-loss LSU or Georgia could easily be selected
over an undefeated Utah, leaving the Utes on the outside looking in, even with
an undefeated PAC 12 title under their belts.Chances are very likely
that we'll continue to see a couple of SEC teams in the playoffs more often
than not, which would only leave two spots available for the B1G, Big12, ACC,
PAC12, Notre Dame, and/or a non-power conference team having a great season.What makes you or any other Utah fan think that an undefeated Utah team
would be a lock for one of those two remaining playoff berths?
Uteanymous,Thanks for the research. My question was in response to
certain Y fans who claimed 2008 was a fluke when utah beat 4 top 25 teams. I
find the fluke comment hypocritical considering byu has not matched this feat.
In fact in 1994 Utah beat 3 teams in the top 18 (Oregon, Colorado state and byu)
and I'm pretty sure byu nas not beaten 3 ranked teams. So any talk of
flukes is completely baseless especially when coming from the fan of a team who
has't matched the accomplishment.
Spokane Ute"Sorry, but it really doesn't matter who Utah,
or any PAC 12 team, play in the non-conference. Run the table, and you will be
in a playoff."You don't have the slightest shred of
evidence that that is true.If Notre Dame, Texas, Alabama, and Ohio
State had all been undefeated this season, do you really expect us to believe
that an undefeated Utah team would have been picked over any of those elite
teams?SOS only matters when two teams have equivalent overall
records, but the only teams people and pollsters really pay attention to are the
very good teams on your schedule and BYU blew away Utah in that regard in 2012,
and could easily repeat that in 2013.Overall record means much more
than SOS - see final Sagarin ratings for 2011 and 2012 if you don't believe
that.-------U 90"Has BYU ever beaten two
teams in the same season that finished the year ranked in the top 25?"Yes!BYU beat two Top 15 teams on the road (Air Force and
UCLA) in 1983, part of that 24-game winning streak that culminated in BYU
winning the 1984 National Championship.
Jealous U, Spokane ute beat me to the punch. You seem to have overlooked the
strength of schedule metric when making your sos analysisSnack, you
still didn't answer the question. Has byu ever beaten two teams in the
same season that finished the year ranked in the top 25?
RockwellSorry, but it really doesn't matter who Utah, or any
PAC 12 team, play in the non-conference. Run the table, and you will be in a
playoff. Have you ever looked at who Oregon, Alabama, LSU and Ohio State play in
non-conference games? Check out Oregon's this year. FYI, a PAC 12 team
would have qualified in each of the last three years, for a four team playoff.
That's what happens when you go 11-1 in the second or third toughest
conference in the country.
@ Jealous YouNo need to get excited. It's easy to reel off
names of teams and act like it means something. It's another to back up
your position with statistics and facts. Strenght of schedule this year.Per Sagarin Rankings:Utah = 26BYU = 56Per RPI Rankings:Utah = 70BYU = 111I'm sure you realize strength of schedule
is based on your entire schedule? As far as next year, I'd be willing to
bet Utah's will be higher at year end. That's the way it goes when you
play in one of the top 3 conferences in the country; as opposed to hand picking
your opponenents. I hope this helps with you strength of schedule understanding.
I don't recall Hill ever mentioning the playoffs when talking about the
reason Utah dropped BYU in 2014 and 2015. I do recall Hill saying that playing
Michigan and BYU in the same season was more than the Utes could handle (that
is, if the Utes wanted to finish bowl eligible).After this last
season, it's easy to see why Hill and Whittingham have adopted the
scheduling philosophy of scheduling an A, B, and C game each year - A.
challenging (BYU); B. decent, but very winnable (like Utah State before this
season); C. gimme (Weber State).Interestingly, the exact three teams
Utah scheduled last season, to play next season.If the PAC 12 was
really serious about qualify teams for the playoffs, they'd have an 8-game
conference schedule, instead of 9. Playing that extra game ensures an unbalanced
home/road conference schedule and guarantees 6 more conference losses each year.
Two For FlinchingOregon(11-1) didn't even play in the PAC 12
championship game this season, yet the #4-ranked Ducks (final BCS ranking) would
have a much better chance of being selected to a four-team playoff this year,
than #6-ranked Stanford(11-2), which won the CCG and beat Oregon.Just as in basketball, head-to-head and CCG winner will only be part of the
equation in deciding between team #4 and team #5.Michigan(11-1)
playing Utah, BYU, UNLV and Oregon State OOC in 2015, while Utah is playing, for
example, Michigan, Weber State, Colorado State and Iowa, could be the difference
between Utah(11-1) making the playoff, or just missing the playoff, regardless
of the head-to-head outcome of Michigan versus Utah.The weeping and
wailing and gnashing of teeth on the hill would never end if Utah won the PAC 12
championship, but just missed the playoffs because Utah played Weber State
instead of BYU.Hypothetical, yes.Possible, also yes. And that's the kind of scenario Utah fans should seriously consider
before blowing off playing a D1-AA team instead of BYU as inconsequential.
2fer"...you don't seem to understand that Utah, Michigan,
and [sic] tOSU don't need to beef up anything to qualify for the playoffs.
They have to win their respective CCG. Conference play will take care of SOS by
itself."No, it's you who doesn't seem to understand
that winning a conference championship game won't even come close to
guaranteeing U a berth in the playoffs.If the playoffs had started
this season, Notre Dame, Alabama, Florida and Oregon would be the odds on
favorites to make the playoffs, with Kansas State (which doesn't have a
CCG), having an outside chance. CCG winners Stanford, Wisconsin, and Florida
State wouldn't have a prayer of being selected.Even with a CCG
win, playing a team like Weber State instead of BYU could KILL any chance Utah
might have of beating out a team like Kansas State for the fourth and final
playoff spot.Sorry to burst your arrogant "bcs" bubble, but
there are no AQs for the playoffs.
Two For FlinchingSorry to burst your delusional bubble, but the
pinnacle for every major college football program is winning a NATIONAL
CHAMPIONSHIP, something BYU has already done and Utah fans can only dream of
doing.The explanation of beefing up a schedule is simple:Michigan and Ohio State are beefing up their OOC schedules by scheduling other
solid programs like BYU and Utah, while Utah intentionally dropped BYU to
schedule teams like Weber State.Simply winning your conference
championship game WILL NOT get you into the playoffs, especially a 4-team
playoff. Look no further than this season's Top 4 BCS finishers:#1 Notre Dame#2 Alabama#3 Florida#4 OregonAs U
can clearly see, NO B1G champion, NO Big 12 champion, and NO ACC champion.If Ohio State(12-0) and #3 in AP were eligible, the Buckeyes would be #2
or #3 in the BCS, and guess what, NO PAC 12 champion.With five power
conferences + Notre Dame, and only 4 playoff spots available, it's
GUARANTEED that at least one, probably two, and as many as three power
conference champions WILL NOT be included in the 4-team playoff.
@Snack PAC"Utah fans have deluded themselves into believing that
playing in a bcs bowl is the pinnacle of major college football
achievement."That is the pinnacle for mid-majors. You know,
teams like BYU.Michigan is beefing up their schedule, by scheduling
teams like Utah. But you also slammed Utah for dropping BYU to Big Sky schools
(aka Michigan). Explain that one....Also you don't seem to
understand that Utah, Michigan, and tOSU don't need to beef up anything to
qualify for the playoffs. They have to win their respective CCG. Conference
play will take care of SOS by itself.
Spokane Ute"We all know who played a tougher schedule this year,
and will again next year."BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams THIS
SEASON; Utah only played THREE.It's obvious which team played
the most tough opponents this season.BYU's 2013 Schedule (one
more pending)at Virginia(4-8)#23 Texas(8-4)Utah(5-7)at
#22 Utah State(10-2) (WAC champion)Georgia Tech(6-7) (ACC championship
game)at Houston(5-7)#19 Boise State(10-2) (tri-MWC champion)at
Wisconsin(8-5) (B1G champion)Middle Tenn St(8-4)at #1 Notre
Dame(12-0) (BCS championship game)at Hawaii(3-9)Four ranked
teams; three conference champions; and a possible defending national
champion.BYU's best opponent - #1 Notre DameBYU's worst
opponent - Hawaii(3-9)It remains to be seen if Utah's schedule
is any "better".Utah's best opponent - #4 OregonUtah's worst opponent - take your pick - Weber State(2-9), Colorado(1-11)
or WSU(3-9)It's obvious which team plays the worst opponents
toosmartforyou1) Is bottom dweller in the PAC 122) Is in a BCS
Conference and isn't even good enough to qualify for a bowl3) Only
conference wins versus the only three worse teams in the PAC 124) The
closest they'll ever get to playing in the Rose Bowl is when they play a
road game at UCLA5) Finished significantly lower than where they were
predicted to finish6) Barely beat another 10-loss Coloraddo, and got lucky
to beat BYU7) Lost to the only WAC team on their scheduleIf
5-7 with no bowl is something you feel like beating your chest about, knock
@Snack PacOf course knocking off an 11-1 Alabama team, as a 10 pt.
underdog, in there back yard (BCS, Sugar Bowl) is the pinnacle of major college
football. Everyone outside of Provo knows that. Even an unbiased BYU fan knows
that. It's not my fault that no conference wants your Cougs, or that you
haven't came close to playing in a BCS bowl. Those are just the facts. As
far as schedule goes, didn't the Utes drop BYU to pick up Michigan? Sorry
guy, but that's better competition. We all know who played a tougher
schedule this year, and will again next year.
Spokane UteUtah fans have deluded themselves into believing that
playing in a bcs bowl is the pinnacle of major college football achievement.While Utah fans are still fixated on the antequated, inherently biased
bcs bowl structure, where an unranked, 8-5 Wisconsin team can sneak into the
"Grand Daddy of Them All", BYU fans are looking forward to the playoffs
where the ultimate prize awaits.While teams like Ohio State and
Michigan are beefing up their schedules to better position themselves for the
playoffs, Utah is dropping BYU to schedule Big Sky teams just to qualify for a
bowl.To Utah fans, the "perks" of being in a power
conference are simply having the opportunity to sneak into a "decent"
bowl without having to have a stellar season, in other words, without having to
@ UtenanymousIt's not my fault that your Cougars haven't
been to a BCS bowl. Maybe a perfect storm will develop in Provo and your Cougs
will end up in a BCS bowl. Don't hold your breath though, and remember,
your Cougars hold the ranking record. Quick, to your blue time machine. Go back
at least 15 years. Call us when you beat us. LOL!
Spokane Ute"When Utah goes undefeated it's a "perfect
storm" or a "fluke". When Boise State, TCU, BYU or Alabama go
undefeated it's because they had a great team."Actually,
that's not far off.When Utah goes undefeated its more like a
one-hit wonder; no build up in years prior to show that they're
legitimate.When Boise State, TCU, BYU, or Alabama go undefeated
it's a continuation of years of football excellence culminating in an
extraordinary season.Call us the first time Utah finishes in the Top
12 in five out of six seasons, including back-to-back Top 7 finishes, a 24-game
winning streak, and a National Championship.If you want to know why
Utah 2004 and 2008 didn't stand a chance of competing for a national
championship, see 2001 to 2003 and 2005 to 2007.One hit wonders,
like Northern Illinois this year and Hawaii years ago, occasionally qualify for
things like BCS bowls or Sweet Sixteens, but quickly fade back into
mediocrity.Utah - 5 AP Top 25 finishes EVERBYU - 17 AP Top 25
finishes in the last 35 yearsThe difference between being a flash in
the pan and a perennial Top 25.
UteanymousNo need to appologize. Your Cougars lead the ranking war,
and the Utes lead the head to head war. Us Utah fans will continue to support
the Utes. Nothing worse than a fair weather fan. You can continue to support
your Cougars. There's nothing wrong with supporting your team.
When Utah goes undefeated it's a "perfect storm" or a
"fluke". When Boise State, TCU, BYU or Alabama go undefeated it's
because they had a great team. My 2009 Sugar Bowl Hoodie doesn't say fluke
or perfect storm on it; but it does say 13-0 on the back. Also,
thanks to all of the Utah Haters who continue to troll the Utah threads. Your
envy and jealousy is awesome! Keep up the bad work!
@ BYU alumYou realize you commented that on a Utah article,
right?@ SammyYou are certainly entitled to that opinion.
I respectfully disagree. I have confidence that Coach Whitt can/will turn Utah
into a winner in the PAC. The good news is we will get to see it play out in
the coming seasons.
Utah, be quiet. We don't want to play you anymore, remember?What's been is been. Why keep dredging it up over and over and over and
over, ad nauseum! Who cares? Go and build your program and leave BYU alone. We
will do the same. There is too much hate in the world and real problems here in
our nation to keep squabbling over all this trivia.
Flinching"Utah clearly does not have the athletes to put ten
wins together in the PAC-12"And that will be the case or excuse
for each year IMHO.But Chris B. and company said the athletes would
be lining up to join the Utes and that the wins would come.Still
waiting or has the best come and gone already?
The article is about Utah football, competing in the PAC 12, and moving forward
to improve. I don't recall any reference to a team south of SLC or
anything even close to discussing AP rankings from 30 years ago. Frankly, a lot
of the post to this article are the same repeated drivel from the same posters.
My suggestion is you make a relevant comment or go to an article
about another team and post your false bravado about playing half a dozen no
name teams so you can have a winning record. If that doesn't float your
boat you can post how great your coach is, or conversely had bad he is and needs
to go. KW has some work to do the get the team back to a winning
record and regular appearances in bowl games. The competition level got better
and our QB play got worse - a bad combination that has lead to a disappointing
record the past two year in PAC 12 play.
@Snack PacWhere a team finishes in the rankings is the only thing
that matters. Oklahoma and Pitt were #3 to start the season, but they both
finished un-ranked. In other words, they were way over-rated and, obviously,
not one of the top teams in the country. You have identified the problem with
pre-season rankings though, so congratulations.
@ DuckhunterQuit digging man. AVUte is one mis-informed person. It
does nothing to prove your point considering the fact that the vast majority of
Utah fans still support coach Whitt.@ Antelope ValleyUtah clearly does not have the athletes to put ten wins together in the
PAC-12; especially last year. Depth is a huge problem. As are the linebackers,
O-line, and WR's and kickers.He's had eight years as a
head coach and has 70-32 record. That puts him in the top 25% of all active
coaches for winning percentage, and he's done that with mid-major players
and a mid-major budget. What more could you possibly want? In short, you are
ridiculous for expecting Utah to step into the PAC and compete immediately.
Whittingham has consistently won at Utah, give him time to make his team a
winner in our new conference.
Hey utah "fans"....I'm guessing that none of you read
antelopevalleyute's post above or else you will all pretend you
WACpaddledUtah is 0-8 versus Washington, including losses in 2011
and 2012BYU is 4-4 versus Washington, including a win 2010Utah
is 24-31-3 versus Colorado, including losses in 9 of their last 12 meetingsBYU is 3-8-1 versus Colorado, with wins in 3 of their last 4 meetings,
including a bowlVersus other PAC 12 teamsAriz 20-16-2ASU
6-18 Ore 8-19OSU 6-9-1Cal 4-5Stan 2-3UCLA 2-9USC 3-7 WSU 7-5In your first two years in the PAC 12,
7-11.The PAC 12 OWNS U!btw, as everyone
knows, what an opponent is ranked when you play them is far less important than
what they're ranked at the end of the season, but just for the record, BYU
has beaten three teams, #3 Pittsburgh, #1 Miami, and #3 Oklahoma, that were
ranked higher when BYU played them than ANY team Utah has ever beaten.
What's to be disappointed about? Utah:1) Is in the
PAC 122) Is in a BCS Conference3) Finished above Colorado and
Washington State and beat California as well4) Is in the conference that
hosts the Rose Bowl5) Finished about where they belong, not lower, which
could have happened6) Beat their new rival, Coloraddo, and their old
rival, BYU7) Barely lost to USU and that was on the roadSo why
all the disapponitment? They did as well as could reasonably be expected.
Sorry if I am playing the devil's advocate here. This is all I got to say
about Coach Whitt and Utah football. Eight years as a head coach, two years of
that eight years as a head coach in a BCS conference (PAC-12). He's had
eight years to learn as a head coach in the MWC/PAC-12 to find ways to win and
adapt to two different conferences and an ever changing state of college
football. I understand a lot has happened within the Utah football program in
those two years, but IMO, Whitt is just not cut out to be a head coach in a BCS
conference. He has the athletes and the talent to have 10+ win seasons, notice
I said seasons, plural. And that was very possible last year. You can see a
whole lot of holes in the boat from a mile away, and the coaching staff has not
identified them yet. If you can't coach players to plug those holes and
keep them plugged, you are not going to win very many games. While most will
disagree with me, that is fine. I see what I see.
pebblesIn 1994, BYU finished #18 in the AP, #10 in the Coaches.
There's no guarantee that just because the Utes finished #14 in the Coaches
poll in 1964, that the Utes would have finished in the Top 20 in the AP poll;
that's pure speculation on your part.It's a proven fact
that BYU had been ranked in the AP Poll TEN times, before Utah cracked the poll
for the first time.The truth is, Utah didn't accomplish a
single thing on a national scale until the Utes cracked the Coaches poll in
1964, and then the Utes disappeared again completely from the national radar
until 1994.Final TallyTop 25 FinishesBYU 18 Coaches, 17
APUtah 7 Coaches, 5 APSorry, but final rankings are the only
true measure of success.
The QB fiasco falls squarely on Whittingham. He should have had a 2nd and 3rd
QB ready in the wings. You can't blame the season on a bad shoulder or an
inexperienced OC. Whittingham has to take full responsibility.
phoenix,BYU has never beaten 4 teams in the same season that
finished the year ranked in the top 25. I'm pretty sure they have never
beaten three. Have they ever beaten two? I don't know the answer.... just
asking.Fluke or not, at least Utah has beaten 4 ranked teams while
BYU hasn't even come close.
sammygSpringville, UTUsing the past two years of PAC12 performance
certainly adds some questions about all the hype of the PAC10 invitation and the
2008 season as to the comment..."Utes are ready to compete at
the next level"Just because you have TWO miracle seasons in the
MWC obviously does not mean squat when you get to play in a 'big boy'
conference does it?"That wasn't a fluke"?Well with two 'stellar' seasons and no bowling this year, certainly
it's one of those storylines that's beginning to gain some
traction.Thanks for suggesting it Chris B.________________Using the past two years of BYUs performance
certainly adds some questions about all the hype of being an independent.San Jose St. owns BYU 6-10 all time.Colorado owns BYU 3-8-1 all
time.BYU can't beat ranked at the time they play them.BYU keeps
losing to Utah.No power conference has extended an official invite.Thanks for the comments sammyg.
SportsFan, from 1962 to 1967 the AP only ranked the top 10, Utah finished 14 in
the coaches poll that year. BYU wasn't ranked the in any poll until 1977.
Some other statistics for wayward kittens: Utah overall record 623-428-3 (.590).
BYU 484-369-26 (.565). Bowl Records Utah 13-4 (.765). BYU 12-17-1 (.417).
Head to head Utah leads 56-34-4 including 8 of the last 11 (including many Y
beat downs). So from the above SportFan if Utah is so bad, BYU is far worse.
As always, way too easy.
Utah fans are still supportive of Whit after a difficult season, while Y fans
are calling for Bronco's lynching after a winning season. Utah
fans are invested in the team and the people who have worked so hard over the
last decade to build the program. Whit has earned the credibility to get the
benefit of the doubt for next season. I think he gets next year to right the
ship. If he doesn't then he'll make a nice replacement for Bronco.BYU fan's seem so desperate to win that they throw everyone under
the bus if they don't live up to what most non BYU fans would see as their
unrealistic expectations (see Bronco, Doman, Heaps, Riley, the unnamed managment
guru).What's funny is Bronco's name is coming up all over
the place to be a head coach as some of the truly elite programs around the
country. I don't think Y fans know when they have a good thing. It'll
be interesting to see how Heaps does at Kansas next year.
Im a big Ute fan but if you think losing Jordon was what happened to this team
you are wrong wrong wrong. JW was not the same player and if you coaches
couldn't see that during spring and fall practice then you don't know
how to see talent.The offense is pathtic play calling and the scheme, was worse.
Sorry but even the D did not look good special teams overall fair. A lot of work
to do. Go Utes
Ernest T. Bass, You've been throwing too many rocks at windows.
Utah fans like to pretend that the Utes have always had a great football program
that is only suffering a temporary slump. The truth is just the opposite.1994 - after more than 100 years of playing football, the Utes finally
crack the AP Top 25 for the 1st time2003 - after a 10-year absence
the Utes crack the AP poll for the 2nd time2004 - Utes dominate a
weak schedule and take advantage of recent rules changes to crack the BCS2005-2007 - back to mediocrity2008 - Utes enjoy a perfect
storm season; barely survive several scares at home and on the road and upset
Alabama in the Sugar Bowl2009-2012 - Utes begin their downward slide
back to mediocrity from ranked to unranked to losing seasonRegardless of what Utah fans hope will happen, it remains to be seen whether
Utah will ever become anything more than a middle to bottom of the PAC team,
with an occasional break through season every decade or so.
Using the past two years of PAC12 performance certainly adds some questions
about all the hype of the PAC10 invitation and the 2008 season as to the
comment..."Utes are ready to compete at the next level"Just because you have TWO miracle seasons in the MWC obviously does not
mean squat when you get to play in a 'big boy' conference does it?"That wasn't a fluke"?Well with two
'stellar' seasons and no bowling this year, certainly it's one of
those storylines that's beginning to gain some traction.Thanks
for suggesting it Chris B.
"A picture says a 1000 words."I wonder if I can get an
autographed copy of it? Every story about the Utes disappointing
season features it prominently.How about just running the picture
with no story? It epitomizes the angst of Ute Nation so well.
@ gonefishnAnything but give credit where credit is due. Very seldom
do teams go undefeated, and we both know they have to play very good, and get a
few breaks along the way. To some, when Alabama, Boise State or Notre Dame do
it: it's because they have a great team. When Utah does it, it's a
fluke. Merely consider the source; we both know that may very well have been the
best team in the country in 2008. That was a very good and special team;
certainly not a fluke. Just ask any Alabama fan.
One question for Coach Whitt.. If Brian Johnson applied for 50 OC jobs at ANY
D1 schools....1. How many would respond to his application? My
guess. 102. How many would grant and interview? My guess. 23.
How many jobs would be extended? My guess? 0I can't think of
a single BCS school that would take an unproven QB coach coach and elevate him
to this level. Like the Lakers retiring Phil Jackson and promoting the ball
boy...Just don't get it. Gotta believe we could have done
@phoenixHow was 2008 a fluke? The Utes Beat BYU, TCU, Oregon St and
Alabama on the road (60,000 bama fans in attendance). All of those teams were
ranked and 2 of them were ranked in the top 10.If you look at most college
football teams that are fortunate enough to have an undefeated season there are
some great wins and several instances when they could have easily lost. Look no
further than Notre Dame this year, they blowout Oklahoma on the road but had
some inexplicably close wins.
I agree worf, and Utah will go undefeated for the 8th time before byu does it a
Chris BWhittingham hasn't even proven that he can beat a PAC 12
team with a winning record, let alone, take the Utes back to the "top",
which to U is 2nd place.2008 was a fluke. The Utes were
VERY fortunate to beat TCU and Oregon State at home, and barely survived beating
Michigan(3-9) 25-23, Air Force(8-5) 30-23, and New Mexico(4-8) 13-10 on the
road.With USC on probation, and ASU, Arizona, UCLA and Colorado all
finishing with losing records, the Utes blew their best chance to win the PAC 12
South by getting dominated at home by lowly 10-loss Colorado.It
could be a couple of decades before the stars align once again for the Utes to
have another shot at a PAC 12 championship game.Whittingham will be
long gone "the next time you're there."
I am a BYU fan. I think that BYU and Utah have a lot to improve for next year,
but I think that they both will fill in the gaps. Next year will be very
interesting. Here is my prediction:BYU: 244Utah: 244 (Game
decided to be tied after game went to 27 overtimes)
RSLJAZZBYUUTAH,Are you saying both Bronco, and Kyle may get the
Beehive boot next year?Chris B----it was a fluke. Our country will
pay off it's national debt before the utes go undefeated. With that
said,--let's hope the utes go undefeated.
I think he gets another year. So does Brian J a OC. I'm a big SEC Fan and
have tried to express to Utah and BYU fans for years that moving to a good BCS
Conference is not easy and your will not like the results. The 2004 Utah Team
was for real they could have beat anybody.....but put them in an SEC league or
even a PAC12 league and the chances of them getting thorugh undefeated are very
very slim. It's about depth and playing 7-8 good teams in a season.Next year will be Kyle's third in the conference and fourth year of
knowing you are PAC12 and having that to help with recruiting. If Utah is not a
9 win team with a good bowl outing then Kyle needs to go.
Coach Whitt needs to reverse the trend next year and win 8+ games. I, like
others, still think he's the right man for the job. The PAC 12 was
extremely tough this year, but going 5-7 just isn't getting it done. @Gabby,Not so sure about Brian Johnson. His play calling
appeared to improve as the season went on. Not so sure about Travis Wilson
either. Did the guy ever throw a 50+ yard bomb all season? I'm hopeful and
optimistic: Here's to next year; GO UTES!
Whittingham is still the right man for the job. The changes at quarterback were
certainly a set back. The offense was inconsistent, with too many 3rd and
longs. Red Zone offense would grind to a halt. The defense was over-hyped in
preseason. They'd swing between dominating and being dominated.
Conference play will always be front-loaded (USC, ASU, UCLA). Utes need a
non-conf schedule that prepares them for that.
I believe Whittingham has one more season, and if it is like this year, I could
see im getting the boot, same with Bronco.
I am hoping for a better season in 2013, but I believe that the U needs a new
offensive coordinator, someone who has a little more experience in that
position. At least that will be a start.
Disappointed, but not worrying the least about our future. Why do I
know Kyle will take us to the top of the nation.Because he already
did take us to the top of the nation(see only undefeated team in the whole
country 2008).That wasn't a fluke.Nor will it be
next time we're there.