High school football: UHSAA overturns ruling; East will make playoffs as fourth seed, Timpview forfeits stand

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  • OregonCougar Lindon, UT
    Oct. 22, 2012 10:49 a.m.

    In reading all of the information on the rulings, I have not seen one thing that mentions what exactly does 3 years of probation mean for East and Timpview. What does probation mean for Utah high school programs? Do they not have football programs for 3 years, lose scholarships, fewer recruiting trips, etc? What does probation mean in this sense? Someone please enlighten me.

  • news.john2 Orem, UT
    Oct. 22, 2012 10:25 a.m.

    I have been confused by the various new reports, did East play one or four ineligible players?

  • MINER PRIDE south jordan, UT
    Oct. 22, 2012 2:32 a.m.

    the reason why u guys were able to "work" East was because u guys are different style football teams. your pass offense vs their run offense and on that particular night (especially with what was going on) i admit u guys did outplay them. but make no mistake, ive seen both Logan and Timpview play and im sorry but Timpview is basically a better version of Logan so be careful what u wish for.
    Go Miners! this may not be our year but anything can happen!

  • VariedHue Logan, UT
    Oct. 21, 2012 9:59 p.m.

    Logan Worked East and will do the same to Timpview. Bring it on!

  • Enochrsn CEDAR CITY, UT
    Oct. 21, 2012 9:08 p.m.

    @ Eagle

    You stated the decision was made by high school administrators. Let me clarify...

    The Executive Committee that made the original decision to have all games forfeited is made up of high school principals. They reversed the decision of the Region 6 Principals which went against what has always been adhered to across the state when a school uses a player that is not deemed eligible (whether intentionally or unintentionally).

    The Board of Trustees that then reversed the decision of the Executive Committee is made up of school board members from each of the Regions throughout Utah. They trump the Executive Committee. For some unknown reason, they went away from the decision and tried to create some quasi-policy that has no hope of being enforceable in the future.

    If you are familiar with a school district setting, it is the same as a high school principal making a decision which is consistent with district policy. Then the parent goes to the school board, cries and begs for a different answer only to have the school board cave in. I too would love to know the BOT members that created this mess for all future regions to deal with.

  • Brighton Alum Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 21, 2012 7:20 p.m.

    In our legal system people charged with the same crime receive different punishments EVERY SINGLE DAY. Based on the circumstances of each particular situation-with variations for Judge, Jury and Attorneys involved. This is not any different. As long as rules and laws are applied different outcomes are allowed for the same charges. And frankly unless any of us have the entire story--which I am guessing no one does--we really can not comment on these issues intelligently.

  • eagle Provo, UT
    Oct. 21, 2012 4:51 p.m.

    Again, the people that made these decisions are HIGH SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS. There is directors that work full time to coordinate the different state competitions, track paper work and put together record books etc. Perhaps if these directors, many of which have administrative and sports experience and who are non bound toschools or other friends in administration could have made this decision, I think things would be differently. This is the change that needs to be made with the UHSAA. These directors truly need to be trusted to make decisions and thus we know who made these decisions. I wonder if the names of the Board of Trustees could or should be released so we know who to hold directly accountable for these rulings. Were they the same people in both decisions? If so, could some have axes to grind with Timpview, which had the rules enforced against them, but friends to East where they didn't get the same treatment but in a sense skirted punishment? Also, it seems that no thought was given to the unintended consequences of these decisions. Good journalism and transparency is needed so we know who actually made these rulings...

  • utahfootballfun South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 21, 2012 1:29 p.m.

    I'm just curious...who is the Utah High School Athletics Association accountable to? I assume they are paid with Tax Payer dollars. Regardless of what side you are on, I think everyone can agree that the handling of this issue was really messed up. Hopefully the powers that be will be held accountable. I think the UHSA are confusing themselves to be a bit more than they really are. This shouldn't be a power trip for them like the Commissioner's of Pro Sports or even the NCAA...they should take a step back and really look at who they really are. I think their is a real competency gap and it will be addressed...I guess that is the one positive outcome of this mess. In the meantime, let's get the focus back on the kids and move forward support our student athletes and quit feeling sorry for ourselves that we are stuck with playing Timpview or East in the early rounds. If we are a legitimate contender...we are going to have to beat them eventually anyway.

  • eagle Provo, UT
    Oct. 21, 2012 11:26 a.m.

    How about Salem Hills and Springville who were left out of the playoffs because the UHSAA BOT decided to enforce Timpview's forfeits but not East and gift wrapped and appearance for Mountain View in the play-offs.

    I would say the losers of this were 1) Salem Hills and Springville tied for first 2) Cyprus who should be in if the UHSAA enforces its rules like it should 3) Mountain View/Herriman who get to play East now in the fourth spot 4) Logan who now has to play Timpview sho slid to third because again the UHSAA enforced its rules against Timpview but not East.

    The biggest winners are East obviously. But WX, Bountiful and Highland moved up a spot an got easier opponents. Maple Mountain goes from playing Logan on the road to getting Box Elder on the road, I would say this worked out well for them. Mountain View, yes they will play East but avoided a play-in game with Salem Hills and Springville due to gaining fifth place via a forfeit win. Orem moved up as well and got an easier first round opponent.

    The decision(s) had huge impacts...

  • Pirate Mom Magna, UT
    Oct. 21, 2012 12:50 a.m.

    How is it that a school with a 4-6 record (Mtn View) is in the playoffs but a school with a 5-5 record (Cyprus) is not? Maybe it is time to do away with Regions and just let the however many teams with the best records play!

  • Pirate Mom Magna, UT
    Oct. 21, 2012 12:08 a.m.

    Step into the shoes of a Cyprus football player for a moment. You have a brand new coach from out of state that you know nothing about but you and your team rally to have the best season in a long time. You end with a 5-5 record but because you play in one of the hardest 4A regions you don't make the playoffs. Until East is penalized for cheating then you get to be in a play-in game. But wait East gets rewarded for cheating and is back in and you are back out. How would you feel? Everybody says "poor East". What about poor Cyprus who is ranked 18th in 4A in the state but Mtn View who is ranked 20th and has a 2-7 record is in! Maybe it is time to get rid of regions and just let the top however many teams play in the playoffs!

  • UteFan21 HERRIMAN, UT
    Oct. 20, 2012 11:23 p.m.

    So UHSAA, please enlighten us: what is East's final record that puts them as the 4th place team in Region 6? Oh, that's right, you won't say. Just be honest: You arbitrarily decided that because enough East kids, administrators and coaches cried on camera that you let them in the playoffs. Either they're guilty (forfeit ALL games with ineligible players) or not (they then remain #1 in Region 6).

    Forget the integrity of the game. Forget the mess that you've created now and in the future. Forget the impact on all of the other players and schools who played by the rules (Cyprus, Mtn. View, Logan, Herriman, etc) who now get the shaft because you caved to the East pressure. Forget the fact that you've created a double standard that if your East it's OK to play with ineligible players, but if you're Timpview it's not.

    I have a simple solution: Let's abolish the UHSAA. It's clear that this is an organization that is not interested in the welfare of Utah high school athletes.

  • eagle Provo, UT
    Oct. 20, 2012 11:18 p.m.

    It is important to realize who the UHSAA actually is. There is the board of directors led by Rob Cuff. He has four associate directors I do believe. They are to administer the competitions, keep track of records etc.

    But who made this decision? It was the UHSAA Board of Trustees who are principals from various schools. So when one bashes the UHSAA, for this particular issue, they really should be bashing the high school administrators across the state. Of course Cuff or the lawyer for the UHSAA (VanWagoner) has the unenviable task of explaining or defending these decisions.

    But in reality, the UHSAA is really just a governing body of high school administrators with the front people who administer the competitions, handle the paperwork, keep track of records etc. who often get the blame for these silly decisions...

  • 123UTAH Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 20, 2012 10:23 p.m.

    The UHSAA needs to be dissolved. They are just a bunch of power hungry people who don't know what they are doing! The best thing that could happen is if the other teams protest EAST. East can just play themselves.

  • Brighton Alum Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 20, 2012 8:54 p.m.

    InterestedSportsFan you bring up a very interesting point with the questions about if the East players are "eligible by definition". I was told that each one of the players in question would be eligible with a simple form and would not have required any special consideration from UHSAA. They said that these players had not played high school sports anywhere else ever except for 1 and he hadn't played for two years. If this is in fact true I think it is makes a big difference. If these players would have been deemed eligible I think that is totally different then players who are ineligible for other reasons (ie. recruitment, grades etc).

  • SportsFan1 South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 20, 2012 6:36 p.m.

    Just because a bunch of kids and the coach cry on camera they should not be allowed to break the rules. Break the rules pay the price, all involved including the players

  • InterestedSportsFan Salt Lake City, Ut
    Oct. 20, 2012 4:45 p.m.

    Why is UHSAA so difficult. So much of what I've read regarding this issue wouldn't be so controversial if the UHSAA implemented a better process. It's just like income tax. Require all schools to submit the proper forms. Reserve the right to audit. If an error can be fixed then correct it. If if can't then there is deception. Just like taxes if there is cheating or deception, there is punishment. The real question here is "are the East players by definition eligible?" Why didn't the UHSAA review each player in question and determine if in fact they would have been deemed eligible? Everyone seems so caught up with the idea this has more to do with a "form" and when/if it was submitted.

  • MrAGoncalves west point, UT
    Oct. 20, 2012 4:24 p.m.

    Not fair for Mountain View who is a 4-6 team have to play a number one team East, even though East is a fourth seed team with a record of 8-1. East (8-1) at Mountain View (4-6)

  • CheetahMahi Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 20, 2012 11:16 a.m.

    I think this was a merciful decision and I'm happily surprised that East gets to play. Can people really complain about lesser teams not getting into the playoffs, or about not having easier early round match-ups? I assume these people value fairness way over competition- understandable. In that case, respect that East has gone through a long and hard process, hardest for their student-athletes, who really didn't have a hand in the mistakes. Either way, a decision would have been controversial. Other than the fine, I personally like what was decided. It is really unfortunate that East and Timpview had region titles taken away, when they are clearly the best in their regions, but I guess it's "fair".

  • needruff LOGAN, UT
    Oct. 20, 2012 9:54 a.m.

    I think Logan, got the shortest end of the stick here. After all is said and done.

  • Oatmeal Woods Cross, UT
    Oct. 20, 2012 9:29 a.m.

    High school athletics is a mess. We need to toughen up and enforce eligibility requirements.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Oct. 20, 2012 9:10 a.m.

    Leave it to Big Eudcation to teach kids cheating is OK.

  • Tiggerr Orem, UT
    Oct. 20, 2012 9:03 a.m.

    Perhaps this is unfair for Mtn View. Now after they beat the real Region 6 Champion, they have to turn around on Saturday and beat the Region 7 Champion in their first round. Did anyone ever think of that!!!!

  • EJM Herriman, UT
    Oct. 20, 2012 9:02 a.m.

    This was an ugly situation all the way around. I had the chance to talk to one of the trustees when they were wrestling with the initial situation and I knew without him going into specifics that they were dealing with East and I could tell he was not happy with where they going with it all. Penalize the kids, penalize the coaches, penalize the administration?

    With that said as a high school coach I will say that the ultimate responsibility of eligibility lies with the head coach and not the AD. Any question at all dealing with eligibility and the athlete sits. No question at all. Coach Matich didn't do his due diligence. And the athletes and their parents who were involved should be ashamed. They have forgotten that their first responsibility is to just go to school.

  • Bruzzer Ogden, UT
    Oct. 20, 2012 7:30 a.m.

    Ok you fine both school 7500 total where does that money go?( a Xmas Party) Why not rent Utah State and have a double header Mtn Crest and Logan Both have Home field

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Oct. 20, 2012 7:22 a.m.

    Not good for the integrity of the sport, 120 "innocent" student athletes excepted. Next stop, Bingham and Cottonwood.

  • Backtothebasics Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 20, 2012 7:13 a.m.

    Logan's coach Favero is right...this is about the integrity of high school sports in the state of Utah. Match needs to show integrity and resign, especially after Kathy Butler did so. Coaches have their responsibility in the eligibility process and he needs to take his portion of responsibility. East principal Sagers signed his name to documents that stated all listed players were eligible. I guess a case could be made for him resigning as well. This would show the state that those who had responsibility, took the consequences for their actions. That would show the players that it doesn't pay to be dishonest. Meanwhile, get the process fixed so this doesn't happen again! UHSAA needs to take responsibility for this immediately!

  • scrappy do DRAPER, UT
    Oct. 20, 2012 7:01 a.m.

    So Timpview takes a forfeit for each game where an ineligible player played but East does not... Were East's players less ineligible than Timpviews player???

    Is that possible? What gives? Am I living in a parallel universe?

  • 2020 Herriman, UT
    Oct. 20, 2012 6:53 a.m.

    It's ironic they said they wanted to treat them like snow canyon, because they didn't. They made snow canyon forfeit every game they used an ineligible player in. That's why the best baseball team in the state was a 4 seed in the tournament. Not becausethre the UHSAA "treated them" in any special manner. I'm fine that East is in, but they should be in the spot they earned or out. Don't mess integrity of the entire tournament. Unbelievable!

  • footballfan22 Herriman/Salt Lake, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 11:28 p.m.

    Terrible decision - why didn't they just go along with the region decisions The UHSAA can order games be forfeited, but it can not change the quality of the teams. Letting the top ranked team come in at the #4 position upsets the entire seeking process. This will be remembered not so much for the lack of oversight by East, but by the way the UHSAA decision affected the playoffs. Now we know why the rule reads "may forfeit". By overruling the regional decisions and requiring forfeitures at all costs shreds the seeding process meant to assure the top teams meet in the finals.

  • OhNoNotAgain Taylorsville, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 11:08 p.m.

    DiamondDad- I dont think many people in Herriman are upset about playing East. Infact, the few I know there say "bring it on." But you have to admit this decision is quite a stretch. I mean, how often does a #1 seed have to play a #1 team because someone forgot to do the paperwork?

  • eagle Provo, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 10:45 p.m.

    A little relatively unknown side story. Four years ago several students at Provo HS changed their attendance. Back then attendance was tied to academic grades, this is no longer actually the case but it was at this time. Several of the students were athletes including two baseball players. They actually earned or had high enough percentages to earn academic credit but since the changed their attendance they received a no grade in two classes, making them ineligible according to UHSAA rules. The two played very sparingly in two region games. The region met and made Provo forfeit these two games. The coaches and administrators supported that decision and took it no further. In this case the rest of the players nor the administrators, coaches or athletic director had knowledge of these kids actions until the scandal broke. So everyone was "innocent" except the players involved, who again by the way would actually received academic credit based on Provo School Districts recent decision on tying attendance to academic grades. Bottom line, it seems that East got off easy while Timpview, Snow Canyon and Provo here got worked over by the UHSAA.

  • Sloth Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 10:43 p.m.

    What a joke! I felt terrible for the kids at East, but like many have said, the rules were broken. End of story. I would be ok with this decision if there were not other cases (example: Snow Canyon baseball) where the written rules were enforced. You play ineligible kids, you forfeit the games they played in. Pretty clear to me. Why do we even have rules if they don't get enforced? Poor outcome in my opinion that now results in a lot of gray area and more problems to come. Good luck to all teams in the playoffs. I agree with JParkerfan from St. George: UHSAA=Double Standard.

  • 86&90UTE Holladay, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 10:34 p.m.

    This road to a state championship is simple and fair for everyone. Win four games (five for East or MV) and you are champions! Who cares who has tough first round match ups. You are going to have to beat some very good teams at some point in time to take state. By the way, East, at 8-1, has the most unfair path. Clearly a one seed, they have a road play in game, then possibly a road game against a one seed. Hmmmm. It would be an amazing accomplishment for East to regroup after this crap and win five games in a row.

  • cvguy Lehi, Utah
    Oct. 19, 2012 10:24 p.m.

    The Snow Canyon comparison is interesting. I wonder if East High supporters had more access to the UHSAA than Snow Canyon did. The inconsistencies with the UHSAA are unbelievable.

  • OhNoNotAgain Taylorsville, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 10:22 p.m.

    It's pretty simple. East broke the rule(s) or they didnt. If they did, they should be penalized. If they didn't, they should be placed in the bracket as though nothing is wrong. The other teams can deal with the idea that maybe there was cheating or maybe their wasnt. What they cant deal with is a decision that gives a greater advantage than actually having to play the games.

    Instead of being unfair to one team, UHSAA managed to make it unfair for EVERYONE.

    The implications of this decision are bigger that just one game or playoff round. This shows just how incapable the UHSAA is at doing the job they are supposed to doing in the first place.

  • DiamondDad Holladay, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 10:22 p.m.

    Ok people, please chill! Herriman won A LUCKY ( unlucky) coin flip to be the #1 seed. So what if they have to play East. It was determined by LUCK. Besides, would Herriman rather play East at home or at RES? To be the best, you need to beat the best. Quit whining!!

  • JParkerfan St. George, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 10:01 p.m.

    The UHSAA is a joke and a sham. Who is this person trying to equate East and Snow Canyon? SC forfeited all games and had to win out just to go to state as the 4th seed. If you make your case that inelligible players = forfeited wins, then stick to it. Don't make yourselves look foolish by having a double standard.

  • Whattheheck? Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 9:39 p.m.

    Not a good decision...a WIN-LOSE. Win for East, lose for Cyprus. Win for TV, lose for Salem Hills and Springville. More kids get hurt by UHSAA decision than if they would have stuck with their first decision...the REALLY innocent ones. Shame on East, shame on UHSAA!

  • youtefan Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 8:50 p.m.

    Do you really think the East High coaches ans players did't know who on their team had played at a previos high school ? The kids know!!! East got away with cheating! Shame on everyone at East! How are the rest of us suppose to teach our children! Just say'n!

  • eagle Provo, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 8:23 p.m.

    So has anyone considered Salem Hills and Springville and their right to have a chance to compete at state? They were the biggest losers in this debacle...

  • eagle Provo, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 7:59 p.m.

    So let me get this straight, the two schools that got the most punished were Springville and Salem Hills who got eliminated from their chance to compete for a playoff chance because they were unlucky enough to play Timpview later in the season.

    Then there is Herriman who by winning their region gets to play East, who let's face it might still be the best team in the state.

    Then there is Box Elder who instead of playing Orem, a proven inferior team to TImpview, now gets to play Timpview.

    Is there no wonder people have lost faith in the UHSAA as legitimate organization to protect the integrity of high school athletics.

    What do East and get Timpview get as result of breaking the rules, a slap on the wrist while four other schools become collateral damage with two losing their right or chance to compete in the tournament so East's could be restored.

    Give me a break, what a joke!

  • 123UTAH Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 7:39 p.m.

    FAIR????? Cheating and getting away with it is NOT fair!

  • xyloguy SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 7:02 p.m.

    This is unfair to Timpview. You play an ineligible kid in a game, you forfeit that game! Leave it to the UHSAA to not uphold their own rules...

  • Paul H West Valley, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 6:08 p.m.

    In an attempt to save face, UHSAA backs down on it's unreasonable suspension of East High from the playoff's but slaps the coach with an equally unreasonable suspension and a large fine that will, no doubt, be borne by Taxpayers.

    Why can't people just admit it when they are WRONG and reverse their decision instead of trying to justify their stupidity?

  • markymark HERRIMAN, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 6:04 p.m.

    What a Joke! Im happy to see that the kids get to play, it wasn't there fault. The Coach should be out for all of this year and next year. I have friends that are high school coaches in the valley and when I have talked to them about the situation they and me put it all on the coach. He knows the rules and he played the players. When they have a transfer player come in they have them turn in all the paper work to the UHSAA, then when the player says he is cleared the coach calls the UHSAA and verifies that they are good. 4 coaches in the valley told me the same thing. It was nice of the AD to try to take the blame and save the season. THE COACH CHEATED and he knew it!

  • aunt lucy Looneyville, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 6:02 p.m.

    By dropping them to fourth you just punished another team that deserved a much easier draw for a first game. I would be way upset if I placed first expecting a good draw and then a top seated team that should be disqualified for cheating gets dropped down to face us in the first round. If the adults were to blame then the UHSAA should have left the seeds alone and not punished anymore innocent kids.

  • jbkhbrmz Saint George, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 6:00 p.m.

    On the one hand I'm glad that the innocent players on East's team will get a chance to play in the playoffs, but how is it fair to let them keep victories over other teams when they used ineligible players? Four good players can make a difference.

  • Pac 12 Fever Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 5:47 p.m.

    Why did Timpview have to forfeit when East didn't?

    That's a joke. Then they just plug em in the playoffs as a 4th seed East?

    Take out the crying and emotion out....

    Someone explain to me factually how Easts decision is overturned and Timpviews isn't?

    It's factual. Both punished or both acquitted. (Obviously the Timpview principal doesn't care and didn't fight for his team like the East principal) but besides that....explain please.

  • Pusuit_of_Knowledge SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 5:29 p.m.

    How is it fair to penalize Logan and Herriman due to the failings of East and Timpview? Logan and Herriman played a great season and should have easier first-round match-ups.

  • Pirate Magna, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 5:07 p.m.

    Ironic that Matich's first comment to the press is, "of course it's fair, because now my boys get to play"! All Cyprus did was play by the rules, with players from Magna, get told you're out, you're in, no wait now you're back out again, sorry for making you think the rules were for everyone, we forgot, you're not ranked high enough.

    @IRS, spoken like a TRUE IRS agent, hey if you don't get convicted, your totally innocent!

    The problem here isn't East's AD or Coach, or Cyprus and the handful of others that play with their own kids, the real problem is the UHSAA not policing the recruiting that requires the bogus paperwork to be filed in the first place. Hats off for now to Cottonwood, Herriman, Timpview, Skyline, Bingham and the rest for properly filing the phony paperwork properly, it makes it much easier for the UHSAA to look the other way when you fake it properly.

  • 123UTAH Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 5:01 p.m.

    Quit crying! You got what you wanted! The UHSAA made a big mistake!

  • Pugsley Orem, Utah
    Oct. 19, 2012 4:50 p.m.

    Shocked! A terrible situation is now made MUCH worse. This is a terrible precedence that will create havoc for years to come. No one wanted to see East not play but ADULTS understood why they couldn't. UHSAA made up rules as they went...everyday depended on who cried the hardest. Now it is Herriman's turn to file a complaint. Herriman got robbed if they have to play East in first game. Herriman worked hard to earn a #1 seed which has the HUGE reward of playing a #4 seed in the first game. Who cares if the head coach has to sit out a few games...their job is mostly over when the game starts and the assistants take over.

  • AZ Blue & Red Gilbert, AZ
    Oct. 19, 2012 4:42 p.m.

    Sounds fair from what I can see and from what little I know. Best is that the kids get to play. They did not not make the mistake. So looks like someone is looking out for the boys and not just the issue.

  • IRS Agent PROVO, UT
    Oct. 19, 2012 4:41 p.m.

    It looks to me like the right people are going to be punished, and not the kids who did nothing wrong. Afterall, it is about the kids, right? Or is this somehow offensive to us older folks who have nothing to do with the games, and can't get beyond our "glory days" when we were in high school.

    For those other schools that are upset that East is back in the playoffs, can you really call yourselves the best, if East isn't allowed to compete? If the ineligible players can't play in the playoffs, then if you truly are a better team, you shouldn't have any trouble beating them (without all those amazing players they used to get to the playoffs). Right?