in 1940 Nazi's thought nothing of gunning down Jews into open pits. The
Nazi mindset is alive and well with ISIS and I think at the end of the day this
Vegas killer was part of ISIS. ISIS has already claimed him. It takes a darkness
of the mind so remote and incomprehensible to murder people from a hotel window
-- people you don't know or care to know. We try to explain why he did what
he did but we fail -- there are no rational answers anymore than trying to
explain the holocost of the Jews by the Nazi's. Suffice to say it's
not worth trying to understand but it is worth being prepared to save yourself
and your family going forward. This won't be the last act of mass violence
as I suspect ISIS will watch and learn from this event and plan another similar.
If you want to increase your chances of safety then arm yourself first of all
and be efficient with a gun. Second say clear of big crowds -- this is
impossible of course but at least limit what you do in crowds. Finally just
error on the side of safety in everything you do. At the end of the day there is
no 100% safe place to hide but being prepared to defend yourself is a pretty
@worfYou initially claimed..."Media is already
blaming Trump."When asked for sources, you replied..."Do the homework! I'm not going to mention it at this time. "Translation: You have absolutely zero evidence that the "media
blamed Trump" for anything relating to this shooting.That's
ironic, because Trump supporter Pat Roberston specifically blamed Trump critics
for the shooting.
@one vote "Why does one law abiding citizen need enough weapons, including
automated weapons, to arm a well regulated militia?"Because
he/she can. I own quite a few weapons myself. I've never used
them except to deter a few would-be burglars from my home.There are
lots and lots and lots of high powered, almost military grade weapons owned by
private citizens in this country. While even one incident like what happened in
Vegas is too many, the number of occurrences vs ownership is very, very low.Seems to me that liberals, or those who vote/support liberals are the
only ones perpetrating any violence against folks these days.I would
prefer every person in the country who isn't a felon to own, be trained
with, and carry a gun. The country of Switzerland requires it. The
scum who would prey on others, but who care about dying would certainly think
twice about committing a crime. And those who are intent on dying and taking as
many as they can with them will have fewer victims. I know all of
the gun grabbers will never understand this, but an armed and trained public
would be much safer. I just would be.
To "one vote" maybe he was a collector.Also, did you know
that guns can be fun to just go and shoot? Guns don't have to be used only
for hunting.There are sports that involve guns that have nothing to
do with killing anything. For instance, you have the winter biathlon where a
person cross country skis then shoots at targets. You also have the skeet and
trap shooting sports.However, since we can't talk to him now
and we don't if he was just a gun collector, a hunter, or a collector.However, you completely ignored the question I posed to you. Why are
you asking why he collects things? Haven't you ever had a collection? Do
you not have a music library or video library?
To"redshirt". If a person is buying many attack style weapons designed
to kill people and used in military not for hunting, their rights can be
infringed and regulated unless they are members of a well regulated militia. One
person does not make a militia.
To "wide_awake" you can't legally buy a kit that makes a gun fully
automatic. There are legal kits that make it easier to fire fast, but not fully
automatic.To "one vote" why do some people need many cats
and pets? Why do some people need as many cars as a small dealership? Why do
some people have as many books as a library? Why do some people have as many
movies as Netflix?Are you seriously asking why some people collect
To Redshirt:"....when he purchased the weapons they were not
fully automatic. He modified them to make them fully automatic. "Sure, conversion kits are readily available at gun shows to turn
semi-automatic rifles or pistols into fully auto killing machines. No questions
asked, just how the NRA likes it.
Why does one law abiding citizen need enough weapons, including automated
weapons, to arm a well regulated militia?
To "wide_awake" when he purchased the weapons they were not fully
automatic. He modified them to make them fully automatic. He probably got the
instructions off the internet. Just like the people who make illegal drugs do
or like people who make explosive devices.To "GingerMarshall
" if you want to restrict the 2nd Amendment to muzzle loaders, then can we
restrict the freedom of press to printed newspapers only. If we limit freedoms
to the technology available at the time of the constitution, then we must be
fair to all. That means the press should be restricted on the internet, TV,
radio, and anything else that didn't exist 250 years ago.
Hurry! The NRA wants to sell you more guns! That's the answer to every
problem! Guns for everyone!
"But lets be really honest, none of the laws out there being debated right
now would have stopped this incident. "I'll tell you what
will dramatically decrease the number of weapons being sold into our society:
require gun manufacturers to post bond to cover funeral and medical expenses of
LOU Montana & silo,Do the homework! I'm not going to
mention it at this time. Divisiveness? After insulting comments
toward successful people, and our current president?
In Utah I am a liberal. Elsewhere I would probably be called a moderate. Comments in the forum range from repeal the 2nd Amendment to the 2nd A, allows
individuals to own assault rifles. Both arguments are ridiculous. Reason is
somewhere between the two.Advocates for unfetter access to guns always
cite " the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed" from the 2nd A. They always omit, "A well regulated Militia,
being necessary to the security of a free State." "Well regulated
Militia" does not mean a single individual should be able to own 42 guns
including assault weapons.Since "guns don't kill people; people
do," is used to justify private ownership of assault, wouldn't it also
be true that nuclear weapons don't kill, people do? Specious argument.Pres. Trump proclaims, "Now is not the time to discuss gun control."
When is the time? Never in the minds of NRA adherents. Instead, let's
ask the loved ones of the victims,
At the Battle of Concord 700 British troops came upon 77 militiamen.Several British volleys were unleashed, when the smoke cleared 8 militiamen
lay dead, 9 were wounded, 1 Redcoat was injured.700 British troops
fired on 77 militiamen... and there were only 17 casualties.Last
night, one man created nearly 600 casualties in a roughly equal space of
time.The second amendment was not created with such firepower in
mind. After Sandy Hook we, as a nation, decided we loved guns more
than children and we lost any possible claim that America is intrinsically
good.We, as a nation, accepted the lie that muzzle loaders are the
unquestioned equivalent of AK-47s. We, as a nation, accepted the lie
that gun violence can't be stopped because the Second Amendment allows
everyone to own any gun they want.
@ConservativeUtahisBest:"This type of gun has been banned from
the US for years now."Uh... The gun is legal. Sez so in the US
Constitution's 2nd Amendment. Here it is in pertinent part, in case
you've forgotten:"... the right of the people to keep and
bear arms shall not be infringed."
@wide_awake: "how is it that the shooter -- or anyone, for that matter --
can so easily get their hands on fully automatic weapons of war?" It is not easy to LEGALLY get your hands on Class III firearms (machine guns,
suppressors, etc.) You must go through a background check. You must have
approval from your local Chief Law Enforcement Officer. You must make
application to BATFE, including the previous approvals, include a $200 tax
stamp fee . . . . . . and wait. It usually takes 5 or 6 months to be processed.
When the BATFE approval is received, you must again go through a background
check to make sure you are still not a prohibited possessor. Only then can you
take possession of your firearm.Oh, and don't forget, a LEGAL
"fully automatic weapon of war" is not cheap. They can cost as much as
$25,000 or more, so that takes "Joe average" out of the running. Now ILLEGAL machine guns are another story . . . . . but we already have
laws prohibiting them. Violations are punishable by up to 10 years in federal
prison and forfeiture of all devices or firearms in violation, and the
individual's right to own or possess firearms in the future.
I want to know WHY:I have to have a background checks, fill
out forms, have my name in a databases, and have limits on the
number of Sudafed cold tablets I can buy -- BUT no one
needs to all that to buy M-15s, AK-47s and THOUSANDS of high power ammo
rounds.[FYI -- Do not give me the excuse of assault rifles being
used for 'deer hunting' -- M-16s and AK-47s were designed specifically
for hunting people, NOT deer]
"No sensible "liberal" is proposing eliminating the Second
Amendment", one old man.And yet this is what liberal
commentators are saying in this thread today, Thank you old man, they are not
to Redshirt, who asks:"So tell us liberals, outside of banning
all guns, how could this have been prevented? You have a person with a squeaky
clean record buying guns over a long period of time."Well
Redshirt, how is it that the shooter -- or anyone, for that matter -- can so
easily get their hands on fully automatic weapons of war? Is that ok? Is that
normal? If so, then why stop there? Why not enable anyone to buy
whichever weapon of war they want, Stinger missles or AGM-114 Hellfire
anti-armor missles? The Bill of Rights doesn't explictly restrict our
rights to such weapons of war, right, so why not permit anything/everything?
To "airnaut " the guy was able to purchase the guns the same way you
can. He went to the store, filled out the paperwork, waited until the system
showed that he had a clean record then paid for his purchase.The
problem is that your ilk wants to make buying guns harder. In this case, and so
many others, the more restrictive rules and more stringent standards would have
done nothing to prevent the sale of the guns. This was a person with a
relatively clean criminal history, and nothing that would have flagged him for
anything.So tell us liberals, outside of banning all guns, how could
this have been prevented? You have a person with a squeaky clean record buying
guns over a long period of time.
I am a gun owner. I am also in favor of reasonable laws to restrict weapons
from those who shouldn't have them. But lets be really honest, none of
the laws out there being debated right now would have stopped this incident.
None. The man had no criminal or mental health history. He didn't use
armor piercing bullets. No silencer. Not even a waiting period would have
caught this guy.The one law that probably was broken is it is likely
this guy got an illegal kit to convert his semi-auto weapons to full auto. And
that is one area current enforcement needs to be focused right now - figuring
out his source for the likely kits he used.I wish there had been
some safety net we could have caught this guy with. But nothing really on the
books today, or proposed would have changed this much. And lastly, no gung-ho
John Wayne gun packing wanna-be rambo had any effect on this either. So lets
not pretend that even if all concert goers were packing, it would have changed
this. Let's chill on the partisan talking points. Let's
not quote irresponsible talk radio heads. This was not a simple incident you
can easily leverage to any political agenda.
I fail to see how disarming law-abiding citizens will better protect them from
the dangers and threats posed by those who would flout the law.Also,
why is the NRA the only organization in America that gets blamed for the acts
none of its members commit?
"Guns are not the problem. Culture is. It is the result of over four decades
of cheapened life, starting with Roe v Wade, and highlighted with removing God
from public life."What about Canada? Australia? Japan? Germany?
France? Norway? Sweden? Those are pretty pro-choice, less-religious places than
us (or close to the US for both) but their gun related homicide rates are
significantly lower.Plus US gun-related homicide rates overall (mass
shootings have increased but they're a smaller portion of the ~10k a year)
have been dropping the last two decades as we're getting more non-religious
(or at least less associated with organized religion) so that doesn't
really match up here either.
" I have no desire to see the second amendment repealed, but talking about
common sense solutions to the increased number of people being killed or wounded
by civilians with high powered weapons is long over due."I
won't, but I could explain how to turn a legal assault rifle into an
illegal fully automatic assault rifle and it takes a few minutes to do,
it's simple. That's the difference between legal and illegal.Move the tech down to a hand gun, not as common knowledge as an assault
rifle, but I could explain how to do the same to a hand gun, probably about 8
minutes instead of 3 minutes.Are we still talking about creating
more rules for murders and terrorists to follow - like that will stop them?When a person decides to kill a lot of people, it's virtually
impossible to stop that thought process. They'll hijack planes and fly
them into buildings, on the day of Sandy Hook in China a man went into a school
with a knife and had the same tragic outcome, they'll use trucks,
they'll use anything. Mainstream religions object to this but offshoots
from any religion serve as a scapegoat - really some people are just nuts.Sorry for the lack of hope - we can stop it!
Let us put the responsibility where the responsibility lies for this horrific
act and that is the gunman.Also this is not the President's
fault and this is not the time to turn this tragic event into political points
by either side.
wrz: immigrants have nothing to do with the shooting! Enough with
the hate and division!
@Brave Sir Robin - "Ever been to England? Ireland? Norway? Sweden? Finland?
All countries that have a ban on guns. And not a single one of them is a
dictatorship, or a police state."Pretty weak comeback Robin.
Yes, with the exception of Finland, I've been to those countries.
Significant crime and terrorism violence against the defenseless. Haven't
you been paying attention to world events? Dictatorships? Wait
for it. Its coming! Guess what group of people who refuse to
integrate are taking over while the leaders of these countries fiddle? When they
do dictatorships will seem a little tame.Again, while I understand
the desire to be at peace (we all do), thinking like yours will lead to more
problems, not solutions. Should someone break into your home I hope the rocks
and sticks you must keep in your closet will be enough to repel the intruder(s).
@ Spalding55"Passing and enforcing serious firearm control and
safety laws may not stop all incidents, but it’s a start."Let me modify your statement, if I may. "Passing and enforcing
serious firearm control and safety laws may not instill a totalitarian
government, but it’s a start."
Trump speech about this massacre mentioned "God" 6 times, and
mention "guns" ZERO.I essences saying - this is God's
problem to fix.Not his, Not the GOP, Not Amarica's.Sick!
It's time to have the conversation.
@ Thomas Jefferson"I mean if 20 dead kids and 6 dead teachers in
Sandy Hook wasn't enough for us to do something then nothing is ever going
to happen which will shock our conscience to the point of actually addressing
our gun violence problem."Gun-control advocates are notorious at
simplifying the issue - 'just ban guns and everything will be fine.'
And the attitude that conservatives are heartless is just another
oversimplification. The problem is more rooted in reality than in your fantasy
world where no guns exist. It's not that the right doesn't care. The
fact of the matter is that liberals' solution to ban guns or severely
restrict them is a solution that cannot and will not ever stop these mass
shootings or any shootings for that matter (well, it might stop defensive
"good guy" shootings). And anyone who refuses to instill a solution that
simply would not work is labeled "hateful." And
Hillary's war on "silencers" is just too much to bare. I wish they
made a silencer that would fit over her mouth.
Since we as a nation won't enact sensible gun laws, I would like to make
another suggestion. Clearly people who commit mass murders are, in
part, doing if for attention---"I'll show them," thinking.
Those who've studied the motives of terrorists have identified
"fame" as a motivating factor. So, let's deprive them
of the attention. There should be at least a 60-day moratorium on news sources
reporting the perpetrator's name, and maybe a permanent ban on showing a
photo or any manifesto/message he/she leaves behind, (unless law enforcement
needs publicity to aid in the investigation). Instead, let us honor the
victims. Now, because of the First Amendment the reporting ban
would have to be voluntary. Would news organizations be willing to give
it a try? They could still report on the incidentals of the perpetrator--sex,
age, occupation, place of residence etc.
I'm tired of "thoughts and prayers" for these horrible incidents.
I don't think that God would want us to merely offer empty prayers, but
take action instead of continuing to do nothing. Someone tell me why any
civilian needs to have the type of weapons that apparently were used here. What
is wrong with some sensible controls on the types of weapons that civilians may
possess? When we take no action except praying over the dead and wounded, they
are meaningless gestures.
It's so predictable, every time there's a tragedy, before the bodies
are even cold, and well before all the facts are known, something, something,
anything needs to be banned.Let's take away people's
freedoms... before anyone even knows what happened.Hey, I have an
idea, why doesn't everyone calm down, wait for the facts, and go from
there?Emotions are a terrible thing to base policy on.I
would call this political opportunism, but.... wait, I would.
Nobody is trying to ban guns, but why can't we have an intelligent
discussion about whether the average citizen really needs to have access to
military grade weapons and ammunition where hundreds of people can be killed or
injured in a few minutes? I have no desire to see the second amendment
repealed, but talking about common sense solutions to the increased number of
people being killed or wounded by civilians with high powered weapons is long
It is amazing how so many people suddenly have solutions to prevent a repeat of
this senseless killing spree.However, with only the initial news
reports to go on, and those are usually wrong, all of these "solutions"
are utterly worthless.Let's see what the facts are.Also, it is amazing that within a few hours the FBI can totaly rule out any
terrorist connection, but after a year they are still trying to find a foreign
connection to Trump's campaign.Pray for the victims and their
families, and wait for facts before demanding one sort of solution or another.
I'm a liberal.I owe several guns.So this - "liberals
want to take away your guns" argument is just a fake, phony ruse to spin
what has happened here.Now -- I do want one of you 2nd
amendment guns and glory conservatives to please explain how or why someone can
purchase 10+ assault rifles, a fully automatic machine gun, Hundreds and
THOUSANDS of rounds of ammo .... without any questions or accountability? How/Why - please?
@Thid "When these horrible things happen, its always good guys WITH guns
who stop bad guys with guns! Since it is impossible to keep guns out of the
hands of bad guys, I will keep my guns because a gun in my hand is always better
and more effective than a cop on the phone for protecting my family from bad
guys with guns! I refuse to be a defenseless victim like liberals
demand!"I am not a liberal so I can't speak for them. With
my comment I was not advocating for gun confiscation or doing away with the 2nd
amendment. I only wish to point out things are out of hand. This poses a major
threat to commercial activity. Who will even want to go out in public if things
continue like this? We have to figure something out. What will it be? It won't be having everybody pack a firearm.
It’s truly painful to read the articles of this horrible event! @ Neece: Repealing the 2nd Amendment isn't the answer. Most people who
are concealed weapons holders are carrying for their own protection.What needs to be done? Look at the number of shooting events, Las Vegas
concert, Tennessee church, Charleston Church, Orlando nightclub, Aurora Colorado
movie Theatre, San Bernardino workplace Christmas party, Sandy Hook, Virginia
Tech. The list is getting endless. continuing the current path isn’t
working obviously. Do hunters or anyone need an automatic rifle or a
semi-automatic rifle that can be converted in less than 10 minutes?Passing and enforcing serious firearm control and safety laws may not stop all
incidents, but it’s a start.For those who feel that carrying a
concealed weapon makes them safe, how would they be protected from someone
shooting hundreds of rounds from the 32nd floor.Recently I visited
Victoria and Vancouver. I was amazed at the number of people walking around well
into the night seemingly without any concerns for safety, even in dark lit
streets. Then I remembered their gun restrictions and I felt safer.
Worf; enough of the lies! Not one channel has said a word about blaming anyone
other than the shooter.Stop the hate and division!
@worf"Media is already blaming Trump."Really?
The entire media is blaming Trump? How about citing some specific
news articles where Trump is being blamed. Not facebook posts, not blogs, not
op-eds, but specific new articles from the 'media' where Trump is
explicitly being blamed for this incident.
2nd try@thidThe fact is, on a per capita basis, Chicago
is not the city with the highest homicide rate in the U.S. New Orleans,
Detroit, St. Louis, Baltimore and several other cities have higher murder rates
per capita. And, as military mom pointed out, enforcement of gun
laws is harder when neighbor states have lax gun laws. Though Illinois ranks in
the top 10 for stricter gun laws, neighboring states Missouri and Kentucky are
in the top 10 for least restrictive gun laws.
@common sense in Idaho:"What is happening to our
country?"We insist on letting in immigrants from certain
countries. Maybe folks will start listening to President Trump when
he insists we keep people from these countries out of the US.
@ Vanceone -Wow what an ignorant statement! Parties ie: Democrats or
Republicans, conservatives, Liberal.... what? So I am less likely to shoot
someone because I am what? Where do you get this stuff?
Very sick!Media is already blaming Trump.
@ common sense in Idaho"Just read the comments here in this
blog. Everything from abolish the 2nd Amendment to let's get more
guns."I'm assuming your wrote that to show the wide
spectrum of opinions from the far left to the far right. I've read every
comment posted here up till yours. The funny thing about your comment is that I
read, "abolish the 2nd Amendment." And that's from the left.I also read, "let's get more guns." But that is also coming
from the left. I have yet to hear that from any right-leaning
commenter on this sight. That is just a strawman argument the left uses to
vilify those who do not want gun control. I'm all for the 2nd Amendment.
I'm a gun owner. I am fairly conservative. Yet I - and every other
conservative I've known or have even listened to or read - does not think
the answer to mass killings is that everyone should have absolute unfettered
access to guns. Seek the truth - dismiss the rhetoric.
@Surf is Up"With all due respect-- you sir, and people who think
like you are the biggest threat to a free republic. Disabling the population is
the first thing that needs to happen in order for dictators and a police state
to take over; and don't be so naive as to think that we are so enlightened
these days-- that it can never happen again. Yes it can."Ever
been to England? Ireland? Norway? Sweden? Finland?All countries that
have a ban on guns. And not a single one of them is a dictatorship, or a police
"You can't spend or defend what happened in Las Vegas"Nobody has defended this at all.As for owning a gun, in Nice the
truck driver who couldn't own a gun was stopped by a gun, that was
heroic.The problem is the statistics here - put a bunch of people in
an are where nobody is allowed to have a gun, and one guy sneaks a gun in, they
are sitting ducks. try the same in the state of Israel and it is homicide
rather than a massacre because the gunman is shot moments after opening fire.There are arguments on both sides - personally I think that the average
person is safe and sane, therefore I'd feel more comfortable with rule
followers being armed than only the rule breakers being armed.
All you folks that want guns banned need to remember that a firearm is an
inanimate object that only works when certain functions are done in order. Same
as with a motor vehicle or knife. Both of which have been used lately in other
places to inflict harm.It is the person operating the firearm that
is to blame.Whatever problems or gripes or nutcase ideas the shooter
had, died with him.We need to find out what made him tick. Banning the firearms won't solve the problem.I own a
few firearms and I'm not going to go out and inflict harm on anyone, unless
that is the last resort option I'm faced with. The number I own is totally
immaterial. Whether this shooter had one weapon or twenty, he can
only use one at a time. The fact that he used one to inflict this damage to
people is bad enough. IF he used more, that doesn't make it any worse.This says more about the mental health of America and what is happening
in our country. The divides are causing the problem. People are angry for
whatever reason. We need to get to the root causes of the anger. And it
isn't Confederate statues.
Most people are not calling for a complete ban of guns. Stop making it an
all-or-nothing argument. What most are asking for are reasonable limitations and
checks to keep weapons from people who have no business owning them. The NRA, and its like, would love to spin this argument as "they want to
take away our guns." Why? To increase their profits. They want people to
think that they need to stock up on more guns and ammunition before the
"libtards" or the "snowflakes" take away their ability to buy
them. All the while, they're able to reap the profits and nothing changes.
Thid Barker - Victor, IDOct. 2, 2017 8:30 a.m.As bad as this
is, at least 240 people have been shot dead in Chicago since January! A city
with very strict gun control laws! It is a myth that gun control laws prevent
these attacks!======= The difference is Chicago was a
one for one killing ratio.Bad and not acceptable and I'm not
defending it at all.ButIn Las Vegas, it was one for 400
ratio.Can you even imagine if Chicago's240 killers each shot or
killed 400 at a time like this?You can't spend or defend what
happened in Las Vegas Thid.You just can not....
When these horrible things happen, its always good guys WITH guns who stop bad
guys with guns! Since it is impossible to keep guns out of the hands of bad
guys, I will keep my guns because a gun in my hand is always better and more
effective than a cop on the phone for protecting my family from bad guys with
guns! I refuse to be a defenseless victim like liberals demand!
@ Sir RobinI am afraid sir it is you that is uninformed. Read the
statistics. I really do hate to tell you however all my weapons have never left
my room by themselves. When I say it is people who kill people that is a true
statement. The guns are only the means. Statistics also prove that cities with
strict gun control are some of the most violent with gun killings/shootings...
and It isn't the normal John Q. Citizen that is doing it. It is the
Criminals! So should we take away everything that might hurt someone just
because "Wack - Jobs" are doing this?
Any good arguments for owning a machine gun?crickets...crickets...crickets...
If I was a deranged criminal intent on causing massive pain and injury by
planning a violent mass shooting, odds are I'm not going to care about what
the current laws are but rather I'd do whatever i could to commit my evil
deeds.The crowd saying "we need to have better rules" are
just simply not embracing reality - these people don't care about rules, if
they did they wouldn't be murdering other people.
It's amazing how many people crawl out of the woodworks when a tragedy like
this happens and start spewing their anti-Constitutional ban guns agenda. Gun
ownership is legal and a Constitutional right and NOTHING you can do or say will
change that. Gun control is nothing more than removing that right from
responsible gun owning Americans. Statistic show that here in America more lives
are saved by good people with guns than lunatics hell bent on killing people.
The shooter in todays tragedy used fully automatic firearms which are BANNED and
against the law in the U.S., which proves that criminals will obtain the weapons
they want and kill people regardless of any laws or "control" over
weapons. Say a prayer for the victims and their families, condemn the shooter
and mourn the loss of morality in our country...but don't advocate to
remove my right to defend myself and my family.
No sensible "liberal" is proposing eliminating the Second Amendment.
But what is needed is some common sense restrictions on military grade weapons
and ammo. There is a proposal in Congress right now -- sponsored by NRA among
others -- to allow such things as armor piercing ammunition to be sold in
civilian gun stores.Why? How can any sane person try to justify
such things? As for trump's speech this morning, we can give
credit to his speech writers. But I was simply nauseated by donald's
invocation of God's name in his comments. Those words coming from the
mouth of man with such an ugly, completely unChristian man is disgusting.But NO, we are NOT advocating elimination of the Second Amendment.
However, within the bounds of the amendment, there ARE many things that could be
done to help ensure our safety without infringing on rights of any responsible
gun owners. It can be done! It MUST be done!Make
America Sane (and Safe) Again
"It's long past time to repeal the 2nd Amendment." What about the
calls against the first amendment, the fourth, the 13th. Really, the tyrants
know no bounds for removing the constitution. One piece at a time.
Evil continue to walk amongst us. I pray for the survivors, and the families of
those who lost loved ones.@Brave Sir Robin "It's long past
time to repeal the 2nd Amendment...."With all due respect-- you
sir, and people who think like you are the biggest threat to a free republic.
Disabling the population is the first thing that needs to happen in order for
dictators and a police state to take over; and don't be so naive as to
think that we are so enlightened these days-- that it can never happen again.
Yes it can. Guns are not the problem. Culture is. It is the result
of over four decades of cheapened life, starting with Roe v Wade, and
highlighted with removing God from public life.True, this maniac
shouldn't have had these weapons, but as we've seen in recent months
we apparently must now consider banning cars, moving vans, knives, gasoline, Soy
beans (an ingredient of Sarin gas). The list can go on and on. And
this is from someone who, in his youth, lost several friends to street violence.
Guns, knives, molotov cocktails. People bent on killing and maiming their
fellow men and women are going to find a way to do it.
@thidChicago may have strict gun laws but when an adjacent county or
state does not, such laws are only a minor inconvenience to those seeking
firearms. If you want to fairly assess the efficacy of gun laws, look to the
majority of first world countries who have them and enforce them and compare the
results to the USA, which is awash in guns as well as in the blood of countless
victims of gun violence.
Horrible! Thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families. Thank
you brave first responders for your heroism. Pondering what I can
personally do to help resolve this kind of issue....perhaps one thing to do is
to oppose Hollywood's glamorization and profiteering over so much violence
in movies. You put a lot of garbage into the mind, garbage is going to come
out. Donating blood to the victims is another.Supporting legislation that requires baggage checks for hotels can be
another...The knee jerk reaction of gun legislation is only going to
allow criminals to have guns. I'd rather carry a concealed and feel
"safe" than having nothing.
We have to face the fact that this kind of thing is just part of life in the
USA. The price of freedom I guess. I mean if 20 dead kids and 6 dead teachers in
Sandy Hook wasnt enough for us to do something then nothing is ever going to
happen which will shock our conscience to the point of actually addressing our
gun violence problem. /Might as well just say "Oh well. Just
another day" because that IS going to be the action taken by us and our
Brave Sir Robin,I run a company that makes human impact and
environmental solutions - liberals love me for what I do. My previous company
made guns.While I'm no longer in the gun business, what you
just said used to bring a ton of money to me, because it would cause a scare on
the supply side and demand would go through the roof.anybody working
in guns will sell out as soon as somebody bigger than you says your same
words.I'm a gun maker, not owner, but I know a lot about the
market, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, Obama and Fienstien ought to have
received commission checks from me.Without guns people are still
deranged, so while your suggestion is one that you might think is convenient
(yet impossible to enforce), if you take guns away then they use trucks or other
means, and what stopped the truck driver in Nice - that would be a gun.You opinion is shared by many, and I used to watch people put out those
opinions and call up my factories to order everything they could get their hands
on for the following 2 weeks - and I hate to break it to you but that's
probably as far as your opinion goes.
Matxist - Sure, my comment about Jesus Christ coming to save us was unrealistic.
If you believe in the second coming at some point in time it'll happen
when it happens.My point is we are unable to stop the killing. Just
read the comments here in this blog. Everything from abolish the 2nd Amendment
to let's get more guns.If Jesus came back he'd stop the
killing. Can't wait.
Even if stricter gun laws are put in place it won't stop anything. Anyone
can get illegal guns quite easily. And I lived in Chicago years ago. Does anyone
actually think the guns that have killed so many in that city are legal? I can
tell you right now. No.
@neece"It is Not the guns that are killing people"Uh, yes it is. You need two things to have a situation like this: A motive,
and a means. You can't have a mass killing without both.The
motive is sometimes terrorism. Sometimes it is hate. Sometimes it is mental
illness. I hope we're able to address these things, but we'll never be
able to fix it all is my guess.But overwhelmingly, the means is
GUNS! Yes, people could find other ways of carrying out mass killings, but
they're all a heck of a lot harder than using a gun. There's a reason
bomb attacks are rarely successful - it's hard to build one. Much easier to
grab a gun and a few clips and start shooting. Sure, you can plow a car into a
crowd and kill/injure some people. But not 400.Fortunately most
rational people in the world realize that guns are a problem, so I'm
hopeful we'll have action on the matter (hopefully a second amendment
repeal, but I doubt it) sooner rather than later.
@starkat: "Because in the immediate wake of a tragedy is always the best
time to bicker politics and sling mud, right?"Yes. It is exactly
the time. We are looking at 50+ dead human beings, over 200 wounded.
We need to stand in the very center of the blood and carnage to
"argue" about politics. We need townhalls held in the midst
of wall-sized photos of the dead at Newtown and Pulse. Every
"debate" on stopping the carnage should open with a slow reading of the
names of the dead, with pictures of them in health and after they were shot. This is exactly the time for real Americans to stop playing word games
as demand it be ended.
Can we at least agree that something should be done about this problem? Like I
don't even mean agreeing with whatever you think I would support for this
kind of thing. Just agree that the status quo is unacceptable?
When a Muslim commits such an act, it is terrorism.When a minority
commits such an act, it is called racial rage.When a member of the
ethnic majority commits such an act, it is called a tragedy.Murder,
is murder, is murder. This is a tragic act of racial domestic terrorism. And
we ought to spend some time contemplating just that. What causes Americans to
be so violent
Are we honest enough to see the real cause of these attacks? There was a time in
America where most people attended a church of their choice where they were
taught by people they respected to love your neighbor and to obey higher laws,
including: Thou shalt not murder! The vast majority of people voluntarily obeyed
these laws because they believed they were accountable to God for their actions.
As America and the world becomes more secular, and morality is considered
"relative", we produce ever more amoral monsters because they don't
have any comprehension of good and evil! We are now at the point where we can
not build enough prisons or hire enough police to protect us from these human
products of secularism.
It is Not the guns that are killing people! it is the bad guys who can get a gun
just about anywhere. Repealing the 2nd Amendment isn't the answer. Most
people who are concealed weapons holders are carrying for their own protection.
They are not the ones who are shooting people. Take away the guns and only the
bad guys will own them. People are very naive to think gun control is the
answer. New York has a gun ban and yet they have higher gun incidents than
cities who don't.
In 1994 Clinton signed into law an assault weapons ban. It expired in 2004 and
Republicans opposed renewing the ban. If we can't be shocked
or moved to make adjustments to gun laws or end our love affair with guns when
innocent children are mowed down in their classrooms we reap what we sow.
I just read this and it bears putting out there:"Human nature
contains violence, evil, senseless aggression. But that’s true in every
country. We’re the only place where anything remotely like this happens on
a regular basis.But beyond guns – which are absolutely,
absolutely necessary to address and dramatically restrict access to – we
need to recognize that we don’t have mass violence only because of guns.
We have so many guns because America is a deeply violent society. That goes back
generations. " (Josh Marshall)
"Tragic but at least we still have our 2nd amendment rights."But it is certainly time to get serious about adopting serious, common sense
ways of preventing anyone from obtaining and using military weaponry. There is
absolutely no legitimate reason for anyone to possess an arsenal of high-powered
weapons.The answer is NOT "more guns" no matter what the
most rabid members of the NRA may try to tell us.It will be very
interesting to see what trump will have to say about this -- or what his speech
writers will have him say.It's long, long, long past time for
us to seek REAL solutions to this even if that means some reasonable
restrictions on ownership of military grade weaponry.Make America
Sane (and safe) Again
Short of imposing a police state (and even that might not be enough), deranged
people will always find means to kill lots of people, whether with guns, cars,
homemade bombs, etc. It would have been very easy to plow into this mass of
people in an open lot on Las Vegas Blvd with a big 4WD truck and kill dozens. In
Britain they don't have a bill of rights that guarantees firearm ownership,
so murderous people there have recently used cars and bombs. The answer to these
horrific acts is to remember that far more people still die from everyday
accidents, and that more connectedness and neighborliness is more likely to
prevent these tragedies than more laws, which deranged and criminal people
don't obey anyhow.
As bad as this is, at least 240 people have been shot dead in Chicago since
January! A city with very strict gun control laws! It is a myth that gun control
laws prevent these attacks!
It's long past time to repeal the 2nd Amendment.2A was fine
when the most advanced firearm technology was a muzzle-loader musket. 2A was
fine when owning a musket was necessary to keep army soldiers from demanding to
spend the night in your house.No, a repeal won't magically get
rid of all guns. But it would sure make it harder for deranged people to get
them. Remember, this guy used a gun that is currently legal to own.Repeal the 2nd Amendment now!
Horrific tragedy. Impossible to wrap one's head around. The political
aftermath will be ugly. We need leadership more than ever.
Again..... the people we need to worry about most are those that don't look
like us. They are the average looking guy/gal in our own neighborhoods. It
will be interesting to get more of the story behind this guy and what drove him
to do what he did.
This event, tragic as it is, will not meet the threshold at which we can have
and sustain a reasonable conversation about gun control, and the effect of the
gun culture in this nation. The NRA is already implementing their large mass
shooting communications strategy, and trump has America tied up in insults to
hurricane victims and protesting pro football players. He will provide no
leadership on this issue. If the guy had banned guns that has to pose some
serious questions rather than simply be used as proof bans don't work. Why
do rifles that can be upgraded to automatic exist. Why does America have so many
people willing to perform the upgrades? How is it you can exist and move about,
even into the Mandalay Bay, with no less than ten rifles relatively unnoticed?
Is a guy with a rifle in McDonalds a normal thing, and if so, why? What is wrong
with our culture that we just accept a new normal and move on?
Because in the immediate wake of a tragedy is always the best time to bicker
politics and sling mud, right?
@ConservativeUtahisBest"The guy used a fully automated rifles in the
attack. This type of gun has been banned from the US for years now." That's not true. Any adult, with a clean record, can buy a Federal
Firearm License and buy Class III automatic weapons. You have to sign a consent
form to allow the Feds to search your home, at any time, but that's it.
American citizens can purchase fully auto machine guns. There is no need for
citizens to have full auto weapons, but the NRA will lobby for that right.
Tragic but at least we still have our 2nd amendment rights.
@common sense in Idaho " I'm heartbroken for these victims. The Savior
Jesus Christ can't come back soon enough."We are beset by
the threat of violence at all levels, from guns in Las Vegas to nuclear war in
the far east. We have to be about solving these threats ourselves. Though you
mean well, your statement is quite beside the point.
@marxistThe guy used a fully automated rifles in the attack. This
type of gun has been banned from the US for years now. If the gun was banned
how did he have them to use?
The answer from the NRA will be more guns, and still more guns.
A tragedy. And apparently we accept this as normal.I wonder how
many more such events we face in the future.
Trump blamed Obama when these things happened, now we can blame
Trump...Sad when anyone can own over 10 high powered rifles, and thousands of rounds of ammo...and not be noticed...
What is wrong with people? Human life means nothing anymore? A mass killing
and for what? Just to inflict human misery and suffering? What is
happening to our country?I'm heartbroken for these victims.
The Savior Jesus Christ can't come back soon enough.