re:UtahBlueDevilThis is just getting started blue devil. Wait until
the Obama tax increases hit small business and the Obamacare mandates kick in as
well. I wouldn't be surprised to see 15% unemployment after 4 years. As far
as rich guys taking their money and leaving - you are EXACTLY correct!! Rick
guys and gals didn't get that way by being stupid and they aren't
going to set around and watch their company profits get eaten alive by an 800 lb
porker federal government and their union bosses. These rich guys that you hate
so much could care less - they will make their money elsewhere and they will
employ alot of people elsewhere as well. The losers - US!!!! Remember this -
elections do have consequences. The only meaning 'FORWARD' will have
is over the edge of the fiscal cliff!
@SLC gal... I like it.... well done.@Az"Unions
refused to re negotiate with lower pay and cutting benefits just like the rest
of us has had to endure the past 2+years."Ok, here goes a first
for me.... ROFL. Never have typed that before, but it is just too appropriate
in this case. Lets try using some facts here and look at average us hourly wage
for the last few years adjust for inflation - just to make things fair.October 2012 - $16.71October 2011 - $16.88October 2010 - $17.18October 2009 - $16.98October 2008 - $16.47October 2007 - $16.45October 2006 - $16.40October 2005 - $15.98October 2004 - $16.18You get the idea. So if you took a hair cute in pay, it wasn't
because the nation was doing the same thing. In fact, in non-inlfation adjusted
numbers the average hourly wage has gone from the last year of Bush being at
$18.27 an hour in 2008 to $19.79 an hour this month.So baring some
kind of new math.... wages are up. Net worth is another issue... different
It sounds like the "Ding Dongs" that ran Hostess tried the "Twinkie
defense" with the unions, and got "snowballed"...
For everyone bashing the GM bailout decision, I have a question: What kind of
car do you drive? If it's not a GM or Chrysler brand car, you have no room
to complain because you were part of the problem, not part of the solution. All
GM needed was Americans to BUY American cars and the Feds wouldn't have
needed to step in with everyone's tax dollars. We as consumers have the
choice and while many of us actually purchased new GM vehicles, not enough folks
did. So blame yourselves!!The cash-for-clunkers program
should have been limited to American cars and then we wouldn't have sent
tens of millions of dollars to Japan out of our economy. A close relative used
the program to buy a Chevrolet. What did you buy if you used it?Again, blame yourselves!!
This hurts a lot in the short term. The long term is a defferent story however.
Orher bakeries will now have to produce more and it will take people to do the
Consider that a business operation only exists because of the need, opportunity
and permission of society. Consider also that the creation of a
business operation requires the investment from many sources such as the
community, and the governments all the way up to the national just for the
opportunity. Then there are the workers who will invest time from
their lives at a lower cost than it is worth. Much of the profits will come
from the selling of the employees labor at a greater cost than it’s
purchase price. then there are the consumers who will invest their
money and in fact supply all the funds to pay for labor, materials, buildings,
machines and even the profit itself. Then there are the other
business operations that provide the raw materials and such. Then
there is the businessmen and their investment of some of their surplus money.So when a business closes, most of the investors lose, their welfare,
their time and perhaps their future. The businessmen may lose some of their
money, but their only loss may be some future profits.
Good ol' unions. They did it again. Of course, they refuse to take
responsibility for it just as always.
Too bad Hostess' initials weren't GM.I guess you
don't qualify to be bailed out if the government feels you're
contributing to obesity in America.
AZ Rods -- such foolishness. You're telling us workers on the production
line should accept lower pay while at the same time those at the top are
increasing their pay to astronomical levels?Just wait, buddy.
They'll be coming for you too someday.
oneoldman, yeah, keep on repeating vulture capitalist vulture capitalist. Blame
Romney, blame Bush. Unions are good, fair honest organizations only trying to
help us all have better lives.Unions refused to re negotiate with lower
pay and cutting benefits just like the rest of us has had to endure the past
2+years.So instead, they all lose jobs. And not just one area. It will
affect every state in the country.Well done Obama/unions/entitled
Unions once served a purpose long, long ago. Now they are more a cancer eating
away at a companies very existence. They absolutely serve no purpose now days.
Don't bail them out. bailouts hurt things, they don't help things. I
will miss the fruit pies.
Only ones that win in this are the union bosses who you can be sure are still
drawing their union paychecks from union dues.Would be wonderful if
the employees were to buy the company. They probably know how to run it right.
"Another example of union parasites devouring their host! There will be many
more, unless Obama bails out the unions as he did in the UAW bailout!"Mountainman, lets stop back from the edge of silly rhetoric and look at
these two scenarios. Had Americans heavy manufacturing capability been lost to
the level it would have been with the loss of Chrysler and GM, it frankly would
have posed a national security issue. We still have to keep capability to
mobilize should the need arise. We must maintain a heavy manufacturing base in
this country. If you really thought it was about unions, you have been
listening to an overly simplified view of the world.Now Hostess,
while a wonderful company and some delicious products, provides nothing to our
national security....unless you want to toss ho-hos 0r cupcakes at your enemy.
I do believe the unions was being unrealistic here. These owners
were in this to cash the company out.... rebuilding was never really on the
table. The union played their hand poorly.... and they lost in a high stakes
Our family had a similar experience. We found employment in another state. It
turned out to be a positive move for us. Fortunately, we had food storage and
savings to live off of for eight months. Our children refused to drink the
powdered milk, so I made yogurt and added jam to it. We had less to move with
all the food storage we used up.
It's very sad that people were striking had to lose their jobs!!!!! Having
said that, wouldn't it be hilarious is Hostess sold the Ding Dong brand to
Just so I am clear, the workers (lets leave unions out of this for a minute)
have already taken a 30% cut in compensation, and they are being asked to take
another 8% cut in compensation while at the same time the upper management is
seeing an increase in their salaries from 30-50% and it is the greedy workers,
that are killing this company? Very interesting concept. I really
doubt that the ownership and management at Hostess are doing anything but
cheering, because now they can move their operations offshore and pay next to
nothing to their workers. Why is the American worker who wants to make a living
wage "the problem" and the union that tries to protect that worker the
problem and the CEO's and venture capitalists who take every dime they can
out of a company for themselves and then move it offshore are the heroes.
Doesn't make sense to me.I am all for paying CEO's great
salaries if they produce, but the new trend to pay the CEO's high six and
seven figure salaries and bonuses while asking the line worker to take huge cuts
is simply wrong.
I'm surprised that we haven't deemed Hostess (and Twinkies, in
particular) 'too big to fail.' Why not give Hostess a bailout and
save those union jobs?Whatever the poor management decisions,
whatever you think about 'vulture capitalism', the fact is that if
those employees had come back to work when they were told to, they would have
jobs today. Companies aren't in business to create jobs. They
are in business to make money. This is a simple principle. The Union seemed to
forget it. I have not heard good things about the management of Hostess over
the years, but the union shot itself in the foot here.
The Hostess shutdown is the strategy of business to take over our federal
government in the same way as they have the state and local governments. The
object is to punish the American people for voting the wrong way. A secondary
motive may be objection of President Obama himself, not necessarily the
policies. American freedom allows private companies to come and go
as they please, and nothing says they cannot use their weight to influence
government. However, when they use their corporate power to override the will
of society and people it is a crime against the American society and people.
There is nothing that says the people through their government cannot prohibit a
criminal business operation. It is my hope that the brand of
Hostess will be banned from the American scene and the names of the
management/owner team be released to the public. While prison is not a
possibility the American people should ban the brand and shun it’s owners.
Let's hope someone else will pick the business up... even perhaps in China,
Japan or India.That's the way it seems to go... Union demands
close companies who then move overseas where the labor is cheaper. Thanks,
unions, for running yet another business out and into the hands of our world
Unions only care about their management and how they can rip off the companies
they work for. They all want to come to work and have meetings and sit around
and talk and do no work and then get the big bucks. They will stick up for those
who sleep on the job, come late to work everyday and take longer breaks and
lunch times than is authorized. I have seen it over and over and over and over
again.I agree that good workers do not need a union. They will work hard and if
management tries to rip them off, they leave for a better job. I did, and now I
am making over $90,000. per year and enjoying life as I stand up for my company
and work hard for them. Unions just need to go away and let common sense rule
along with good hard workers. Try it, you may like it.
Sorry folks, but those of you solely blaming the the unions for the demise of
this company are intellectually lazy (just as lazy as blaming the President for
anything and everything that goes wrong. Hint: think Congress.).This company has been in decline for over a decade. They FIRST declared
bankruptcy in 2004, long before the economic meltdown. Since then, the
employees have taken about 30% in pay cuts, even before this last round of
"only taking an 8% cut."The company had created a serious
debt load of nearly $1B. New directions and products the company attempted,
flopped.Try combining this with the fact that sales were declining
as consumers were moving to healthier options.Do the unions have
some blame in this? Of course. Pensions are a nearly dead way to handle
retirement anymore. Forcing the company to fund them like they did 50 years ago
is untenable.But, there were a variety of factors at play with
Hostess- not just Unions, and not President Obama. Quit being lazy and think
before you post. It might save us all some time.
I feel for anyone who loses a job and has to find another one, it's not
going to be easy. This isn't just about Twinkies and Ding Dongs, they also
make bread--think about hamburger and hot dog buns and all the restaurants who
purchased these products. Prices could easily increase
Is it possible that Hostess would have been shut down no matter what the workers
did?Was eventual closure of Hostess a goal of the Vulture
Capitalists from the very beginning? Close it down after they had sucked every
possible dollar from its carcass?
Blame blame blame ... A company unwilling or unable to evolve its products into
HEALTHY snacks. Evolve or die.
Management wanted only temporary concessions . . . in order to get through this
down economy. Built into the offer was a reversal of the concessions going
forward. The company works with many different unions, including Teamsters.
All the unions had accepted the temporary concessions except for the Bakers
union, which decided to STRIKE. Pray tell, what would the Teamsters haul if the
Bakers won't work?You Lefties can blame management all you
want, but the bottom line is that Hostess would have remained open if the Bakers
hadn't gone on strike. I've been hearing a lot lately about companies
in trouble because of the heavy burdens imposed by unions, regulations,
Obamacare, and the Fiscal Cliff. If management positions are so lucrative, then
why don't more people prepare and apply for management positions?
Maybe the former workers can get their Union to replace the paychecks? Company
management getting raises while workers benefits, retirement and pay is being
lowered is unconscionable. Both sides are at fault... but the company is closed
so it is too late now. The Union called their bluff and lost.
Unions did not destroy this company. It was destroyed by poor management and a
flock of vulture capitalists and outfits similar to Bain Capital.The
workers are the losers. The vultures will walk away with Golden Parachutes.
One example being the CEO who just recently was handed a 300% pay raise. Greg
Rayburn was being paid $100,000 PER MONTH for his "services."At least nine other top executives of the company also received massive pay
raises, including one who received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and
another received one that brought his salary from $375,000 to $656,256.But that's Obama's fault, isn't it?(Anyone may
verify this information by Googling "hostess ceo salary")
"At least the workers won't be forced to work to live in poverty. Now
they can go get a real job with welfare departments in the states and triple
their earnings, be able to buy steaks and roast beef for the kitchen table with
food stamps."Ok, most on this site think I am a flaming liberal,
but really 2Cents? Who was forcing these workers to stay in these jobs? No
one forced me to stay unloading trucks at UPS at 4 am when I was a teamster. I
took the job to get me through college, and when I didn't want to come home
covered in box dust from head to toe, I got another job... no one forced anyone
to do anything.I do think American capitalism has gone amuck in many
ways - swapping profits for morality too often. But no one forces anyone to
work for anyone. Lets swing back from the edge a bit here. This
was a result of the same type of mentality that we find in Congress.... except
not compromising will impact far more than just 18,000 low wage jobs.
Another example of union parasites devouring their host! There will be many
more, unless Obama bails out the unions as he did in the UAW bailout!
Unions eventually destroy their company...unless Obama will save them at the tax
payers expense. Good employees don't need a union. No city can
afford to use 600 jobs. The root cause, Obamacare, will take many more jobs
and drive this country into the ground.
This is actually good news. It will make our nation more efficient and modern.
All these people will now seek high-paying computer jobs.
Why doesn't the government step in and stop these business from shutting
down to put workers out a job for spite and hate. Just so they don't have
to share their wealth with its employees? Where is Obama to save these jobs and
make business and rich share wealth with employees?The president has
been harping on this sharing the wealth for 4 years, now he has an opportunist
to step up and keep his promise and where is he? Covering up his other deadly
crimes against america.
Good for Hostess, they are doing the right thing for the American people and
workers and free enterprise. If these business and companies are not willing to
share their wealth with those who created it then they don't deserve to
keep it all for themselves and should close the doors. Its the american thing to
do so they can send this business and jobs offshore to slave labor countries
like the rest of the big box enterprises.I won't miss Hostess
at all, they went out of business a long time ago when they changed to inferior
ingredients in their foods so its no big deal.At least the workers
won't be forced to work to live in poverty. Now they can go get a real job
with welfare departments in the states and triple their earnings, be able to buy
steaks and roast beef for the kitchen table with food stamps.Why
does the US think being on welfare is so bad? It a wonderful life and don't
have to work for it. Professional welfare dependents figured this out 20 years
ago and drive Cadillac, BMW, Bentley, to the local food pantry's to get
"0h, I wish I were an Oscar-Meyer Hot Dog..." Hopefully they won't
go the way of Twinkies.Labor unions need to adjust to the new
economy, just like everyone else except Uncle Sam and his insatiable appetite
for spending during the last 4+ years. If the US Government doesn't make
some progress and avoid the big fiscal cliff looming just ahead, watch for many
more companies to go belly-up, trade unions notwithstanding. After all,
there's only so much in the pot and so many ways to slice the pie, so when
it shrinks if stubborn folks don't adjust they lose it altogether.And here I wanted to enjoy another Ding-Dong. Oh well, maybe a hot dog
instead will have to do.
When we don,t need more people on the dole here we are letting unions determine
which companies live and die. Sad day for us Twinkie lovers.
I was a teamster when I worked my way through college working for UPS. THere ,
the relationship between management and union usually worked well together.
This is an example of a union who couldn't see the forest through the trees
and lost big in a battle with Hostesses venture capital owners. In this case,
management will loose, employees will loose, the only ones who will come out
with anything is perhaps the VC people from the scape sale... but that is even
in doubt.Sad day when another American institution dies at the hands
of stubborn Venture Capitalist and unions.
Now real life imitates art. All of us will be like Woody Harrelson in
Zombieland, looking for Twinkees. Say it isn't so!!!