Red roundup: Launch day for Pac-12 Networks

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  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 21, 2012 2:06 p.m.

    @the waccer

    utah finished with a losing conference record in every single sport but women's soccer last season.

    utah's "fan" base consists of people like you.

    utah lost AT HOME to one of the worst teams in college football last year.

    utah's mens basketball team is widely considered to be the worst team in the nation from any so called "major conference".

    utah couldn't even acheive a winning pac12 record last season with a stacked schedule that didn't include the 2 best teams in the conference.

    utah currently resides in a trailer park.

    utah is currently 0-7 all time against the SLC WMCA

    Sure we can "play this game" all you want.


  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Aug. 20, 2012 4:04 p.m.

    BYU is 3-8-1 all time against Colorado.
    BYU is 6-9 all time against San Jose St.
    BYU lost 54-10 at home on national TV to Utah.
    BYU got schedule hoodwinked by Wisconsin. When is the game at LES?
    BYU fans like to talk about how great independence is, yet that's all you have.
    BYU masquerades as a legacy program but plays WAC teams on the road, just to fill it's schedule!

    Are you sure you want to keep playing this game Duckhunter? Your team is on the losing end.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 20, 2012 10:37 a.m.


    And utah was 20 points worse than Hawaii based on Hawaii beating colorado by 17 and utah losing to colorado by 3 which puts utah squarely at the bottom of the wac about where you belong.

    See how we can keep playing this game?

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Aug. 19, 2012 5:49 p.m.


    Thus making BYU 44 points worse than that, putting your square in the middle of the big sky, about where you belong.

  • Christy B Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 19, 2012 5:22 p.m.


    So it is inarguable that 3-10 Colorado was a better team than 8-5 Utah, making Utah the worst team in the PAC 12.

    Thanks for clearing that up.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Aug. 19, 2012 9:44 a.m.


    You don't get it.

    Polls are based on opinion. It's completely debatable if BYU had a better season. Did they win more games? Absolutely. Does that mean they were better. No. If that were so, then Montana who went 11-3 would be better, cause they won more games.

    Some BYU fans on here want to gloss over a complete whipping that their team took by 44 points and say that 10 wins a and 23rd ranking means they were better than Utah.

    Some here pound their chest saying we were ranked, we one 10 games and in the same breath denigrate Utah's schedule without acknowledging the FACT that BYU's 10 wins were over teams with a combined record of 44-79, not one of them from a major conference, and only 2 of them were even bowl eligible, including Tulsa who you played in that bowl.

    So yes, who had the better season is arguable. Who had the better team, after 44 points in their own house, is not.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    Aug. 18, 2012 11:39 p.m.


    Get real!

    The debate is about who had the better overall season, ergo, the better overall team.

    Obviously the logic of "one game does not a season make" is lost on you.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Aug. 18, 2012 9:13 a.m.

    Cougs for life and My little brother

    You guys still don't get it. The debate isn't who had a better season, the debate is who was better.

    I'm arguing that a 44 point beat down is more indicative of who was better because it is based on a head to head objective results than an opinion poll done at the end of the season.

    Who had a better season is a completely different argument. I'm not sure how much more clear I can be.

    To your point little bro, there are Utah fans that still think like that, and I think that mindset is ridiculous. Personally, I would much rather win the pac12 than beat BYU, but beating BYU, is like a cherry on top. But you know as well as I do, there are BYU fans who's season is made or broken with how thy fare against Utah, especially with Utah''s move to the PAC and BYU's move to Indy.

  • Cougs4Life Gilbert, AZ
    Aug. 18, 2012 8:16 a.m.


    Come on man?

    How can you credibly argue that the only fact that matters in the "who had a better season" argument between BYU and Utah is who won in September, but then turn around and say that Colorado was better on one Saturday, but Utah had a better season than the Buffs? You can't see that it is just as logical that Utah was better than BYU on one given Saturday, but that BYU had a better season?

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    Aug. 17, 2012 11:54 p.m.


    You're right; beating Utah is fun, but BYU fans would rather have a great season and finish in the Top 25, than put all their effort into winning one game while stinking it up the rest of the season.

    Utah fans are still stuck in the 80's and 90's when beating BYU was the ONLY thing that mattered to the Utes.

    Once a little brother, always a little brother, even if you think you're a big boy now.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Aug. 17, 2012 6:11 p.m.


    I respectfully disagree.

    How a fan base interprets rankings does not alter facts. Rankings are opinions, scoreboard is a fact.

    I'm not saying that Utah is better than BYU because of rank, I'm saying they are better because they beat them head to head.

    I also never said it was better to beat a ranked team than be a ranked team.

    You did, however, do a great job of illustrating a point which seems to be common among some BYU fans on this board. It appears some BYU fans on here would rather end up being ranked higher than Utah, than beat Utah. Which is very closely related to the mentality which you accuse Utah fans of entertaining.

  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    Aug. 17, 2012 5:52 p.m.


    "Now my personal opinion is that Utah was not better than BYU last year..."

    LOL, classic.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Aug. 17, 2012 5:28 p.m.


    You're absolutely correct, and I put that in there as an aside that if BYU fans are going to cling to rankings as the be all end all over head to head, then they need to recognize that Utah is at this point of the season (TIC) better than BYU.

    Now, I know Utah wasn't 44 point better than BYU last year, but in my opinion they were better. Obviously teams stub a toe, and I think the fractures that Heaps caused were a big factor in BYU's lack of heart in that game.

  • UoU 1991 Park City, UT
    Aug. 17, 2012 4:07 p.m.

    Truth Machine

    Cummulatively, it does sound more impressive to say that Utah beat four ranked teams in 2008, but that's still only one season. It's much harder to finish in the Top 25 in four different seasons.

    As Duckhunter said, except for BYU's meltdown against Utah and Utah's meltdown against Colorado, the two teams were quite similar in 2011. The biggest difference was BYU only lost to good teams. Utah lost to several bad teams.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Aug. 17, 2012 3:44 p.m.

    An yet after all those top 25 finishes, BTU is STILL on the outside looking in!
    No official conference invite after 40+ years.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 17, 2012 3:27 p.m.


    "How Utah fans address the rankings has nothing to do with this discussion..."

    Don't kid yourself.

    How Utah fans address rankings is absolutely germane to this discussion.

    Everytime a Utah fan brags about the Utes beating a ranked team, they're claiming that it's more prestigious to beat a ranked team because ranked teams are BETTER than unranked teams.

    Everytime a Utah fan brags about Utah being ranked higher than another team, they're using rankings as proof that Utah is a better team.

    The real issue is U live with this delusion that BEATING a ranked team is more important than BEING a ranked team.


    Because a program that has only managed to finish in the Top 25 in both polls FIVE times in their ENTIRE history, doesn't have much to brag about when it comes to Top 25 finishes.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 17, 2012 3:01 p.m.


    "If rankings mean so much, then obviously Utah is again better than BYU this year because most polls have them receiving more votes than BYU."

    That does not make your case because utah would not be better than BYU "again" based on the polls because based on the polls last year they were not better than BYU. You want to say head to head matters when utah wins that and the polls matter when utah wins that.

    Now my personal opinion on this is that utah was not better than BYU last year, I think they were pretty similar as to what level of teams they were. I think that whe they played utah outplayed BYU, that is inarguable, and with quite a bit of help from BYU it became a beatdown in the second half. That stuff happens and anyone that looks at it honestly knows that what occured there was not all utah, BYU just plain didn't show up to play.

    But it balanced out as the season progressed. BYU improved and utah lost at home to an absolutely horrible team and took several other beatdowns along the way. They were pretty even in the end.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Aug. 17, 2012 2:14 p.m.


    You're off point here. It's a classic misdirection move, change the argument. How Utah fans address the rankings has nothing to do with this discussion

    You're also wrong. I'm quite consistent in my argument. I'm not arguing that ranking mean nothing. In cases without a head to head matchup, it is all we have. I'm arguing that you can't say BYU was better than Utah last year. My argument is that objective facts (Utah beating BYU by 44 indicate that Utah was better than BYU last year). Everything else is based on opinion of what people think would happen.

    If rankings mean so much, then obviously Utah is again better than BYU this year because most polls have them receiving more votes than BYU. Which way would you like it to be, because you cant have it both ways?

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    Aug. 17, 2012 12:20 p.m.


    EVERY poll is based on OPINION, but that doesn't change the fact the Utah fans constantly beat their chests every time Utah beats a "ranked" team. Who's to say that a ranked team is better than an unranked team? Try showing just a smidgeon of consistency in your arguments. Either being ranked means something or it doesn't. Either being ranked higher than another team means something or it doesn't.

    BYU lost to Utah in mid-September.

    Utah lost to 10-loss Colorado in lste November.

    Can you prove that Utah was a better team than BYU by season's end or that BYU wouldn't have beaten Utah if they'd played a rematch the Saturady after Thanksgiving?

    Bottom line:

    BYU finished the season ranked, ergo, BYU was considered a better team nationally, than unranked Utah.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Aug. 17, 2012 12:00 p.m.


    A classic response, and right in line with the BYU spin. You want so desperately to say that BYU was better than Utah last year, but you can't rely on the actual facts, so you create surrogate arguments to justify you position. It's like you took a page out of the Obama campaign.

    The fact is Utah beat BYU by 44 points in Provo. But those BYU fans arguing here would have us ignore that fact. They argue that despite the head to head results we should look at the polls, or that BYU had 10 wins, or that they won 9 of their last 10 games. Those things are supposed to prove that BYU was better than Utah last year, but, they can't erase the reality of 54-10.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Aug. 17, 2012 11:32 a.m.


    That is incorrect. According to opinion, BYU was better than Utah at the end of the season (subjective)

    According to the results on the field, Utah was 44 points better than BYU at that point of the season. Until they play again, that Fact cannot be refuted, and any other conclusion is merely based on opinion.

    If, however, putting more stock in theoretical outcomes helps the wound of that 44 point beat down heal, and helps you sleep at night then by all means, but it won't change the final outcome. The only outcome based on data that was 54-10, everything else was opinion.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    Aug. 17, 2012 11:24 a.m.

    "You say that Utah fans only care about rankings when it benefits them, well what are you doing right now?"

    You're right. BYU fans love to play the rankings game with Utah fans because BYU OWNS U when it comes to final rankings, which, unfortunately for U are the ONLY thing that matters on a national basis.

    In the end, college football teams are judged by where they finish in the final polls.

    Even jealous Utah fans acknowledge this EVERY time they spout off about the Utes beating a "ranked" team.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 17, 2012 11:13 a.m.


    The final rankings are the final word on the ENTIRE season.

    Colorado BEAT Texas in the Big 12 Championship game 2001 and played in a BCS game; Texas was relegated to the Holiday Bowl

    yet, Texas finished the season ranked higher than Colorado.

    Bottom line:

    Despite all of the hyperbole, BYU finished the 2011-12 season ranked #25 Coaches, #26 AP, while Utah didn't get a single vote in either poll.

    According to the opinions of the national media and coaches, BYU had a better overall season.

    Another Top 25 finish for BYU (BYU's 18th such finish since 1977)
    Another unranked finish for Utah (as usual)

    U can whine about it if it helps you sleep better at night, but that won't change the final outcome.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Aug. 17, 2012 10:42 a.m.


    Reasonable question. The fact is they beat Utah, so, on that day they certainly were. Overall Utah had a better season, but Colorado bet them, a fact that cannot be disputed


    Those are all fine examples. And if BYU had played Utah at the end of the season they MAY have won. But they didn't play. If opinion matters that much, then why even play the game. Why don't we just have people debate on who should win, then vote on it.?There you have, the best team.

    You say that Utah fans only care about rankings when it benefits them, well what are you doing right now? You are trying to play off a 44 point beat down as if it was a fluke, and basing that on the fact that you beat a bunch of weak teams down the stretch to finish with 10 wins and got ranked.

  • midpacmajor Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 17, 2012 10:09 a.m.


    "There's only one reason an article about the Utes would elicit this much of a response from BYU fans..."

    The first half of your statement is correct. but let me help with your jealous, misguided conclusion.

    The one reason BYU fans would comment on this subject is...

    to punch a giant hole in that bag of PAC Net hot air that's been blowing off the hill for over a year.

    You can whine all you want, but that's not going to change the reality that the PAC Net is falling far short of expectations.

    Why would BYU fans be jealous of Utah being a minor partner of an inferior network?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 17, 2012 9:56 a.m.


    So you must believe colorado was a better team than utah. It is inarguable.

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    Aug. 17, 2012 9:55 a.m.


    You continue to demonstrate your lack of understanding. One game does not a season make.

    Case in point:

    October 20, 2001
    Colorado is DOMINATED at Texas 7-41

    5 weeks later

    December 1, 2001
    Colorado BEATS Texas 39-37 in the Big 12 Championship game to earn a spot in the Fiesta Bowl

    Based on your short-sighted "one head-to-head matchup PROVES which team is better" OPINION, Texas was clearly the better team and the Big 12 shouldn't have even bothered playing the rematch in December.

    Continuing the story:

    Colorado loses to Oregon 16-38 in the Fiesta Bowl
    Texas beats Washington 47-43 in the Holiday Bowl

    Final Polls
    Texas #5 AP, #5 Coaches
    Colorado #9 AP, #9 Coaches

    Objective fans/coaches/sportswriters consider the ENTIRE season when rating teams.

    It's laughable how much stock Utah fans put in the OPINIONS of the pollsters when Utah is ranked ahead of BYU, and how much they whine about the poll only being biased opinions, when BYU is ranked ahead of Utah.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 17, 2012 9:34 a.m.

    There's only one reason an article about the Utes would elicit this much of a response from BYU fans (almost ever single comment on this thread). That reason is JEALOUSY.
    Laugh all you want Cougies ... this is only the beginning of the Pac-12 Network and you all know it's only going to grow and get better. So yeah, get your jabs in while you can ... it's oh so very pathetic and obvious, but get them in nonetheless.
    It's great to be a Ute!

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Aug. 17, 2012 7:30 a.m.


    You don't get it do you. The coach's poll and AP poll are based on OPINION, not fact. Therefore, it is not a conclusion based on objective data like a 54-10 beat down is.

    The Sagarin rankings based on trends and and predictors, run through a computer. And if a computer says its correct, wow, it must be so.

    Therefore, you didn't burst my bubble, you just demonstrated you lack of understanding

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Aug. 16, 2012 11:26 p.m.


    "Your argument is based on speculation and opinion, mine, Utah was better than BYU by beating them head to head 54-10, is based on fact."

    Sorry to burst your crimson bubble, but the glaring FACT that you've so carefully chosen to ignore is:

    BYU #25 Coaches, #26 AP, #34 Sagarin
    Utah not a single vote in either poll, #39 Sagarin

    Clearly, the national media and coaches agreed that the team that finished the season winning 9 of their last 10 games, including a bowl win over #35 Tulsa, was better than the team that LOST 4 of their last 10 games, including a home loss to the 107th worst team in the country.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Aug. 16, 2012 10:16 p.m.


    I get your point, but I think it would be better phrased "not yet what was promised"

    Admittedly I haven't read everything about it, but I do think it will end up pretty close to how Scott presented it in the fisrt place. It's very early in he process.

    If we are in the same spot in 2 months, it will be a disappointment, 1 year a flop, 2 years a disaster.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 16, 2012 9:34 p.m.


    This is not what was promised.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Aug. 16, 2012 9:22 p.m.

    Nice to see Duckhunter carry on the tradition of twisting words, and PAC man try very hard to be a troll.
    At least you have a new independent buddy now. Go Idaho!

    And BYUs season ending schedule sure looks great! A national audience is waiting to see Idaho, New Mexico St and San Jose St!

    Yay! Can't wait for the replay of those games on BYU TV.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Aug. 16, 2012 9:12 p.m.


    Your argument is based on speculation and opinion, mine, Utah was better than BYU by beating them head to head 54-10, is based on fact.

    And your last statement is just ridiculous.

  • Jealous U Alpine, UT
    Aug. 16, 2012 7:17 p.m.


    Top 25 > unranked

    No matter how you spin it.

    The Utah team that was dominated by Colorado would have lost by much more than 3 points to BYU in late November.

    Utah's position is playing 2nd fiddle to USC in really good years, PAC 12 South doormat in bad years.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Aug. 16, 2012 5:22 p.m.


    You want an honest answer, I will happy to give one.

    First of all, why did you chose a 6 year window? Because it was convenient for your argument?

    We all know that head to head, Utah has a large lead in football, and basketball is close.

    We also all know that any team with a pulse could have finished your schedule last year at 10-3. You effectively established yourself as the 2nd best team in Utah and Idaho. Congratulations

    If you are insinuating that BYU was better than Utah last year, you're up in the night. Yes, Utah lost by 3 to Colorado. You lost by 44 points.

    Now if you are honest with yourself, you'll admit that Utah's position in the PAC-12 is light years ahead of BYU's position as an independent and in the WCC. And you'd gladly change spots if you could.

    Only if we are being "honest" with each other.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Aug. 16, 2012 5:17 p.m.

    Oh sammy,

    You're schtick is so played.

    I'm reporting what a friend of mine saw who gets it. I don't get it yet, but I'm confident DRTV will get it before the season starts.

    My wildest dreams have already come true. I'm a fan of the best football team in Utah, I have a great job, and a great family, and I don't spend my time trolling the comment section of articles for a team I obviously can't stand, just to pick a fight or make myself feel clever.

  • Jealous U Alpine, UT
    Aug. 16, 2012 4:42 p.m.


    "Do accomplishments of over 25 years count as nostalgic?"

    The "ancient history" arguments Utah fans like use become more and more laughable every year...

    but just to placate U, let's just use the last 6 years for comparison.

    Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 5
    Utah 3

    Top 15 Finishes
    BYU 3
    Utah 1

    Conference Championships
    BYU 2
    Utah 1

    BYU 60-18
    Utah 58-20

    BYU 3
    Utah 3


    NCAA Tournaments
    BYU 6
    Utah 1

    25+ Win Seasons
    BYU 6
    Utah 0

    Conference Championships
    BYU 4
    Utah 1

    BYU 165-44 (79%)
    Utah 86-104 (45%)

    BYU 10
    Utah 1

    It's obvious to any objective observers which school has the dominant sports program.


    10-3 Top 25 > 8-5 PAC bottom dweller

    Was Utah much better than Colorado last season even though the Buffs dominated the Utes in the first half and won the head-to-head matchup on Utah's home field?

    Answer the question honestly and you'll understand why one game does not a season make.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Aug. 16, 2012 4:04 p.m.


    Got your Pac12 Network in Idaho or are you watching VHS tape of the Ute wonder years, secretly watching some BYUtv archives, or just 'hearing' stuff and reporting on hearsay???

    So what does "I only reported the ones I heard of" mean. ESPN 700 audio archives???

    "Looking forward to a repeat this year."

    Surely you don't mean going 4-5 again. LOL

    Here's hoping for your wildest dreams of DirectTV come true!

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Aug. 16, 2012 12:52 p.m.


    Interesting arguments. Do accomplishments of over 25 years count as nostalgic?

    I didn't say there wasn't a single highlight, I only reported the ones I heard of.

    Your math is interesting. Last time I checked 54>>10.

    Looking forward to a repeat this year.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 16, 2012 8:58 a.m.


    Video montages and replays of MWC games are nice if you're feeling nostalgic, but after all of the chest-beating about being one of the "big boys", it's ironic that the Utes don't have a single highlight to boast about from their first year in the PAC...

    8th in football with a losing conference record
    11th in basketball with only 3 conference wins
    last or next to last in every other men's sport

    10-3 Top 25 > 8-5 conference bottom dweller

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Aug. 16, 2012 7:34 a.m.

    HaHa I laughed because they don't have a HD truck and they don't show on tvs in China like we do.

  • Just Wondering... Gilbert, AZ
    Aug. 15, 2012 11:33 p.m. the Pac10 Regional networks couldn't get on Cox in Phoenix, in addition to not being on satellite? Cox is the major cable network here...I guess ASU and UA fans don't need to watch their games. And isn't it ironic that the Pac10 was able to get the Comcast channel vacated by the mtn when it folded? Welcome back to the mtn Utah!

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Aug. 15, 2012 10:56 p.m.

    I think by the time the season rolls around, Dish will be the only one not carrying the network.

    Skywalker, you must have missed the replay of the 2008 Utah/TCU game that Was rebroadcast at 8:30, or the video montage with Utah raising the Sugar Bowl trophy. I admire your "independent" spirit.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Aug. 15, 2012 10:51 p.m.

    and Cox Cable is NOT going to provide the national Pac 12 Network in the region as originally 'promised' and in only FIVE markets outside of the region. Las Vegas, Sun Valley, 2 other places and Omaha????????

    I'm sorry I'm not buying Omaha as a viable Pac 12 market. There's 3 things in Nebraska... they are corn, cattle and Husker football. I've worked in Lincoln and have bowed at the altar of Memorial Stadium. There are no Pac 12 fans in Omaha.

    Striker can verify that.

    On a brighter note...I did catch the Pac12Network on channel 37 on Comcast. Wasn't that the old 'theMtn' channel? I believe it is so Larry did 'score' the channel for pennies on the dollar from ol' what's his name from the MWC.

    Some things never change!

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    Aug. 15, 2012 10:38 p.m.

    I tuned into the new PAC Net just to see what all the fuss was about, and the very first thing I saw, no lie, was a replay of USC blocking Utah's FG attempt and returning it for a touchdown.

    Utah, the new PAC whipping boy - a harbinger of things to come!


  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 15, 2012 9:57 p.m.

    This is not what was promised.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    Aug. 15, 2012 4:50 p.m.

    I just checked the PAC 12 Conference website and my eyes are watering from laughing so hard about the opening lineup for Thursday, August 30th...

    UNCO @ Utah
    4:00 p.m.
    PAC 12 Network

    UCLA @ Rice
    4:30 p.m.
    CBS Sports Network

    WSC @ BYU
    7:15 p.m.

    NAU @ ASU
    7:30 p.m.
    PAC 12 Network


  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Aug. 15, 2012 3:09 p.m.

    ... and it won't be on satellite.