Romney v. Obama 2: feisty, toe-to-toe, and inconclusive

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  • Flying Finn Murray, UT
    Oct. 18, 2012 11:10 a.m.

    Like everything else President Obama does the second debate is a case of too little too late. The fatal damage was done during the first presidential debate when President Obama failed to take his opponent seriously.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 3:50 p.m.

    As a military person, when a person hedges as the President did and Hillary Clinton even admitting there was a problem. I could not trust this person, either one in protecting and providing protection for anyone. The recording and transcript of that didn't say that Libya was a terrorist attack. He is very selective in his words and didn't want to discuss that. Crowley did a lot of the talking for him and hedged herself. She is a liberal CNN communicator.

    I am glad people in Colorado enjoy the Deseret News and the articles that are written. We enlighten or attempt to enlighten others that live in the high mountains and may suffer the affects of hypoxia and other problems. The President had such a great debate there in the open air and with his performance record of the past 4 years.

    We are so fortunate to have him lead us down the path for 4 years and the media that strings him along as Miss Crowley did last night.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 17, 2012 3:11 p.m.


    Have you read the text of Obama's speech to the UN or are you just regurgitating what you hear/read from others?

    This whole Libya issue is naked political gamesmanship--started by Romney. First, the embassy in Cairo was attacked purportedly in response to the video. There were protests in other countries and the attack on the Libyan consulate (not embassy). Obama spoke broadly about these attacks. Time and again Obama and others (Ambassador Rice, for instance) cautioned there was uncertainty and an investigation about what transpired.

    So if Republicans want to say Obama was speaking broadly, not specifically, in the Rose Garden when he talked about "acts of terror" they should then apply the same measuring stick to other comments.

    Repuvlicans, ever on the hunt for a conspiracy when there is a Democratic president.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Oct. 17, 2012 2:44 p.m.


    "I'm sure this is not over – we likely will hear more about it at the next debate this coming Monday."


    It might not be over. I can see how the statement might have been a hypothetical but it can also be read as a definitive. But what stood out in last night's exchange was that Romeny was ready to pounce and Obama was ready for him. Romney was taken back by the turn. Next time they meet for the debate on foreign policy, I expect the Governor to be prepped.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Oct. 17, 2012 2:05 p.m.


    How I admire your stamina. Putting up a stiff upperlipped defense for last night is really hard work but you're no shirker.

  • UtahBruin Saratoga Springs, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 1:40 p.m.

    @ Lefties

    Do you blame Bush for the last four years or are you alright with what Bush did? Because last night you did a heck of a job defending Bush. Do you approve of Bush's tax cuts which I think I have heard you deamonize over and over again, yet you extended them and you say you want to extend them again. Now if you don't like them but extend them, don't they now become your tax cuts? You said you called it an act of terror in the Rose Garden the day after the Benghazi attacks. If you did, then why did you parade off into being the celebrity on all the radio and talk shows and say you didn't know? Why did you say in the UN Meetings otherwise? Why did you let Rice report otherwise on several different media outlets? And did you plan for Clinton to take the fall for you? Will you ever take responsibility for the last four years, which is it? Obama doesn't even know what side he is on. This guy is just rhetoric after rhetoric, that waffles back and forth on who to blame.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 17, 2012 1:28 p.m.

    Ah, come'on.

    We gotta lighten up on these Republicans. They aren't used to being challenged or having to listen to a different side of the story. When you watch Fox, listen to conservative radio and read DN all day, life is so simple, easy and comfortable.

    Notice the difference between liberals and conservatives. Liberals are self critical. They were at least able to acknowledge when their "guy" had a bad night. (Many)Republicans are just in denial that their guy didn't win the debate. Even Charles Krauthammer agreed Obama prevailed.

  • 79Ute Orange County, CA
    Oct. 17, 2012 12:53 p.m.


    Obama said "acts of terror" but never linked it to Benghazi. If he had, why would he have spent the next two weeks saying the cause of the murder of our ambassador was spontaneous demonstrations caused by the anit-Muslim video? UN Ambassador Rice went did the Sunday TV show circuit and gave the administration's line - "spontaneous demonstrations" not "acts of terror" - five different times in one day! So why would she do that if the administration had made the correct conclusion on day 1?

    The administration blew it, as Secretary Clinton admitted when she fell on her sword for the President yesterday.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 12:42 p.m.

    atl34 Is that why for days him and all his minions including him at the United Nations were blaming it on the video. Him again on the view with we don't have all the info.Contradiction? Me thinks you might be the idiot and I am sure a Obama Drone You know unmanned.

    Check it out Mr. Rocket Scientist

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 12:39 p.m.

    I'm a Romney supporter but last night I learned how badly Obama wants to keep his golf vacations via the White House.


    He refuses to talk about his first 4 yrs. He mostly talked about what he doesn't like about Romney.

    I think Obama wants us to just "trust him", but we already did that and it didn't work.

    I wish someone would clue me in though on WHY the Republican party agrees to have the moderators be Obama cheerleaders?

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Oct. 17, 2012 12:18 p.m.

    "He [Obama} and his lifeline the moderator both lied about the Rose Garden Comment."


    We just can't trust those liberal news media types, can we? Gotta keep our eye on them every minute cuz we never know what kind of sneaky no good they'll be up to next.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 12:18 p.m.

    "He made a general reference to terrorism but he did not say that Bengazi was an act of terror. "

    Only a total and complete idiot, or partisan political hack for the Republican party would claim that a statement about not letting acts of terror stand in our way in a speech about attacks on our embassies/consulates... is not a clearly implied statement that the attack was an act of terror.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 11:50 a.m.

    Obama won. It was nice to see.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 11:41 a.m.

    Do you find it curious that the Moderator/lifeline had the Rose Garden Transcript ready the second Obama called for it.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 11:38 a.m.

    @ old man Obama got in three more minutes that Romney. Get your facts straight.

    If arrogance and lying gets points Obama clearly won. He and his lifeline the moderator both lied about the Rose Garden Comment. As a matter of fact she has walked that back.He made a general reference to terrorism but he did not say that Bengazi was an act of terror. His whole group including him for days blamed the video. Come on drones get real.

    Again what we saw was Marxism vs Capitalism.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 11:05 a.m.


    “When you give conservatives bad news in your polls, they want to kill you,” he said. “When you give liberals bad news in your polls, they want to kill themselves.”

    Hah, so true.

    "I am glad the debate had the Libya question posed so that will be part of the foreign policy or lack of foreign policy from this President."

    Me too, because Obama knocked it out of the park on that one.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 11:02 a.m.

    Inconclusive = Obama won every single post-debate poll.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Oct. 17, 2012 10:42 a.m.

    Out here where LDS are few, folks in a bishopric often use the terms pastor or associate pastor to quickly explain their role. It is easily understandable shorthand and the definition includes those who do so not as a full time or paid vocation.

    Bishop is a term with a much different meaning in many denominations. It would have muddied rather than clarified.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Oct. 17, 2012 10:17 a.m.


    "I am glad the debate had the Libya question posed so that will be part of the foreign policy or lack of foreign policy from this President."


    I don't know what you have to be glad about. Romney was licking his chops when Obama seemed to have blundered into a trap, then suddenly felt the steel jaws close on his own foot upon learning that Obama had indeed referred to the attack as a terrorist attack the day after. Romney thought Libya was his ace to play. It turned into a misfire and he was visibly rattled when he saw he had not done his homework.

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 10:15 a.m.


    "And it wasn't Mitt Romney."

    The problem Romney has, is... Obama's the better liar. Plus, Romney had to debate not only Obama but the moderator, Candy Crawley as well. Is she running for president?

  • suess Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 10:09 a.m.

    I noticed Obama was campaigning like he was newly running for office. I didn't hear him say "we did this and it worked" or "we are working on this and need to continue". Instead I heard "we have to ..........." like it's a new concept. Never did I hear him say what his presidency has done in the past 4 years -- other than created 5 million jobs -- really? How many were lost? Had to be quite a few with record high unemployment. How many of those jobs were government , not private sector jobs? He touted Obamacare and how good it would be for economy. I've talked to several friends who are in private sector employment who have been told there would be cutbacks to their work hours because they couldn't afford to pay for Obamacare. They weren't told they would lose their jobs, just have hours cut back -- so not only less pay, but now having to find their own insurance and pay out of pocket for it. My daughter would be considered poverty level and she's sick about having no insurance because her work won't offer it as she's parttime student.

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 10:06 a.m.

    OBama did much better....except for the prevaricating. But, if he gives that up he'll have little to brag about.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 17, 2012 9:53 a.m.

    "I was talking with an old friend who is with one of the nonpartisan polling outfits (and who also happens to be a very good and fair-minded pollster). We were discussing the large shifts in some of the polls on the presidential election and the feedback he receives whenever he puts out new numbers that make one side or the other unhappy. He offered an observation so priceless that it needs to be widely shared.

    “When you give conservatives bad news in your polls, they want to kill you,” he said. “When you give liberals bad news in your polls, they want to kill themselves.”

    I am protecting his identity because I don’t want him to get any additional phone calls. I would only add: Buck up, liberals!"

    (E.J. Dionne Jr., journalist and columnist for the Washinton Post)

  • athought Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 9:51 a.m.

    FT - I already see a candidate I don't like or respect in the form of Obama. I don't think either of them "looked good", but I didn't really hear one question answered by Obama. Both skirted around issues, but not answering questions -- last one did it for me when the question was about how they were percieved and how that is different from who they really are. Romney did answer it, but Obama only went on the attack against Romney -- didn't say a thing about himself. And I can see why Romney used the word "pastor". If he had said bishop and stake president, that would start the Mormon thing all over again. We're not voting for a religion -- I could care less. I'm surprised Clinton's responsibility wasn't jumped on. If she is that inept at her job, why hasn't she resigned -- case of misdirected blame before the election? Obama said he was Commander in Chief -- he knew about the request for extra security -- give me a break. I've said in the past few elections vote for the lesser of two evils -- in my book the choice is clear.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 9:44 a.m.

    I am glad the debate had the Libya question posed so that will be part of the foreign policy or lack of foreign policy from this President.

    You have to have diplomacy at the highest side and this President has Mrs. Clinton be his messenger of bad tidings. He likes to be glitzy and his time killing Bin Laden was not his forte since it was a military operation and he doesn't really like the military and now we see the State Department in a hostile country either.

    Being a President for him is riding around in his 747 everyday, almost, and taking nice vacations that cost our economy $200M a day to provide support people, equipment, aircraft and a carrier fleet. He knows how to spend money and attacks those that make it for our economy. He supports the fight of those that have not made money to those that have made money. He played that card several times last night.

    He can't show that performance is what he should be judged on. He avoided that topic more than once, also.

    He was tactical and strategic in bringing up the 47% when Mitt could not rebut it.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 9:38 a.m.

    The President supposedly had 2800 pages in his debate brief book. That is a lot of information and Mitt Romney would have had a similar type of briefing process. That is a lot of information to spew out. If they got 70 percent, hopefully, they could have passed their test.

    However, even though they couldn't take their notes with them, I will agree that the professor, Candy Crowley helped crib for the President, a time or two. She didn't give that type of advantage to Mitt Romney and sort of told him that he was wrong a time or two, also.

    This President doesn't know reality and has a hard time answering a question directly, whether it was asked by one of the supposedly undecideds or from Mitt Romney.

    You could see some evidence that the President despises his opponent and his principles. The President even showed some of Joe Biden's smiles last night but the cameras didn't use the split viewing as with the VP debate so it was harder to see.

    Honesty is the best policy and the President doesn't have any real policies except shooting from the hip without advisors close.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 17, 2012 9:32 a.m.


    Good points.

    Republicans are reality challenged and it isn't good for their party or the country.

    Romney kept saying he knows how to get the economy moving but didn't say how. He talks about the $5 trillion in tax cuts, but doesn't say how he's going to make them revenue neutral. He's going to give himself a $674,000 tax cut when he repeals the AMT, and is determined to keep the special carried interest loophole that enabled him to amass his great fortune.

    Even if one believes in the Laffer curve, at some point, taxes can become too low and not generate enough revenue. But maybe that's the Republican goal.

  • Itsme2 SLC, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 8:45 a.m.

    It is total liberal media bias. Obama lied through his teeth (and the liberal moderator joined in) about Libya - oh, and just about every other topic brought up last night. And the liberal pundits are saying that he won the debate! What a joke! Just because he was more aggressive doesn't mean he won! I don't care whether he can debate lies! I care that his record is beyond horrible. He may be running for reelection, but he certainly can't run from his record!

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 8:12 a.m.

    It was infuriating to watch both candidates -- and most frequently Romney -- completely ignore the time limits without being shut down by the moderator.

    Several times, when the moderator tried to do her job, Romney tried to bulldoze her.

    Maybe next time, the timers should be shown on screen for all to see with a loud air horn to blast when time is up.

  • Jonathan Eddy Payson, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 7:41 a.m.

    @ xert

    1. Disagree
    2. Disagree
    3. Disagree
    4. Disagree
    5. Disagree
    6. Disagree
    7, Disagree
    8. Second term? If a president does a bad job (Google Jimmy Carter), one term is plenty.

  • xert Santa Monica, CA
    Oct. 17, 2012 7:04 a.m.

    Oh, it was conclusive all right. My conclusion was that the President showed up and took back this race. This is one of the biggest differences between Democrats and Republicans. When they debated two weeks ago and (in my opinion) Mr. Romney won the debate, Democrats were the first to admit it and demand that their President show up and fight in the second debate. He did so. He floored Mr. Romney on a couple of occasions (Rose Garden and 47%). He made Mr. Romney look petulant and like a spoiled rich kid who is used to getting his own way. Still--Republicans, from the safety of their bubbles are trying to claim that he won the debate. Laughable, a bit sad and a major reason our nation will still be in a lot of trouble even after President Obamas second term begins.

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 5:31 a.m.

    One clueless and one with ideas and experience. Glglad mitt. Was there. O has to go

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 5:14 a.m.

    to mant people bishop is a lifetime, celebate compensated job

  • Ali'ikai 'A'amakualenalena Provo, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 12:59 a.m.

    This article was written by a DesNews staff writer, right? And the headline said what? "Inconclusive?" What an odd choice of words. But then this is the DesNews. The DesNews managing editor much be doing his best to maintain some semblance of Romney momentum regardless of the story. This is simple bias, but considering that the DesNews serves a niche market of conservatives in Utah, it will be seen as an accurate portrayal of events.

    The major national newspapers appear to have an entirely different take on the debate last night. Although many do not like the need to declare a winner and a loser in a debate (whatever that means), the second presidential debate was not "inconclusive" to most independent viewers.

    Fox News ran a piece with Frank Luntz interviewing a focus group of older, white folk claiming to be "independent" where all but two people were very much in favor of the Republican candidate at the end. This is informative since Luntz is a Republican strategist and his audience's "independence" is questionable since this was a Fox News event staged for the post-game show. Having any other result would have been adverse to the show.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 12:14 a.m.

    Pastor, minister or lay minister would all be acceptable terms. Nothing there to contend 86&90Ute...

  • Joe Moe Logan, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 12:11 a.m.

    I'm wondering, is the only way to keep within the agree rules of the debate to put each in a separate room with a microphone and camera, and when time is up, cut the feed and move on?

    Regarding the debate, this one will not move the needle like the last one. Not sure if it will or won't stall the bump Romney has had after the last debate, but in and of itself this debate won't move undecided voters.

  • Jonathan Eddy Payson, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 12:03 a.m.


    A Stake President, Bishop or other presiding leader in the Mormon church is considered a "pastor". People outside of the church are familiar with the term pastor, that's probably why Romney referred to his Stake Presidency as such.

  • 86&90UTE Holladay, UT
    Oct. 16, 2012 11:30 p.m.

    Ok, what the heck? Romney said he was a pastor for ten years. He was never a pastor, with the accompanying training. He was a bishop. He may have even been an awesome bishop. But use the word bishop. Why would he not???

  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 16, 2012 11:29 p.m.

    The only clear choice we have to save our country is to elect Mitt Romney President of the United States. Just because BHO was more aggressive tonight does not mean there was much substance. I thought Mitt held his own. I didn't like the moderator. She clearly favored the president. She actually backed one of his missteps. Unvelievable! When do we get some conservative moderators?

    I thought Mitt Romney was the clear winner of this debate because he has a plan to get this country out of this mess. It only gets messier with Obama.

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Oct. 16, 2012 11:25 p.m.

    Oh, please. Romney could have shown up in the wrong city and the DN still would have found a way to try to make him look good. When Republicans have to resort to nitpicking the definition of "acts of terror", it's clear who the winner was tonight.

    And it wasn't Mitt Romney.

  • Jonathan Eddy Payson, UT
    Oct. 16, 2012 11:20 p.m.

    It was fortunate for President Obama to have his campaign advisor Candy Crowley by his side.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Oct. 16, 2012 11:18 p.m.

    Mitt Romney may be the next President of the U.S. but tonight I think a lot of people saw a man they won't like or respect. He was disrectful and dishonest to name a few. And yes, the same could be said of our President. Hopefully, our Utah school districts give us the same opportunity to pull our children out of the class rooms when President Romne speaks to students as they offered when President Obama did. I certainly don't think he represents the strong values and morals that many of us are trying to instill in our children.