re: jasonlivy"Thank you for proving my point that liberals live
in fantasy land."Is it anywhere close to the pocket of unreality
that most Utah conservatives live in?"I don't care about
2008, 2009, and the rest of the world. I care about the USA's current
situation. "Because, knowing how and why have no bearing
whatsoever on solving problems; do they?
at one old man"Utah is one of few places in the world where
paranoia is contagious."Widespread misperception of reality =
It might be good to note that federal government revenues are up 26% over the
last year. Meaning that despite all of the doom and gloom, somebody somewhere,
or more likely, a lot of somebodies all over the country are making a
substantial amounts of money and are paying taxes on that money given there has
not been any change to the tax code in the last 12 months. Economies
go in cycles. It's inevitable that an economy that has been down for so
long will eventually start to rise as people figure out what went wrong and
start fixing it. It doesn't matter who is President. The economy will rise
and fall and rise again.The Republicans slit their own throats by
preaching doom and gloom while ipads flew off the shelf at a record pace. People
may not have consciously made the connection, but their message just did not
reflect reality and people voted that way.
Don't worry, be happy. Our government has a Chinese credit card.
prgamatistferlife:Thank you for proving my point that liberals live
in fantasy land.Bush is a distant memory. The current state of our
economy is due in large part to Obama's directive and leadership. Bush is
long gone. Why do liberals refuse to hold him accountable?I
don't care about 2008, 2009, and the rest of the world. I care about the
USA's current situation. The economy is worse than last year. That's
all I care about. We have more unemployment than was the case when Obama took
office, there are more people on welfare, and more people in poverty. You call
this better? Entitlement spending is at an all-time high. The debt is in part
due to the stimulus enacted shortly after Obama took office, but most of it is
due to entitlement spending. Obama want's to increase it thus putting us
further in the hole.His fixation on punishing the rich is mind
boggling. By punishing the rich, he will inflict lasting damage on our economy.
Most of the 'rich' are small business owners. Any clear
thinking person can see the USA is in serious decline. Open your eyes!
@markI'll take your bet on the unemployment rate. I'm pretty
certain it will be higher a year from now. But what we should really be worried
about is what it will be in four more years. I can assure you it won't be
pretty. There are a lot of companies getting ready to lay people off or reduce
hours under full time in order to absorb increased health insurance costs when
Obamacare kicks in. I work for a small business, they may have to drop health
insurance all together.Obamacare sounds all warm and fuzzy and
everything but someone has to pay the bill. Who is that someone?
"Patriot", until you've been in the shoes of the people you
denigrate, watch how you speak of them. You have no idea why people who
aren't working don't work. You have no idea whether they can even
move, much less walk. You have no idea if they can afford even the tiniest,
cheapest place to live, if they even have a place to live. Until you know what
and whom you speak of, quit generalizing and speak only of your own
circumstances. I do not appreciate your comments, and I'm telling you so
here and now. I am fortunate enough to have a home, but I was not so sure I
would, I have been homeless before, and I never forget or do not have a backup
plan if I ever need to be homeless again. I thought if the election turned out
differently, and my little bit of income became smaller or were gone, I might
need that plan--only I'm a couple of decades older this time. That,
I'm sure, you don't care about. Just think before you say something
hurtful to someone you do care about.
@mark:"Don't you know, Can't spend money 'without
Congressional say-so...'"If you're gonna blame Bush
for two (unnecessary, you say) wars, you need to agree to blame Obama for the $5
trillion increase in the national debt. Largest ever. And he did it in less
than the four years of his first term.
"So, what's up with all these Utahns baggin on Utah? Take off if you
hate so much!"There we go, there's the Utah attitude we all
know and love: don't speak up, don't speak your mind, just keep your
mouth shut, dont question, or leave. Yep. There it is. Actually
AzRods, who's telling you to spend money? I think people should get out of
debt, and have savings, we would be much better off. I will bet the
unemployment rate will be lower a year from now. The true cost of AHC? Well to
start with less bankruptcies due to health care costs (which account to the
majority of bankruptcies), people not refused insurance because of preexisting
conditions, people not denied coverage after reaching some arbitrary payment
cap, people able to get preventative care, people not having to seek medical
care in emergency rooms for conditions that are not emergencies, hopefully a
healthier population, overall less added to the national debt then if we
didn't have it. . . Yep, those are the true "costs" of
heath care reform.
jasonlivy..the economy is weaker now..weaker than when? The end of 2008, the
beginning of 2009, compared to whom the rest of the world. The answer is a
resounding NO. The economy is not weaker it is stronger. Obama is bent on the
redistribution of wealth..did he start, unemployment insurance or did he just
respond to Bushs massive financial collapse, did he start the stimulus programs
or did he just continue what Bush started? Pretend all you want that the world
economy didn't just about completely collapsed and that credit in America
wasn't completely frozen and needed thawing out but it doesn't change
the facts. The point isn't it was Bushs fault because that's not true
the point is Obama saved us from a catostrophic financial collapse and things
are better..much better..and yes Romney would have taken us back to collapse.
Good to see all the Obama supporters on hear telling us that all is well.
Don't worry little children.Telling us to go spend our money, buy
stuff and don't worry about the past 4 years.I'll continue to
pay my taxes, spend carefully so democrats will be sure to blame me in 4 more
years that it's my fault for saving my money and not helping to boost
Obama's blind economic plan.Let's check back in 6-8 months and
see how many Obama-ites are still on here beating on their chests about how
great things are looking.Anyone wanna bet on the unemployment rate a year
from now?How about the true costs of Obamacare?Any takers?
So, what's up with all these Utahns baggin on Utah? Take off if you hate
so much! Certainly won't be any worse for the rest of us who love it here.
And by the way DOUG10, Utah has the HIGHEST college grad per capita in the
Is it really 'Utah consumer' sentiment or is that really code for
'mormon consumer' sentiment? What makes Utah so different then any
other state other then they share the same religion as Romney? This is just a
case of mormons being sore losers and just pouting. What a sad little culture.
Mitt lost by popular vote, get over it and support your Commander in Chief and
This helps explain why Alaska's share Campaign is seeing a drop in
contributions to 2/3 that of the prior year. Alaska leans heavy towards
republican/conservative. Whether it's for real or imagined reasons, we are
tightening our belts.
Kind of funny when Utahns start hacking on Utahns. Essentially hacking on
themselves. Makes me chuckle, and I like a good chuckle. Apparently Schwa is
pouting and Esquire is telling himself to get over it. It's ok Uthans the
rest of the country is just a little behind us. I assure you the consumer
confidence will start going down in other parts of the country soon.
The economy is lousy right now! It hasn't changed nor will it with Obama in
the White House. All you who support Obama are living a fantasy. You can feel
good that you stuck it to the GOP for all of their conservative views, but the
nation is weaker now. It's less free and will continue to follow down this
road.I'm not a conspirator or a doomsayer, but a realist. We
missed a golden opportunity to help the country get back on track economically
by voting in Romney. Instead we chose a White House who is bent on distribution
of wealth and punishing the rich, whether or not it does any good. He's
amassed 4 trillion in debt in his first term! We have a right to be incredibly
discouraged.Obama will not bring America back to prominence. This is
against his mandate. He, and his ilk, believe that America's colonialism is
evil and has resulted in much of the world's suffering. He will not
compromise, but will blame the Republicans. Falling off the fiscal cliff is a
necessary step in his world view. The reality is ugly...
@patriotSo, you think that the "growing democrat base of voters
happens to consist of those who would rather collect their 'Obama
check', do you? Let me give you a reality check with a list of states that
CONSISTENTLY falls above the national average in welfare and food stamp
participation rates: Mississippi, Tennessee, Louisiana, Alabama, Kentucky, West
Virginia, Georgia, South Carolina, and Arkansas. Now want to take a guess on how
many of those states were blue this last election? I'll help you out.....it
would be a big fat ZERO. In fact, almost all red states receive more in federal
money than they pay in federal taxes. You would be wise to flip off that Faux
News channel I'm sure you watch religiously.
No, Joey -- even God couldn't overcome the blatant gerrymandering by
Republicans in so many states. If He had been able to do that, the House would
be firmly in Democratic hands now.
"The 47% that Mitt was talking about weren't just non-tax payers but
also NON WORKERS. It is the NON WORKERS I call bums and rightly so. "So check this out, "patriot" (please) believes, no, he really
does, he believes that there 47% of the people in this country do not work. No,
really, I'm serious, that is really what he believes. HaHa, yeah I know.
What can I say, some people will believe anything.
re:Cincinnatusyou and your wife actually work - right?? Then you
aren't part of the do-nothing bums I was referring to. I have kids who are
married and going to school and guess what - they make so little they don't
pay income taxes either however they work HARD as I'm sure you and your
wife do. They also benefit from health care plans tailored for their
circumstances. The 47% that Mitt was talking about weren't just non-tax
payers but also NON WORKERS. It is the NON WORKERS I call bums and rightly so.
The growing democrat base of voters happens to consist of those who would rather
collect their "Obama check" as one NY City guy put it and then set on
their behind. This crowd don't think they should work because they get more
from their free-bee Obama check than they would working a night shift security
guard job. Great culture we are fostering here huh?? Sounds just like socialist
Europe - the ones burning cars in the streets demanding their "fair
share" of entitlements that don't exist because countries like Greece
Excuse me I meant I "pay" quite a bit in federal taxes. Pray federal
taxes. Good heavens. wrz, you say, "Can't start a war
without Congressional say-so..."But then you say, "And did
you forget Obama's $5 trillion increase in the national debt. . . "Don't you know, Can't spend money "without Congressional
say-so..."-"when it is clear that Obama and the Democrats
have no plan for the economy other than class warfare and increased government
dependency"Well, counter, that might be true if you keep your
eyes, and ears, tightly shut, or listen solely to Glenn Beck, FOX News, or Rush
and Hannity. But for those if us that actually pay attention we know
that nothing could be further from the truth. Oh well.
To my kids - become financialy wise: get out of debt, stay out of debt, save
and save extra by counting pennies as in negotiating for no tax added if item
paid off in allowed time etc, strict budgeting, adequate term life insurance for
a young family, train up kids to become responsible for life goals and choices,
discern between wants and needs, Pay off home before retirement. This advice
worked for us - perhaps it will for you too!
Cincinnatis, I too must be one of those do nothing bums, "patriot" (he
really needs to quit using that moniker, because nothing could be further from
the truth) sees. I sure am dancing in the street. But I pray quite a bit in
federal taxes. I dare say, I pay much more then "patriot". Lowonoil, I also know those people that hate President Obama, and receive
entitlements. And yeah, the people I know that support President Obama are very
successful people. Strange. But, yeah, I'm usually not a sore
winner, but the more I read the comments on these boards, and listen to some
conservatives, the more I'm laughing and dancing in the street. Republicans
keep saying this kinda stuff, they will never win an election again. And that
makes me happy. It blows my mind, the people that keep claiming Mitt
has great character. What he portrayed indicated no character, he showed himself
as a man with absolutely no core believe. And he did this again and again. The
man would do and say anything- anything, to get votes. Anyone that paid
attention knows this.
These forums need a "roll my eyes" button.
Down Under, you forgot the House of Representatives.
@JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt:"Maybe if the Republicans did more than
try to pass hundreds of abortions bills..."What you're
saying is... join the nation's morals decline and you'll be just
fine."The rest of the country is moving on."True. Agreeing to dispatch (sometimes called abortion) the unborn by the
millions... destroying the institution of marriage by approval of myriads of
strange combinations, letting illegals flood into this country unchecked who
suck up our resources and American jobs."Let's figure out
how to pay for those Trillions of the two wars GW Bush started..."Can't start a war without Congressional say-so... And that included Aye
votes from Senate Democrats like Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Carl Levin, Max
Baucus, John Kerry, Charles Schumer, John Edwards, Harry Reid, Joseph Lieberman,
etc.And did you forget Obama's $5 trillion increase in the
national debt, the largest in American history?
Yes; my consumer confidence tanked with an Obama win. I will spend the next few
months paying off everything as fast as I can because I do not believe that
Obama has any economic sense whatsoever.Paying off debt is a good idea
regardless.Attempts to shame, blame or vilify anyone who is not
trilled over an Obama victory, when it is clear that Obama and the Democrats
have no plan for the economy other than class warfare and increased government
dependency, merely reinforces my belief that the far left has no economic sense,
no common sense and they are just plain mean.
patriotCedar Hills, UTThe only ones dancing in the streets are
the do-nothing bums who won't work and don't pay taxes (progressive
democrat's) but get free Obama money every month...for them the gravy train
keeps on roll'in at our expense.============= Correct me if I'm wrong - um er uh, (gasp!) "patriot", but aren't you one of those retired do-nothing citizens collecting
Social Security, not paying taxes, and getting free money every month -- at our
Hey we voted for this as a country. We will have to stew in our situation until
we can get some responsible leadership in the White House and Senate.
We can always count on Patriot and Worf to give us the Glen Beck perspective.
America is still the greatest country in the world with the highest atandard of
living and personal freedoms only matched by a few. Since this country's
founding there have always been critics and there always will be. God Bless
America and all our warts!!
patriot:"The only ones dancing in the streets are the do-nothing bums who
won't work and don't pay taxes (progressive democrat's) but get
free Obama money every month...for them the gravy train keeps on roll'in at
our expense."ALL of the Obama supporting Utah democrats I know
are well educated, well paid, have long uninterupted employment histories and
have been paying 5 figure Federal income taxes for most of their working lives.
EVERYONE I personally know who collects social security or a disability check
shares your passionate hatred of Barack Obama..
The effect of the Romney loss would not be unexpected in Utah, where the people
seem to put more importance on business than people.
It sounds as though JWB wants a do-over on the election. This time around they
could send the Mormon Helping Hands to Florida to help shorten the lines at the
polls. But then on the other hand, maybe JWB would want FL polls closed as early
as possible to go along with their governor's plans.
Gee, thanks Patriot. I'm apparently one of your do-nothing bums dancing in
the street because I don't pay federal income taxes? My wife and I both
work full time jobs. We each pick up some extra money with some side jobs from
time to time. Yet, because my deductions outweigh my AGI, I'm living off
of others? The last time I checked, I pay payroll taxes, sales taxes, state
taxes, gasoline taxes, property taxes, etc. Your comments reflect the
"47%" comments Mitt Romney made- and why I didn't vote for him. We
work hard and pay no federal income tax- that doesn't mean we're
automatically lazy bums living off everyone else.JWB- while poor
loans have been foreclosed on, most bankruptcy's, even recently, are driven
by medical bills. Reports going back a number of years show that
bankruptcy's due to medical bills are hovering right around 60% of all
"Is it more childish and foolish to insist that there is a conspiracy or
that there is not?" ~ China MievilleIs it more foolish to
attempt to fix the things that you honestly think can be fixed, or to convince
yourself that nothing can be fixed and quit trying?
Statistics and facts are not paranoia. When a bankrupcty happens it is a life
changing event for people, no matter what their economic status. We are a
people in Utah and in our country that cares about what happens to people,
whether in Nevada or Washington, etc. We allowed a system that was
to protect people to be changed by a Congress and a President that helped people
worsen their status and ability to live. People got loans that didn't
deserve a loan. They could have lived in apartments and not had the bankruptcy
part kick in. Then when it kicked in, they were unable to file. Banks and loan
companies, title companies, real estate agents and related fields benefitted.The Tea Party people kicked in and the Evangelicals kept Romney from
running his own campaign with their inside comments detracting from the issues
with President Obama. We have such a great country and Mitt Romney
got sacrificed with so much bad publicity from within and without his own party.
Obama's campaign used all those comments against Mitt.Utah
Mormons could listen to the Prophet since 2002 about Bankruptcy but some
don't take the advice. Spend too much?
I don't get it.Even the GOP faithful have come out and said
their economic plan (which they foisted upon Mitt to promote during the
campaign) would not have worked. Mitt was forced to run to and fro trying to
gather and mend the GOP which cou;dn't agree on anytning if they were all
in a single room anyway.He did not have a chance to try for the
undecided voter with the mish mash he was expected to promote.He had
to deal with fellow GOP coming out of the woods with wacko comments and Donald
Trump who only wants attention and attempting to keep the fat wallets who
bankrolled his campaign happy, he was doomed from the start.Now Utah
has unhappy sentiment and that should be a result of being in the lowest third
of the nation for high school graduates, it should be that Utah receives more
federal tax dollars than it pays in, it should be that bankruptcies continue to
rise in this state.Utah, worry about what you can fix and spend less
time fretting about things you can't.
This loss in consumer confidence wasn't just Utah. I have family in Nevada,
Washington, and the mid-West and they are saying the same exact thing - people
are really worried about the economy and for obvious reasons...Barack Obama is
still president. For all the Obama hype during the election what it really boils
down to is working / tax paying folks are much less confident and are worried
looking ahead. The only ones dancing in the streets are the do-nothing bums who
won't work and don't pay taxes (progressive democrat's) but get
free Obama money every month...for them the gravy train keeps on roll'in at
our expense.** there are legitimate folks who can't work due to
disability and they should be helped but that is a VERY small fraction of the
total who live off the government. Welcome to the new socialist America!! Makes you feel good about your country doesn't it. Makes you want
to pay your "fair share" so the occupy Wallstreet rabble and the rest
can continue to get their "entitlements". Where are MY
FT: Perhaps they'll have the opportunity to take a struggling mission and
help it grow and thrive, split it into three, and move on to another in three
Utah is one of few places in the world where paranoia is contagious.
I am not sure it is as much the Mitt Romney loss or the President Obama for sure
doesn't have a plan as he hasn't had one for the past 4 years, either.
The Governor brags about Utah's economy and he is a part of that. For
2011, Utah was the only state that saw an increase in bankruptcy filings,
climbing a modest 1 percent. Utahns may be filing for bankruptcy in fewer
numbers these days, with the state on track to see the first annual decline in
insolvencies since Congress revamped the law in 2005 to make it tougher to file.
Utah’s numbers remain comparatively high nationally with the state
claiming the fourth-highest filing rate per capita during the first nine months
of 2012 — 5.99 petitions for every 1,000 people, the American Bankruptcy
Institute reports.In 2005-2006, Congress made it harder to file
bankruptcies at the same time making it easier to get mortgages that would cause
the market to fall and put people into bankruptcy. They designed it for the
people to fail.Our Governor brags about the economy and the Church
says not to get into more financial trouble still.
Our reaction is a natural part of the grieving process. We'll survive and
Mitt and Ann will make fantastic Mission Presidents.
I still feel the personal loss of such an outstanding man as Mitt Romney to lead
our nation. He is a man of great character and wisdom in not only economic
issues, but many other issues as well. We now have to face obamacare and a host
of other things bent to destroy this country as we know it. God bless the United
States of America.
Chicken littles. The economy was showing signs of improvement and now
conservatives are doing their best to fulfill their own prophecies of doom.
It's sad really that they can be deceived so easily by Glen Beck.
what this means is that Utahns are withdrawing their income from society, the
way they did before the last two recessions. They've managed to weather
most of the financial crashes because of this tendency, but it also probably
indicates that the rest of the country will ride a bubble off a financial
cliff... that no one cares about enough to actually rectify.
Get over it, Utah. Emajor has it right.
I see my neighbors and friends saying they lost confidence while spending up a
storm this past week. They are all two faced. The numbers already show this is
one of the biggest Black Friday and Cyber Mondays ever. Maybe if the
Republicans did more than try to pass hundreds of abortions bills and helped get
the economy going again from the economy they crashed, they could have won the
presidency.The rest of the country is moving on. Let's figure
out how to pay for those Trillions of the two wars GW Bush started, the 2
stimulus packages, 700 billion bank bailout, 8 trillion Medicaid Part D and the
tax cuts that didn't pay for any of that spending. Where were you fiscal
hawks during the GW Bush Era?
Stop pouting, Utah. It's going to be ok.
Keeping in mind, of course, that as in anything, perception can have little
bearing on reality.