Undecided voters not swayed by final debate

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  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 25, 2012 4:47 p.m.

    Well by George if the final debate didn't do it then most certainly this new 20 page "How I'm going to save America" booklet will (better known as Wealth Redistribution For Dummies). Expect to see a big government plane with Obama's smiling face painted on the tail flying over a neighborhood near you dropping thousands of these propaganda pamphlets ... just like the Nazi's did in 1940 over Europe. Yes this 20 page gem ought to really do the trick - answer all the unanswered questions and explain - in detail - how only Barack can. I think a new Obama phone would be worth more!!

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Oct. 24, 2012 9:46 a.m.

    Blue Devil states "And there are no active wars - big change compared to just 4 years ago. Things are going on - just because the DN doesn't cary it, doesn't mean we aren't actively engaged in many theaters in the world. The US doesn't do PR on covert operations."

    No active wars but "actively engaged in many theaters", don't call it a war and it is ok. Remember in the fifties it was a police action in Korea, in the sixties it was a police action in Vietnam. If we are actively engaged we are at war.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Oct. 24, 2012 9:42 a.m.

    Blue Devil alleges that due to Obama "Somalia has a recorded sense of peace in its capital".

    The British take on Somalia: "We advise against all travel to Somalia. There is a high threat to western, including British, interests from terrorism in Somalia, including Somaliland. Attacks could be indiscriminate, including in places frequented by expatriates and foreign travelers. Since the death of Osama Bin Laden terrorist groups operating in Somalia have made threats against Westerners and those working for western organizations in Somalia, including Somaliland. There is ongoing serious violence between opposing factions."

    He also states "No one is backing down to North Korea anymore."
    A recent statement by North Korea on October 9, 2012. "We do not hide ... the strategic rocket forces are keeping within the scope of strike not only the bases of the puppet forces and the US. imperialist aggression forces; bases in the inviolable land of Korea but also Japan, Guam and the US. mainland"

  • jasonlivy Orem, UT
    Oct. 24, 2012 12:11 a.m.


    Why has Obama's White House lied about terror attacks? Why does he consistently deny that terror still exists? Bengazi was a fatal blow to Obama's foreign policy. He has no answers other than he's going to 'track down the perps'.

    Obama takes credit for so much of what he didn't do! He's apologetic and has weakened America in the world's eyes. Through Obama's leadership, we have become a weaker nation as evidenced by our continuing slide in education, our economy, etc. We see China beginning to gain power. He's promised Russia more leeway once the elections are over. This should terrify every American. Iran is closer now to a nuclear weapon than it was 4 years ago. They have over 10,000 centrifuges in operation. How's he going to stop them from getting a nuclear weapon when he's been so unsuccessful thus far?

    Terrorists see this. They see our weakness and the weakness of our government. They are not afraid to attack. We are less secure because of it. Our nation is in a terrible mess! Why defend this president?

  • jasonlivy Orem, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 11:47 p.m.


    Does it surprise anyone that Obama has failed in his promises to cut the deficit in half or to grow the economy? When he was elected, many overlooked the fact that he simply wasn't qualified to be president! Because of his leadership, our government, and thus our nation, is in the shape it's in today.

    He was a community organizer. He went to Harvard and was the president of the law review. But this does not qualify you for the hardest job in the world. To say he was unqualified is a huge understatement.

    How do we know Romney will do any better? He was a very successful businessman. He has real-world experience when it comes to business. In fact, he's uniquely qualified as anyone in our country today to tackle the problems our economy faces based on his time at Bain Capital. His experience as an ecclesiastical leader should also be considered. He was a Republican governor who worked with a Democratic congress to get many things done. Obama's leadership has divided the Congress unlike anything that's been seen in Washington.

    Obama has failed. Romney is a far better alternative, period.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 23, 2012 7:33 p.m.

    "Romney could have beat Obama into a pulp "

    ... and there you have it. Thankfully, some people understand this is just politics, and reframe from statements like this.

    "Romney set himself up to let Obama attack and show his true colors. "

    And those colors would be what? That Romney has spent the last 4 years running for office, that he has criticized the president at every opportunity, and now, he decides he isn't going to do the critical thing anymore. Do we really need to post all the claims Romney has made about the President? Really.

    You know, it would be so refreshing to have a discussion where people actually acknowledged the good and the differences between the people instead of falling off to the silly my guy is perfect - the other is a complete idiot. Can we not get any more integrity into the conversation.

    Lets be really clear about the economics of top down policies. When Reagan took office, the deficit sat at a little more than 900 billion dollars. By the end of the Reagan run, the deficit was a little over 3.2 trillion. So please, lets stop the word play and silly false comparisons.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 5:19 p.m.

    Romney could have beat Obama into a pulp using Obama's own words and policies. However, since he didn't, you should ask yourself why. Some commentators are guessing (supported by poll results) that Romney was out to prove that he is the the war monger that Obama claims, nor is he out of touch. Romney set himself up to let Obama attack and show his true colors. We were able to see that Obama does not have a grasp on facts, and that when confronted with his own record will attack the person rather than defend himself.

    Romney is running on Obama's record more than Obama is, and that should worry the Obama supporters.

    Obama showed how he is out of touch with the middle class because he keeps saying that the economy is fine, while fewer people work and more people give up looking for jobs.

  • SLMG Murtoa Australia, Victoria
    Oct. 23, 2012 2:37 p.m.

    Folks, it is politics plain and simple and we all have a different take on what was said. In the end regardless of the debates and what happens in the media or the polls the out come is totally in the hands of the voters. The only guide you should follow is your own mind, make it up and vote. Quit tearing at the candidates because in the end the only poll that counts is when the votes are counted. Both Obama and Romney are fine men, both want the best for there country and no one goes in to politics to do harm. They each have different plans, pick the one that suits you best and vote for it but regardless of the winner the the United States of America will stand strong not because of who is elected President but because of the strength of her people

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 23, 2012 11:35 a.m.

    JWB - put down the talking points. "Obama doesn't have a foreign, domestic or economic policy" is probably one of the most false statements made here.

    Obama does have a foreign policy. 3 dictators dead. Syria is about to have regime change. Hundreds of Terrorist dead. Samalia has a recored sense of peace in its capital. Hugo Chavez is not even covered in the news anymore. China and Russia are support sanctions agains Iran - something the previous administration couldn't do. No one is backing down to North Korea anymore. Piracy on the open seas has come down through enforcement by a global protection force. We are out or Iraq. Afghanistan is ending. What part of that don't you understand? And there are no active wars - big change compared to just 4 years ago. Things are going on - just because the DN doesn't cary it, doesn't mean we aren't actively engaged in many theaters in the world. The US doesn't do PR on covert operations.

    MItt showed no foreign policies of his own and agreed with most of what has been done.

    So please, turn off the talk radio and Fox.

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 11:27 a.m.

    "his" congregation? how about the upcoming landslide in his favor not from his congregation.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 23, 2012 11:24 a.m.

    " The President showed so much dislike to the Governor, I can see why the President didn't discuss Israel with their leader a month ago. To listen to the President say how important Israel is to him, I had to pinch myself and see if I was actually listening to the President say that."

    What a mind bending statement. The idea that Obama needs to be having brunch with the leader of Israel to prove we are dedicated to protecting our friend is a statement that illustrate just how little people understand foreign policy. As in criminal justice, the way you make a town safe is by spending time keeping an eye on and making sure that would hurt you understand the stakes. Hanging with buddies doesn't do that. Going to those nations that have direct influence on Israel's safety is not only the prudent thing to do, it is the way make sure these nations understand our policies, and our intents. Making political picture ops does nothing to enforce peace.

    The fact that you didn't see both families talking together on stage afterward shows some people don't understand where politics ends, and civility starts.

  • Whoa Nellie American Fork, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 11:06 a.m.

    Obama is the most disingenuous person to run for office since recording devices were invented.

    Who would the people get if they re-elect Obama? The guy who insists on spending more on a bad healthcare program nobody wants or the liar who keeps saying, Governor, that's just not true? (Hint: same person, same character)

    It's one thing to try and change your record, another to change facts when confronted with the truth.

    Apparently Obama is unaware that what he says is recorded (even in public) and can later be used to prove he's "misleading" or outright lying.

    Never qualified for the job.

    Not honest in what he says or does.

    He acts and sounds like someone on commission, who will say anything to get the sale.

    Oct. 23, 2012 10:43 a.m.

    Romney appears to have a foreign policy its called I will do everything Obama has ben doing.

    well that depends on which Romney you are talking about the primary Romney or the Romney last night. The Romney last night wagged his tail and drooled all over himself in agreement with everything Obama said are far cry from the Romney that tried to paint Obama as wrong on every foreign policy when he was in the primary and even just a week ago but no worries I am sure he can give his etc a sketch a good shake and get back on track.

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 10:36 a.m.

    @fitness freak

    Romney came ready to endorse Obama and practically every foreign policy Obama has.

  • Wanda B. Rich Provo, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 10:21 a.m.

    It was enlightening to watch the CNN undecided voter panel and then switch over to the KSL/DN panel. It was pretty funny. The CNN undecideds sounded like genuinely undecided voters. The KSL/DN people all sounded like Romney supporters who were convinced by his unconvincing performance that, yes indeed, they were now even stronger Romney supporters. Where did they find these supposedly undecided voters? Hilarious.

  • BigRich Orem, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 9:55 a.m.

    RE: JoeBlow's re=phrase. Liberals claim Romney is warmongering but never cite statements that would show an established hawkish position. Labels are so convenient and easy to use because you can just throw them out there without substantiation. The only war mongering I saw last night was a president on the defensive using smirks and stares and personal attacks to hide a woefully poor record. We heard, "I'm going to do this" which beggars the question, "why are you just now starting?"

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 9:52 a.m.

    Undecided probably means they are still trying to figure out what the definition of "is" is from our President. With the downtrodden Hillary and the highly professional and dedicated Intelligence community, we know they are licking their wounds everyday. Benghazi was not discussed much last night, as Bob Schieffer, a professional journalist, is still siding with Obama when he made a snide remark about Mitt loving teachers.

    Obama spent his whole 3 debates avoiding to discuss his record. He thought he could just show up with his excessive number of Czars and staff and everything in the world would be better for the past 4 years.

    He wanted to make us bow at his every wish. Pelosi and Reid found out that included them, to their dismay. I don't know where they thought diplomacy was but it wasn't there for them as they attempted to lead their parlimentary positions and abilities for the good of the country.

    When Pelosi said to pass the bill and then read it, that shows you how frustrated she was to make that kind of statement, publicly. What an embarrassment for her and her potential legacy.

    I can see how some are undecided.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 9:45 a.m.

    Obama doesn't have a foreign, domestic or economic policy. He talks down to all people and not just us common folks that live in His country. Having lived in dictator type countries, the way our President talks down to us and to the person he is debating or probably talking with, such as the leaders of any country, whether an ally or not, people know they are being talked down to.

    It is easy to see why he has Czars and not just a Cabinet, these people have to do the important talking for him. I bet those people, except for enjoying the power and prestige they get working for the President, really don't like him talking down to them, also.

    When dictators rule, such as Syria for now, with so many of their citizens dead, injured, maimed and just plain afraid of the end of a weapon or being blown up, people are not anything. The way our President treated Romney is not much different.

    Showing up on television and radio with the talk down to voice and diction is very demeaning.

    Our country deserves more than we have had in the past 4 years. Peace Prize?

  • Wonderpus Salt Lake City, Salt Lake, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 9:44 a.m.

    Romney's closing remarks reminded me of a Miss America pageant... the naivety was so thick It made my eyes water. It's now clear Romney holds the same world/ historical view as the majority of his congregation: Airbrushed. I sure hope Romney gets the picture after his second campaign fails, though it wouldn't surprise me to see him run again. He seems to love the campaigning.

  • Gr8Dane Tremonton, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 9:40 a.m.

    I'm sorry, but anyone who has been half way paying attention at all, and is still undecided about the Presidential Race, has no business being in the voting both. The choice couldn't be more stark for the future of this country.

    Continued economic catastrophe, unemployment, crushing debt with compounding interest, higher taxes, more of the 47% wanting "theirs" and their "Obamaphone." Weakened military. Aggression by third world despots not deterred by a weak Obama. Putin waiting for Medvedev to "Transmit" instructions (..."must kill Moose and Squirrell.... only baby boomers will get that reference).

    Or vote for a real commander-in chief who respects strength, strong economy, jobs, and national defense.

    Gee....hummm...... Such a difficult decsion.... NOT!

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Oct. 23, 2012 9:25 a.m.

    "Romney was smart not to fall into the war-monger trap that Obama was trying to paint him into."

    Let me re-phrase

    Romney successfully avoided reiterating his previous, war-mongering positions that were necessary to get the right on board.

    Basically, with only minor deviations, gave a full endorsement of Obama's foreign policy.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 23, 2012 8:29 a.m.

    Re: KJB1 Eugene, OR
    "CNN's poll also said that Obama won tonight by 8 points. "

    Yes but Obama lost the most important critical first debate that lead to his steady drop in the polls ever since. After the dust clears and they conduct an autopsy on Obama's failed re-election bid they will blame it on that 2-hour disaster.

    Real bummer for the liberal crowd.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 8:27 a.m.

    Did anyone else notice how bo danced away from the "apology tour". When Romney started to give quotes from bo himself as he went around the middle east and apologized that the United States is the greatest country in the world. I guess that's why bo got rid of our space program and made their new mission, to help muslim nations feel good about their role in math and science. Really?

    bo comment about the horses and bayonets was stupid. First he worded it wrong. I think he meant to say that the military uses fewer horses than they did in 1916. Although Mitt was talking about 1917 and on (minor detail). But in case bo hasn't noticed even though he claimed ocean levels are rising. There is more water than land. The country that controls the water controls commerce.

    I loved Mitt when he had to point out to barack how much we export compared to imports. It wouldn't be in china's interest to start a trade war when it's that lopsided.

    Then again clinton and obama's big donors come from china. Again overseas money influencing our leaders.

  • Third try screen name Mapleton, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 8:25 a.m.

    A sample of nine undecided voters is a quote factory, not a valid analysis.
    Then again, in our polarized state, maybe nine is the total number of undecideds.

    Oct. 23, 2012 8:22 a.m.

    How is it even possible to be undecided at this point? Either they have not been paying attention for the past - seems like forever that this campaign has been going on - or they've decided this is their path to their 15 minutes.

    Pretty much every person quoted in this article is obviously "decided."

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 7:59 a.m.

    If you're an undecided voter at this point the only reason can be because you like all the attention. The candidates and the two parties are very far apart on most issues. An undecided voter is the person that came to a fork in the road and sits there for all time and eternity debating which path to go.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 7:56 a.m.

    Mitt is the most disingenuous person to run for office since recording devices were invented.

    Who would the people get if they elect mitt? The warmonger who insists on spending more on the military or the guy who kept saying I agree with the president's position but more?

    It's one thing to change your opinion when you get more information, another to satisfy your donors or audience.
    Apparently unaware that what he says is recorded (even in public) and can later be used to prove he's "misleading" or outright lying.

    Not ready for the job.

    Not honest in what he says.

    He acts and sounds like someone on commission, who will say anything to get the sale.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 23, 2012 7:49 a.m.

    So this group of "undecided" voters all praised Romney, and had only complaints about Obama..... ah.... yes.... imagine that. Evidently the debate was a knock out. Utah truly is a unique place in the nation.

    If these undecided voters so glowingly praised Romney - and were so critical of Obama, why in the world are they still undecided? Only two possible explanations. 1) there is still something fundamentally wrong with Romney or 2) they weren't undecided at all.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 7:07 a.m.

    The moderate from Massachusetts leaves the right wing. Fox and friends were confused by the low flying dove.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 6:22 a.m.

    Romney came ready to discuss foreign policy. Obama came ready to talk about Romney. But then if I were Obama I wouldn't want to talk about my foreign policy either.

    If the lamestream media weren't cheerleading for Obama, Romney would be ahead by 15 pts. Obama just doesn't have the leadership qualities we need.

  • Emajor Ogden, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 6:06 a.m.

    "He said 'peace' a lot, and that just really stuck with me," she said, along with a statement about the country's greatest generation passing a torch. "I felt it."

    So this is the kind of reasoning some people use when deciding which presidential candidate to choose? Lovely. Maybe the power to vote shouldn't be given out to everybody after all. We tend to think of undecided voters as being more thoughtful and deliberate than party hardliners. Apparently not all of them! Seriously, if this is the kind of rationale you find yourself using when deciding on a candidate, just stay home.

    "We have to educate ourselves," Hudson said. "We can't make a decision on a debate."

    There you go, that's more like it.

  • NeilT Clearfield, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 6:03 a.m.

    Romney wants to dramtically increase military spending. I know from the first hand experience there is a lot of wasteful spending in the military. We can cut military spending and still maintain a strong national defense. Romney seems to want to give the military a blank check to spend as they see fit. I am voting for Romney. I hope he comes to his senses on miltary spending.

  • SammyB Provo, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 4:17 a.m.

    With the lesson of Candy Crowley having in her hand, an out of context quote regarding Libya, and her aggressive interference and double-teaming with Obama in the second debate, Romney was being careful not to step into planned traps.

    If Romney didn't have to worry about the mine-field set by the media, then he could have been bolder, but at this point, liberals will do anything to derail Mitt.

    It least Mitt was finally able to nail Obama on his lie about the auto bailout. Four years ago I watched Romney say exactly what he claimed. Obama got away with that lie far too long and he was furious and sputtering when Mitt didn't roll over on that point.

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 23, 2012 12:50 a.m.

    I am in Paris France today and the businessmen here want Romney for POTUS! He clearly won tonights debate, he has the momentum and will coast into the white house.....good bye Barak Hussien Obama!

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 22, 2012 11:53 p.m.

    The unions and many billionares support Obama and not just normal people. He gets very large donations from outside the United States, also.

    When I looked and listened to the debate tonight, I saw that Governor Romney could work across the aisle even with this President. The President showed so much dislike to the Governor, I can see why the President didn't discuss Israel with their leader a month ago. To listen to the President say how important Israel is to him, I had to pinch myself and see if I was actually listening to the President say that.

    This President went to Hollywood to be with people he emulates instead of doing his Constitutional duties and the diplomatic protocol. The President avoided almost every question that was against what he wanted to talk about.

    It is discouraging to listen to people discuss their entitlements. The economy needs to improve or this money for those programs cannot be managed or run. The President thinks he can spend, spend and spend. He has an open purse and people just want their share and the President will do anything to get re-elected.

    This President won't deal with real people.

  • Mad Hatter Provo, UT
    Oct. 22, 2012 11:42 p.m.

    JWB Kaysville, UT

    "This President looked at Governor Romney all night with disdain and almost with hatred as the Governor made some challening remarks that questioned the President's integrity and honesty."

    One might assume with 100% accuracy that you are a Romney true believer. This is OK and your comments reflect this attitude. It only goes to show how differently people may see an event. Your "distain and . . . hatred" is someone else's "respect and attention". Fortunately you live in Utah and your vote will make no difference. Your opinion is noted.

    Extreme partisan comments like "People that are enabled with welfare and other government or taxpayer handouts devinitely (sic) want Obama" only reaffirm that attitude. However, I don't think that major corporate executives who benefit from "government or taxpayer handouts" are pro-Obama.

  • Salsa Libre Provo, UT
    Oct. 22, 2012 11:26 p.m.

    I'm certain that the "undecided" voters have already made up their minds. If they live in Utah, their decision was made 4 years ago.

    As for "undecided" voters in the so-called Swing States, I think they have become so tired with all the telephone calls that they may just say that they are voting for the other guy just to confuse the pollsters. Although I don't think that a truly "independent" voter still exists, the behavior of the national polls only confirms the closeness of the race.

    What was interesting was the two Obamas sitting at the desk during much of the debate. You wondered where Republican Primary Romney was since he was not in evidence for much of the debate I watched. As Newt Gingrich complained, was Mitt Romney really just a Massachusetts moderate dressed in Tea Party vestments in order to win the nomination? It was so confusing. I began to see some of his father in him after all these years of campaigning.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 22, 2012 11:23 p.m.

    Mitt Romney didn't get pulled into any of the traps that the President was attempting to snare the Governor. In watching the pundits of the President's campaign acting like cheer leaders instead of advisors were unprofessional in how they did spinning what happened during the debate.

    The President was very real acting the same as he did in previous debates. Callers to programs in the various media forums were listening to the debate and used the President's terminology of all over the board or map is what they used in their conversation, especially on the liberal type television stations. It will be interesting to listen to the conservative moderators on Tuesday radio stations. Liberals do the calling to their liberal stations and even some call in as undecided and then say they are Obama.

    This President looked at Governor Romney all night with disdain and almost with hatred as the Governor made some challening remarks that questioned the President's integrity and honesty.

    I believe Mitt Romney did very well in controlling his words and actions acting like a Commander-in-Chief. People that are enabled with welfare and other government or taxpayer handouts devinitely want Obama.

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Oct. 22, 2012 11:23 p.m.

    CNN's poll also said that Obama won tonight by 8 points. And in CBS' poll of uncommitted voters, Obama beat Romney by 20 points.

  • deep in thought Salt Lake, UT
    Oct. 22, 2012 10:51 p.m.

    CNN post debate poll: Who did the debate make you more likely to vote for?

    25% Romney
    24% Obama
    50% Neither - no change

    I felt like Romney was smart playing the bigger person while Obama took the position of the challenger with personal attacks. Romney was smart not to fall into the war-monger trap that Obama was trying to paint him into. Loved the closing arguments.