@pragmatistferlife:"I'm sure I'm missing something
here, but I really don't understand the furor over calling the attack a
terrorist attack."The answer is quite simple...Obama
thinks he has the terrorists on the run after the death of Osama. To
acknowledge the Libya attack as a 'terrorist' attack would put a crimp
in his assertion.Or, it could be that he's not willing to call
attacks perpetrated by radical Muslims 'terrorist' since much of his
ancestry are Muslim.Or both."... even if the the
security in Benghazi was double, according to the experts it wouldn't have
prevented the attacks or deaths."Perhaps, but there would be
several attackers dispatched to claim their 72 virgins.
jsf..oil production is actually up 10% on federal lands in the last three years.
It went down 14%..the number Romney used.. in 2010 because gulf offshore
drilling was halted. That single year is the only time it went down. I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I really don't
understand the furor over calling the attack a terrorist attack. I get the
security issue..however..read the transcripts and the following comes out. 1)
the increased security requests were primarily for the embassy in tripoli, and
they were for marines that are stationed at an embassy (tripoli, not bengazi).
2) even if the the security in bengazi was double, according to the experts it
wouldn't have prevented the attacks or deaths. So whailing and gnashing
your teeth about what it was called for two weeks is pure politclisation of a
tragedy and it is disgusting.
Yeah, thanks, love life, I did check on it, and thanks for providing that quote
jsf. As you can see nowhere did she say what was claimed:"He claimed that he stated the next day he announced the Benghazi attack
was an act of terror. When Candy Crowley stated she made a mistake in saying it
was,""The debate was clearly stacked against Romney. Heck,
The moderator who intervened on behalf of Obama lied (something she later that
night admitted to and apologized for) to protect her guy. "You
guys want to try again? I'll keep waiting.
Happy Valley Heretic,Lets give choice to those who pay into
insurance.Do you leave money laying around so someone can have a
choice to steal or not? Let people pay for their choices. It's
the American way.
The most disappointing moment in the debate was when Romney was responding to
the moderator's question regarding how "the math doesn't add
up," she wouldn't let him finish his explanation of how "of course
they add up."I am no economist, but it seems obvious to me the
math is in Romney's favor. Obama wants to help people earning less than
$250,000 per year; Romney says the same about those earning less than $200,000.
Romney wants to get more people working again at higher paying jobs. It should
be obvious if more people are earning higher pay, with a ceiling on deductions,
the actual tax revenue will increase. Obama wants more governmental
regulations; those things cost taxpayers more money. There was talk about
Romneycare equaling Obamacare. That is readily, demonstrably false. I tried to
access the ACA online but only got the first 1048 pages. I looked at the
Massachusetts Commonwealth health care plan MassACT which was less than 100
pages, much of which Romney had vetoed but which was overturned in the
legislature. The two care plans clearly don't equal one another.
worf:"Free contraceptives? What an insult! Obama has a low regard of
American women."I know, especially since those little blue pills
are covered by insurance or "FREE" as you spin it.Giving women a
choice is a bad thing. Giving Religion control over women's health is a
right though?American women want men like Mitt and yourself to decide for
Free contraceptives? What an insult!Obama has a low regard of
@Hutterite:"President Obama won."The biggest
liar won.@Salsa Libre:"Romney adopted the same
tactic as he did in the previous debate match-up, but he was not nearly as
successful this time."Obama has Candy Crawley to help him... He
needed it. It was two against one in part of the debate."Perhaps it was having a moderator who would not let him dominate the
venue as if he were the CEO addressing the executives at Bain Capital."The moderator is an Obama supporter... She interjected herself into the
debate... on Obama's side (terror comment in the Rose Garden). Is she
running for president? She certainly got into the debate."...
particularly women's equality in the workplace..."Women
already have equality in the workplace. And if they had the same time on the
job as men, they'd have the same pay. But they don't. Many women
take time out for pregnancies and to raise families. This takes them out off
the job. And pay in some major, is based on time on the job."Obama Is Back!"Yes, and we can thank the moderator, Candy
Ying Fah get some reliable news sources. Yes like Chuck Todd, last night said
Obama stuck around for nearly 45 minutes, Mitt left shortly after, therefore we
can see Obama clearly won the debate.Is that good news reporting we
can count on?
worf Mcallen, TX Turn off Fox News and get some reliable
"Also the opening on the auto bailout: "our positions are the same, I
would have let them go bankrupt just as he did!"Chapter 11
bankruptcy is a restructuring of debt. The auto bailout started by
"Bush", claimed by Obama, was a debt restructuring eliminating bond
holders with out due process, and a cash infusion to cover the union employees
to protect their contracts. Actual court administered bankruptcy could have
required renegotiated contracts and union pension obligations. What really
needs to be done is "to go there". Lets really lay out all the facts,
not just hand picked. About the pension, Obama didn't want to
discuss, Romney said his investments are in a blind trust, it means he
doesn't decide on the investments. Obama's pension is also invested
in Chinese companies. Obama was peddling hard away from responding to that fact.
JoeBlowYes oil production is up, on private land. Obama removed 48% of
leases from the oil companies. Obama would not answer the request by Romney to
tell how many leases he canceled. Oil production on federal reserves is down
16%. Mark from the CNNPress room site."CANDY CROWLEY,
debate moderator, after the debate: You know, again, I heard the
president's speech at the time. I sort of reread a lot of stuff about Libya
because I knew we'd probably get a Libya question, so I kind of wanted to
be up on it. So we knew that the president had said, you know, 'these acts
of terror won't stand,' or whatever the whole quote was.I
think actually, you know, because right after that, I did turn to Romney and
said you were totally correct but they spent two weeks telling us that this was
about a tape and that there was this riot outside of the Benghazi consulate,
which there wasn't. So he was right in the main, I just think that he
picked the wrong word."
When you use fact your being mean joeblow. When asked the difference
between himself and bush, romney spent his 2 minutes saying it is a different
time (4 years later) and GW was a different person. He didn't say their
policies were any different. Or when asked about his immigration policy and he
described the dream act (without calling it that) as a good idea, only to be
called on how he promised to repeal it.Mitt, while chiding Obama
about his promises said "on Day One" he will accomplish no fewer than 15
tasks on his first day in office.Car salesman comes to mind (no
offense to car salesmen)
Several points need be made here: A change in format is needed to allow fact
checking during the debate otherwise there is no downside to both candidates
telling their personally favorable version regardless of the truth. This is the
era of "google" and everyone save those attending the debate can find
facts as the debate continues. This would (and should) be the debate version of
instant replay as used in the NFL. Also, it would be good to have a meter to
track how much time each candidates have spoken. If at the end one has had more
time, the other should get the difference in their closing statement. I can't believe that the same Romney who was so deft in the first debate
could give so many openings to the President this time. What was he thinking to
be bringing up his pension??? "You have Chinese investments and some in the
Caymans too!" Wow, that reasoning will will a lot of votes. Also the
opening on the auto bailout: "our positions are the same, I would have let
them go bankrupt just as he did!" Really, want to go there? Why?
Mark,Not sure where you've been. Crowley did take it back, almost
immediately following the debate: "Romney was 'right in the main'
on Benghazi, but 'picked the wrong word'" but she hasn't
apologized (that I've seen, at least). It's not hard to find-do a
search.The news following the debate seems to be how the media is
biased towards Obama-which is clear and evident. Besides Crowley's
incorrect fact-check, she interrupted Romney 28 times vs. Obama 9 times. Obama
was given 10% more speaking time than Romney, in spite of her claims that they
were keeping track and Romney would get equal time. And
Crowley's little fact-checking gimmick? Now the first couple of weeks
following the Benghazi attack are front and center again, as everyone knows it
took two weeks for Obama to call it a terrorist attack. Not sure why
anyone thinks Obama won when he has to hide behind the moderator.
Clinton,You write1. Obama claimed that Romney said
somebody like him should pay a lower tax rate than a nurse or bus driver.
Transcripts show this is not true."The facts are that Romney
does pay a lower tax rate than many, including nurses and bus drivers. This is
true whether or not Romney said it. You write2. Obama claimed
he cut taxes for the middle class and for small businesses, but that isn't
true. Too complicated for me, however, income taxes are at a 60+
year low. They are significantly lower than they were under Reagan.You Write3. Obama's claim that oil production is up in America is
false. Romney's accusation was correct.Crude oil production in
the US. (Thousand Barrels per Day)Crude oil production IS up since
Obama took office.Year Thousand BBL per day2002
5,745.552003 5,680.702004 5,418.852005 5,178.382006 5,102.082007 5,064.252008 4,950.322009
5,360.542010 5,474.352011 5,672.56
@JWBPresident Obama has more integrity in a toenail than there is in the
entire Romeny/Ryan camp.
@Hutterite:I don't see how, considering the dismal failure of
the last four years in gas prices, the economy, our treatment of Israel,
apologizing all over the place, high unemployment rates, etc., Obama could
possibly "win" anything. The only way Obama could win would be if
Americans have a short-term memory disorder or are completely asleep.Even if you consider last night's performance in a vacuum, how can you
say Obama won the debate with so many glaring inaccuracies in what he said?1. Obama claimed that Romney said somebody like him should pay a lower
tax rate than a nurse or bus driver. Transcripts show this is not true.2. Obama claimed he cut taxes for the middle class and for small
businesses, but that isn't true. He did offer a temporary "tax
holiday" on the payroll tax, but has raised taxes on the middle class
permanently with "Obamacare," for instance.3. Obama's
claim that oil production is up in America is false. Romney's accusation
was correct.Last nights debate couldn't be "won" by
either candidate because they didn't actually debate anything. They just
strutted around insulting each other.
Mitt Romney did not answer the questions. His response most of the time was
about his lame 5 point program and the millions of Americans unemployed.Where are all the jobs created by the George W. Bush tax cut? How can
people forget the BIG part of the current deficit is the cost of 2 unfunded wars
started before Obama was elected?It may be true that 47 % of
Americans do not pay income tax...but they DO pay taxes on almost everything
such as telephone bills, gasoline, electricity, natural gas, etc.
One thing any student of politics and the American system gains from these
debates is that the moderators skew and choose those items that will benefit
their political agenda, which is not for conservatives. We have the News Media
that stretches the truth and students need to learn that. Students who are
undecided this late in the game have to learn to make decisions based on what
the media and not what they have learned by studying the issues and proposals,
whether it is a referendum or a person they are voting for. Debates
may help swing a little but Mitt Romney has been in 10 times more debates this
season than our President has and had states know what his positions are. If
these are students of the political system, there are more ways than listening
to debates they should be involved in. Even though media sources provide some
information alot of them are biased toward only one opinion, liberal.
Conservative sources can have a similar bias but a person has to study to know.
If people have ever lived in a foreign country, they definitely know we have the
best process. We need good students of integrity.
Mitt Romney's implication is that if he had been president from January
2009 to the present, we would be further ahead in recovering from the recession.
We have never had a recession like the one that began at the end of G. W.
Bush's term. No president in American history has been where Barack Obama
has been over the past almost-four years. There is absolutely no way to know if
Romney, given the exact same conditions, could have done better. What people
perceive as Romney's precision in outlining his positions is actually his
use of statistics,whether those statistics are accurate or not. Statistics about
the last four years don't translate to a plan or explain the math behind
cutting taxes across the board and reducing the deficit. Promises do not equal
performance. Romney is also a bull in a china closet when he discusses foreign
relations. I don't believe that he would "push the button" -- I
don't see him as a warmonger -- but I do think his lack of on-the-spot tact
and diplomacy could bring our international image back to where it was when GWB
Mrs. Clinton has done some good as Secretary of State and as the First Lady of
the United States of America but this President made her lost all of that on the
stage last night. Who else will he sacrifice if he gets elected for
another four years of Obamapolitics. We don't live in Chicago that is safe
because they don't have AK-47s on their streets, only pistols. He doesn't ever discuss his successes with honesty either. So how can we
trust him in other things he talks about. He benefitted as a kid from the
debate last night that our government helped him through his life to become a
millionaire. He only talks as Governor Romney is the only one that is a
millionaire. When the President brings up some of his things against Romney it
opened the door for Romney to throw the same topic back as Obama has some of the
same issues. From looking at the President's face, it was sure
a lot different last night as he had some anger when he is the President of the
United States of America. This was only his opponent, not his enemy.
CNN is not necessarily a fair and balanced approach to news and the moderator
definitely tried to help the President with the Libya comments and steered the
mood to the wrong way. She did choose the question about Libya so that was good
that it finally not only made it to the full media but to the public that was
watching the debate last night. We have to give her credit for that.The media hasn't been wanting to push for the real answer. The people
that died, their families need the answer yesterday. When people are in those
types of jobs at Embassies and Consulates, they accept certain risks in their
jobs. These people were our servants attempting to make the world safer as we
have business and commerce around the world, not just on the Internet or TV.Our government failed these people and not to give them the truth and to
muddy the water by a anti-muslim video that was on the market in June 2012 is
abhoring for those in the intelligence and military worlds. They depend on
truth not people in the large chain of command who did not answer truthfully to
Red, you are in a nightmare? Wow. Maybe you should just wake up.
"He claimed that he stated the next day he announced the Benghazi attack was
an act of terror. When Candy Crowley stated she made a mistake in saying it
was,"Coleman, can you provide us with this quote from Crowley?
"The debate was clearly stacked against Romney. Heck, The
moderator who intervened on behalf of Obama lied (something she later that night
admitted to and apologized for) to protect her guy. "Raybies,
can you provide any evidence to back your claim? Can you provide the quote where
Candy Crowley admitted she lied and apologized for it? I'll
It doesn't matter what Obama says because we have 4 years of Evidence of
who he is....Vote Romney if you want out of this nightmare.
I can't declare a winner. It was pretty even. They both were in each others
face throughout the debate. Yes, it was style over substance and that's
been my complaint all throughout the campaign. The winner in last night's
match was sound bytes.
The media cannot be trusted to moderate these debates. The term
"professional journalist" has become an oxymoron. Their individual
arrogance and political agendas override any concern for a level playing field.
Enough has become too much already.
So what constitutes being a winner of these debates? Which person is a better
bully?I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm ready
for the first Wednesday of November to roll around so that this craziness can be
put behind us and we can move on as a nation in dealing with the issues that
Illegal firearms circulated among criminals on both sides of the U.S.-Mexico
border. People were killed!Why did Obama block investigations, and
not give an explanation during the debate?Many unanswered questions,
and lies from Obama, and some feel he won the debate?Where are the
expectations? Have Americans become desensitized?The loudness of a
bark, doesn't make a leader with character.
I thought Mitt Romney did a great job of answering the questions. The main
problem seems to be that the News Media does not listen, for the most part. The
queston of Guns to Mexico was never answered by Pres. OBama, Why???The Democrats and particularly President OBama had better hope that he is not
re elected next year. Think of the Mess they will have to explain then.
The basic issue for any President of the United States of America is the
integrity quotient. All of the rhetoric aside, our current President is lacking
in that type of quality. As a military person, I cannot believe that we would
have a President not tell the public the truth in this instance. If the
Ambassador and his military and security staff requested additional security for
themselves in a hostile environment and did not receive it, as the President
said last night, the responsibility falls on him. He is surrounded by advisors
and Czars that are to keep him out of trouble, and even the Secretary of State
who should know better from her 8 years as first lady and as a U.S. Senator from
New York. These students have a lot to learn. I was sitting on a
review at the University of Utah for a person getting a Masters' degree and
he showed a lack of integrity and the board put him off for at least another six
months due to that factor alone. We need to ensure students learn
character while in any Utah university as integrity is part of that and is what
Request from the Left and the Right.Please do not show ignorance by
insinuating that the president (R or D) is responsible for short term swings in
gas prices. It is merely a talking point that probably does have an affect on
the "low information" voter. But the reality is that the
swings in gas prices typically move with the global price of oil which is
affected by global supply and demand.Gas prices under George Bush
were as high as $4.12 in June 2008 and as low as $1.61 a mere 6 month later.
Did Bush cause gas to spike to $4.12? Of course not. Did he do something which
then brought prices down by over 60%? Of course not.Gas prices
dropped because there was a global economic slump which reduced demand.
That's it. That's the sole reason.So please, R and D,
stop cherry picking dates and prices to suit a narrative which has no basis in
reality. President DO NOT AFFECT short term gas prices.So, unless
you consider yourself a "low information" voter, please leave gas prices
out of presidential discussions.
Both were wrong about auto guns.They ARE legal with a class 3 license As far as the moderator goes, well I will remain quiet. The DS will just shoot
down my thoughts there.
When you start with an economy that is losing 9% GDP per quarter and 700,000
jobs a month and end up with an economy that has added 5 million new jobs and
has positive GDP growth for nearly three years.."needs more time" is in
fact an answer. Especially within the contex of the world economy where much
of Europe has slipped back into recession, and the supposed growth economies
have all lost GDP growth over the past two years (China, Brazil etc.). The
explanation needed is how does lowering individaul tax rates 20% create 12
milion new high paying jobs? Any comparisons to Regan are pure fantasy.
Lowering tax rates when marginal rates were 70% in a overly heated demand
situation don't have anything to do with current circmstances. Deficit= '09 (GWB) 1.4 trillion '10..1.3 trillion '11..1.3
trillio '12..1.1 trillion. Is that headed in the right direction?
I am not sure why the Deseret News bothers to interview students from the
University of Utah what they thought of the debate. These are children with
little experience in politics based upon their answers. That aside, while it is
true that Barack Obama may have come out more aggressive in last night's
debate, there was very little substance in what he said. He mostly rattled off
his redistributive philosophy about the middle class having a fair shot. Mitt
Romney gave far more substance to what he would do as President while at the
same time fending off the misleading and false attacks Obama was throwing at
him. I doubt that many minds were changed. However, besides the sheer number of
prevarications made by Obama, he made a fatal mistake that will surely play
heavily on Monday's debate on foreign policy. He claimed that he stated the
next day he announced the Benghazi attack was an act of terror. When Candy
Crowley stated she made a mistake in saying it was, that opened the Obama team
to a major question regarding their veracity about this incident. That statement
may cost him the election.
Actually, too much of that from Romney.Obama had the goods last night.While I do not support Romney or any republican, especially here in
Utah,(you can't legislate morality in the absence of moral
legislators)I want to, but yet haven't heard anything from Romney
other than smoke screens, rudeness, lies and theory.No plan, no details,
no nothing.He doesn't have the maturity, tact, or experience to lead
Country mom, Romney has overseas accounts and most likely similiar investments
like the one you mentioned. You and many others hate Obama so much you are
literally blinded by it. Tune in Limbaugh and Hannity and I guarantee you will
hear Obama's name within five seconds. I am not voting for Obama, I just
don't hate the man like so many openly do. I can't help but question
the motivation. I honestly believe that for a vocal minority race and religion
are factors. Few if any will openly admit it is. I certainly never would if I
felt that way. Mitch McConnell openly admitted the day Obama took office it was
the republicans goal to destroy OBama's presidency. Republicans have
certainly done all within their power to demonize him. Listen to Hannity. If a
guest says anything positive about Obama Hannity becomes uncomfortable and does
his best to ignore it. I have been following politics my entire life and never
seen the country this bitterly partisan.
Romney is a salesman, not presidential material.He took a good gut shot
from the Pres last night.The next and last debate is strictly on
foreign policy...Excellent for the President, as Romney's only
clue about any foreign policy is that he has money hidden in offshore accounts
to avoid taxes.4 MORE YEARS!
What kind of 'students"? Seminary?
My questions:1- What specific policies does Obama have to get our
economy moving again? How does "leveling the playing field" make that
happen? I've heard it a gazillion times but don't see the
cause-effect. "Needs more time" isn't an answer.2- Which
candidate will work more effectively with the opposition party in Congress to
actually pass budgets and otherimportant legislation? I'd
love to hear Romney remind the debate audience how we got here RE the huge
deficit and gridlock...Obama passed 3 huge packages (2 stimulus, 1 Obamacare)
between $.7 and $1 trillion each without engaging the Republicans (which he
promised to do) in his first 2 years when he controlled both branches of
gov't. As a result, voters got fed up and voted in the Tea Party, creating
even worse gridlock. But let's not forget how we got here.
As a life long republican i found the debate to be a draw. Neither Obama or
Romney dealt any major blow to the other, Romney was better on Economy, Energy
and issues that the government should be involved in and Obama was better at
appealing to women, which cannot be overstated in its importance in this
election. On that point i want to know what is so hard about
getting contraceptives? is it really that hard to plan a family? My parents were
able to do it without government help. Why are we unable to do it now? why is
this even an issue? did they stop manufacturing condoms all of a sudden? The
Government should stay out of our bedrooms.
I wish Deseret News would stop their anecdotal reporting. The comments of these
students are entertaining but don't constitute news. How big was their
"overflow crowd" of students. Does it have any statistical
significance? The KSL survey of SEVEN undecided students certainly
doesn't.We ask the media to provide us with the truth, to rise above
the rhetoric.Instead we get more cute stories that are meaningless for the
voter. We can get that at the water cooler.
Comments like Salsa Libre's should replace Romney's name with
Obama's. Anyone that has been listening to the Hearings on Libya knows
Obama was not telling the truth; Anyone that has been listening to the Hearings
on Fast & Furious (the first one) knows Obama was involved (he refused to
accept a subpoena to appear. Anyone that has been paying attention for the last
four years knows Obama has stopped drilling; fracking; farming; religious
donations; Pulpit Freedom and has shown great disrespect for our men and women
in Service to this Country. Vote the Bible
The debate was clearly stacked against Romney. Heck, The moderator who
intervened on behalf of Obama lied (something she later that night admitted to
and apologized for) to protect her guy. Again the President got 4
more minutes of time to talk than Romney. And I'd be interested if the
students who claim they don't know enough specifics about Romney have ever
gone to his website to research his policies. There's actually quite a lot
of information out there, but this is a lie of the left to suggest that
Romney's has no specifics.
Ms. Crowley didn't disappoint. We knew she would do all she could to help
Mr. Obama. Its obvious from some of the comments here that even the Demos. knew
that would happen.Romney has demonstrated that he has the necessary
skill set to help solve our economic problems. He's experienced and he
obviously has the desire to serve the nation.Obama has had 4 yrs. He seems
to be able to give a good talk,(as long as no one fact checks him) unfortunately
he hasn't done a very good job of leading or uniting our nation.
I was truly shocked at how the moderator interupted the President to correct
him! A couple of times. She was protecting him from his own lies!I am
sickened by the continuation of Lies that keep coming from the Presidents mouth.
He has had 4 years as President. He was elected to a complete majority in the
Congress, House and Senate. What did they do with that? Chrush the middle
class!Those of us with a small business are struggling under a burden of
massive taxes and regulations. He did not even promise to lessen that burden. He
just kept telling us things will stay the same. 4 more years just like the last
4.Do you want 4 more years? Obama is not a leader, he is a golfer,
he has had 4 years of vacation and has become very wealthy in the proscess. He
has over seas accounts, investments in China, and hedge funds. He is a
Romney adopted the same tactic as he did in the previous debate match-up, but he
was not nearly as successful this time. Perhaps it was having a moderator who
would not let him dominate the venue as if he were the CEO addressing the
executives at Bain Capital. Romney's attempts to control the debate,
trying to have the final word in every instance in order to get his message
across was confronted by an opponent unwilling to yeild.The
pro-Romney people had decided the outcome of the debate long before it started.
Now they will proceed with their expected criticism of Barack Obama and, as the
sun will rise in the morning, find ways to disparage Candy Crowley for
"favoritism" and "incompetence". This tactic will certainly
find acceptance by the extremely partisan base, but to independent observers,
there will be little to like in Romney's performance.Both
candidates glossed-over significant issues, but Romney was particularly inept
with some very important issues, particularly women's equality in the
workplace and the math regarding his economic proposals. The spin doctors will
do their stuff, but the headlines are already reading: "Obama Is Back!"
Some unanswered questions from the debate:* how did Mexican cartels
obtain thousands of American guns?* we have pipelines long enough to
circle the globe. Where is it, and was it built in the past three and half
years?* did Obama pay the same percentage of income tax as the middle
class?* where is the increase of American oil drilling which Obama spoke
about?* how can a weak economy bring the price of gas down?* why
wasn't the deficit cut in half, and unemployment cut to 5.2 percent?Obama had a bigger bark, but gave no answers.
"...liked what he heard then from Romney, said he still hasn't heard
enough specifics to get behind a candidate."Do these college
students read, or just get their info from the T.V.? How, at this point, could
you possibly not have an inkling or an idea of where each candidate stands on
the issues? I understand that kids just in college are being
exposed to different political ideas for the first time. But seriously. It is
three weeks before the election. Do you really not know each candidate's
Students aside, President Obama won.