Mormonism: The last acceptable prejudice?

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  • moniker lewinsky Taylorsville, UT
    Oct. 1, 2012 4:58 p.m.

    There is often a difference between prejudiced and disagreement with policies. Particularly when those policies have a far reaching effect on those who are not within the membership of, in this case, the LDS church.
    The LDS church can (and has) participated in political activation that has resulted in a loss of rights for many people. While this is their apparent right, that does not mean that people will be left with a good feeling about things. It has definitely created an impression and a backlash. People can be left with bad feelings about policies that the LDS church has helped to create or with bad feelings about beliefs they find hurtful. A mother can be left with a bad feeling about having to miss her child's wedding and sometimes no amount of explaining of doctrines will change this. There are many other examples as well.
    I find that most people don't have a problem with religion itself, but they do have a problem with absence of separation that enables religious people to encroach (possibly with good intentions) on various liberties.
    As secular laws become more secular(particularly in Utah), attitudes will change. Until then, they won't.

  • RFLASH Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 25, 2012 2:08 p.m.

    I use to go next door and visit my neighbor who is an elderly LDS woman. Usually we talked about family or geneology because we both like it so much. I would try and help her with her yard. Nobody in the ward was doing it. The next day her yard was filled with people. I knew what was happening from past experience. They couldn't have the gay man over there! To make it short, they scared her. They put the pressure on and one day I knew. I have had that horrible feeling many times around LDS people. They put an end to our friendship. I know it isn't her fault. I will always try and it will always hurt. The prejudice we feel comes from people that we love and let me tell you, it is much more than a few comments here and there. truly, I care! You know what I get back in return? To most Mormons, that is insignificant! they would hear me say that and it would mean nothing to them. We all need to take a look at ourselves. Why do we hurt each other so much

  • RFLASH Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 25, 2012 10:25 a.m.

    The last acceptable prejudice? Try being gay in this state! I grew up Mormon. I understand a lot, but I never knew how much prejudice exists among them. I just didn't see it until I became an adult. Mormons have deep prejudices toward gay people. You think people accept anti- Mormon comments. People in our own legislature made hideous remarks about gay people that would make anybody cringe! Yet nobody said a word. They try and pass anti gay laws. Do pass anti Mormon laws? I can not help it if somebody has a belief that allows them to think such offensive things about me. I agree with the person who said that Mormons need to take some time and consider the point of view others may have. A lot of the anti Mormon comments come from being treated like an outsider. You don't have to give up your testimony to know an learn from others. Without trying to be harsh, many of you need to reach outside your comfort zone. It wouldn't kill you to do it.

  • zabivka Orem, UT
    Sept. 24, 2012 11:50 p.m.

    I think there are two problems at work here:

    1. Latter-day saints are very demanding, as far as how much they want people to to "get right" about their beliefs. It isn't enough to know about the First Vision, for example--you have to know the Church-approved fourth version of it, and any other version is "anti-Mormon". It isn't enough to know about polygamy, which was a core doctrine in the mid-1800's--you have to also know that it was banned near the end of the 19th century, and that Mormons today feel no kinship with the polygamist offshoots of their original religion. You know what I mean? With every doctrine, you need to understand the "counter-doctrine" that sprouted up later. That's a tall order for a curious investigator.

    2. Many latter-day saints can't even get their own doctrines straight. NBC's Mormon in America program illustrated that perfectly with the whole "caffeine segment." Everyone on the comment boards was roasting NBC for "getting it wrong," but it was that active Mormon woman who was propagating the misunderstanding. Again, a tall order for your average Joe.

  • KMCopeland West Point, MS
    Sept. 23, 2012 1:42 p.m.

    I've often had that precise thought, only instead of "Mormonism" being the last acceptable prejudice, I had "the American South" in that spot instead. But I think they both belong there. People who are far too enlighened to ever tell insulting jokes about this or that nationality, or religion, or make racial slurs on any kind, have no problem whatsoever saying nasty, insulting things about the South -- or about the Church. Where if you're a Mormon, it's usually some snide comment about polygamy and/or Joseph Smith, if you're a Southerner is's usually all about how nobody has indoor plumbing, teeth, or an education.

    We would all do well to remember that any and all prejudice & bigotry, even that which society finds completely acceptable (like that against both Mormonism and "Southernness," should find no quarter in our hearts, minds, AND in our speech.

  • Dennis Harwich, MA
    Sept. 23, 2012 6:32 a.m.'re taking liberties with my comment. A lot of people don't take criticism very well, Mormons do it worse than most. Read these articles.

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    Sept. 22, 2012 7:56 p.m.

    Sharrona: You are speaking mainly of the final judgement. We all go to one of two places after we die to await the resurrection. We have not as yet been judged of our life here on earth. You are mixing the two which is the problem with mainline Christianity. Alma spells it out quite well. Doctrine & Covenants 138 spells it out even better giving us a clear understanding of what happens when we die. That is why temple work is so important to give every man, woman and child the opportunity to return to the Father. Your's is completely and entirely a separatist father. One who loves just a few of his children. Again until you really truely understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ which you do not and most individuals don't you can't say it is wrong. The Lord has spelled out what IS HIS church on earth and it is The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints and none other.

  • bandersonfam ,
    Sept. 22, 2012 11:14 a.m.

    Though it is true that most Mormons don't understand their beliefs and teachings perfectly or live them perfectly; My observation is that most active Mormons understand and can speak of their beliefs and the teachings of their Church far better than most - not all - members of other churches.

  • Stay the Course Salt Lake City, utah
    Sept. 22, 2012 12:49 a.m.

    RAB even if you did wake up on the wrong I still like your comments I agreed with everyone of them

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 8:30 p.m.

    RE: RAB, Paradise where He said He would join the thief was NOT the heaven where God the Father resides. Wrong,
    The word "paradise" is found in the O.T.(Genesis 2:8 Septuagint) a garden(paradeisos,3857)in the east of Eden and three times in the N. T: Luke 23:43, Savior on the cross says to the thief, "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise"; 2 Corinthians 12:2-4,where Paul alludes to his vision of the third heaven and which is paradise; and Revelation 2:7,…” the righteous who partake of the tree of life in the midst of God's paradise.”

    @He had not yet ascended to His Father.
    That same day he appeared to his disciples(Luke 24:39). Sometime during the day he went to heaven to fulfill the High priest(sacrifice) type.

    And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to Destroy both soul and body in (gehenna) hell.(Mt 10:28) No second chance.

    ..his final doom is to endure a never ending torment.(Mosiah 2:39)

  • RAB Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 6:39 p.m.

    @ Claudio
    Yes, yes I did wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

    @ Sharrona
    Not sure what you are trying to say with all those scriptures, but if you are thinking there is any iota of contradiction with LDS doctrine, you are wasting your time. The LDS Church teaches that all people, good and bad, will return to the presence of Christ (God, the son) after mortal death. The place where we all will meet Christ has many names (Paradise and Abraham's bosom to name a few). The righteous will be pleased and joyous in his presence. The unrepentant rebellious however, will suffer the anguish and torment for their deeds in His presence until they repent.

    When Christ visited Mary after His death, he told her He had not yet ascended to His Father. We know therefore that this Paradise where He said He would join the thief was NOT the heaven where God the Father resides. Christ will eventually judge all of us. We will then all be resurrected and those who were able to repent will join Christ and be with The Father forever, in heaven. (Just like all those scriptures said)

  • BYU Papa Cedar Hills, ut
    Sept. 21, 2012 5:24 p.m.

    I found this article very interesting. I was surprised to find that the author was an athiest. It reminded me a little of Paul before King Agrippa. He said, Paul almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian. I feel the same way about Joseph Walker.

    Every thing in the Universee testifies of the Creator. Also, all the ancient prophets and the fruits of the church. Jesus said, By their fruits ye shall know them. Finally, God will answer the prayer of faith. Please let me know when you join the church. You think so clearly you deserve the blessings.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 5:11 p.m.

    RE: Serenity, I don't think that anyone could ever find a more true, a more fulfilling, more perfect religion?
    Alma 40:11 Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection--Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be “good or evil,” are taken home to that God who gave them life?

    ... depart and to be with Christ… (Phil. 1:23). When Lazarus died, his spirit “was carried away by the angels into Abraham’s bosom” (Lk. 16:22). For those who die in Christ, death is union with the Lord. Jesus informed the dying thief, “Today you shall be with me in paradise” (Lk. 23:43).
    At death, all who have lived in rebellion to God will enter a spirit state of pain, trouble, and sorrow (Psa. 116:3). It will be a realm of anguish, suffering, and torment (Mt. 22:13; 25:46; Mk. 9:48; Lk. 16:24; 2 Thes. 1:9; Rev. 20:10).

  • Serenity Manti, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 4:34 p.m.

    Mighty Mite: "Most mormons do not understand thier own beliefs and teachings; those who do put thier head in the sand to stay apart of the cutlure"

    Do you understand Mormon beliefs and teachings? If you did, you would not say the second part. Mormon teaching is available to anyone who wants to learn. The more you learn of it, the more you find out about God, the teachings of the Bible and everything falls into place. Why would anyone want to hide their heads in the sand over that? Me, personally, I would like to shout it from the rooftops and tell people about my wonderful religion, the truthfulness of the Gospel, the personal relationship we can have with the one whose Church this is: Jesus Christ. Why in the world would anyone be ashamed about that? I don't think that anyone could ever find a more true, a more fulfilling, more perfect religion.

  • Serenity Manti, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 4:33 p.m.

    Mighty Mite: "Most mormons do not understand thier own beliefs and teachings; those who do put thier head in the sand to stay apart of the cutlure"

    Do you understand Mormon beliefs and teachings? If you did, you would not say the second part. Mormon teaching is available to anyone who wants to learn. The more you learn of it, the more you find out about God, the teachings of the Bible and everything falls into place. Why would anyone want to hide their heads in the sand over that? Me, personally, I would like to shout it from the rooftops and tell people about my wonderful religion, the truthfulness of the Gospel, the personal relationship we can have with the one whose Church this is: Jesus Christ. Why in the world would anyone be ashamed about that? I don't think that anyone could ever find a more true, a more fulfilling, more perfect religion.

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 4:26 p.m.

    Southernmiss, welcome to Utah.

    There are two types of mormons, those from Utah and those not from Utah. You'd never know that the ones from outside Utah. They don't wear LDS on their sleeve. You can't help but know the ones from Utah. They tell you every day. 'Exaggeration? Yes, but it's true alot of the time.

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    Sept. 21, 2012 4:24 p.m.

    J-Tx - Very well said. I think that is one of the best ways to put into perspective that "mormon" doesn't classify all mormons into one group. Just like any other group there are good, bad, and everything in between. There are caring members, and there are judgemental members. There are honest members, there are dishonest members. Just like any other group, but the body of them is trying to do their best to do good.

  • Claudio Springville, Ut
    Sept. 21, 2012 1:17 p.m.

    Gee, RAB. Wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 12:01 p.m.

    To "Rynn" prejudiced LDS members are not just withing Utah. I know people who have stated that they will never more to Utah because of the "Utah Mormons", and they are members of the LDS church.

    There will be biases and prejudices until people grow up and realize that it is a waste of time.

  • RAB Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 11:59 a.m.

    @Noodlekaboodle and Schwa
    Atheism means "not belief in God". Therefore, atheism says nothing about YOUR beliefs--only your contention against other people's beliefs. You therefore should not be surprised when others feel compelled to defend themselves.

    @A Scientist and kishkumen
    You're not anti-Mormon, you merely accuse ALL Mormons of being uninformed, delusional, hypocrites ignorant of their history. Whatever. An extermination order (children NOT excluded) is a RATIONAL response to unverified claims of a few disgruntled apostates? Good one.

    I've read the Koran. I've read the history. Stating facts is not "justifying prejudice".

    @ owlmaster2
    So, some Mormons say and do stupid things and that justifies bigotry against them? Whatever.

    So, it isn't prejudice. It is just revenge for Mormons having the audacity not to share your beliefs? Whatever.

    Who said they feel victimized or hurt? Maybe Mormons would just appreciate not watching their beliefs being attacked on major mainstream news channels.

    I'd love to know what your point is. So you can cherry pick out-of-context century-old unverifiable quotes from church leaders whose comments bare little semblance to actual Mormon beliefs then or now. Good for you.

  • RAB Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 11:55 a.m.

    @Claudio, Palintram, Instereo, utahboni & JohnH
    News Flash: The article is NOT saying there are no other groups enduring bigotry. It is addressing the fact that attacks on Mormonism are the one prejudicial treatment still openly approved by many major mainstream media sources. Those who verbally attack atheists, gays, Jews, or Muslims are generally exposed as backwards extremists. You obviously never watched MSNBC or read the New York Times if you do not know which liberals are sniping at Mormons.

    Your insight into millions of Mormon minds is astounding. I wish I had the ability to know if other people understand their own beliefs and teachings.

    Quoting a deceiver, like the serpent, does not say anything about what aspect of the words were the deception. The serpent's ONLY goal was to hurt God, Adam and Eve. That goal was attained by falsely claiming that God's command was motivated merely by a desire for exclusive power. In reality, God commanded them not to eat the fruit because He loved them and the eating of it would introduce suffering into their lives.It was a command based on love, not desire for exclusive power.

  • harrylevan Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 11:02 a.m.

    Well of course it's acceptable. Nothing wrong with judging practices or beliefs (as opposed to skin color, gender or sexuality). But that isn't "pre"-judice. Mormons too frequently fail to understand the difference.

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    Sept. 21, 2012 9:28 a.m.


    Obviously the General Authorities live our gospel to a higher degree than we rank and file. Otherwise, WE would be GA's.

    We "neighborhood Mormons" do the best we can, and represent a cross section of your standard imperfect, struggling, under stress citizenry. That means some of us are bigoted. Some of us are racist. Some of us are elitist. Some Liberal. Some Republican. Some Libertarian.

    But don't give up on us, because we all possess the foundation to improve little by little, as we strive every day to more fully emulate the Savior.

  • JohnH Cedar City, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 9:21 a.m.

    Mormonism is NOT the last acceptable prejudice. It's also quite acceptable to be prejudiced against whites, Christians, straight males, and wealthy people.

  • Central Texan Buda, TX
    Sept. 21, 2012 9:18 a.m.

    But even Critchley gets it very wrong in many places in his article. The big error on women and the Church is mentioned in this article, but Critchley also wants everyone to believe that Mormons have a hidden agenda to bring back polygamy as soon as we get the political power to do so. The whole thrust of the article is really to make people think Mormons are strange. He even brings up Mitt Romney and a possible foreign policy brouhaha with Israel because of the Tenth Article of Faith where it talks about a new Jerusalem! I don't see why knowledgable Mormons are finding any reason to cite the Critchley article at all.

  • UtahDemocrat Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 9:00 a.m.

    I find it so funny that while these BYU philosophers take issue with the label of post-Christian, they only do so by taking out of context. Professor Critchley stated "Mormonism is properly and powerfully post-Christian, as Islam is post-Christian. Where Islam, which also has a prophet, claims the transcendence of God, Mormonism makes God radically immanent. Where Islam unifies all creatures under one mighty God to whom we must submit, Mormonism pluralizes divinity, making it an immanent, corporeal matter and making God a more fragile, hemmed-in and finite being. And obviously, both Islam and Mormonism have a complex relation to the practice of plural marriage.

    Yet unlike Islam, for whom Muhammad is the last prophet, Mormonism allows for continuing revelation."

    I acknowledge a general antipathy toward Mormonism; some warranted, much of it not. But in the Mormon spirit of seeking out the truth, I'd encourage Latter Day readers to read the source article before opining too much on their victim status. When Romney spoke of the 47%, did he mean you?

  • ClarkHippo Tooele, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 8:41 a.m.

    @Dennis 5:57

    You said - "The one thing the Church lacks is the ability to accept criticism."

    With all due respect, you've got to be kidding me.

    Ever since 1830, the LDS Church has been getting criticized from all sides. We've weathered attacks from the left and from the right, from Christian and atheist alike. Every General Conference, building dedication and Manti or Hill Cumorah pageant, the presence of those eager to attack the LDS Church through pamphlets, street signs and other means has become practically routine.

    In fact, if LDS people were to attend one of these events and no protestors showed up, we would wonder what was wrong.

    You seem to indicate the LDS Church is the only group of people who get their knickers in a twist when they hear something they don't like from a critic. Care for a rebuttal?

    The upcoming film "The Master" has been roundly attacked by the Church of Scientology, even though the film never mentions Scientology or L. Ron Hubbard. And that's only one example of how some in Scientology angrily deals with their critics or those who may misinterpret them.

  • Social Mod Fiscal Con West Jordan, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 8:10 a.m.

    The article makes no assersion that other religions or groups aren't still discriminated against. Just that with every other group and religion, it is not acceptable to do so (society at minimum will frown on it, and in some cases raging hysteria will ensue). On the other hand, it seems that society has no problems with prejudicial words or actions towards mormons.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 8:02 a.m.

    RE:Jared", Most Mormons do not understand their own beliefs and teachings; those who do put their head in the sand to stay apart. True, Mormons should be informed about their prophets prejudice:

    Can you make a Christian of a Jew? I tell you Nay, If a Jew comes into this church ,and the blood honestly professes to be a Saint, a follower of Christ, and if the blood of Judah is in his veins, he will apostatize.(JoD V. 2 p. 142)Brigham Young.

    I never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call it Scripture, Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon and it is a good as Scripture as they deserve deserve.(JoD v 13 p. 95 also see v. 13. P 264) Brigham Young

  • Claudio Springville, Ut
    Sept. 21, 2012 7:35 a.m.


    All the hate is coming from the left, who would never nominate a Mormon for president? That must be why they chose Harry Reid as Senate Majority Leader, nominated a couple to serve in the cabinet and sub-cabinet, and sent quite a few off as ambassadors.

    Of course, the common theme is that the Democrats didn't see the need to shout to the four corners that these people were Mormons...because they saw them as humans, not a religion. That sounds more like tolerance to me than the "hold your nose and blindly vote R" definition.

  • Southernmiss HATTIESBURG, MS
    Sept. 21, 2012 7:15 a.m.

    Well, I just moved here, to "Happy Valley" this week! I have never seen so many UNHAPPY, UNfriendly people in the course of a day in my life! I am a mormon, and active, but when I tell people..clerks in stores, restaurants, etc., that we have moved here from the south they automatically assume we are not LDS, and they are less than friendly. Now, I can handle problem! I am use to living in an area where I, and my family are by far the minority. We are use to living in the mission field. But what does this say about the members here?!

    In the south, at least where I am from, we speak to the people who are in line at the store by us! We smile at people as we walk by them. The store clerks are friendly..for the most part. We wave as we pass another car on the street. We wave as we pass people who are walking down the street! I have been here for 4 days and not one person has waved back, spoken back when I have said hello, or even acknowledged that I am breathing.

  • utahboni Ogden, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 6:59 a.m.

    Try living as a Pagan in Utah for a couple of months and then get back with me. We'll do lunch.

  • Dennis Harwich, MA
    Sept. 21, 2012 5:57 a.m.

    @'re right. Most Mormons don't have a clue what they believe. Because the populace of the Church hears things they want to hear they take the liberty to decide what doctrine really is. Case in point, read this weeks story on Jesus had a wife here in the Deseret News. The doctrinal issues expounded put me on the floor.
    The one thing the Church lacks is the ability to accept criticism. Nobody is telling you how to live your lives, just wondering why. When 17 different answers come from one simple question it's not hard to see where a bit of criticism might be returned. Just saying....

  • Rynn Las Vegas, NV
    Sept. 21, 2012 5:29 a.m.

    Re: Noodlekaboodle

    True. I think it goes both ways. A family friend has a child whose father wanted the child to come live with him in another state (outside of Utah). The child, who is 10, was interested in the idea of living with his father but then said: "I don't think I could live in (said state) though. Because there aren't enough Mormons there."
    The child's mother has been quoted in the past as saying "There are no good people outside of Utah." so it's probably her influence.
    Not to say that all Mormons think this way, because they don't. But it's hard to feel sorry for someone that has a superiority complex.

  • Shelama SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 12:32 a.m.

    We should wear it with honor as befitting those who hold and declare the truth. Jesus knew us and saw us. Seen in us, once again, is the fulfillment of prophecy. It is the price we pay and we should be proud...

    "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake. Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake."

  • Mad Hatter Provo, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 12:19 a.m.

    No, there are a number of other religious organizations which are subjected to prejudical commentary deemed acceptable including Scientologists, Wiccans, and other religious minorities. Mormons just happen to be the flavor-of-the-day because of Mitt Romney. It all depends upon the group doing the discriminating. We've already seen the fundamentalist evangelicals do their thing to advance religious intolerance. If Romney fails in this election, the Mormon Church will pass back into being an afterthought in most people's minds except for those conservative religious zealots who have historically found the religious to be suspicious.

    As for prejudicial acceptability, any religious bigotry has always been unacceptible to some and unacceptible to others. However, when politics gets involved, the so-called "unacceptibility factor" increases among the less enlightened. Even anti-Islam fever finds strong support by many in this country as evidenced by Sharia Law inflammatory speech and the likes of people like Terry Jones, the Florida pastor. So far, there have been no attempts to burn the Book of Mormon. Perhaps there is not the level of acceptance as there is for anti-Islamic or anti-Semitic behavior that pulses through the nation periodically.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 12:11 a.m.

    The disdain doesn't even have to be political but in this and last year's runup to the campaigns, it definitely was discussed more than in the past 50 years. In the 2008 and this years campaigns, it has been discussed more with Mitt Romney's Republican and Democratic circles. Why?

    Bias and prejudice is still out there. It is controlled by law in the workplace and in schools, which is also a workplace. However, tradition has kept it going in the LDS community from people who don't want to know the truth.

    If you want to know what members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe, read the Bible and Book of Mormon. There are truths in both those books that would inform people that the Church is a Christian Church. If it is of Christ, then it would have his name in the name of the Church. If it is a Christian Church, it would believe in the Bible, as some who are not Christian, also believe in parts of the Bible. However, the Book of Mormon is another testament of Christ. One would have to read it to know the truth.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 11:52 p.m.

    I believe the better name for the article should have been the last acceptable religious prejudice. Joseph Smith wasn't the first martyr for religion and he is not the last as many people around the world have been killed because of prejudice against their religion and ethnic religious background.

    If you are not to speak about religion and politics to keep family peace and neighborhood peace, then this year it has been some politics that is religious based, not too different than when John F. Kennedy ran for President in 1960. The town I lived in was a Christian Cooperative and Mormons are still not considered Christian in many of those people's eyes. That is a town of under 10,000. Our chapel wasn't even finished when someone came in and poured gas around the inside of the building and then lit it on fire. There was no real investigation into the fire and arson even though a member of the ward had seen a vehicle outside the chapel but didn't see anyone before she left after practicing on the organ for Sunday services.

    We haven't seen tar and feathers used much lately, good thing.

  • A1994 Centerville, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 11:11 p.m.

    There is disdain for Mormonism from both sides of the political spectrum. The difference is that the disdain on the right is rooted in ignorance. The disdain from the left is rooted in intolerance. When Mitt Romney was part of a field of 8 or 9 GOP candidates, so many of the same people posting here said he'd never win the nomination because the GOP is too intolerant. Well, he is the candidate and the base is extremely fired up about electing him. The hate is really coming from the left. (See Lawrence O'Donnell on MSNBC.) I know how hard it has been for the evangelicals to accept a Mormon candidate, but they did it. I don't think the left would ever dream of nominating a Mormon for President.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 10:06 p.m.

    Mormonism has all the elements people love to hate these days:
    Wealthy members (if they only knew how rare that is)
    Conservative political views
    Traditional family values
    A presidential candidate
    Strong faith

    But we were warned that as the world turns more evil, we will look more peculiar.

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    Sept. 20, 2012 8:49 p.m.

    @Esquire: "When the LDS culture comes to their defense instead of hiding out when religions are attacked, standing up for a principle that applies to all faiths, showing courage, then come back to us."

    I defend evangelicals, Catholics, Moslems all the time on this forum. The Deseret News editorial staff and the LDS church is regularly taking positions to support religious liberty and telling their members to stand up for the freedom of conscience. We had a discussion here a week ago about the requirements of the health care mandate and how they are a government restriction on freedom of conscience, so, we are coming back to you.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Sept. 20, 2012 8:19 p.m.

    Nah truth.... there is a lot of very thin skinned people claiming victim status here. All this persecution going on in the heart of Utah... who would have imagined. Out here in the Bible Belt, I almost never see it..... in fact I can't remember the last time I heard anything "anti". And yes, all our friends know are Mormons simply because my oldest has disappeared for two years.

    If you all are so victimized, I would love to see how someone has hurt you - personally.

    The idea that Mormons are picked upon more than Muslims is pretty much laughable.

  • Pa. Reader Harrisburg, PA
    Sept. 20, 2012 7:17 p.m.

    This is a silly article.
    I recall my fellow-Mormons raving over the Da Vinci Code books & films, which contain material that is highly offensive and can only be characterized as anti-Catholic.
    Also, framing the "last acceptable prejudice" question in political terms is simple posturing to score ideological points. Mormonism's detractors are found in both major political parties, in the ranks of the very religious and among atheists.
    The implication that all other prejudices are now unacceptable across the board is laughable and does a disservice to our brothers and sisters of other faith groups, ethnicities and nationalities who are often subjected to the same types of mischaracterizations and misrepresentations we Mormons battle.
    As a good Seventh Day Adventist friend said to me many years ago when I thanked him for befriending our missionaries, "We cults have to stick together!"

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 7:06 p.m.

    Of course it is okay to bash Mormons and the LDS Church.

    After all, the evil, rich, white, uncaring guy who wears funny underwear and is a REPUBLICAN is a Mormon, so they must all be weird, right?

    At least that is what we will hear from the mainstream media until at least the end of the election, or the end of his term if Romney wins.

    My personal experience with members of the LDS faith towards non-members has been 100% positive and respectful, and tolerant. Oh, that the news media and the left (but I repeat myself) would behave the same way.

  • Serenity Manti, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 7:02 p.m.

    @ Hutterite. No one is pretending it's prejudice. How many religions can say that in some colleges there is actually a course on why Mormonism is evil. How many people are told that unless they repent and change their religion they are sure to got to hell because they follow the devil and not God? How many people are subjugated to lies, half truths and out and out blatant dislike only because of their faith? How many people are out there whose religion gets ridiculed by a Broadway play, such as "The Book of Mormon" ? The examples you give are just one of the things I am talking about. You are annoyed because Mormons don't shop on Sunday, for instance. That's what they believe in and it irritates you. Why? Then you think that everyone else is justified in disliking Mormons just because of what they honestly believe. Sorry, I just don't understand this kind of prejudice and dislike.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 7:01 p.m.

    @A Scientist,
    and others,

    Those who complain about others playing victim,

    seem to be playing the victim the most.

  • Jared Average, SE
    Sept. 20, 2012 6:52 p.m.

    Re: sharrona

    Not everything in the Journal of Discourses is official LDS Church doctrine (and the JofD cannot be used as indicative of official church doctrine without corroborating and documented statements by church presidents acting in official capacity), even if it was reported to have been stated by a church leader (the issue is that many things in the Journal of Discourse volumes were recollections of what was said instead of actual text of what was said and in many cases are . I'm not denying the quote but the issue with that particular quote is you have taken it out of context. FAIR has a decent discussion about that particular quote in context and with other statements from Brigham Young.

    In any case, that quote has nothing to do with my comment. It's a red herring (and a misleading one at that).

  • ulvegaard Medical Lake, Washington
    Sept. 20, 2012 6:36 p.m.

    I don't think we hide our heads in the sand. Sure, some may -- but then that can be said of every group of people.

    Many of us simply don't care to get upset, climb up on towers and cry fowl, or what ever. There are a good number of us who have pretty good grasp on our doctrine and are content to simply exist and do our best without feeling a need to advertise whether or not we feel put upon or discriminated against.

    I have seen many situations where derogatory statements about other factions in society is rebuffed with labels such as bigot or racist, but to point a mocking finger at the LDS faith is applauded at enlightening. Not always, and not by everyone, but enough times that it is difficult to ignore all the time.

  • Schwa South Jordan, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 6:00 p.m.

    Try being an atheist, and see if you get persecuted for your religious beliefs.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 5:49 p.m.

    Stop pretending it's prejudice. If you annoy enough other people they may actually dislike you. Sorry, but you haven't done much for the gays, atheists, sunday shoppers, agnostics, beer drinkers, democrats, environmentalists, and a whole buch of other folks in utah and beyond.

  • Serenity Manti, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 5:46 p.m.

    I simply don't understand it. Why is it so acceptable to say and write derogatory things about the LDS religion? Why isn’t there such a thing as "Mormon Bashing"? Why can't hateful things done against Mormons be a hate crime? If anyone said or wrote anything against the prophet Mohammed or Islam, or Martin Luther King, for instance, there would be incredible repercussions. But if anyone says anything about the LDS Church, it seems as if some people join together and have a good old Mormon denigrating party. They tell lies and half-twisted truths and no one objects. The only one they run down more than Mormons is God. They do the same thing to him - deny his existence while speaking about him with contempt. Of course there are the Evangelicals who claim to believe in God and human love, yet have no problem teaching false things about the LDS Church. Many of them have been taught that Mormons are all evil and children of the devil and are condemned to eternal damnation. Sorry, I simply don't understand This is not following Christ who said to love one another.

  • kishkumen American Fork, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 5:28 p.m.

    The victim mentality displayed in this article is getting really old this year. There are numerous people who have studied the LDS church thoroughly, and are critical of it based on an accurate knowledge they have obtained by attending the church and studying the religion. It is really arrogant to tell those people that they are just being prejudiced.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Sept. 20, 2012 5:16 p.m.

    A Scientist,

    If you ever get tired venting, I recommend trying humor for relief.

  • owlmaster2 Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 5:15 p.m.

    The adverse comments about Mormons come from one on one experiences with Mormons that makes stupid comments or do outrages things. Want an example?
    How about the neighbor that tells a Hindu family that in order for her Mormon children to play with their Hindu children, they, the Hindu's have to have the Mormon Missionaries come and teach them Mormon standards.
    Or the Mormon neighbor that takes a loaf of bread to a neighbor that just moved in and upon finding out the new neighbor of a different faith takes the bread back and leaves.
    Mormon leaders don't have a clue what "real Utah" Mormons are like.

    Some are way weird and judgmental.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 5:11 p.m.

    To: Jared", Most Mormons do not understand their own beliefs and teachings; those who do put their head in the sand to stay apart. True,
    Brigham Young declared that plural marriage was a requirement for exaltation. On August 19, 1866, he said, "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy" (JoD 11:268).

  • Cowboy Dude SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 5:10 p.m.

    atl134 "I'm merely saying that people are going to react differently to the South Park guys, who make fun of anything and everything, and a group that is trying to brand a religion as murderers."

    So how will Al-Queda react to the South Park guys if they show their stuff in the Middle East?

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Sept. 20, 2012 5:02 p.m.

    It’s not too surprising that Joseph Smith could envision God as a human being who once went through his own mortal existence and who after his resurrection went on to progress to the advanced stage of development he had achieved when he created the heavens and the earth as described in the first chapter of Genesis. It resonates because it encapsulates human aspirations to reach heights that are unlimited.

    Joseph Smith once said that the Book of Revelation was the easiest book in the Bible to understand. What a wily fellow he was to cast out a challenge like that for men to shoot for. His heavenly vision was in stark contrast to the more down to earth view of Thomas Jefferson who once described the Book of Revelation as the ravings of a mad man.

  • A Scientist Provo, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 4:59 p.m.

    Moreover, I find it remarkably hypocritical that Mormons claim they have a history of being persecuted and discriminated against by "anti-Mormons", and they are always "misunderstood" -- but a serious study of Mormon history would support the contention that those who persecuted Mormons were almost entirely FORMER Mormons!

    Even the infamously demonized Governor Boggs and his "Extermination Order" was, upon closer inspection, a reasonable and rational response to sworn affidavits by the President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (Thomas B. Marsh) and another senior Apostle (Orson Hyde) who had regular meetings with as well as inside knowledge of the threats and activities of the (shall we say "terrorist group") Danites... with such information from top LDS leaders, Governor Boggs had every reason to issue that order. But "faithful" Mormons NEVER see that side of the history.

    If there are "prejudices" against Mormons, Mormons go a long way toward facilitating such prejudices by their own history, behavior, and persecution complex.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 4:55 p.m.

    "Obviously, you just are okay with branding Mormons, but not Islamists."

    No, I'm not. I'm merely saying that people are going to react differently to the South Park guys, who make fun of anything and everything, and a group that is trying to brand a religion as murderers. I'm saying the scale difference between the two is why it's not entirely useful to use as an example of 'see, they only condemn one thing and not the other'.

    "I've seen enough anti-Mormon propaganda to know that Mormonism have also been branded as a religion of "murderous extremists""

    Yes, and I condemn that stuff. I was LDS for several years after all. I'm fairly familiar with what gets thrown in that direction.

    "Yet you do not have to read much actual Islamic history to see plenty of killing going on."

    You seem to be trying to justify a prejudice while opposing prejudices.

    "that the LDS religion is clearly the most openly attacked and criticized religion today."

    I'd say atheists and Muslims are. After all, they're the ones people respond in surveys as least willing to vote for.

  • A Scientist Provo, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 4:52 p.m.

    I enjoyed Critchley's NYTs article very much. His main thesis, however, was not that "anti-Mormonism" is the last remaining prejudice; rather, it was that the (as he so eloquently put it) "gloriously presumptive and delusional" and poetically and politically audacious theological challenge of Mormonism is "entirely absent from the discussion" about Mormonism.

    Critchley wrote: "It's really fine to say totally uninformed things about Mormonism in public..."

    My disdain for Mormonism is wholly and thoroughly INFORMED by decades of research, study, and experience. So does that make it NOT a "prejudice"? Indeed, mine is an opinion of Mormonism that is "post-judice" - I have judged the religion and its adherents only AFTER taking it seriously and giving it the benefit of the doubt.

    But Mormons persist in their prejudice of ME by calling me "anti-Mormon" and a "hater", and they seem to love to play the persecution card -- they tend to think that anyone who does not think and talk only in superlative terms about Mormonism is "prejudiced" and bigoted.

    But nothing could be further from the truth.

  • Cowboy Dude SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 4:45 p.m.

    Underwear and drinking are common aspects of Mormons and very personal to the members. That is why it is asked about.

    However, concerning the deep doctrine, only LDS Church spokespersons should speak for all Mormons as to what the Church believes.

    We believe in teaching by the Spirit, meaning only what you know to be true. Governor Romney is Mormon but should only speak of his faith as from what he personally believes...saying "I believe...." rather than "we believe..." Unless quoting from the Articles of Faith.

    Therefore, Mormons are not uninformed, and all can speak to their own personal testimony.

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 4:26 p.m.


    Introduce yourself to Mormon history and you'll find that religious discrimination against our people is equal to our claim.

  • Instereo Eureka, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 4:23 p.m.

    Whow, when I read this I thought what about Jews, Moslems, GLBT, Liberals, Democrats, Blacks, Women, and I could go on and on. When I look at the comment section, I'm amazed at how much "Acceptable Prejudice" is shown by people who profess to be LDS. Granted, I'm not perfect, nor are LDS people (BTW, I'm LDS) but we aren't the last "Acceptable Prejudice" we are just one of many and non of them are acceptable. The fact is if you put prejudice on a scale, the LDS population gets far less from the world then other groups and actually do more then their share of spreading prejudice themselves. The bottom line is for me personally, I'm trying to be more open to differences and more accepting of different people.

  • Noodlekaboodle Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 4:23 p.m.

    Mormonism-The last acceptable prejudice?
    Nope, As an out of the closet atheist I have faced plenty of discrimination, much of it from Mormons themselves. However, I will say that I have had the opportunity to meet some of the high up leaders of the Mormon church. I respect those men, because they showed much more respect toward what I believe than the average Mormon I meet in my neighborhood. While they didn't change what I believe it made me wonder where the disconnect between my Mormon neighbors and Mormon general authorities comes in.

  • Palintram Holladay, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 4:18 p.m.

    Please, pause for a moment before you press the send button. Do you sincerely believe yourselves to be subject to more discrimination than Muslims and Jews? Are you kidding me? Do you really want to know about religious discrimination?? Try living in Utah as a non-member. Stop thinking only of yourselves. For a minute.

  • AZRods Maricopa, AZ
    Sept. 20, 2012 4:09 p.m.

    'esquire' You did note that the article in the NY times was writtne by a non Mormon right?
    And the topic of this article evolves around the simple fact...that it's a fact, that the LDS religion is clearly the most openly attacked and criticized religion today.
    So the role of our "whining and playing the victim card" is effectively being done by
    educated, non member observers who see the obvious misguided attacks from people like you.

    You mention that you know the history of your church and are mature enough to stand tall and
    all that stuff. So please share which your religion is. Because you are always chiming in on
    these LDS articles, so I have to wonder just how content you are that you feel the need to
    vent your negative feelings toward other's religion.

  • falasha Mount Laurel, NJ
    Sept. 20, 2012 3:53 p.m.

    [M5913] 4. But the serpent said, '(That is) not so! Because God himself was a man like you when he ate of it, and he became God of all. Because of that he said not to eat of that, because you knew that when you eat of it, you will become a god, his equal. Because of that he said for you not to eat.'
    Stone, M.E., Aremenian Apocrypha Relating to Adam &Eve,

    The serpent said, 'God wants to deceive you, for God was like you, because he had not eaten the fruit. When he ate it he achieved the glory of Divinity. For this reason he said to you not to eat of that fruit, so that you should (not) become equal, sharers both of God's glory and his throne.'
    Transgression SS16-17,

  • RAB Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 3:52 p.m.

    The point of the article is proven by your comment that, "of course you react differently to a play that's poking fun than a video that is trying to brand a religion as murderous extremists"

    Obviously, you just are okay with branding Mormons, but not Islamists. What you attempt to write off as mere "poking fun" is understood by many Mormons as ignorant and heartless mocking, disrespect, and belittlement. I've seen enough anti-Mormon propaganda to know that Mormonism have also been branded as a religion of "murderous extremists". Even the first Sherlock Holmes story branded Mormons as a murderous cult. Yet you do not have to read much actual Islamic history to see plenty of killing going on.

  • Claudio Springville, Ut
    Sept. 20, 2012 3:47 p.m.

    Yeah, Mormonism is the last acceptable religious prejudice...

    ...Because no one ever makes jokes about Jews and money anymore, or claims the President is a Muslim and therefore evil.

    Please, Dr. Faulconer, do tell us which "liberals are sniping about Mormonism." Because all I ever hear is how conservatives are not the biggest fans of it. If liberals are the "God-hating, atheist, secular-loving" monsters you and your friends portray them to be, why would they care about Mormonism more than any other religion? You can't have it both ways.

    That, dear Counter Intel, is indeed playing the victim card in an illegitimate way by a conservative who clearly doesn't want to engage in any thoughtful debate.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 3:46 p.m.

    It's just a matter of time until people embrace Mormons and accept them for what they are. It's just the inevitable. No matter how many people write and preach their hatred of them. In the end they will come out on top and be embraced, while not giving up or compromising their values.

    You'll know who the people that are full of hate are by the way they react to this statement. By their fruit ye shall know them:)

  • Jared Average, SE
    Sept. 20, 2012 3:46 p.m.

    "Most mormons [sic] do not understand thier [sic] own beliefs and teachings; those who do put thier [sic] head [sic] in the sand to stay apart [sic] of the cutlure.[sic]"

    I was going to counter you, but on second thought, I have to agree with you. Most members of the LDS Church do not really understand LDS doctrine, otherwise we'd have no inactive members, 100% home teaching (except in rare extenuating circumstances), no divorces, and virtually no sin. We'd have 100% full tithe payers, weekly to monthly temple attendance by all church members who could reasonably make it that often, and a much larger full-time missionary force. So yes, you are right - most LDS Church members do not really understand the doctrines of the gospel (and I'm including myself in that group). Further, LDS doctrine is progressive and additive, meaning light and knowledge are built upon light and knowledge; what we know now is only a portion of what we can potentially know.

  • Tyler Ray Taylorsville, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 3:43 p.m.

    It's true that most of the world hasn't thought about or recognized the Mormon view on man's divine potential. The most thoughtful people however should admire the doctrine that man can become like God as the King Follett Discourse explains. God our Father loves us with a more powerful love than anyone can imagine. He wants the very best for us (which He has). That is the purpose of the Atonement. "Be he therefore perfect even as your father in heaven which is perfect." This doctrine is the most comforting part of my religion

  • mightymite DRAPER, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 3:29 p.m.

    This article and comments are out there. Most mormons do not understand thier own beliefs and teachings; those who do put thier head in the sand to stay apart of the cutlure.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 3:17 p.m.


    "Please stop playing the victim card."

    Oh the irony

    Playing victim (both legitimate and illegitimately) is the mainstay of the hard left - so apparently left wing sympathizers feel they must protect the passive/aggressive power base by not allowing anyone outside the prescribed victim classes to steal any victim energy.

    Having legitimate theological differences is not bigotry - but why is it so threatening to just admit that anti-Mormonism is morally no different than antisemitism.

    Does it really harm your power structure to admit that politically correct popular culture can be intolerant?

  • BigRich Orem, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 2:58 p.m.

    LDS doctrine will always be different than the rest of the world, and therefore will be unacceptable. Generally speaking, those who are informed about the LDS religion and don't agree with or accept it will still treat the religion respectfully. Those who are not informed will almost always accept false notions about the church because they have no reason not to. It's what we all do when we're too lazy or uninterested to study something enough to draw intelligent conclusions about it. There just seems to be a tendency to make rash judgments about things we "assume" we know something about when we really don't.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Sept. 20, 2012 2:19 p.m.

    I like the approach the Church has taken to the "Book of Mormon" musical. They are buying ads in Playbill so people can find out what the LDS really believe. I think that will do far more good than always bemoaning the lack of knowledge of the Mormons.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 2:00 p.m.

    Please stop playing the victim card. Stuff is said about other religions, too. When the LDS culture comes to their defense instead of hiding out when religions are attacked, standing up for a principle that applies to all faiths, showing courage, then come back to us. In the meantime, you are being whining victims without core strength and conviction. Is Mormonism a mature faith or not? I am well aware of the history of my church, and it is time to grow up, get a thicker skin, and be consistent in the application of principles we want applied to us and which should also apply to others.

  • Kim Cedar Park, Texas
    Sept. 20, 2012 2:00 p.m.

    One of the problems lies with the existence of so many statements and other writings by early church leaders that were "off the record" personal opinions. Critics of the chuch obtain these statements and conclude that they are official church doctrine, i.e., all the speculation regarding why blacks were denied the priesthood. Much of what these critics use are these unofficial documents. The challenge is in streering the debate toward official church doctrine.

  • Mormoncowboy Provo, Ut
    Sept. 20, 2012 12:55 p.m.

    Part of the problem here revolves around this concept of being "uninformed". For example, if so one makes a denigrating Mormonism about polygamy, is that comment uniformed? Well, by the standard of modern Mormon practice, it is an outside jab. Mormons don't practice polygamy, nor have they for nearly 100 years. By the standard of theology, authority, and history, the comment is quite well reflective of a Mormon idiosyncracy that most people find objectionable, and therefore mock. The problem is that Mormons would like to propose that they choose how the "outside world" should view them. No one has that privilege. Now, if Mormons could show that the "prejudicial" comments against them are in fact false (not just "no longer practiced"), then in fact they may have an argument. But to do that they would have to disavow polygamy, the racist policy of former years, etc. Of course, for bigger reasons they can't do that. So, sorry, but you can't have your cake and eat it too!

  • JT4 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 12:55 p.m.

    "the most interesting public conversation about Mormonism hasn't occurred yet." I believe that is true. I also believe it is up to every one of us to live what we know the very best we can so that we are in the best position to engage in those conversations when they come. From experience, I am much more comfortable, and much more able to know what I need to say, when I am doing everything I know I need to do.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 12:50 p.m.

    @deep in thought
    "a great article on Wall Street Journal yesterday (#1 read article) contrasting the outrage for the latest youtube anti-Muslim clip to the embracing of the Book of Mormon musical."

    I thought that article was silly because of course you react differently to a play that's poking fun than a video that is trying to brand a religion as murderous extremists. Now the New York Times article about the matter was much better in my opinion while trying to make the same point as the WSJ one.

  • wjutjck Taylorsville, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 12:39 p.m.

    It's true. The things some people say about members of the LDS Church and their beliefs in the media, would in other instances if said about Jews, Blacks, or Muslims have serious repercussions. The media is very accepting of derogatory comments about the LDS Church that they would be in serious trouble if they said the same about Jews, Blacks, or Muslims.

  • deep in thought Salt Lake, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 12:31 p.m.

    There was a great article on Wall Street Journal yesterday (#1 read article) contrasting the outrage for the latest youtube anti-Muslim clip to the embracing of the Book of Mormon musical. It was very positive towards Mormons while pointing out the ironies.