State of disunion: 800,000 residents across the country petition White House to withdraw from U.S.

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  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 19, 2012 8:37 a.m.

    Serenity, there is not one state that is making a request for secession. These petitions have nothing to do with the states. And no the petitions are not making some vague protest, they are specifically calling for secession. And if the people that sign them do bit realize that, they are silly.

    Also, you really should take the time to learn what socialism is. President Obama is not a champion of it. Capitalism with safety nets and regulations is not socialism. Not even close.

  • Serenity Manti, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 5:42 p.m.

    I\I think I understand why some states want to make a statement by these secession requests. Just because Obama won this election doesn't mean that he obeys the Constitutional laws. It simply means that the environs of the United States is changing to an apathetic populace which no longer cares about the Constitution. This, first and foremost includes the president who is a champion of Socialism.

    Perhaps that's the point these states are trying to make; maybe that's why they are requesting to secede.

  • Pendergast Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 17, 2012 10:45 a.m.

    @ mark

    "Haha, Bobby Jindal called for the GOP to "stop being the stupid party", I guess they aren't going to take his advise. "

    The real question is when will he have to recant & apologize to the head of the GOP (Limbaugh)?

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 16, 2012 8:41 p.m.

    SLC Gal, you really don't think that there is any vicious bashing that comes from the right? Please.

    As far as the "ire" this President is supposedly "riling" up, nothing could be further from the truth. The "riling" is coming from only one place: conservative pundits. Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter, Levin, FOX "News", and others like them, these are the people that have done everything possible to divide people, to foment anger and hate, to instigate hostility. And they did it not based on one thing this President did, they did it only because he is a Democrat. Its been ugly business the conservative chattering class has been involved in. Ugly business.

    And no, there is absolutely nothing to it. Really.

  • SLC gal Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 16, 2012 11:52 a.m.

    Good to see some of you are keeping up the time honored liberal tradition of viciously bashing anyone who doesn't agree with you. "Domestic terrorists", really? "Deportation", pray tell where would they deport everyone - Guantonomo? Oh wait, that's been closed, hasn't it? NO? Stay classy!

    Cooler heads that are not signing petitions are wondering when some people are going to wake up! The ire this President is riling up is unprecedented! And it's not due to his race, but his brain!No one is thinking there may be something to it? Really?

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 16, 2012 11:30 a.m.

    Anti Bush Obama, really? The dollar is worth as much as Monopoly money? Really? Outstanding. Of course you are right. Tell you what, I've got some Monopoly money, I'll trade you straight across. I'll trade you for every single penny you've got. You should be cool with that, right? Seeing as they are worth just about the same. Tell you what, I'll even trade you 2 for 1, what do say?

    Relax, free america, no one is going to get thrown out for signing any petition. The commies in office? You don't know what communist is. How sad.

  • ksampow Farr West, Utah
    Nov. 16, 2012 9:32 a.m.

    I should add the following: I know that the mainstream media exaggerates and distorts the conservative view and is partly to blame for this perception that conservatives are anti-minority, but conservatives are also very much to blame because of some of their extreme rhetoric.

  • ksampow Farr West, Utah
    Nov. 16, 2012 9:09 a.m.

    I voted for Romney and was very disappointed to see President Obama reelected, but this movement to secede from the U.S. is crazy!!! It is typical of extreme factions who won't play by the rules that they claim to support.

    One of the big reasons for Romney's defeat is that the Republicans have alienated minorities with an attitude of looking down on anyone who is not like us. Deport them, make them speak English, refuse to alow them necessary medical care, and so on. I believe in law and order, but our immigration system is BROKEN. And now the Republican party has boxed itself into minority status (ironic!) by its anti-minority attitudes - and even anti-women at times although women are now the majority of voters.

    Even more ironic, right wing extremists who always claim to be in favor of the constitution now want to turn their backs on a constitutionally elected president and leave the country! So much for being pro-constitution!!!

    I believe that Obama has us on the wrong track, but we can't turn this country around without working together, even with people who are not like "us."

  • free america mayodan, NC
    Nov. 16, 2012 9:04 a.m.

    To all those who want to deport the people who signed the petitions, what happened t! Yo their constitutional rights of freedom of expression? They are expressing their dissatisfaction at the way the federal government is running and you want to throw them out. You should run for office. You would fit right in with the rest of the commies! Whatever happened to home of the free?

  • LVIS Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 16, 2012 8:47 a.m.

    The Scientist
    Provo, UT
    "It is just this kind of extreme, over the top, overblown, irrational, unbelievable rhetoric and nonsense that lost the Republic of Tea Party the election the past two times. Honestly, it is like listening to a spoiled two year old child throw a tantrum. What an embarassment."

    For a moment I thought you were talking about OWS (speaking of petulant children being an embarrassment). But, of course, you couldn't have been, since OWS was praised by Obama, Pelosi, et al.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Nov. 16, 2012 7:30 a.m.

    To "rsatinfun" you are wrong. The states who want to seceed have said. We are tired of being over taxed, under protected, lied to, healthcare mandates that increase the cost of insurance, expansion of government further into our lives, government aid to terrorist groups, and many other reasons. The point is, just like the Declaration of Independance, the states that want to seceed are doing so because of excessive government intrusion and loss of freedom.

    Go and read the declaration, and compare that to events over the past 4 years. Now, you wil have to be objective and can't put on liberal blinders.

  • rsatinfun Provo, UT
    Nov. 15, 2012 7:17 p.m.

    Imperfect I am, even bleow the dust of the earth.

    3rd Nephi 11:30
    Behold this is not my doctrine to stir up the eharts of men with anger one agasinst another, but this is my doctrine that such such things should be done away.

    It seems that the richer states of wealth have forgotten the reason for the declaration of independence. When a king ceases to be a king and becomes a tyrrant. which defined it's case to be each others keeper with respect and with power. Are we to be one nation under God. I still say yes we are. As far as I am concerned those wishing to seceed has Just said we are not here to produce one nation under God, and one nation who cares for there brother both in both respect and power.

  • TimBehrend Auckland NZ, 00
    Nov. 15, 2012 6:20 p.m.

    JMT: You would never see grafiti in totalitarian regimes. NEVER!

    As a matter of fact, graffiti was and continues to be a significant cultural phenomenon in most authoritarian states. It's one way that people have to express ideas and create art outside the structures of the totalitarian state and at lest cost (in more ways than one) than samizdat publications (in the case of USSR). A surprising number of people commenting on the DN site display an over reliance on baseless assertions and a priori certainties. There are too many purveyors of personal testimonies that don't comport with facts on the ground in the real world -- facts that are widely known to less parochial, less sectarian minds.

  • rickdoctor Chandler, AZ
    Nov. 15, 2012 1:01 p.m.

    Yup..secession would be great...get rid of a few states. Or if these are only individuals, let them have their wishes, and deport them. Make room for the 12 million who really want to be here -- perhaps they can simply exchange 'papers', make it simple. Perhaps there would be a greater attitude of gratitude. Wish all those who threatened to leave in 2008 would have left, our economy would be better off without those quitters.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Nov. 15, 2012 10:38 a.m.

    Everybody knows that federal money is about as valuable as monopoly money. we are so in debt and we have the private federal reserve bank printing money like it's going out of style. printing more money doesn't increase the value of our dollar, it decreases it. States can do just fine without worthless federal monopoly money. If people are productive and the government allows them to be productive, they will prosper no matter what.

    I got a message for our federal authoritarian oligarchy. Lead, Follow or get the Heck out of our way.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Nov. 15, 2012 10:33 a.m.

    We seceded from England and it was a wonderful thing. The government has become self serving and authoritarian. it's time to change it just like the declaration of independence says we should.

  • JMT Springville, UT
    Nov. 15, 2012 9:29 a.m.

    What will be interesting as this goes forward... [and it is not going away - it is impossible to sweep under the rug. As our currency, monetary and fiscal policy drive us to worse, forced austerity measures than Greece is going through, the riots, protests and disruption in America will happen. The world gets to rely on the Dollar and our Central Bank to bolster their 'fake' Keynesian Economy/currency. We have no one to turn to. As a side note Sen Sanders (I-Vermont) has the first and only audit of the Federal Reserveon his site. Under Bernake/Obama/Geithner they loaned out $16 trillion to banks, roughly a quarter of that to EU banks - Greece in America will happen.]

    You would never see grafiti in totalitarian regimes. NEVER! The reason, the STATE never wants people to see others think just like them. They want everyone to feel like they are the only ones who demand freedom. All grafiti, all public expressions of freedom must be removed. Obama attempted to control the internet to include all passwords. Crazy? Consistent.

    As we move past Greece...freedom will win. I predict megacities like New York becoming City-states like Singapore.

  • UtahBruin Saratoga Springs, UT
    Nov. 15, 2012 9:26 a.m.

    Somebody said on here that the "Tea Party" is destroying the Republican party. Although I am a Republican and wouldn't give you spit for Obama. I am stuck with the clown for another four years. And, even though I do agree that the "Tea Party" has caused some divide. I just don't see them being the pone destroying the Republican party. After this election I said to a family member, I really do not see a Republican being elected president again. Unless it is someone who is a liberal republican, moderate if you will. Republicans are obviously the conservative party, and to me what is destroying the Republican party is the way our society is becoming more and more liberal. The beliefs our country was founded on are just about gone. It is very disapointing that society today feels they know more than those who established it. Just as Flat Tops, Straight Leg Pants, they now call skinny jeans, etc. all works in cycles. Our country is doing the same thing, things will get worse before they get better people. And you liberal Obama fans are driving us there. Your pride is in the way.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 15, 2012 6:26 a.m.

    '600,000 residents across the country petition White House to withdraw from U.S.’


    These are the same people who were calling themselves patriots before the election.

  • RunAmuckMom Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 10:24 p.m.

    I am totally astonished and flabbergasted. All my life adults have been drilling into me what a wonderful thing our "DEMOCRACY" is, what a blessing to be able to have the freedom to vote for whom you choose and RESPECT THE OUTCOME. Up until the last two elections, I did not vote because I really did not believe my vote mattered. I still wonder if my voice is lost in the shuffle with millions of others but, at least I exercise my freedom to vote and hope for the best. I guess, I expected the more seasoned adults with the power of voice and representation to behave with dignity. I would like someone to name 1 president who did not make a single mistake in his presidency. I would almost consider the behaviors of these "people of 36 states" treasonous. You don't turn your back on your country simply because you did not get your way. That's the behavior of a two year old in the middle of the crisis of the terrible twos. I am really disappointed in what I have read and heard. I still believe in "America". This only fuels other countries showing us as weak.

  • TimBehrend Auckland NZ, 00
    Nov. 14, 2012 10:23 p.m.

    Worf, if you have information about any states considering withdrawal from the union (as opposed to small numbers of residents within a state signing symbolic petitions about withdrawal), could you please provide links to where the plebiscites are being scheduled?

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:45 p.m.

    Sedition with the threat of insurrection, wow people way to go. I have more than once raised my right hand to protect and defend this country against threats both foreign and domestic. Before my eyes I am seeing people choosing to be domestic enemies of the state. Be careful for what you wish for. Your actions just may lead to everyones free speech rights being curtailed (see Aliens and Sedition Act). Things can go too far. For me, I throw my lot in with my country, right or wrong. Besides only cowards (secessionists) leave/quit when things get tough.

  • Darrel Eagle Mountain, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:32 p.m.


    I never advocated a middle of the road approach (although I certainly wouldn't rule the possibility of one working out), I only said that we are much more alike than we are different, and that if we seek to listen and understand more, and be heard less, that we can get so much more done; for the benefit of all.

    Is there corruption in government? Absolutely. Is the government corrupt? I don't think so. If it is, we really have no one but ourselves, the People to blame.

    Do we have problems as a nation? Yes. Are the solvable? Yes. We need to stop this partisan rhetoric, stop the blame game and seek solutions.

  • Pyrate Fan American Fork, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:29 p.m.

    I am appalled at all the negativity fired between extremists on either side of this issue. Whatever happened to agreeing to disagree? Hurling insults at each other is NOT going to bring this country together. What's done is done. All we can do now is to do the best we can with what we have. People on BOTH sides of the issue need to grow up and start acting like responsible adults, instead of like bickering children.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Nov. 14, 2012 6:51 p.m.

    Legalized slavery was once a cause for war.

    Today, legalized theft, and, harsh regulations, aimed at successful Americans, are causing states to consider withdrawing from the Union.

    Legalized abortions are contrasted to legalized slavery.

    We are in need of leadership.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 6:41 p.m.

    Haha, Bobby Jindal called for the GOP to "stop being the stupid party", I guess they aren't going to take his advise. Classic. It's sorta fun watching the Republicans sliding into irrelevance. But also kinda sad, for indeed, they used to be that grand old party. Oh well. It's rather interesting to watch the Tea Party destroy a political party.

  • uncommonsense CENTERVILLE, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 6:22 p.m.

    It should be noted that the first attempt by Americans to secede was quite successful although bloody. I am referring to our secession from an oppressive government, ie. Great Britain. When it was tried again by Southern States things still turned bloody and those States were forced to return to the Union. This situation is not all that different than the very first time. An oppressive government causes more problems than it corrects. Many feel that our Federal Government has become more oppressive. Pres. Obama has increased wiretaps on citizens far more than were done under Bush. That one example along with the cover up and lies about Benghazi lead many to form distrust with the Feds. My only hope is that this time it's not so bloody.

  • killpack Sandy, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 6:02 p.m.

    Darrel, either you're for high taxes and even higher spending on bailouts and handouts to corrupt special interests (hence increasing deficits and debt) or you are against such unsustainable behavior. It's ludicrous to be 'balanced' or 'middle of the road' on this issue. At least I'm not going to be the one to say 'Hey, I believe in a balanced approach. Let's only bail out HALF of the horrible businesses as before. Or let's only give AIG, General Motors, and Solyndra HALF of what we originally planned on giving them. That doesn't make any sense. It's time to throw the baby out with the bath water, because let's be honest, there really isn't much baby. Only a whole lot of filthy, corrupt, bloated, stinking, bath water. No more compromises. No more middle of the road approaches. Either the totally incompetent and immoral federal government stop altogether stealing from honest people just trying to work and pay their bills so they (the feds) can pay off the special interests keeping them in power or expect serious, secessionist protest.

  • Darrel Eagle Mountain, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 5:33 p.m.

    The moment we stop thinking others as "Americans" and it is "Us Vs Them" we really have already lost the battle. When we immediately reject an idea because of the source, any chance of unity and productivity goes with it.

    Most if not all Americans really want the same thing from Government: The protection of Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness. Where we differ is on how, and how to fund it. These are really a matter of degrees, and not diametrically opposed views. Nobody wants Uncle Sam in certain aspects of their lives, and they wish to be left alone to live their life as they see fit.

    If we could simmer down the emotions, and have a conversation from that perspective it would be amazing what we could accomplish. If there is divisiveness, it is a failure to listen and an overwhelming desire to ensure one is heard. Be the change you want in the world.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 4:40 p.m.

    Peace on earth and good will toward men?? Well I do love the song but I suspect that conservatives and liberals want no part of this sort of cease fire even at Christmas. Any good will was squandered over the past year and united we stand but divided we fall. Neither side will blink and there is a good reason - both sides are sooooo far apart ideology wise ... you might as well expect to jump across the Grand Canyon as bring both sides together. The "United" States is no more. Welcome to the divided states. But wait... don't we have the great uniter in the White House?? Yes the man that just by virtue of his words can bring parties together - make terrorist nations like Iran love us etc.... ??? I forgot that was part of the faded hope n change poster of 2008. The US is a ship with no rudder and no captain..but we do have a community organizer !!! Have a holly jolly Christmas...before the new taxes kick in!!

  • onewhotries Richmond, VA
    Nov. 14, 2012 4:21 p.m.

    It's unbelievable that people who call themselves Americans would want to do such a thing! Why it's like children who, after not getting their way at home, storm out of the house to go live, where, with their friends? With the shoe now on the proverbial other foot, we, as citizens, should get over the division of the election and come together for the good of the entire country. Why even Mitt Romney, if he meant what he said in his succession speech, should be willing to assist the elected president in getting this country's economy back to its standards; he and the rest of his party.
    The constitution is, as many other laws, interpreted, usually, to suit the reader.

  • killpack Sandy, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 3:40 p.m.

    I know right? Can you believe all of these sore losers wanting to secede? Just like those hooligan Founding Fathers. Bunch of whiners. Long live King George and long live Barack Obama.

  • psychoghost Alpine, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 3:38 p.m.

    Why do liberals turn to name calling when someone disagrees with their positions? Tea-party people are not unbalanced. Many are very educated people who simply disagree with the tax and spend policies of the federal government. Signing these petitions is a way of showing their displeasure with the current direction of the country. Free speech isn’t dead yet. I know liberals don't like it when a conservative speaks their mind.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 3:21 p.m.

    Well, TexasBlue, you can do it. But it will take Personal Responsibility and Hard Work. Those of who are called "libs" by so many others aren't stingy about it. We'll even offer to help you get there. Public education is available. There are Pell Grants and other avenues to education.

    And all you have to do shout Praise the Lord three times a day, and you, too will be perfect.

  • mightymite DRAPER, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 3:16 p.m.

    Sore losers... All these people advocating this are the same who yell at coaches and refs in youth sports when thing do not go there child's (team) way...Some people can work together to achive or contibute to a goal, others just quite... Character folks - Get some ... and do not just get angry or paranoid.

  • jotzugel ,
    Nov. 14, 2012 3:05 p.m.

    600,000 vs 62M. Good Riddance!

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 2:57 p.m.

    re: TexasBlue

    Getting called out about something important & whining about. Gotta love Conservatives!?

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 2:55 p.m.

    re: atl134 12:10 p.m. Nov. 14

    **@LDS Liberal
    "Who’s listening and believing the millionaire Joseph Goebbels "

    Nazi comparisons are out of line.**

    Disagree. If Professor Beck can play the Nazi card then LDS Lib playing it is just a case of turnabout being fair play.

    @ RedShirt 12:20 p.m. Nov. 14

    "The liberals were the first ones to try to succeed from the Union, your ilk caused the civil war."

    No. The south wanted cheap labor & states rights hardly liberal causes causes then or now.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 14, 2012 2:49 p.m.

    The 10 states with the highest share of "non-payers" of federal income taxes are in Red states. Most are in Southern (and Republican) states. Meanwhile, the 13 states with the smallest share of "non-payers" are in "blue" states. Most are Northeastern (and Democratic) states.

    There are some not-so-poor outliers, like the 7,000 millionaires who paid no federal income taxes in 2011. But for the most part, when you hear "the 47 percent" you should think "old retired folks and poor working families."

    "The 47 percent aren't lucky ducks cheating the system. They're mostly poor WORKING families getting pilloried by the political party that wrote the rules they're following. If the 47 percent are the monster here, then Republicans helped play the role of Dr. Frankenstein. "Non-payers" have grown in the last 30 years because of marginal tax rate cuts and credits like the EITC passed under Republican presidents and continued by both parties in Congress."
    (National Journal )

  • bricha lehi, ut
    Nov. 14, 2012 2:49 p.m.

    I really don't understand how in the world so many people look down on these people. Agree with these people or not it really doesn't matter. But what they are doing is peacefully disagreeing with the current administration. The key word here being peacefully! They aren't happy with the political landscape and they are making their voice heard, that is all. I think we should applaud them for speaking up (even if we don't agree) because this is the way our great country has given us to do so.

  • CougarBlue Heber City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 2:47 p.m.

    Sad to see this state of the Nation. Those who say they should be stripped of their citizenship are being absurd. We have the right under our Constitution to ask for redress and this is one way of taking out their frustration and seeking. Those who say strip them of Citizenship are probably the ones who voted for Obama. They want to force their will on anyone who disagrees with them.

    I feel their frustration, but still cling to the idea that God established this constitution and will stand behind it, IF we stand with him. That is the problem, we are distancing ourselves from God every single day. There will come a time when we will have gone too far and we will suffer the consequences. Are the there yet, I don not know, but my prayers are much more focused each night praying for the preservation of this nation.

  • JP71 Ogden, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 2:45 p.m.

    1000's of people are boycotting UPS for being against freedom of religion and freedom of speech and for what they did to the boyscouts.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Nov. 14, 2012 2:44 p.m.

    You can sell your modest home here and buy a mansion in South America. There are hardly any laws and law enforcement for that matter in South America. Just what you think you want.

    Or really just suceede. You're more than welcome to the south. Bu Bye Bubba.

  • TexasBlue Flower Mound, TX
    Nov. 14, 2012 2:22 p.m.

    @one old man...

    yes, I was wondering how long it would be before someone caught my typo.
    I guess I was using a "lefty" spell checker

    oh, my true wish in life is to be as perfect as you...

  • KatFitz27 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 2:16 p.m.

    There are at least as many legal immigrants waiting for citizenship who would be thrilled to take your places.

  • Aggielove Cache county, USA
    Nov. 14, 2012 2:13 p.m.

    600,000 not 50,000
    And growing..........

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 2:00 p.m.

    As a side note -- when I mentioned "educated" readers, it is clearly seen that many of those posting here about "succeeding" from the Union don't quite fall into the educated category.

    Val Bagley had an excellent and spot on cartoon in today's Salt Lake Tribune.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 1:57 p.m.

    It's amazing -- and frightening -- that there are so many people out there carrying the delusions they have.

    But cooler, wiser, better educated Americans are sitting back rolling their eyes knowing that this too, shall pass.

  • Miss Piggie Ogden, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 1:53 p.m.


    "Could've sworn your candidate said that 47% of the people are lazy and don't care about personal responsibility and that he doesn't bother with them."

    No, no. He said 47% wouldn't vote for him. As it turned out he was wrong. It was more like 51%.

    But he was right about why they wouldn't vote for him... It's called something like receiving government dole which they feared Romney would curtail and make them go out and at least look for work.

    The other people that didn't vote for him were friends of illegal immigrants, those who would like to marry someone of their own sex, and those who would like to retain the exercise of dispatching the unborn... even if partially born (Left Wingers call it 'abortion & partial birth abortion').

  • Common-Tator Saint Paul, MN
    Nov. 14, 2012 1:51 p.m.

    From the article's last paragraph: "Critics of the petitions have responded with their own asking the government to deport everyone who signed the petitions or to strip the citizenship of the people who signed the petitions before exiling them."

    If you were to actually do that, who would be left to put money into the coffers to pay the welfare outlays for the majority of those remaining?!

  • TexasBlue Flower Mound, TX
    Nov. 14, 2012 1:19 p.m.

    Wow, so many truly angry people here.

    There have been several who have tried to gently explain why people signed the petition in the first place -- for the majority of signers, yes listen closely, the "majority" of signers.

    It has nothing, nada, zip, zilch, zero to do with actually wanting to succeed from the US.

    It has everything to do with letting our voices be heard that we aren't happy with the direction that the socialist left leaning government leaders are taking us. And yes, I know they are elected leaders - that only makes it feel worse.

    Yes, I voted and yes, my candidate lost. I am more sickened that the majority of voters opted to vote with the socialist left, than the specifics of my candidate loosing. I'd guess that a large number of you won't understand that statement, but I don't understand how you could vote the way you did either - so I guess we're even.

    We all need each other, but the Robin Hood (socialist) thinking of stealing (overtaxing) from the rich to give to the poor will only create another Greece where everyone loses.

  • UtahBruin Saratoga Springs, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 1:00 p.m.

    @wrz - Finally someone who actually understands how it works.

    @atl134 - "Nah, people just whining that they didn't get their way". Hmmm, this sounds so familiar. Sounds just like all the libs over the past 4 years. It is so funny how you lefties hate the way some of the righties responde, yet when the tables are turned you do the exact same thing. And yet still you can't recognize that the lefties still cannot create their own ideas. Amusing. "Perhaps Republican secretaries of state should set up free food tables at polling places" Are you referring to what you libbies did in PA, FL, OH, NC, VA, WI, and many others. Or is that anything like the surprise murals being painted on walls in polling places, or is it like the libbies whining and kicking out Republican representatives. You guys crack me up. And still I don't have to go anywhere, I get to stay right here in my state, it is you who leaves if you don't want to live by our new rules. Jokes on you lefties. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:56 p.m.

    We would have no drug war, Little to no taxes, No NDAA and no patriot act. where do I sign?

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:46 p.m.

    People say if states seceed they will become a thrid worl country. Thats what the British said during the revolution. People will be free to be as productive as possible and it will not turn into total anarchy like the obamanoids fantasize about.

  • Mr. Bean Ogden, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:37 p.m.


    "The government, under his (Obama's) rule, is a bully through his unilateral policies and practices."

    Listen, this is what he learned in the nation of his birth (Kenya) and where he mostly grew up (Indonesia). Why do the American people think he would be anything else?

  • Just an Observer Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:34 p.m.

    Re: grandmagreat,
    "They did not leave the country. . . ." Actually, I think they did. I believe the Salt Lake Valley was part of Mexican territory at the time the pioneers went there. That territory was turned over to the US in 1848.

    I'm on your side in this debate, by the way, but I think it is important to be accurate. And I had actually started to wonder, before hearing about secessionist petitions, if that sort of thing would start up. I know that about half of the country is adamantly against being on the path to becoming the USSA (United Socialist States of America). Perhaps we could be divided into the URA (United Republics of America) for the "red" states and the UDA (United Democracies of America) for the "blue".

  • Phillip M Hotchkiss Malta, Mt
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:31 p.m.

    I am a rep. Andi have not signed. But i support those who did. I would like to start a pitition stating something like thiis.
    those who do not belive the ground work for govermemt oour for fathers started. Can leave this country. Some simple rules they started. Jefferson. The best goverment is the least goverment. A nation for freedom of religion. If you dont respect ones right to worship leave. Killing of honest people is a crime. If you want to abort a baby. Leave. The founding fathers were God fearing people who belived in the bible. If you want to marry one of your own sex. Leave. I love this nation for wich it stands . One nation under God. If you disagree leave. Im staying even if im the last rep.thank you . It was a great ride from 1776 to 1012

  • Alfred Ogden, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:30 p.m.

    @Craig Clark:

    "On this day after Veteran's Day, I offer an encore salute to those who serve to preserve for all the rest of us a country that guarantees the right of every citizen to make a fool of himself."

    I don't think you should be calling our newly elected president a 'fool.' Can we not at least give him a chance? Wait! He had his chance and, as others have posted, violated our Constitution and, yes, made a fool of himself and almost ruined the mation.


    "No, actually you can not stay here."

    Oh yeah... seceders would take control of the land and all assets in the borders of the state including federal properties. Not unlike what the Southern states woulda done had they won the Civil War. The current government would keep the national debt, though.

    "You can not live in states that the federal government owns more of then the state does."

    The federal government would lose title the day after secession. As a matter of fact, China would likely be asked to step in and help the seceding states. Can you imagine what that would look like?

  • Poqui Murray, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:29 p.m.

    Here is an interesting article from a few years ago: "As if Things Weren't Bad Enough, Russian Professor Predicts End of US", Wall Street Journal, 29 Dec 2008.

    He predicted that states would secede from the Union starting in 2010. I guess he was only a couple of years off.

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:23 p.m.

    Someone blamed the Deseret News for putting this on here. Did you know that Yahoo has been carrying this since last Friday when it was a mere 50,000 signatures with Texas and Louisiana leading the way. Yesterday when this was first posted it was at 500,000 and now 600,000. Not much if you take into account the entire US population. Yet many of you fail to see the divide that is in this country. The Northeast up through the upper Midwest, stopped through the entire middle of the United States and South with the exception of Florida. The mountain west except Colorado and New Mexico, then the entire west coast with the exception of Alaska. Taken in all it shows just how divided we are. I wonder what many of you would say if these 600,000 were marching on DC at this time. There wouldn't be enough room to stop them.

    Many of you who accuse conservatives of being judgemental have all become hypocrites of your own choosing. It was once said the United States would destroy itself from within. You are watching history in the making.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:20 p.m.

    To "LDS Liberal" I don't know where you get your information, but it is more biased than Gobles.

    The liberals (not just Democrats) are doing all of those things while listening to Air America, CNN, and MSNBC.

    Liberals have ammended the Constitution to get their way. That is how we ended up with Prohibition, and the Income tax ammendments.

    Repeal ammendmetns, like the ammendment that repealed Prohibition, which was a liberal cause.

    In 2000 and 2004 we head all the liberals wanting to do away with the Electorial college, so again, we see liberalism rearing its head.

    The liberals were the first ones to try to succeed from the Union, your ilk caused the civil war.

    So far I have not seen any compromise out of your liberal friends. Harry Reid won't let any jobs bills passed by the house even come up for vote in the Senate, and Obama won't sign a budget unless the current tax cuts are not applied to those making $250000 or more.

    As for the Constitution, Obama let us know that he doesn't care about it when he signed a law that allows the indefinate detention of US citizens without a trial.

  • utahboni Ogden, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:17 p.m.

    I think the people who want to secede should just self deport. There is a lot of vacant land in the Australian outback. We will take up a collection to send you on your way.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:10 p.m.

    "It's been obvious for the last 4 years anyway that they only care about their own"

    Could've sworn your candidate said that 47% of the people are lazy and don't care about personal responsibility and that he doesn't bother with them.

    @LDS Liberal
    "Who’s listening and believing the millionaire Joseph Goebbels "

    Nazi comparisons are out of line.

    "Today it's a issue of morals."

    Nah, just people whining that they didn't get their way. Maybe conservatives should focus more efforts on turning out to vote then turning out to eat Chik-fil-A. Perhaps Republican secretaries of state should set up free food tables at polling places. That'd get the conservative base out. Then again, it'd also spike the vote among college students.

  • bullet56 Olympia, WA
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:08 p.m.

    If Texas could leave the United States, Oh, Happy days! Rick Perry could finally be King, Jim Baker could be the court jester, Karl Rove the Secretary of State, and America can have all the military bases and infrastructure back. We could move NASA out of Huston and set big taxes and tolls for products coming out of Texas into the U.S. Sadly, they won't leave. This is just a small group of voters upset with the outcome and having a place to vent, are, venting.

  • sashabill Morgan Hill, CA
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:07 p.m.

    Could they all move to Pitcairn Island?

  • Sophie 62 spring city, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:05 p.m.

    A tempest in a teapot. 500,000 sounds like a lot of people until you compare it to 300,000 million. This is just a frivolous attempt to illustrate a tantrum. It's too bad they're getting any attention for it.
    I seriously doubt that even half of the signers are real, but even if there are that many foolish individuals, they don't represent all the people in their states.
    This petition is silly and shortsighted - the people who have signed it, however many there really are, haven't thought it through.
    The're like children playing marbles - they lost, so they pick up their marbles and go home in a sulk.
    Grownups work things out. They make compromises - no one individual gets all of what they want all the time, but everybody gets something sometimes.
    Maybe the country and in fact the world are going to heck in a handbasket, but if so, it's been heading that way for centuries. Sulking won't change anything.
    Growing up just might help, though.

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 11:37 a.m.

    @LDS Liberal:

    "I also hope the Department of Homeland Security keeps a list of each and everyone who signed it, and carefully tracks them..."

    This is what the Democrats are seeking to do... called autocracy. They have pined for it ever since the founding Fathers set up this country to ensure freedom and tranquility.

    @Rock Of The Marne:

    "Decide which piece of barren land is going to be their new homeland..."

    The 'land' will consist of the current state boundaries. Some will be physically located next to each other. Others will join so that only Washington DC will eventually belong to Obama. He can keep the national debt. Most of it is his anyway.

    "Oh by the way, all military equipment and other infrastructure owned by the US is going to be moved out..."

    Go ahead, rip up the interstate and tote it off. Put all the asphalt and cement on the White House lawn.


    "This country has become as divided as it was in the 1860s."

    True. Then it was slavery. Today it's a issue of morals.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 11:36 a.m.

    Who’s listening and believing the millionaire Joseph Goebbels on their AM hate radios ranting about an America of “Us” vs. “Them”
    Who’s trying to amend the Constitution when they don’t get their way?
    Who’s trying to repeal passed amendments because they disagree with them?
    Who’s screaming to change the democratic process because their guy didn’t win?
    Who’s now trying to secede from the Union because they aren’t getting everything their way?
    Who’s unwilling to compromise and move forward?
    Who’s destroying America?
    Who’s trampling the Constitution?

    [Take note ultra-con-Tea-Partiers, I never once singled you out.]

    I must admit, I can see why the Republicans need to change to survive –
    The republicans are quietly trying to shut Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Mark Levin and FoxNews up.

    Meanwhile - Democrats just LOVE having them on the air.

    Ironic that it’s the Republicans who are clamoring limit free speech and silence the media.
    And it’s all because of their OWN.

  • suzyk#1 Mount Pleasant, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 11:22 a.m.

    As I read all of these comments it is very obvious citizens are frustrated, angry, disappointed, disillusioned and they don't know what to do with these feelings and thoughts. Thank goodness there is a place to express those concerns with Deseret News. This should be a very clear signal to the Obama Administration(notice I said should) but the liberals do not care. Their main stay is being in charge and they like that feeling. It's been obvious for the last 4 years anyway that they only care about their own..Our wonderful country has been and continues to be torn apart by those who dictate, who cheat, lie, who thrive on power but I still believe the day is coming(not too far away) when there will be once again, peace, love, charity, kidness and all the meanness, negativity will be wiped from the earth. I look forward to that day when there will be peace once again.

  • Doug10 Roosevelt, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 11:15 a.m.

    When the going gets tough.....

    These people suceeding from the country would probably like their state(Texas, and others) to be handed over to them free and clear. Years have gone by where Texas and many other states took fed tax dollars from California and other states so in order to pay that back along with the cost of federal roads, highways, university and hospital buildings in their state they would take on overhead that makes the current fed deficit look like childs play. They are in line to take the money but when it comes time to pay it back they want to be "beamed up".

    Check the facts of those who are critical of Canada as a place to move to, a country that has a higher standard of living, a greater life expectancy, a higher standard of education, lower birth problems, higher income per capita, lower unemployment than USA.

    Homeowners continue to think they should have an interest deduction, that is an entitlement. The military is one of the worst spenders in the country.

    Cut the military by 5% annually for 4 years, give back the interest deductions homeowners now enjoy and balance the budget.

  • Clarissa Layton, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 11:05 a.m.

    I wish we could just have the people who don't support the constitution leave the country. They could move to Europe and help them run up their deficits instead of our own.

  • Mike in Sandy Sandy, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 10:58 a.m.


    You missed the point entirely. This was only supposed to be funny. I did the best I could in a few minutes.
    Catch a cab.....

  • grandmagreat Lake Havasu City, AZ
    Nov. 14, 2012 10:49 a.m.

    One last word of advise from an older Senior Citizen, If you want to help get down on your Knees and ask for help in accepting what is happening, and finding an answer to how you can change things.

  • Brent T. Aurora CO Aurora, CO
    Nov. 14, 2012 10:46 a.m.

    We are (by the original design) United STATES -- 50 (now) separate, essentially self governing countries UNITED in just a few common interests... defense, commerce, human rights. But what has eroded and occurred is we have become the United Counties or United Cities or just the United Citizens of America in continued march to centralize everything. This isn't new. 1912 17th Amendment changes from State Government appointing US Senators (to represent the state government) to people (United Citizens) electing senators. 1909 16th Amendment created the Federal Income Tax (clearly the Federal government would be less powerful if it had less $$$ and less capacity to get more $$$). Bottom line, and evidenced by many commenting on this article, we've lost the concept of statehood... of why half of our Federal legislature, where two halves have to agree, 100 people (unfairly chosen and representative in terms of of population and geography, exists. We are supposed to be separate STATES, separate governments, basically separate countries united by a common treaty known as the US Constitution. If Succession is required to move back towards that, maybe that isn't such a bad thing.

  • Dr. Fortuitous SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 10:31 a.m.

    After reading a few comments, I went to the Petitions website and found that a Log-on Account needed to be created before actually signing the petition.

    At that point, I was given pause by the fact that over the past two years, President Obama has signed a number of Executive Orders suspending all civil and Constitutional rights and turning over management of an America under Martial Law to FEMA, whereby, Americans can be labeled as "Terrorists" without Due Process and their passports revoked, which results, at least, in making them political and financial prisoners in their own country.

    Very likely those that "cling to guns, religion and who are veterans" are already on such a list.

    It is just WRONG for any government to be so powerful and to be able to exert such control over the Individual in the process of Petitioning their government, to cause them to hesitate in expressing their true feelings, REGARDLESS OF THE CAUSE THEY SEEK.

    I'm sure that the framers of our Constitution never anticipated a government so unquestionable so as to limit the Free Speech of an individual by forcing them to consider the possible Federal punishments for doing so.

  • grandmagreat Lake Havasu City, AZ
    Nov. 14, 2012 10:19 a.m.

    Where were these people on election day? They had a right to vote, and if they were old enough to vote they should have been old enough to vote for a true American, who follows the rules of this country. I am a decendant of th original settlers of this great nation, and I am now old enough to give advise. If you are not happy with the way this country is being led, then remember you have a right to vote and there is another election coming up in a couple of years, are you going to vote for an Obama backer, or are you going to vote for men who want to save this country? My ancestors were also driven out of Illinois and established the great state of Utah, why because they needed the freedom to worship as they pleased, they suffered much, and helped to make the State of Utah a great state. They did not leave the country, they merely established a State where they could live by the Constitution of the United States and have freedome of Religion which they were not enjoying in Illinois, and Missouri. Please remember their sacrifices.

  • Sophie 62 spring city, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 10:18 a.m.

    When people make sweeping generalizations about others, they are almost always going to miss important exceptions. Not all conservatives believe exactly the same as every other conservative, nor moderates, nor liberals as other liberals. When someone says "all you Lefties" think or believe this petition is real, he is simply wrong. He has no idea even who he's talking to or what he's talking about.
    The same is true of people who think all conservatives want or believe the same thing.
    This political divide started long before anyone even knew who Obama was. It isn't his fault. To blame it all on him is not only ignorant, it's unproductive and foolish.
    It was happening before 9/11, it was happening when the Constitution was being written.
    People believe differently about things. They think only they and others who believe as they do are right. They talk among themselves and reinforce these beliefs. But others feel differently.
    The beauty of this country is that no one group gets to have their way all the time.
    It works best when we work for the common good and not just to get our own way all the time.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 14, 2012 10:07 a.m.

    The U.S. last balanced its budget in 2001. Between 2001 and 2011, spending increased by 5.9% GDP (from 18.2% GDP in 2001 to 24.1% GDP in 2011), while revenues declined by 4.1% GDP (from 19.5% GDP in 2001 to 15.4% GDP in 2011), resulting in a 8.7% GDP deficit for 2011. Medicare/Medicaid spending increased by 2.0% GDP and defense spending increased by 1.7% GDP from 2001 to 2011. Individual income tax revenues fell by 2.4% GDP and payroll taxes fell by 1.3% GDP from 2001 to 2011.

    In June 2012, CBO summarized the cause of change between its January 2001 estimate of a $5.6 trillion cumulative surplus between 2002 and 2011 and the actual $6.1 trillion cumulative deficit that occurred, an unfavorable "turnaround" or debt increase of $11.7 trillion. Tax cuts and slower-than-expected growth reduced revenues by $6.1 trillion and spending was $5.6 trillion higher. Of this total, the CBO attributes 72% to legislated tax cuts and spending increases and 27% to economic and technical factors. Of the latter, 56% occurred from 2009 to 2011.

  • Sophie 62 spring city, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:50 a.m.

    Mike in Sandy - you are funny!!
    The patriots who fought for freedon in the Revolutionary War were the liberals of their day. They were the progressives.
    The conservatives were the Tories.
    The liberals wanted a new system of government and a new way of living (progressive philosophy.) The Tories wanted things to stay the same. It was to their advantage to keep things the way they were, or so they thought. That is the conservative philosophy.
    As for the person who listed the reasons the South seceded originally - the South overestimated their resources in a war against the United States and its resources.
    They underestimated the cost in money and human lives to keep their States' Right to own, exploit, kill and otherise dehumanize millions of people.
    600.000+ people died because they started the Civil War.
    And some of the people in those states still think they were right.

  • zoar63 Mesa, AZ
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:45 a.m.

    It would be interesting to read the editorial comments that were published in 1860 when rumors of secession were going around. I bet a lot of people dismissed it then too. If you compare conditions in the country today with conditions that existed back then you will see some alarming parallels and that should make both conservatives and liberals reevaluate what is going on now. Better to learn from the mistakes of others then to end up repeating them

  • frugalfly PULLMAN, WA
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:44 a.m.

    Mike in Sandy needs better information. Look at the map by county and tell me exactly what blue voters "will take with them" besides high rises and parking lots, slums, and some academic institutions. The pine apple fields and many of the beaches would stay red enough to give us a little pleasure. But we are working a lot and producing the money that feeds the majority of the takers so we don't have a lot of time to "play on the beach anyways". You also don't have high divorce rates when the parents of children of welfare and liberal elites don't bother to marry to begin with. Much of the wealth of those blue counties is created by the "red individuals" of drive and success which generates the massive wealth. When you talk of individual exceptionalism you talk of the "red spirit". The blues would get the inner cities of the south which represents the "obesity" that they disdain. If you look at my state it is very few counties with such high density population that represent such a small geographic area. Yet my state is "blue".

  • RBB Sandy, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:41 a.m.

    I am not sure why this was censored at first.

    The petitions are merely symptoms of our real problem. Americans increasingly lack integrity and are political hypocrites. Liberals decry "Bush's Wars" and conveniently forget that Hillary, John Kerry and most of the Democrats voted for them. They claim "George Bush was a war criminal and incompetent in the way he fought the wars", but Obama is just wonderful even though he admittedly used drones to kill U.S. citizens without so much as a court hearing and despite the fact that more U.S. soldiers have died during the Obama administration than during Bush.

    Conservatives on the other hand, are fearful of Obama's policies, but had little problem with the Patriot Act and Bush's expansion of Medicare.

    Lets face it. We are $16 Trillion in debt and heading to financial ruin. Two-thirds of that debt has been created during our last 2 presidents. Obama's current budget is 50% greater than Clinton's last budget after accounting for inflation. Most people agree that we have to cut the budget - but just don't cut my programs.

  • WRK Riverton, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:39 a.m.

    to Mike in Sandy. Thank you for all we get. All of our states are the food states. We will see you when you want to eat.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:36 a.m.

    This President's initial political statement was "Hope" and "Change". It appears that those who hoped for change got it with a Constitutional lawyer that changed the definition of "is" to what Bill Clinton wanted.

    Our Founding Fathers got a change when they fought against the tyranny of the time, "Taxation without representation." Our elected Representatives in Congress are supposed to work with the elected President and Vice-President. However, the President in this case has forced his own party in Congress to come up with a Health Care Plan that comes back to taxation without representation. Our country was founded upon freedom and ensuring domestic tranquility. However, the provide for the common defense doesn't mean protection of our borders it means getting something for nothing for many of the people that live here. It is supposed to be citizens but the border has allowed us to have a large percentage that aren't citizens legally.

    John Stossel showed people in Chicago didn't even know the definition and meaning of freedom. It would be interesting to see the Jay Lenos of the world asking what freedom means to this past election.

    Freedom comes with a price always.

  • PAC Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:28 a.m.

    CRAZY! I thought some of those State's voted for Obama? It is kind of like a 1960's or 1970's rock concern "Out of Control".

  • rick122948 boise, id
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:18 a.m.

    There is an old expression that would be an appropriate answer to these petitioners, "PUSH! PULL! OR GET OUT OF THE WAY!" It is ludicrous at best that economic conservatives lose sight of all the hand ups and yes hand outs they get to allow their businesses to succeed in this country. How many dump sites has the federal government or state government had to clean up after business leave their waste behind. How many are yet to be discovered. Business says get government off their backs, how about making businesses pay for all the PUBLIC services they use to do their business. It is high time Americans start pulling together with the kind of central purpose that has lifted us out of all the other holes we have found ourselves in. Forget the political rhetoric and just work together to find real solutions our grandchildren AND us can live with!

  • UtahBruin Saratoga Springs, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:14 a.m.


    Again, you must educate yourselves before you comment. You do not have to leave the country, it is a seperation from government people. Not from the United States of America. You all keep saying where are you going to move to, get out and the whole bit. You don't even know what you are talking about. If Utah pulls away from the government, I still get to stay right here and support any new local leaders. It is no different trying to become part of the union. It bugs me when people are not educated. This is all talk anyway, people are just trying to make a point and all you lefties think it is for real. This article is has so many post on it and the majority are lefties. It will be interesting to see where you all are in 4 years and what comments will come then. I am proud to be an American. I served my countty dilegently during Desert Storm / Desert Shield. I don't remember this being what I fought for. There is no one nation under God, with Obama as president we are One Nation Divided Under God.

  • killpack Sandy, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:14 a.m.

    I hope secessionists are not deterred by the amazing amount of nasty comments sent their way. Remember the Founding Fathers got the same treatment from blue-blooded 'American' Tories.

  • Santor SHERIDAN, AR
    Nov. 14, 2012 9:09 a.m.

    Anyone wanting to secede because 1 man became president they don't like are not Patriots of the United States of America. They are cowards and traitors. Those idiots are free to leave our country, but they don't get to take any of our country with them.

  • Beverly Eden, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:52 a.m.

    Look at the bright side. The more whacky the Tea Party members act, the more marginalized they become. If Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck sign the petition, we have hope. If the Republican Party can escape this nonsense it can become a viable Party again. As long as the "right wingers" have control, the Republican Party will continue to lose elections. Utah needs to avoid this nonsense like the plague. If we are seen as part of this whacky thinking, we will continue to be viewed as a fringe element in American politics.

  • jwarrior2766 Tulsa, OK
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:44 a.m.

    If you think that America should remain united as one, sign this petition today! Make a statement that we are Americans and to withdraw from the union is not what we want. Go to "We the People" and sign the petition Keep the United States United

  • Mike in Sandy Sandy, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:28 a.m.

    I have a big truck and also a company plane. They are free for you to use to expedite your exodus.

  • Mike in Sandy Sandy, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:26 a.m.

    Part 2
    Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian Coalition's, we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of single moms.

    With the Blue States in hand we will have firm control of 80% of the country's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce, 92% of the nation's fresh fruit, 95% of America's quality wines (you can serve French wines at state dinners) 90% of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most of the US low sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Cal Tech and MIT.

    With the Red States you will have to cope with 88% of all obese Americans and their projected health care costs, 92% of all US mosquitoes, nearly 100% of the tornadoes, 90% of the hurricanes, 99% of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100% of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia.

    We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.

  • Mike in Sandy Sandy, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:26 a.m.

    Part 1

    Dear Red States:

    We're ticked off at your Neanderthal attitudes and politics and we've decided we're leaving.

    We in New York intend to form our own country and we're taking the other Blue States with us.

    In case you aren't aware that includes California, Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and the rest of the Northeast.

    We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation and especially to the people of the new country of The Enlightened States of America (E.S.A).

    To sum up briefly:
    You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states.

    We get stem cell research and the best beaches.

    We get Andrew Cuomo and Elizabeth Warren. You get Bobby Jindal and Todd Akin.

    We get the Statue of Liberty. You get OpryLand.

    We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom.

    We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss.

    We get 85 percent of America's venture capital and entrepreneurs.

    You get Alabama.

    We get two-thirds of the tax revenue. You get to make the red states pay their fair share.

  • Grundle West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:25 a.m.

    These petitions are silly.

    That being said, I believe I understand where these people are coming from.

    If I am a war protester in the seventies, I fled to Canada and they accepted me.

    Today if I am homosexual and marriage is important to me, I have many states or even countries to flee to.

    If I want legalized drugs, I have many states or even countries to flee to.

    If want to live in a liberal enclave, someplace with socialized medical care, etc... there are places to flee to.

    HOWEVER, if I am a modern conservative, where do I flee to? Nowhere. There is no place with our heritage and traditional values. The only answer in some people's mind is secession.

    As misguided as that thought is, I understand the sentiment.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:21 a.m.

    When I stand before Almighty God, I would rather be judged for "fiscal irresponsibility" in helping the poor and needy with our taxpayer dollars than put a few more bucks into 40,000 sq foot homes of people unwilling to pay for their employees healthcare. Ye will know them by their fruits.

    NEWS FLASH, the healthcare bill IS A REPUBLICAN PLAN. Sutherland institute thought it up in the 90's, Mitt ran it in Mass., the reason Republicans have no way to replace it is because it was THEIR PLAN. Ye will know them by their fruits.

    Left the GOP when the party was taken over by self righteous angry people looking to have their way and their way only. Not only did they crash the economic car, they wanted the keys back after doing NOTHING to atone for their mistakes. Ye will know them by their fruits.

    I will no longer be part of a party that stands and is funded by billionaires looking to bend the system even more, hide their money in offshore accounts, and verbally abuse the poor and sick. Ye will know them by their fruits.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:19 a.m.

    The federal government is the only thing keeping the local government from really getting in your face. Look at Utah and all it's crazy ordeneces. It's hardly the bastian of freedom I would want.

    laws are a function of population density. Move to the country and go nature boy all you want.

  • fangflyer LAKE WALES, FL
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:19 a.m.

    The issue of secession is a symptom of the deep frustration that many are feeling when they consider how their elected officials conduct themselves the day after the election. Many develop a "tin ear", and immediately embrace the toxic atmosphere of Washington, D.C. and forget that they were sent there to represent their constituents, and not there own self-interest. It this issue gains traction it will produce a serious national debate that should gain the attention of our elected officials and help them to suddenly remember who the represent and why they were elected..... hopefully....

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:18 a.m.

    I thought Obama was going to bring unity? If states start to withdraw,--who'se going to pay off the debt, and provide entitlements?

  • RBB Sandy, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:17 a.m.

    The situation in our country is why we should return to the Founding Father's idea of 50 states having equal power with the government. Some people want the government to do things for them and to allow the government to handle everything. Others of us want minimal government involvement in our lives - "teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves." Why not allow the people to chose on a more local level. Those in the Northeast, Upper Midwest and California can have socialized health care, extensive government welfare, regulations that govern what they eat and lots of taxes. Those of us who do not need the government to tell us what to do can find states that believe in individual freedom and responsibility. I do not think the government should enforce my views on you. Why do liberals and many conservatives feel the need to force their views of what it right on me.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:17 a.m.

    The terrorists are winning by the Bush years standards. Remember when the Dixie Chicks got Dixie Chicked for much less? Rememeber when people were pouring out thier French wines in the street and lapel pins were the true sign of a patriot?

    I say leave, all of you move to Texas and leave. Good luck, don't let the door hit ya.

  • IDC Boise, ID
    Nov. 14, 2012 8:06 a.m.

    Yes, sucession is crazy but the federal government has gotten too big and is out of control. If you don't agree, regardless of party affiliation, you are crazy.

  • az roadrunner Apache Junction, AZ
    Nov. 14, 2012 7:53 a.m.

    I''m a little surprised that the Deseret News would waste our time with this non-story.

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    Nov. 14, 2012 7:50 a.m.

    Texas does not need a petition nor permission to secede. Texas joined the Union as an already Independent Nation by TREATY, a condition of which was that Texas could also leave the Union peaceably any time it deems appropriate.

    Now, I think we are stronger together than apart - for the moment - but don't think Texas could not stand alone. And it does not have to ask permission.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Nov. 14, 2012 7:38 a.m.

    This petition is only a symbolic gesture. What isn't symbolic and is a serious threat is the 47% turning into 55% or 75%.If Obama raises taxes and when Obamacare is fully implemented, millions more Americans will move into the "taker" group. In a real way, that's a real "succession from the union" of producers. But it keeps getting Democrats elected doesn't it?

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Nov. 14, 2012 7:35 a.m.

    The unfunded Mandates signed for by GW Bush include,
    2 Wars, unpaid for 2 trillion
    Medicaid part D, CBO says it will be 8 Trillion
    2 Stimulus packages, unpaid for
    700 Billion bank bailout

    Where were you fiscal hawks during those 8 years?

    Now you lose an election and you cry about it? Please, spare me. I was a Republican and when I asked how we were paying for all this I was told by other Republicans that I was unpatriotic. Well, shoe is on the other foot now you unpatriotic Republicans.

  • David B. Cedar City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 7:19 a.m.

    These people have every right to feel this way especially considering what has transpired the last six years! The irresponsible spending of Obama and his merry band of looney tunes back to the latter part of Bush's 2nd term when the democrats took over both houses.You people that think Obama is something special you have another thing coming and when it happens you won't be happy about it and you have yourselves to blame. Frankly we aren't going to pay this debt off unless the complete and total waste is stopped. Like a treadmill for a shrimp,or the mating habits of flies or any of those other idiotic causes.Stop the overspending now,cut your over inflated salaries and pay more for your own darn health insurance. That would be a start and the other is get you lifers out of Washington! Our forefathers didn't intend our system of govt to be run by a select few all the time.

  • Linus Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 7:16 a.m.

    I'm amused at all those who are taking this symbolic gesture literally. Give me a break! Those who are petitioning are simply reminding our government that it governs with their permission, and they want some accountability from their public servants. Those of you who are so judgmental of the petitioners really ought to read The Declaration of Independence, which outlines some principles that need to be put into play here and now.

    While this petition drive will not amount to anything at this time, it is good to put our government on notice that we expect better than massive indebtedness and massive regulation and massive immorality. The principles still apply.

    One more thing. Some are calling this petition drive "racist," and "troubling" as it hearkens back to slavery, etc. Bah Humbug! Get over it, people. Protesting bad government is not racist. No one is suggesting a return to slavery. No one cares about your complexion. Bad government is the issue here! Godless tyranny is the issue here! Every God-fearing, patriotic American ought to sign on to this symbolic protest to tell the government we expect more responsible governance than we are getting.

  • Springvillepoet Springville, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 6:56 a.m.

    Petitions like this are common. 2000, 2004, and 2008, in just recent elections. Nothing ever comes of it. On top of that, these people have the attention span of a gnat. Something else is bound to catch their eye in a week or two. The worst that will happen is a few flags get flown upside down and a few more Doomsday/End of the World supply stores will have a better end line in this year's ledger.

  • JimInSLC Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 6:51 a.m.

    Petitioning to dismantle the nation that so many men over the years gave their lives to form and then to keep intact, that's a great way to remember the veterans at this time.

    A few posters have blamed Bush administration policies for the mess. I voted for Obama in 2008. He promised change from those policies but once elected, he continued them. We're still in two unfunded wars, Guantanamo Bay is still in operation, patriot act policies are even more invasive to private life. Lobbyist still overrun Washington, Govt. is now less transparent. Obama did not change anything, and Romney did not put forth any message that he had any intentions to change these policies. Obama did not earn my vote in 2012.

    Rather than petition to secede from the union, People should be petitioning to get the US out of Afghanistan and Iraq, to bring the troops home. petition to allow the voices of govt. whistleblowers be heard. petition to do away with drones and kill lists. petition for a budget.
    We just had a chance to make some changes in government, but we pretty much put the same people back in office that contributed to this mess.

  • majmajor Layton, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 6:49 a.m.

    These individuals are “cherry picking” their loyalty. They are patriotic when it is convenient, otherwise known as COWARDS! When democracy goes against them, they are prepared to jump ship. Sounds like they would be better served in a dictatorship.

    To anyone that signed the petition, I request they leave, and find a better place to leave.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 6:45 a.m.

    Aren't these the same people who have been calling themselves super patriots?

  • raybies Layton, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 6:30 a.m.

    I seem to recall that when Bush was elected, I remember the press doing the rounds on famous celebrities who were moving to Europe because they couldn't stand to live in a country that didn't have their candidate in charge. I suspect this is much the same sort of movement...

  • TimBehrend Auckland NZ, 00
    Nov. 14, 2012 6:14 a.m.

    "Liberals" have long invested energy in petitions to assuage their guilt and convince themselves that they are doing something positive. There's no harm in far right anger over losing an election manifesting itself partially in these petitions that so romanticise the "golden age" of their country. It's no different than that map from 10 years ago showing the red/blue division of the states and organising them into two separate countries: The United States of Canada for the blue and Dumb F..istan or Jesusland for the red. Those maps were good for a laugh, especially because of their mischievous names; these petitions are just as humorous, though by some coincidence they lack the whimsy and cleverness of their secessionist siblings on the other side of the fence.

    Let petitions wave o'er the land of the free. The Constitution requires neither patriotism nor intelligence in the citizens from which it says it draws its authority; these petitioners remain protected under her mystical, noble aegis.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 14, 2012 5:46 a.m.

    "As you may recall, many on the left said there would be rioting if Romney won, and many threatened assassination"

    What are you talking about? I have seen reports of people being arrested for plotting to kill the existing president - but haven't seen what you are reporting. I don't doubt it, but to think there haven't been the very same threats made against Obama lacks credibility.

    "How are they less American than you?"

    Because they are not asking to leave the country - they are asking for policy change. That is a quantum difference.

    One can disagree with the government, and even protest, and still be a "patriot". To threaten to dissolve the union, I don't see how under any definition that is being patriotic.

  • Soul Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 5:41 a.m.

    ACTUALLY, no one wants to secede politically from the Union, but a growing number of citizens are just fed up with the Feds. The claim is that President Obama is "The Great Divider of the Union". The government, under his rule, is a bully through his unilateral policies and practices. Time will tell if the claim is accurate or not. Right now, however, there is a growing "divide" among the citizenry. The divide and frustration are real and significant. It cannot be ignored or simply explained away.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Nov. 14, 2012 4:19 a.m.

    3 Nephi 11:29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.

    3 Nephi 11:30 Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away.

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 4:19 a.m.

    Glad you are a federal government champion. Obviously, you don't know the Carolina history. The Feds control 75% of utah. utah would do fine without the fed's choking control. big government supporters get nervous when patriots want less fed involvement and more state control. you and your boy want complete control. some of us don't

  • Midwest Mom Soldiers Grove, WI
    Nov. 14, 2012 3:19 a.m.

    So ... we have a black president and some southerners want to secede? Really? Texas would be in a fine position, considering that it has no state income tax and receives much more in federal funding than its citizens pay in. Wait until Texas sees that it will have a big tax increase and that it will have no military protection.

    This country must end its petty conflicts and unite behind shared goals, if we are to have any future.

  • indycrimson Franklin, IN
    Nov. 14, 2012 1:39 a.m.

    A lot of good ideas are being swallowed up in hate and partisanship. What succession would allow is a form of government where the Federal Government offers a menu of programs and states buy into them as the state population dictates. I assume most of the succeeding states would pay for national protection via armed services. I assume most of the states would not support a federal school lunch program, or perhaps even a state sponsored school lunch program (as an example).

    If the northeast states, northeastern Ohio, the west coast and Florida want to support ALL of the programs...great! If Indiana only wants to pay for national protection and not national healthcare what is wrong with that?

    I wouldn't want to go to my grocery store and walk in and select pre-filled cart, a, b or c...and leave with a bunch of stuff I didn't want.

    Why do it with government??

  • Mad Hatter Provo, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 1:13 a.m.

    Interesting that people in the Party of Lincoln want to do what Southern Democrats did in 1861. However, this is all noise because a minority of angry people in several states don't like living in a democratic world. Much of this is promoted by movement conservatives getting their people whipped up into a lather because they lost an election. And it is very possible they'd be pulling the same stunt if Romney were elected and chose to serve as the moderate he morphed into toward the end of the election period.

    This is simple noise and will go nowhere. Proverbial tempest in a teapot stuff. Personally, it might be useful to investigate Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and the rest of wingnut media for incitement to obstruct and encouraging sedition.

  • frugalfly PULLMAN, WA
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:29 a.m.

    500,000 people peacefully sign petitions for succession for grievances and are deemed lunatic. 500,000 plus "Occupy Wall Street" lute, vandalize,kill, block traffic, do illegal drugs on public lands, cost millions of dollars, but are heralded as "a real important social movement with something important to say". Hmmmm am I the only one who finds this ironic?

  • ClarkHippo Tooele, UT
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:20 a.m.

    I voted for Romney, but just because my guy lost doesn't mean I want to leave.

    Over the last week I've heard so many people say, "I think I want to move to Canada."

    If conservatives hate living in the USA under the Obama Administration, trust me, Canada isn't much different.

  • frugalfly PULLMAN, WA
    Nov. 14, 2012 12:12 a.m.

    Almost 50% of the people in this country don't pay a dime in taxes yet they tell those who pay for the roads and services of the country that as they leave the country that they have to leave behind what the "Federal Govt" has "provided". I laugh. The top 1% pays 32% of the taxes. If you are in the group that pays very little taxes, you don't have any moral authority to tell them about "what the Federal Govt" provides them. They are funding the Federal Government. If they leave, they leave behind what they have paid for. Be intelligent and thank them for providing for you. Don't threaten them to leave behind what "the govt. has provided". In the blue states, there are tons of red votes and my hunch is that those red votes pay the majority of taxes. What have we come to as a country when wanting limited government, no tax increases, control in federal spending, getting out of debt makes a person a "radical" but "same sex marriage", "legal recreational marijuana", "government control of healthcare" makes you mainstream. We aren't the same country anymore....

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 11:51 p.m.

    So much for patriotism and love of country. These people make me ill. There have been some presidents whose policies I haven't liked, but I'll tell you I never would have ever dreamed of behaving so despicably. This is why I call the tea party crowd crazy. And believe me, a huge majority of Americans think the same way, whether they voted for Obama or Romney.

  • LVIS Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 11:09 p.m.

    I can't believe how caustic the comments are from the left. Sure, they say, you have a right to your opinion. As long as your opinion is the same as mine. Look--there is no way secession is going to occur with any state. I would be willing to bet that the great majority of those signing such petitions already know that. All they are looking for is a forum in which to express their displeasure at what they see is the wrong direction the country is taking. How did the left respond before the election? As you may recall, many on the left said there would be rioting if Romney won, and many threatened assassination. At least those signing a petition are taking a peaceful route. Yes, the party of tolerance, free speech, acceptance, etc are guilty of the very things they accuse others of lacking. And, of course, there's The Scientist, who says those signing such petitions are 'Americans', using the name 'loosely'. How are they less American than you?

  • A1994 Centerville, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 11:08 p.m.

    There are at least 50 million conservatives in the U.S. 500,000 don't necessarily represent the view or opinions of the rest. I'm not happy with the direction of the country, but I certainly don't want to secede from the union. Of course, anyone who disagrees with the Democrats and the American Left will automatically get lumped in with this crowd.

    @LDS Liberal

    Do you really want the government to start keeping lists of Americans you just don't like? People are dramatic. They say and do dumb things sometimes. That doesn't make them enemies of the state.

  • The Scientist Provo, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 10:44 p.m.

    It is just this kind of extreme, over the top, overblown, irrational, unbelievable rhetoric and nonsense that lost the Republic of Tea Party the election the past two times. Honestly, it is like listening to a spoiled two year old child throw a tantrum. What an embarassment.

    Good to see Perry try to talk some sense into the wack jobs.

    But the truth is, there are always some disaffected Americans (using the name loosely) who file these petitions, and it increases every election year. This is nothing new.

    What is new is the numbers are larger this time around.

    OK, so what? If a petition is considered for any given state that meets the numbers requirement, then the State Government decides whether or not to support it. Then it has to go before Congress and be passed by a huge majority. If that doesn't happen, the state has to declare war on the USA. Good luck with that!

    Bottom line is, it is never going to happen. These petitions are just symbolic hyperbole by sore losers who haven't quite grown up yet. Let them grouse and get it out of their systems.

    I'm not impressed.

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    Nov. 13, 2012 10:15 p.m.

    Obama is the great divider. Under his reign, this country is disintegrating.

  • justme001 Salt Lake, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 10:13 p.m.

    No actually you can not stay here. You do not want any federal help correct? Well then you can not use roads that federal money HAS ALWAYS paid for. You can not live in states that the federal government owns more of then the state does.
    So again where are you moving to to start your new nation? You can not say you are going to start anew and stay in the same place, sorry you need to start new in a new undeveloped nation that you can run as you see fit.

  • Mom of Six Northern Utah, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 10:03 p.m.

    @atl134--Last I checked California is billions of dollars in debt and Michigan especially the Detroit area can't even hire enough police officers to get the work done because of their debts...and these are blue states. Your statement that the "red states are the moochers" is pretty lame considering the article it came from. Somehow I don't feel that states that receive money for medicare or social security are the real moochers. The Greatest Generation has paid their dues. I don't believe in getting rid of every government program, but I believe that individual states can do a better job at managing money allotted to them. I believe it is the Baby Boomer generation that has really messed up our country and will continue to do so until they all die out. They have brought us social unrest, financial unrest and moral unrest. I am ready for serious people to take over and do the necessary things to bring our country out of this mess. These serious things may be painful, but they should not include government take-over of anything. Big government is never successful....look at Greece and Italy!

  • UtahBruin Saratoga Springs, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 9:55 p.m.

    I love the way all the mighty left libbies are saying "good ridence","I will help you pack", "Don't let the door hit you on the way out", "If you don't like it, get out". Hilarious, this is what all the righties said to you when you opposed war and then you said it was wrong, so what makes it right now? The other funny part is that none of these libbies even understand it. You don't have to leave the country. You get to stay right here and still call yourselves "Americans". State becomes idle unto itself. And many states can survive, this is not cival war times. Yes some Federal Funding is gone, but alot of it stays. It allows the state to establish its own laws and taxes, etc. And by the way, the military stays here. They don't pull out, they stay. And the state is still protected, gotta understand it before you vent. It is a release from government, not state. You guys crack me up. You didn't see this coming, that is even more funny. Then again, many trample on the constitution, lefties anyway. Why would they understand it.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 13, 2012 9:52 p.m.

    Why is Deseret News giving space to this nuttiness?

    So much for compromise and encouraging a civil discourse. Let's highlight the wackos and whip everybody up into a frenzy!

  • justme001 Salt Lake, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 9:20 p.m.

    So where are all these folks moving to?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 9:05 p.m.

    @Mom of 6
    Actually it's the red states that are moochers. Red states disproportionately send less money to the federal gov't than they get back while states like New York New Jersey (Christie noted this in the hurricane aftermath with regards to Jersey) and California send more to the gov't than they get back because those states are wealthier. Romney won 9 of the 10 states with the highest rates of people being in the 47%. The southern states also have the highest smoking rates, lowest education rates, highest obesity rates, highest STD rates, highest infant mortaility rates, highest poverty rates... if any region is a drain on this nation financially... it's the south.

  • ulvegaard Medical Lake, Washington
    Nov. 13, 2012 8:49 p.m.

    I think responses in which those sending such petitions are encouraged to simply pack up their crayons and leave is a bit immature in nature every bit as much as those who signed the petitions.

    This is much more than bad sportsmanship because their candidate didn't win. I don't remember this reaction when Clinton won his second term, Regan or Bush for that matter. It is a cry from the citizens of this country that things are not right. Granted, the constitution provides a voice for grievances, but in all honesty, would these prescribed methods get us anywhere in the face of Lobbyists and entities that wield power and money in spite of the Constitution?

    What is being said, and quite loudly, we don't like the direction this country is moving in: Mounting debt - be it Republican or Democrat inspired, Government over reach, a stalled economy no matter what the doctored numbers portray. And rather than an honest discussion all I see being said here and elsewhere is -- don't let the door hit you on your way out. Let's face it. In my life time, 50 years, I have never heard of anyone asking to secede.

  • Mom of Six Northern Utah, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 8:35 p.m.

    These are not deranged individuals, nor are they all members of the "Tea Party". I consider myself moderate, and I can totally see where they are coming from. Is it a little out there sure, but at least 46% of America also agree that Obama is not a great leader, nor did they want him back in office to further destroy our country. I for one am sickened by the Federal grab at healthcare. I am also tired and have grown very weary of the Federal Government mandating everything and stripping the rights of individual states. Maybe a lot of them are also tired of helping states that can't get their act together and come up with a balanced budget. Why should the fiscally responsible states come to the aide of the states who are billions of dollars in debt?...Is it a bit crazy to sign this petition sure..., but maybe those individuals wanted their voices to be heard loud and clear!

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 13, 2012 7:51 p.m.

    Killpack - you really think we are that different? Totally amazing.

    Lets fully think this thing through. First of all, states like Utah are next consumers of federal funds - they are subsidized by the very states you want to get rid of. Utah and states like it would have to figure out ways to fund their own projects. Utah's national guard is 6/7th funded by the Federal government - that would change dramatically. Utah or its new country would need to establish its own currency, and have to compete on the global stage with the dollar and Euro for investment. Even China still deals in US dollars for stability.

    And how would the finances for the new country look. Well, break up American into a Red and Blue nations, the blue Nation would still lead he world with a GDP of about 10 Trillion, Red nation would only be about 1/3rd of that. The new country would fall to somewhere between 4th and 6th globally. If you look at Utah should it go along, its economy would be about the size of Vietnams. Taxes would have to go way up because per capita GDP would go way down.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 7:45 p.m.

    I would bet a fair number of those who want to withdraw are upset with GOP hand wringing over Romney's loss. "We need to change our message, we need to be more inclusive, we need to reach out to the Hispanics". The true believers likely were sickened at Romney turning sharply left in his desperate attempt to win.

    These are the folks who started the Tea Party to begin with, then reluctantly joined forces with the GOP, only to find out they're being accused of sabotaging Romney's chances because they spoke out.

    They need a homeland. Give them some of the Aleutian islands and tell them to take their toxic inability to get along with others to a new nation, away from the rest of us. I'll donate to anyone who signs a pledge to leave and never return. Take your rattlesnake "don't tread on me" attitude and just leave.

  • dave4197 Redding, CA
    Nov. 13, 2012 7:40 p.m.

    Like Abe Lincoln said, you can fool some of the people. I say these petition signers are fools. And the DNews is close to being a fool, too, posting such foolhardy stuff in a newspaper. C'mon DNews, post some stuff with more importance. Like some definitive articles of the various ways off the fiscal cliff, like some clear consequences of various ways politicians are talking about. Keep this tea party petition stuff to the odds and ends section we don't have to read, we can just chuckle at the fools' headlines.

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 7:23 p.m.

    re: Cats 4:36 p.m. Nov. 13, 2012

    "This is scary!"

    No. Its not. Because of the numbers VAggie (4:51 p.m. Nov. 13, 2012) illustrated, I'd bet at least 473,192 are ardent followers of Limbaugh & that merry band of hooligans.

    @ JMT 4:42 p.m. Nov. 13, 2012

    Oh, Phenomenal! Give Professor Beck a role model.

  • killpack Sandy, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 7:13 p.m.

    I have a question. Why didn't California and New York secede when Bush won his second term? In fact, why didn't the whole East and West Coasts leave? Let's face it. The middle of this country no longer sees eye to eye with the coasts. At all. We are totally divided. Lets peacefully go our own separate ways since we just aren't anything alike anymore. What's wrong with that? If we stick together, tensions are going to come to a breaking point. I mean, it's that bad. People are angry. Let's just separate from one another. Peaceably. Seriously, what is the harm in that. It might prevent an actual Civil War 2.

  • Mister J Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 7:11 p.m.

    per KJB1 11/13 18:32

    Now, thats comedy.

    per Henry Drummond 11/13 18:39

    Canada has socialized medicine. So, the disenfranchised ultra-cons will have to find another dystopia. The only drawback to their leaving will be the white noise on AM radio.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 7:05 p.m.

    Have you ever heard of such a thing before...since the civil war that is? There is no way succession could ever happen today unfortunately due to the nature of our modern world and economies. This isn't 1865. However the very fact that a half million people bothered to sign petitions speaks volumes about how DIVIDED this country really is. Never before have so many been so enraged with a president and their government. Unfortunately 55% voted for Obama and even though there was voter fraud now surfacing in Pennsylvania and Florida it still wouldn't be enough to over turn the election. The fact is - 55% of the people of this county chose to re-elect the WORST president in US history regarding economics alone not to mention the inept and corrupt foreign policy this man has conducted recently in Libya. Love him or HATE him we are stuck with the man and the PEOPLE of the US chose socialism over capitalism and they did it with their eyes open. Elections do have consequences however and I suspect those frightening consequences will start to surface soon. Too little too late I'm afraid. The US is toast!!!

  • MajMarine Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 7:01 p.m.

    LDS Liberal:
    "I also hope the Department of Homeland Security keeps a list of each and everyone who signed it,
    and carefully tracks them using Bush/Cheney's "Patriot Act",
    and places them on the watch list of potential "Domestic Terrorists" ala, Timothy McViegh."

    Well, the fact of the matter is that DHS already considers me a potential terrorist. All because I am white, a military veteran, own guns, and have food storage.

    There's also a petition circulating that says to take away the citizenship of all those that sign the secession petitions. If that's case, I'll for sure sign. I assume I will no longer have to pay taxes. Cool.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 13, 2012 6:51 p.m.

    South Jordan, UT
    All the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" lefties who are encouraging this are the same ones who will be weeping bitter tears when they realize obama and their big government isn't going to bail them out when disaster hits, whatever it may be. Look at the sandy mess...where's your government now?"

    thanks for reminding me....."don't let the door hit you on the way out.... " I forgot to say that part.

    Listen, anyone foolish enough to threaten to leave the country or break up the union because they didn't get their way is no patriot in my book, I would gladly accept their rejected citizenships. And anyone who doesn't understand that big government is a necessary evil to compete in aglobal economy is completely out of touch with the world we live in. If anyone believes independent states can compete with global powers like China, they haven't been paying very good attention. Do I like big government - no. De we need to be able to compete against countries that are funding investment in their down to compete or get passed by.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Nov. 13, 2012 6:39 p.m.

    Whatever happened to simply threatening to move to Canada?

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Nov. 13, 2012 6:32 p.m.

    Let's do this: We allow Texas to secede, claim that Rick Perry has WMDs, and then invade it for its' oil. We'll be greeted as liberators...

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Nov. 13, 2012 6:26 p.m.

    Number of people who voted for Obama last Tuesday: 62,307,405.

    Number of people who have signed these petitions: 50,000.

    I'd say someone's outnumbered.

    Obama won. Get over it.

  • Instereo Eureka, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 6:20 p.m.

    There are 310 million people in the US. To get to 1%, you have to have 3.1 million. So right now it is about .18% or less then 2 per thousand. I supposed they want to leave the country but they don't want to leave their house or their neighborhood. They just want to be exempt from the law of the land. It just shows the selfishness of a small group of people. If things are really that bad, they should leave and go somewhere else like Canada or Australia. Maybe they could go to Great Britain or New Zealand but anywhere else with the possible exception of India, they'd have to learn another language. I'm sure that would fit into their world view. And then of course all those country actually have more debt per person, more socialized health care, and more taxes. Yea, I think they should go and if they want to push the petition, we should make them go because I don't want them living next door to me as a separate country but still using our roads, our hospitals, our schools, our money, and anything else that is American.

  • William Gronberg Payson, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 6:20 p.m.

    Here is a small portion of one of two petitions involving Utah.

    “...and to enact our own laws and here buy govern ourselves...”

    The author uses the verb, “buy”. Purchase.

    He or she should have used the preposition, “by”.

    Back to High School English.

  • USA Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 6:13 p.m.

    Secessionists - please feel free to self-deport.

  • JayTee Sandy, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 6:09 p.m.

    Looks to me like a bunch of liberals are no longer satisfied with just putting stuff on The SL Tribune comments venue, and have decided to spend some time on the Deseret News comment forum as well. We're in trouble--between election fraud, a constituency bought with our (and our descendents') money, and all the other scandals and corruption--sooner or later we're going to do something positive or we're going to grind to a halt here. We can't continue to tolerate the abject foolishness that is so patently destructive to those who produce and provide.

  • Sophie 62 spring city, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 6:03 p.m.

    Ah yes. It worked so well the first time.

  • zoar63 Mesa, AZ
    Nov. 13, 2012 6:00 p.m.

    "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

    Declaration of Independence

  • Diet-Mormon Cache county, USA
    Nov. 13, 2012 5:52 p.m.

    This will shock you all.
    I see obama starting a war with the united states.
    I see him using another country to start a terrorist attack, so he can change these views out there.
    To take there thoughts off of him, and we start focusing on a terrorist.
    Wait, do I sound like a lefty, in the way they treated bush?

  • itsjustme Vernal, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 5:45 p.m.

    The list of States at the end of the story all voted for Obama. Any surprise that they want things left just as they are?

  • William Gronberg Payson, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 5:35 p.m.

    "Peacefully grant the city of Austin Texas to withdraw from the state of Texas & remain part of the United States."

    The above is a good responce to this "petition" issue.

    There are 110 "petitions" at the "We the People" White House site as of 17:30 MST.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 5:33 p.m.

    "Not so nice that the liberal minded do not see the right to criticize as a right of everyone. "

    Likewise, the left also has the right to criticize the right... well, okay I'm not even going to call this secession thing the right... it's more like the crazies.

    "I see some major revolting in the future."

    I don't. It'd be the first ever victory brought on due to sloth and obesity and the south leads in the latter (arguably both, since they're also tops in the highest percentage of people among the 47%).

  • djk blue springs, MO
    Nov. 13, 2012 5:31 p.m.

    i am living in one of the states this is about. what we are trying to say is 'obama won by buying votes, cheating us out on a real president. his lies, taxes, lack of morals, disrespect is killing our nation'. obama and biden, pelosi and reid also others need to read, memorize, understand the constitution of the United States of America. they need to know what it is really like to be a true American. obama knew about the scandal with petreaus pre election and stated 'i knew but didn't want the information out before the election'. he also knew about the consolate being targeted before those innocent deaths. our country is screaming WE NEED A REAL PRESIDENT not obama

  • Curtis Hight Anchorage, AK
    Nov. 13, 2012 5:22 p.m.

    I'm not impressed! I suspect that most of these citizens were in favor of the military expenditures, the social expenditures, and/or the intransigent politics that have been prominent in the national debt debacle. An honorable course would be to relinquish the benefits while paying down the debts, among other things.

  • peacemaker Provo, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 5:15 p.m.

    So nice that people of the Free nation have the right to express their opinions no matter who is criticized. Not so nice that the liberal minded do not see the right to criticize as a right of everyone.
    let's hope that the President returns from his Asian journey in time to deal with the critical economic crisis we are facing.
    Are we supposed to jump off the cliff because the leader has?

  • Aggielove Cache county, USA
    Nov. 13, 2012 5:14 p.m.

    Lds liberal.
    I invite them to track us.
    I will serve them some milk and cookies, and then share my thoughts on why this country has been demolished by a small group of people, (federal government) and how we are going to take it back.
    All I care about is my family, my god, and our security....
    This is just how it is. If you feel threathened, there's really nothing that can fix that.
    You feel threathened by me, and I feel infringed on by you.
    That's all...

  • Castlepath South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 5:01 p.m.

    All the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" lefties who are encouraging this are the same ones who will be weeping bitter tears when they realize obama and their big government isn't going to bail them out when disaster hits, whatever it may be. Look at the sandy mess...where's your government now?

  • Troy06 OREM, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 4:58 p.m.

    Come on Bill you know better. Obama does what he wants period. How can you argue this?

  • Loganhistorian Hyrum, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 4:55 p.m.

    This is only the beginning.... Things will be getting much, much worse. People have had it with the current administration. I see some major revolting in the future. Look at our past when things have gone ill. What did people do then?

  • VAggie Bristow, United States
    Nov. 13, 2012 4:51 p.m.

    As much as I disagree with Obama... REALLY? This is absolutely ridiculous. It's only 1/17 of 1% (500,000/300,000,000), but, wow.

  • zoar63 Mesa, AZ
    Nov. 13, 2012 4:48 p.m.

    Reasons the South seceded
    1. Economic and social differences between the North and the South.
    2. States versus federal rights
    3. The fight between Slave and Non-Slave State Proponents.
    4. Growth of the Abolition Movement.
    5. The election of Abraham Lincoln.

  • JMT Springville, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 4:42 p.m.

    Benjamin Franklin began agitating for political restructuring some 20 years before Lexington, Concord, Bunker Hill, Boston harbor and 1776. If you have ever read the debate it was filled with noble speech about taxation, freedom, self-determination (absence the nanny state) etc on one side, and claims of loons, malcontents and radicals on the other.

    It has begun and in time political restructuring will take place. The speed of technology, velocity of currency and the state of affairs demands that it will not be 20 years. And it is no longer a crown an ocean away.

    What is surprising to me is not the immediate attacks from the Left but the verification. You are alright that the government creates secret lists and targets American citizens that would exercise their First Amendment rights? Not only are you alright with this, you are begging for it. A totalitarian government that penalizes speech.

    You make my point. I detest the dream world you support and beg for. I don't say that with spite or anger, just honest. You detest the world of limited government I insist to provide for my daughters.

    Benjamin has begun.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 4:36 p.m.

    I know that many Americans are extremely upset about the outragious policies and actions of the Obama Administration and rightly so. But, WOW, I had no idea that it had come to this. Unfortunately, I have feared for some time that we might end up in another civil war, but I didn't really believe it would go that far.

    Please, no matter how upset we are, we are still all Americans and we love our country. We tried civil war once. It didn't turn out good.

    Everyone, please pray for our country and our constitution.

    This is scary!

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 4:35 p.m.

    The only way a person can have the exact government that he wants is to live alone on a remote island that does not show up on any maps. However, if you choose to live along side, among and with other people you will probably have to choose from the available governments.

    What kind of America do you want?

    The Economic Jungle.

    Independence carried to the extreme. No rules, no rights and freedom only for the powerful. No improvements and no future. Sort of like the American Indian culture in the thousand years prior to creation of the USA.

    Colonial World.

    Ownership of the entire world by a tiny few. Giant commercial corporations using military force to rule other nations. Like England prior to the USA.

    Military Dictatorship.

    Singular or small set of rulers with fanatical loyalty to a financial or religious dogma. Like Germany and England at the time of WWII.

    Economic Equality secured by representative government.

    Personal rights, freedom, liberty and justice provided by a strong national government freely elected and controlled by people citizens. Like what America could be.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Nov. 13, 2012 4:33 p.m.

    On this day after Veteran's Day, I offer an encore salute to those who serve to preserve for all the rest of us a country that guarantees the right of every citizen to make a fool of himself.

  • zoar63 Mesa, AZ
    Nov. 13, 2012 4:27 p.m.

    Who is to say history will not repeat itself. What kind of conditions existed in the past to cause the split and what about the present?

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Nov. 13, 2012 4:24 p.m.

    I notice that not one of the brave anti-government posters has actually SIGNED such a petition, but go ahead. You can have that Puerto Rican island that's been used for artillery practice for 60 years or so. If you want something nicer, make us an offer.

  • djc Stansbury Park, Ut
    Nov. 13, 2012 4:23 p.m.

    Since they are vocalizing their desire not to be citizens of this great nation, they should be allowed to leave post haste. As they are the minority in their state, the state shouldn't have to suffer the actions of these malcontents. The ideal solution would be to send them back to Europe. Perhaps get a country to provide land for their new nation of "spoiledbratistan"

  • klangton Akiachak, AK
    Nov. 13, 2012 4:19 p.m.

    Amazing. George Bush gave us two wars, only one of which had any justification, and paid for them on credit cards He trampled all over our rights with illegal wiretaps. He approved of torture. He expanded medicaid drug options with no way to pay for it. I did not hear of anyone wanting to secede. I ask people who do not like Obama why they are angry and I hear the same things, like Obamacare, which came from Romney and the right-wing Heritage Foundation. I hear about cover-ups, and other conspiracy theories. The right wing is too extreme for the majority of the country, loses the election, so a few extremists want to secede. This s news? There are real concerns out there that need real focus from all of us, from our elected officials. Let's deal with that and quit paying attention to the loonies.

  • mightymite DRAPER, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 4:17 p.m.

    Interesting that this movement shares the same interests as the white supremacist and the Luis Farrakhan movements. This is a very sad state of affairs in politics in the US. Sore losers and nut jobs are apparently very vocal these days.

  • DaveRL OGDEN, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 4:09 p.m.

    Let them leave, there is now a petition to deport them, I volunteer to help them pack.

  • Bill Shakespeare Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 4:04 p.m.

    Re: Terry

    Obama has ignored our constitution? You mean, like when he won two straight general elections to become the President of the USA? Is that what you meant about ignoring the constitution? (Sorry to interrupt you while you were watching Glenn Beck)

  • Darrel Eagle Mountain, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 3:59 p.m.

    I think it's more accurate to say..."people from 36 States" rather that "36 States". As far as I can tell, no one State government has officially endorsed any of these petitions.

    The last time this actually happened, we had the bloodiest war in our history. If you want change, be the change you want in the world first, then advocate and persuade others to change.

    Our nation is far, far from perfect, but we have steps in place that allow us to correct our faults. Can these people honestly say they have tried every resource, or are they just mad they lost an election.

    Ironically, these are the same people that are up in arms for Obama saying "America isn't perfect" to other nations.

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 3:56 p.m.

    If 50,000,000+ voted for Obama, it is predictability that 50,000 at the other extreme of the political spectrum surfaced. It would be interesting to see how many mentally unbalanced would vote to withdraw if Obama had not won.

  • Schwa South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 3:49 p.m.

    And here I thought conservatives loved America. Oops!

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 3:33 p.m.

    I wondered how long it would take these to surface after the election.

  • What is the truth? Sandy, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 3:31 p.m.

    I find it very odd (disturbing) to have Junior ROTC members as the picture for this article. Don't care what the nut jobs do (move out of the country if you don't like it!) but really?? The poor ROTC being dragged into this stupidity?

  • Floyd Johnson Broken Arrow, OK
    Nov. 13, 2012 3:31 p.m.

    The national debt is close to $300,000 per federal income tax payer. One option to eliminate that debt is to dissolve the United States as an entity, with the seperate states refusing to recognize any portion of the debt. It won't happen, but it would be interesting to see China's response.

  • Terry Sandy, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 3:28 p.m.

    If this came to a vote, you would get about 50% of the country voting for it and far more in Utah! This is ever increasing after the Obama scandals and cover ups keep getting revealed as he did everything possible to make sure they did not blow up until after the election. Nixon was to the moment of getting impeached and stepped down for far less than what Obama has already done.

    Obama has ignored our constitution, broken the separation of power to circumvent congress and make executive decisions on key policy changes, (against the constitution). He has covered up countless scandals including the military order to stand down and not answer the urgent calls for help by Americans under attack in our Libya embassy who were later brutally murdered and is not being held accountable by the media! Obamacare will cost thousands more for the average family and millions more for the average small/medium business, costing tens of thousands of jobs or more and further pull us into a deep recession while pulling us ever closer to a socialist society like Venezuela, Cuba, Greece etc. as is Obama's proclaimed vision. Socialism always fails, Remember the USSR!

  • aunt lucy Looneyville, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 3:17 p.m.

    I say they better do it now while they still can. Four more years of Obama's tax, spend, redistribute and tax, spend, redistribute and there won't be anything left to withdraw from.

  • mightyhunterhaha Kaysville, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 3:17 p.m.

    Really? Are we going to allow these extremists a voice? If they want out of the US give them a passport and good ridance!

  • Fitz Murray, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 3:04 p.m.

    Wake up people, this country is in political decline. This article says there are 36 states who have petitions being signed. They are not all red states, some are blue states. This country has become as divided as it was in the 1860s. This last election, with all its political rhetoric, just pushed us further down the road of decline.

    Comments calling people names and making harsh statements is a microcosm of what is happening across this once great nation. While it is unlikely that any state will secede, it is indicative of the current state of mind in this country. We need a few great leaders, statesmen if you will, to bring this country back together. Unfortunately, there is none in DC, or any of the states, to be found.

  • WHAT NOW? Saint George, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 3:01 p.m.

    Verified/Certified signatures with photo ID?


    DN readers expect this sort of "news" from your efforts.

    DN readers know you do not like President Obama.

    Thank you for confirming these presuppositions.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 2:53 p.m.

    In fairness, most of the Utah signatures are from out-of-staters making it look more like a petition to boot Utah from the nation than a secession petition.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 13, 2012 2:45 p.m.

    BYU_Aggie... the difference here is that time it was geographically based. This time it is just people who are whack-o in the head that live all across the nation.

    The true colors of the so called Tea Party Patriots...... I say see ya! Good luck finding a country that will take ya. Go ahead, gather up your stuff... and head on out. There are plenty who would love to live in this America and take your place, you will not be missed.You all may personally secede from the country - flights are leaving daily.

  • Tiger5 Cache county, USA
    Nov. 13, 2012 2:33 p.m.

    500,000 today, 10,000,000 in 2 years.
    Believe it.

  • BYU_Aggie LOGAN, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 2:32 p.m.

    Didn't some southern states try this out a while ago? I'm assuming this wouldn't actually end well either.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 2:26 p.m.

    I also hope the Department of Homeland Security keeps a list of each and everyone who signed it,
    and carefully tracks them using Bush/Cheney's "Patriot Act",
    and places them on the watch list of potential "Domestic Terrorists" ala, Timothy McViegh.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 2:22 p.m.

    I invoke the Utah State motto:

    If you don't like it, leave.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Nov. 13, 2012 2:14 p.m.

    Ah, Insanity!

    Ain't it wonderful.