Hatch, Liljenquist trade heated barbs in morning debate

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  • rdwaltman Salt Lake City, UT
    June 20, 2012 4:43 p.m.

    The citizens of Utah have a rare opportunity to send a powerful message to our nation capital that we are no longer going to tolerate politics as usual. Orrin Hatch ran his initial campaign on the importance of terms limits and that 3 terms in Washington was long enough. Now seeking his 7th term, it is more than fair to scrutinize whether or not another term for Hatch is in the best interest of Utah. Hatch is part of the political elite in Washington and the group that has saddled our children with huge debt and a very dubious financial future. Hatch would have us believe that he is the only one who is qualified to lead us out of this mess, when in fact he is part of the problem. The time has come for him to retire. It is absurd to think that the same leadership that created this fiscal problem can somehow extricate us. He certainly was not able to do anything over the past 36 years to change the outcome of this mess, so what makes him think he is so essential to solving the problem? Only his ego!

  • I M LDS 2 Provo, UT
    June 19, 2012 5:22 p.m.

    "Sen. Hatch and his generation of politicians have presided over the biggest run-up in debt in the history of mankind. They have voted repeatedly to increase the debt ceiling. They have voted to expand entitlements we couldn't afford."

    True that!

    "Hatch said he was running to help GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney in Washington."

    What? SIX terms of office wasn't enough time to get it right?

    Hatch has no credibility and is nothing but a crony name-dropping sell-out.

  • PeanutGallery Salt Lake City, UT
    June 19, 2012 8:06 a.m.

    If you need more evidence of how Hatch's many years in Washington have led to compromising his principles, see Tuesday's on-line Deseret News article about Hatch's crony capitalism (in the search box, type "crony capitalism").

    The article shows how Hatch has his own Solyndra, a now-bankrupt "green energy" company named Raser Technologies, to which Hatch funneled millions of earmarked taxpayer dollars. And Hatch says he's proud of supporting companies like this. The voters should be as outraged at Hatch as they are about Obama and Solyndra.

    A new Hatch radio ad says that Hatch does "big things for small business." Yes, and Raser Technologies is a prime example, with the taxpayers left holding the bag. It's another reason to vote against Hatch, and for Dan Liljenquist.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    June 18, 2012 5:09 p.m.

    I'm an independent conservative with a pragmatic streak. The my way or the highway approach espoused by Liljenquist just won't work. And, I'm not a Hatch shill.

    Fitz you are dead wrong. Your memory must not go back to 1976. Hatch has never said once that he'd serve two terms. Not once. You are thinking of Bennett, who did make that promise.

  • Gail Fitches Layton, UT
    June 18, 2012 12:53 p.m.

    I will not vote for Senator Orrin Hatch, because he keeps voting to take away the rights of the people. People need to keep track of his voting record. He voted for the NDAA Bill that takes away all of our rights, they can arrest anyone without charges, hold them indefinately, and also murder American citizens on the hit list. He has done nothing to stop all the genetically modified food we are being poisoned with, and he voted against Rand Pauls bill to put limits on the FDA from raiding organic farmers and destroying their businesses. I am keeping track of how he votes, and lately, he has been a puppet for the industries that are harming the health of the people. If we do not have our health, we have nothing. I have voted for him every time, but this time, I will not be voting for him, and I am very disappointed in the many serious issues that he has voted for, that take away our freedom and harm our health.

  • mightyhunterhaha Kaysville, UT
    June 18, 2012 7:45 a.m.

    Dan Liljenquist couldn't win his way out of a paper bag. he won nothing except to rant like a two year old wanting candy. A vote for Dan Liljenquist is a vote to create more grid lock. A vote for Dan Liljenquist is a vote to hurt Utah and the country. Dan Liljenquist, Clark and other rigth wing zealots need to be retired from politics. We need people like Hatch who use their head and actual help the country not fight against things for the sake of my way or the highway.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 17, 2012 1:17 p.m.

    I thought it was President Obama that caused all the this countries debt? You mean Senator Hatch has some responsibility for this debt to? Are there others beside President Obama and Senator Hatch? I am sure Senator Reid is as well, but are there any other republicans who are responsible for the debt we are in?

  • PeanutGallery Salt Lake City, UT
    June 17, 2012 12:49 p.m.

    Re: Gr8Dane: Liljenquist's use of the term "fiscal child abuse" was entirely appropriate. It does not imply that Hatch is a child abuser. Rather, it emphasizes the serious, very real harm that Hatch and other Washington politicians are inflicting on the future of our children by their reckless, out-of-control spending.

    Others have described this same damage as "generational theft," "robbing from our grandchildren," "punishing our posterity," "abusing the next generation," etc.

    These all appropriately describe the AWFUL situation that we find ourselves in, due to the irresponsibility of Washington politicians such as Orrin Hatch, who apparently "know better" than the concept of a limited federal government as defined in the Constitution. Hatch claims no responsibility AT ALL for any of this debt, and I find that astounding.

  • Gr8Dane Tremonton, UT
    June 17, 2012 6:49 a.m.

    Outrageous to use the term "Fiscal Child Abuse" for crass political purposes! It's offensive. It implies that Hatch is guilty of child abuse. Real child abuse is demeaned by politician wannabees hijacking the term for their own crass political purposes and desperate "hail Mary" headline grabbing stunt.

    No matter what one thinks of Hatch, he's at least got the good sense to not resort to those kinds of infantile tactics.

    With one ill chosen phrase, Liljenquist has exposed a tremendous lack of judgment. I just don't think he's old enough or has enough proven real-world experience to instantly be elected to one of the highest offices int he land. Particularly when we already have one very junior senator back there with Senator Lee.

  • chiefbrady Draper, UT
    June 17, 2012 1:02 a.m.

    Hatch must go! This is the same guy who voted for TARP, for illegal aliens, for increased taxes, for less liberty, for uber-liberals like Sotomayor and Kagan, for raising the debt ceiling and on and on and on. I am sick to death of the argument that we need seniority in Washington. What we need is a Senator who votes the way Utahns want him to vote! Utahns are smart enough to see through his shenanigans with the NRA and HAFB commercials and we remember how he voted!

    I say it's way past time - Hatch must go! If he gets re-elected, you just know he isn't going to get anything done except have the biggest office, all the notoriety and infamy of 42 years of office (can you imagine?) and he'll be 84 before we can get another senator. Jimminy Cricket!!! Does anybody think we need somebody for that long? At that age?

    Please Senator Hatch, do the honorable thing and bow out. You're absolutely corrupt if you think we don't remember the mess you and your cohorts have put us in.

  • OneAmerican Idaho Falls, ID
    June 16, 2012 11:46 p.m.

    @Gildas 12:35 PM

    Your statement that "Everyone DOES pay taxes, including federal taxes, already." is simply not true. If you make $30,000 and have 6 kids, not only will you get EVERY PENNY of federal taxes that was withheld, you will get thousands of dollars back you DID NOT pay in (redistribution of wealth). Less than 50% of Americans pay ANY federal taxes and liberals use that as a tool to buy votes every 2 years.

  • swede1952 Smithfield, UT
    June 16, 2012 11:29 p.m.

    Could we please get one thing straight before we write our ignorance for ALL to see? The word "isle" means island, like Greenland. The word "aisle" means like an aisle in a movie theater or "to work across the aisle" in politics. If your write "isle" instead of "aisle", you have the politician working across the island, . . . which in Utah, being landlocked, is kinda of hard to do!

    Dan left his state Senate position to run against Hatch. He couldn't run against Hatch and be a member of the state Senate. I thought EVERYONE knew that! He didn't give up his seat because of laziness or apathy. Please keep the truth, the truth when writing in!

    Teachers and other state employees are lucky to still have jobs. Because of Dan's reforms there were NO lay-offs and MOST younger teachers NOW have 401s to plan their retirements with. Read and listen to Peanut Gallery, he's one SMART dude! Dan is the BEST choice for Senator!

    Orrin and his SENIORITY and BALANCED-BUDGET and "I saved Hill AFB" have ALL seen a better day! Dave Hansen, is this the BEST you can do??? C'mon, Dave!

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    June 16, 2012 10:21 p.m.

    I seeboth canpaigns have got their staffers blogging.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    June 16, 2012 10:16 p.m.

    Dan, Orrin, what's the difference? The same discredited conservative nightmare as 2008. Why would we go back to that?

  • Hunt Spanish Fork, UT
    June 16, 2012 5:10 p.m.

    @Vernal grandma

    "The thing that bothers me, is that Washington is becoming so fractured with those either on the extreme left or the extreme right. No one is willing to cross the isle and work with the other side, or compromise in any way."

    This whole fractured nonsense is a myth perpetuated by the establishment in an effort to hold onto there "status quo" power. This despite the FACT that Hatch and his ilk in congress together are directly responsible for this countries current financial nightmare.

    We need Representatives who are willing to stand against increases in spending and government growth. This will serve to swing the balance of power from the establishment big spending and big government policies towards fiscal responsibility and leaner more efficient government.
    The line in the sand in which compromises occur has been moved to the left. Only by voting for strong principled conservatives can we move it back. Hatch has been far to willing to "reach across the isle" and compromise under these damaging conditions

  • Vernal grandma Vernal, UT
    June 16, 2012 3:26 p.m.

    Term limits are great, as long as all the other states in the United States have them too. I can not understand why Utahns would want to elimate what status and power Orrin has built up in Washington. We need him there for another six years. The thing that bothers me, is that Washington is becoming so fractured with those either on the extreme left or the extreme right. No one is willing to cross the isle and work with the other side, or compromise in any way. That is why nothing gets accomplished. I just don't see Liljenquist having any power, or being willing to work with those more moderate. This is why we need two political parties. No far left liberals or far right conservatives. Balance is always good!
    Vote for Orrin! He has the Seniority and will continue to have a voice for Utah.

  • PeanutGallery Salt Lake City, UT
    June 16, 2012 3:24 p.m.

    Sen. Hatch's votes have helped to put us much deeper in debt as a nation. During the radio debate, Hatch tried to excuse these votes by claiming that during much of his time in the Senate, the Republicans were in the minority.

    But Liljenquist exposed the dishonesty in Hatch's claim, by pointing out that no one "forced" Hatch to vote a certain way. Hatch didn't have to vote for unpaid-for big-government programs, REGARDLESS of which party was in the majority. Hatch is conservative when it's CONVENIENT.

    Re: Orem Parent: Liljenquist didn't do away with teachers' retirement plans. He changed them from "defined benefit" to "defined contribution" (i.e., 401k-type, instead of pension-type). That's what most businesses have also done in recent years, because it keeps the plan viable and sound, so it will still be there for retirees down the road. It also gives the employees greater say in their own retirement savings. Both of those seem like big POSITIVES, so you should be CHEERING for Liljenquist.

  • Uncle Charles Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    June 16, 2012 2:40 p.m.

    @Fred: It's not difficult to give specifics, people do it every day.

    @Vaughn: Ok, you are a Hatch supporter. We get it. You must be related to Hatch for someone to have the devotion like you.

    If Hatch is a conservative, not just a Republican, can you explain his votes for the following:

    - Patriot Act
    - TARP
    - 16 times to raise the debt ceilin
    - NDAA
    - NCLB

    Just to name a few.... please explain how those votes are conservative votes and even constitutional. Thanks in advance.

  • Vaughn J Kearns, UT
    June 16, 2012 2:08 p.m.

    @Utah_1 You are at it again and again re pasting your tired comments. Liljenquist got through his bills in 2011 because there was little substance to the majority of them, he had a majority (super-majority) in the utah senate and house); why should the bills not have passed.

    Liljenquist showed that he only had one objective, criticize Hatch for the 2 or 3 things that he has spouted all year. He obviously doesn't stay on track because he didn't directly answer several questions but diverted the discussion back to his criticism of Hatch. It is like he did not stay on track and complete his term as Senator, remember that he is no longer a Utah State Senator because he resigned to pursue other interests.

    Liljenquist stated that the US Senate had a republican majority during periods of Hatch's tenure; True, but it was only by 2or 3 votes and not sufficient to get legislation to the floor when the democrats opposed the measures, such as balanced budget amendments. Again it seems that Liljenquist was being obsequious to the out of state Freedom-works, tea party stance regarding Hatch, not Hatch's overall record.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    June 16, 2012 12:00 p.m.

    Hatch thinks he is not responsible for anything that is going on with the country? really? after 36 years and not taking responsibility at all.

  • swede1952 Smithfield, UT
    June 16, 2012 7:48 a.m.

    "And the influence and impact of the chairmanship of the Finance Committee cannot be overstated."

    I think you just did! In fact, Mr. Hatch is both greatly overstated and grossly over rated! VOTE DAN on June 26th!

  • knayrb01 sandy, UT
    June 16, 2012 7:23 a.m.

    While I am not a large fan of Hatch, he is a better choice than Liljenquist. Anyone who follows the Utah Legislature will knows that Liljenquist killed the ability of Utah to keep and hire quality people. This cost the state money in the long run and doesn't save it. Liljenquist doesn't know how to balance cheap vs quality. Sometimes you have to spend a little money to buy quality that in the long run will save even larger amounts of money in the end. I think Hatch gets that but to Liljenquist, it always just the cheapest. The State of Utah is suffering tremendously today because of his bills against workers and the working environment. I wish we had a better choice to go up against Hatch but Liljenquist isn't going to be "the one" with me.

    I'm happy to have Liljenquist out of the State Legislature and hope he never makes it to the Federal level.

  • c'villegirl CENTERVILLE, UT
    June 16, 2012 12:52 a.m.

    I feel that if Mr. Lilenquist wanted to be taken seriously as a candidate for the US Senate, he should have shown a greater committment to the office he was elected to initially. Instead of even completing the one term he was elected to serve, he chose to resign from his office, forcing the Republican party to incur the expense of a special election to replace him, so that he could run for another office!! To me, that indicates a strong personal political ambition, rather than a focus on public service. At this time, Utah cannot afford to have two first term Senators in Washington...neither of whom has the the experience needed to work in our best interest. Mr. Lilenquist may be a viable candidate at another time....once he has proven his commitment to serving the state of Utah rather than his personal ambitions. At this time, I believe we absolutely need the knowledge, understanding and long term commitment of Mr. Harch to our state. And the influence and impact of the chairmanship of the Finance Committee cannot be overstated.

  • swede1952 Smithfield, UT
    June 16, 2012 12:18 a.m.

    I listened to the radio debate today between Senator Hatch and Dan Liljenquist. While I listened, I couldn't help thinking how well Dan does with impromptu speaking or "speaking on his feet". To me, Dan's comments were informative and well thought out. I thought for the most part, Dan was respectful, but at the same time, assertive and knowledgeable. I think Dan would be a great addition to the Utah national Congressional delegation.

    On the other hand, I thought Hatch was overly defensive, almost to the point of playing the "victim" What's with this, "Am I to blame for ALL that's wrong in Washington," business? Yes, Senator Hatch, you are PART of the problem! You consistently vote for BIG government and EXCESSIVE federal spending! How many more additional generations are NOW indebted a lifetime to politicians who freely spend their monies?

    To me, what I consider "over the top" was when Hatch feebly told the "Help, I'm in a hole" parable. I NEARLY lost it! What in the name of #$%& was that ALL about??? To me it was a sloppily, modified version of the "Good Samaritan" parable. Orrin, are you NOW in the Bible? Ludicrous!

  • L Central, Utah
    June 16, 2012 12:06 a.m.

    I have never been known as a Hatch fan. I travel all over the US and may be in several states during the week. I frequently have a meal with some high powered business men. Many of them are very politixally connected. I avoid bringing up politics, but that usually gets going when I slip and say I am from Utah.

    It can point out that we are one of the best managed states in the Union and often the response, "Sure you could top everyone if you could get rid of some of those crazy guys in the State Legislature." So word gets around. Mike Lee has gotten some of those "strange guys" remarks.

    Our Utah Legislature has not helped the image of our State based on most of the people I have talked with.

    Yes Orrin is a career politican, but an experienced one. I'll be voting for him to represent me.

    Somehow, what I think citizens should work towards is eliminiating the seniority business in Congress where each Senator has the vote of one, not one times years in office times the votes he/she has made in order to get votes for him later.

  • Captain Green Heber City, UT
    June 15, 2012 10:57 p.m.

    No politician in any office should remain for decades. Career Senators are bad for America! Hatch had his chance for "36" years to make a mark, now as an "old" man, he should gracefully step down, and let new energetic blood like Liljenquist, who is brilliant and sharp, take over. I mean the man is 78 years old and if re-elected will be "82" when he finishes his term. That's obscene to the max! Utah would be crazy to keep old Hatch when we could have young Dan!

  • Fred33 KAYSVILLE, UT
    June 15, 2012 8:22 p.m.

    @ Uncle Charles

    It is pretty hard to get into specifics on a comment board. Do you have a couple of hours to talk. :-) You claim that Orrin Hatch is arrogant. I thought that was pretty funny. Dan Liljenquist comes across to me as being arrogant. Why is Dan the only one that can get things done? Pretty much every politician is self absorbed. Why else would they run for office if they didn't think they were the best person for the job?

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    June 15, 2012 6:43 p.m.

    A vote for Hatch is a vote that you don't want change in USA. Hatch and H. Reid of Nevada have both been corrupted by power; I don't care what their religion is---both are attorneys who know nothing about numbers.

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    June 15, 2012 6:38 p.m.

    Senators have always kidded themselves that the word "senator" and the word "senile" come from the same root word structure. It is time to have confidence in the baby boomer generation (born between 1946 and 1964) and those who come after that time period as well. The GOP will NOT control the senate come November. We need energy and enthusiasm and a new generation of leaders. An elected Hatch will be very surprised at a very progressive administration of Romney who is in favor of health care for all----it is a conservative idea that all pay into system and pay their own way (Romney would do a very good job at increasing taxes to pay for debt and also reforming government-----which we need.)

  • Richard Smoker Provo, UT
    June 15, 2012 6:14 p.m.

    Dan is the man!

  • Wixom Bountiful, UT
    June 15, 2012 5:24 p.m.

    I didn't hear Sen. Hatch come off as a grumpy old man. I did think Sen. Liljenquist came off as young and defensive. I'll give Sen. Hatch the win.

    Understand that I'm no Sen. Hatch fan, but 2 years ago the tea party created a problem by unseating Sen. Bennett who did wonderful things for Utah. Sen. Lee has fallen way short of Sen. Bennett's accomplishments and even Sen. Hatch's. So who do we choose? I think it would be unwise to put another freshman senator in that can't/won't be able to perform. Sen. Liljenquists work in the Utah senate was over-rated. He was just slash and burn without careful thought and homework. He scares me.

    In 4 years perhaps Sen. Lee will be up to speed. Perhaps then or in 6 years Sen. Bennett would be willing to come back.

  • Lifelong Republican Orem, UT
    June 15, 2012 4:59 p.m.

    I'm a young republican and I'm voting for Hatch. Liljenquist is all rhetoric and gimmick and when Romney wins the presidency, we need Hatch in there and they will finally be able to get something done. We need Hatch now more than ever!

  • aghast SYRACUSE, UT
    June 15, 2012 4:44 p.m.

    I have admired some of the things that Senator Hatch has done and wish that he could just retire decently. I am not sure that Lindsey is the answer and I don't believe the Democrats even have a viable alternative. I have personally witnessed the "pork" that has been brought to Utah by the entire delegation the last 20 years. If we want to be self-sacrificing and lead the way against "pork barrel spending" send Lindquist back, but if he doesn't perform, or if he wants - say - more that two terms - send him packing.

  • Orem Parent Orem, UT
    June 15, 2012 4:15 p.m.

    Liljenquist lost all credibility with me when he tried to balance the state budget on the backs of our TEACHERS of all people.

    He did away with their retirement plan and now teaching has become an hourly job instead of one of the most important careers out there.

    Sorry Dan, you lose and I'm glad you will be out of our state legislature as well.

  • Andy Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 15, 2012 3:52 p.m.

    Are any of the first several posts to this story real??

    It sounds like a bunch of campaign homers for each guy trying to sway their boy. That is ridiculous.

    That being said, I'll be voting for Hatch becuse... well I don't know why, I'm just not a Liljenquist guy.

  • Hunt Spanish Fork, UT
    June 15, 2012 3:38 p.m.

    "I mean attacking Hatch for wanting to protect Utah's business interests? Come on really? If our senators aren't there to look out for Utah's interests - they were elected by Utahns after all - what are they there for?"

    That was not Liljenquist's point. There's nothing wrong with protecting Utah's business interests from things like over-regulation.

    There is something very wrong with Congress acting as an investment firm with Tax payer dollars. Congress has no business picking winners and losers. THAT was Liljenquist's point. Hatch apparently thinks the practice is perfectly acceptable unless of course its Democrat's doling out the funds.

    For those I falsely accused of being hired guns, I apologize, I can get a little worked up from time to time.

  • Hunt Spanish Fork, UT
    June 15, 2012 3:29 p.m.

    @Apricot Tree

    "Hunt: No hired guns. What a silly, desperate comment. I was a state delegate and never was contacted by the Hatch committee. Hatch won the debate, and will continue to win."

    I for one won't be baited into silly personal insults. That being said, I don't recall you being one of the first posters on this article so my statement hardly applies to you.

    Hatch most definitely has his campaign team (many who, funny enough, were delegates) working overtime in the blogosphere, nothing silly or desperate, just true.

    "...we should NEVER blame on one person only."

    Remind me again who it was that was blaming it all on one person? Hatch made that statement about himself, Dan Liljenquist only pointed out that he is part of the problem.

    So did Hatch work to help increase the national debt or work to reduce it? Putting forth a balanced budget amendment every few years while making little effort through his votes and influence to actually balance the budget is very telling of what we can expect from Hatch going forward. It's time to give someone else a chance.

  • Uncle Charles Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    June 15, 2012 3:03 p.m.

    @Fred: Where are your specifics? Pretty tough putting yourself on the line and detailing what positions you take and think are "getting things done", huh?

    Just like Hatch, nothing but generalities.

    Orrin Hatch is just an arrogant individual who has been so long in DC that he is brainwashed to the actual needs and desires of the citizens of this state. Hatch is not from Utah and has lied too many times to be forgiven. If Hatch is the only one who can keep Hill AFB from being closed then Hatch should never, ever retire. If Hatch is the only one who can do a good job as the Chair of the Finance commttee then he should never, ever retire (ASSUMING the Repubs take back the Senate).

    Hatch is a power-hungry as any other politician and is completely out of touch with reality. I've spoken with him many times over the past years and he clearly doesn't get it, speaks in soundbite and has nothing in depth to say when pressed for more than his puddle soundbite.

    There are hundreds of people in Utah who could do a better job than Hatch. Move back to PA please.

  • Fred33 KAYSVILLE, UT
    June 15, 2012 2:46 p.m.

    @ Uncle Charles

    I was a state delegate and checked out all the info sent by Dan Liljenquist. After watching the video that was sent to me by Dan's campaign I got the impression that Dan would say no to any legislation that wasn't ultra conservative. This was not what he was saying today during the debate. He said that he would work with Democrats. What Dan is going to show up in Washington D.C.? I am guessing he will only work with ultra conservatives. If that is what you want, go ahead and vote for Dan. I want someone that is a strong conservative that is willing to reach across the aisle to get things done.

  • Fred33 KAYSVILLE, UT
    June 15, 2012 2:34 p.m.

    @ Hunt

    I can guarantee you that I am not a hired gun for Hatch. I was a state delegate from Kaysville that did a lot of research on the candidates. I am sticking with Hatch.

  • UU32 Bountiful, UT
    June 15, 2012 2:10 p.m.

    It all comes down to who shows up at the primary. If the younger republicans can outnumber the Utah old guard - then Dan has a chance. I fear that the younger generation will be distracted and we will have a octogenarian falling asleep in the Senate.

  • Shimlau SAINT GEORGE, UT
    June 15, 2012 2:09 p.m.

    xert, I'm white, but not all that well off, and am very interested in what you say about trickle down econ. I want to know what your option is? Is it allow the feds to create all of the jobs? Is it cradle to grave support from the government? Is it big brother watching at all times? Just what is it?. I've seen that if the people aren't adequatley rewarded for their endeavors, they eventually give up and quit producing, then what?

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    June 15, 2012 1:49 p.m.

    Mr. Hatch did not have any new answers. He promised the same things that he's promised for 36 years, things that he has not yet delivered. Are we to assume that something will change this time?

    Mr. Hatch was a bully as he repeatedly interrupted Mr. Liljenquist. Is that what we want in the Senate? Each person was to be given equal amounts of time, but Mr. Hatch repeatedly used Mr. Liljenquist's time instead of waiting his turn.

    Mr. Hatch will have NO input in keeping Hill Air Force Base open. BRAC handles those decisions. BRAC was put in place to keep Senators from meddling in those military decisions.

    Mr. Hatch has been in office while MOST of the deficit has piled up. He has had no positive influence in reducing the size of government or in reducing the deficit.

    The Supreme Court will decide whether the HCA stays or goes, not Mr. Hatch. Mr. Hatch was there when the HCA was enacted. He had no influence then, and he has no influence now.

    Dan Liljenquiest was aggressive but polite. He has a sterling record and he is not a bully. My vote goes to Dan.

  • PeanutGallery Salt Lake City, UT
    June 15, 2012 1:47 p.m.

    In today's radio debate, Sen. Hatch was arrogant, condescending, and evasive . He frequently interrupted during Dan Liljenquist's allocated time, and also took extra time segments outside the format of the debate. Liljenquist was energetic, articulate, knowledgeable, and made a great case for why he deserves our vote. I was very impressed with Liljenquist.

    Re: Fred33: Hatch works with both sides to get LIBERAL things passed, but Liljenquist works with both sides to get CONSERVATIVE things passed. Liljenquist has demonstrated his ability to do precisely this by garnering unanimous support (all the Republicans and all the Democrats) on his pension and Medicare reform bills.

    Re: Apricot Tree: Actually, Liljenquist is EXACTLY the type of senator that American needs - one who didn't contribute to the problem and who has the skills and experience to fix it. Liljenquist is not blaming just one man for the debt, but he is stating that Hatch is PART of the cause. Near the end of this morning's debate, I was absolutely astounded when Hatch stated that he bears NO RESPONSIBILITY (‼) for any of our nation's deficits and debt. Wow! That statement alone is reason enough to vote against Hatch.

  • goatesnotes Kamas, UT
    June 15, 2012 1:42 p.m.

    I listened to the debate, after I sent in my absentee ballot on Monday. Debates do little to alter one's opinion. I voted to change Washington, not for more of the same old tired rhetoric ("I can save HAFB"). Frank Moss was using that line when Hatch unseated him!

    I like Liljenquist a lot more than I do not like the idea of an entitled 42-year Senate career politician, who says he will finally retire at age 84.

    That said, if Hatch is re-elected it will likely be the aged ones in Utah who side with him and put him back there for another unprecedented seventh six-year term. Do people understand that we have NEVER elected someone that old for statewide office in the history of the state of Utah? On that basis alone he should be retired by the voters.

    Last time I checked the seat belonged to Utah citizens, and they have the right to take it back and give it to someone else anytime they want. That time has come.

    Hatch's condescending tone, "Dan's a fine fella," just about puts me over the edge.

    Please consider voting for Dan Liljenquist.

  • iftheresanythingvirtuous Salt Lake City, UT
    June 15, 2012 1:35 p.m.

    The best part of the debate was the last question by Liljenquist: "Senator Hatch, are you at all responsible for the crushing debt now faced by future generations of Americans?"

    Hatch's answer was brief and telling-- "No."

    No?! Since 1980 he has voted "yes" 16 times to raise the debt ceiling. Those "yes" votes total up to $7.5 TRILLION! That is $25,000 per man, woman, and child in the USA. I don't know where Hatch lives, but In my world, voting "yes" is exactly the same as "being responsible."

    After today I am no longer in the "Retire Hatch" camp--I am in the "Fire Hatch" camp.

    It's time for Dan Liljenquist.

  • m072640 Orem, UT
    June 15, 2012 1:30 p.m.

    Hunt: I just want to clarify that I am definitely NOT hired guns. I have never worked for or even talked to a representative of the Hatch campaign. I haven't contributed time or financial resources to either candidate's campaign.

    I am a concerned citizen that is tired of empty rhetoric and altruistic platitudes from the Liljenquist campaign. I mean attacking Hatch for wanting to protect Utah's business interests? Come on really? If our senators aren't there to look out for Utah's interests - they were elected by Utahns after all - what are they there for?

    Liljenquist is just another hyper-partisan representative that when sent to Washington D.C. deadlocks congress so absolutely nothing gets done. The next four years are going to be critical in shaping America for decades to come. We need a senator like Hatch who has experience crossing the isle to bring together lawmakers from both political parties.

  • SilverManedCougar American Fork, UT
    June 15, 2012 1:29 p.m.

    Based on what I observed during 15 years in Washington DC as an employee of the House I believe Orrin would be far the more effective of these two. The challenger seems to buy the attack approach, and will soon find that it takes far more than that in the Senate to earn the respect and support of his compatriots, especially those not of his political party. Dan has had a promising initial political career, but Washington is not Salt Lake City! With some additional experience and tempering, he may be a good Senator in the future. He's not ready yet, in my opinion. During this crucial period when we face so many challenges, and during a time when the Senate is likely to be fairly evenly split between the parties, Utah would do well to send our experienced Senior Senator back for another term! That is who I will be voting for.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 15, 2012 1:29 p.m.

    Would 5 or 10 TV debates between the two candidates have resulted in changing any of the voter's minds? Yeah, maybe a few. A better question might be which candidate was smart enough to figure that out and didn't accept the dare?

    Liljenquist can best be described as not yet ready for prime time.

  • Go Big Blue!!! Bountiful, UT
    June 15, 2012 1:28 p.m.

    As for me and my house we will take experience and seniority. Hatch by a landslide.

  • Furry1993 Clearfield, UT
    June 15, 2012 1:25 p.m.

    I don't want either of them. However, after investigating closely investigating their records, their rhetoric and their positions, I find that I don't want Hatch a lot less than I don't want Liljenquist. Hatch is the less-worse of the two of them. Therefore I will be voting for Hatch in the primary. I have no idea yet about what I will do in the general election -- that will take a lot more study.

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    June 15, 2012 1:21 p.m.

    It's amazing that, in an attempt to right things, we'll get rid of our most influential voice in DC. Couple Hatch chairing the Finance Committee and Romney in the White House and the old DC would change in a hurry. Hopefully Utahns will prove smarter than the Tea Party far right and make the right choice.

  • nick Provo, UT
    June 15, 2012 1:17 p.m.

    I worked on Capitol Hill in DC for eight years and in politics for a total of 18 years. Dan Liljenquist was the clear winner of the debate today. It's wise of Orrin to only have one debate. I worked on Orrin's campaign as a volunteer in 1975 and have voted for him ever since. He is only a shadow of his former self. He is really slowing down. It's time for a change. Dan Liljenquist is an excellent replacement. We are very fortunate that he decided to run this time, despite Hatch's seniority and hugh money advantage.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    June 15, 2012 1:05 p.m.

    Hatch by a mile.

  • Carson Provo, UT
    June 15, 2012 12:57 p.m.

    Wake up Utah, It's time for Hatch to go!

  • xert Santa Monica, CA
    June 15, 2012 12:54 p.m.

    There is a stalemate in Washington and unless something is done to break this, we may be doomed as a nation. Orin Hatch is no favorite of mine, but I have seen him reach across to the smarter party and I remember a magazine cover with he and Teddy Kennedy posing with babies in their arms in bipartisan support for mothers. Look, Obama is going to be our President for another four years and we need jobs in this country. Trickle down economics is a flat out myth and anyone who tries to tell you differently is white and fairly well off. We need a lot of Dems elected, and experienced Republicans who know how to compromise. Hatch has proven he can do this (at times). President Obama will get a lot done, with or without compromise in Washington--as he has done this term, but if Congress can't right it's ship, it might as well stay on recess for the immediate future.

  • Apricot Tree Brigham City, UT
    June 15, 2012 12:48 p.m.

    Hunt: No hired guns. What a silly, desperate comment. I was a state delegate and never was contacted by the Hatch committee. Hatch won the debate, and will continue to win.

    McKay: Silly gimmicks are Liljenquist's forte. Liljenquist, together with gimmicks, a lack of U.S. government experience and empty promises, is NOT what America needs right now. Try to think of the big picture, rather than blaming the woes of the government on one man. With so many Presidents, and a continual downfall of the economy and an increase of debt since the beginning, we should NEVER blame on one person only. Look at how hard Hatch has been working, and then consider timing. I will be voting for Hatch.

  • Uncle Charles Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    June 15, 2012 12:43 p.m.

    @Fred33 proclaims: "Hatch has shown that he can work with Democrats and Republicans to get things done."

    Please, give us some specifics. Somehow I think that Conservatives will have a different definition of what we want "done" verses the voting record of Hatch.

    Hatch has sufficiently scared the old folks in Utah and they feel his pain so they are voting for him. They don't want to feel that they are being put out to pasture either.

    @Hunt: I agree!

    Hatch is completely scared to a TV debate with Dan because he knows he will come off as a grumpy old man who has nothing to offer. Fred, what's Hatch's plan? Support Romney? Be chair of the Finance committee? One more term? What are the fine points of the Hatch plan?

    You can't give it because it doesn't exist.

  • Fitz Murray, UT
    June 15, 2012 12:36 p.m.

    I, like many others, support the concept of term limits. Hatch, when he ran the very first time, said he would only serve two terms. He is now running for the seventh. He has been there too long and has forgotten whom he serves. Hatch needs to retire.

    If the term limit argument is not enough, you can look at his voting record over the last ten years. His votes show a clear pattern of significantly diminishing our rights under the 4th, 5th, 6th and 14th Amendments to the US Constitution. Look at the bills he has voted for, like the Patriot Act (with renewals and expansions), TSA (intrusive searches and virtual strip searches), and last December the NDAA (where a US citizen can be detained without charges, counsel, or communication with anyone). And this is the short version of Hatch's upholding the Constitution.

    You want one more reason? Hatch is in his mid 70s. This is a 6 year term. Look at some of the past senators that stayed to long. They never disclosed their health and they were absent alot because of poor health. Has Hatch been straight with us regarding his health?

    Hatch needs to retire.

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    June 15, 2012 12:35 p.m.

    Finally about fifty minutes debate - during the working day.

    Liljenquist certainly didn’t make Hatch
    “responsible for everything wrong with the country”; he described Hatch as being typical of a whole generation of congressmen (Republican as well as Democrat) that had together created the USA's unprecedented debt. He opposed partisanship that was hypocritical, for example when Republicans like Hatch are quick to accuse Democrats for the same things that Republicans do, notably creating unsustainable debt. He called for a new generation of congressmen that would do something substantive and not just "talk a good game" when elections were imminent.

    While I think Hatch needs to go this time, I must say I am uneasy about Dan’s talk of “broadening the tax base”, his Palinesque idea that “everyone should pay something”
    At least if applied to income taxes. Everyone DOES pay taxes, including federal taxes, already. Not enough specifics from either candidate on reducing spending, other than repealing “Obamacare”.

    Both said nothing about being militarily over-extended or supporting moves to shut down redundant / picayune federal bureaucracies. Dan was better, I thought, than Orrin on Illegal immigration though.

  • Robb C Salt Lake City, UT
    June 15, 2012 12:31 p.m.

    I have been back and forth about Senator Hatch. I wrote a letter to the editor opposing him earlier this year but then ended up favoring him in the caucus because I was disappointed to see all his opponents touting that they are farther right than Hatch. Farther right than Hatch? That's all we need! I'm not looking for another Mike Lee.

    However, in the end I decided it was more important to send a message that a lifetime in office is unacceptable. I have already sent in my ballot, voting for Liljenquist. I do think the debate confirmed that he has MUCH more energy at this point in life and is a competent replacement for Hatch.

  • Hunt Spanish Fork, UT
    June 15, 2012 12:11 p.m.

    Looks like Hatch's Hired guns got there comments in early in an attempt to sway opinion on this message board.

    Hatch was tap dancing the entire debate. He never addressed the issue of how a 16 trillion dollar unfunded liability is good fiscal party and he lost his temper when he was called to the carpet over his fear mongering over the "fantasy" possible closure of Hill AFB. He drummed the issue up and he is the only candidate running for Congress in Utah even talking about it.
    Utah voters need to open up there eyes to these tactics and realize that a vote for Hatch is a vote for the establishment that loves there big pork barrel spending ways.

  • Fred33 KAYSVILLE, UT
    June 15, 2012 11:58 a.m.

    Sorry guys, but I listened to the debate and Dan Liljenquist definitely did not win. He kept spouting off the same talking points about how the current congress has bankrupted our future. Fine. Tell us your plan. I didn't hear a plan. Hatch has shown that he can work with Democrats and Republicans to get things done. The reality is that Dan and Hatch are for the same things. Dan is just trying to differentiate himself by claiming he is not a Washington insider. The new blood argument does not work for me. I think Hatch's experience is very important. I will be voting for Orrin Hatch on June 26th.

  • TOO Sanpete, UT
    June 15, 2012 11:56 a.m.

    Go big Dan!

  • Conservative Voice RIVERTON, UT
    June 15, 2012 11:33 a.m.

    It's apparent why Orrin Hatch didn't want to debate on Prime-Time. He sounded tired and cranky.

    Dan on the other hand sounded energetic and experienced with a complete understanding of the issues.

    My vote will go to Dan!

  • mckay7474 Centerville, UT
    June 15, 2012 11:09 a.m.

    I can see Orrin Hatch has paid for his talking points to get out there...Dan did NOT sound like a spoiled child. Hatch couldn't finish his sentences and what was up with the analogy with jumping down in the hole? Dan was very articulate and soundly won the debate. Sad that it was not on TV but as long as Hatch is down in the hole, he will continue with his silly gimmicks...Hopefully, the citizens of Utah will see through them.

  • MatthewBehun PROVO, UT
    June 15, 2012 11:08 a.m.

    Dan Liljenquist showed that he is infinitely more qualified than Senator Hatch. If this was Hatch's second term they might have had a more even debate but this morning Hatch dodged questions, explained himself poorly and refused to be accountable for ANY of the debt. Insanity. It's time for Dan Liljenquist.

  • Utah_1 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 15, 2012 10:52 a.m.

    Last Utah General Legislative Session for 2011, I remember seeing bill after bill sponsored by Sen. Dan Liljenquist pass the house. I was amazed at the respect he and the bills had. I was amazed at how both republicans and democrats voted for them.

    For example, his 2011 SB 180 Medicaid Reform bill passed both houses with no votes against it from either party and was signed by the Governor.

    With at least 7 bills, both the house and senate, both republicans and democrats all voted for the reforms Senator Dan Liljenquist proposed. In all, 9 of his bills were signed by the Governor.

    We need that in Washington DC. These are the same areas that are bankrupting our nation. Again, we need Dan Liljenquist in Washington DC. Yes, we have a US Senator with 35 years of seniority, but remember that in 2011, Senator Dan Liljenquist was still in his first 4 year term. He did it without seniority.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    June 15, 2012 10:40 a.m.

    Liljenquist came across as the spoiled child in the debate. Hatch came across as the kindly but firm grandpa trying to teach the spoiled child about life. Hatch won hands down. All Liljenquist can do is to continually spout the FreedomWorks talking points, which are a misrepresentation of Hatch's record. I really liked how Hatch took Liljenquist to task several times. Liljenquist seemed a bit flustered always falling back on the talking points.

  • m072640 Orem, UT
    June 15, 2012 10:25 a.m.

    All I heard from Liljenquist during the debate was the same empty rhetoric and attacks he has used throughout the campaign. It seems he blames Hatch for everything that is wrong with the country - ridiculous. He's low on ideas and failed to outline his vision for the state of Utah or the country.

    I will be voting for Hatch on the 26th. We need someone who can get things done by reaching across the isle and working with good democrats and republicans who are dedicated to improving the country. His experience and reputation in the Senate make him ideal for this role - especially at the head of the finance committee.