@Worf - so what you are saying is if you get sick it is your own fault.Way to blame the victim. Outside of smoking and a keeping an active
lifestyle your health is a bit of a crapshoot. Who knows! Maybe you'll be
next! It would change your tune right quick!
@ worfYou didn't answer my questions - unless you think
"responsibility" answers it all? But this assumes what simply
isn't true: that we're all born into the same circumstances, with
equal genetic material and equal opportunity to make all the choices you deem
responsible. That's a nice little fantasy world to live in, but it hardly
reflects reality. There's also this reality: Just as we
ultimately pay for those without insurance who seek care in our ERs, we also pay
for those who DO have health insurance but don't live responsibly, thus
require more care, thus push up our premiums. IOW, we're all connected,
thus it behooves us to be responsible TO each other.So given this
reality, what's the more responsible and moral approach: provide basic care
for all that emphasizes prevention or a Darwinian approach that punishes
children dealt a bad hand from birth? (This is where the anti-abortionist fails
the moral case. Far too many are all about forcing the pregnancy to term, but
are also all too willing to abandon the child to its circumstances thereafter.)
Most medical problems can be avoided with proper personal care.Many
folks live healthy through their seventies, and eighties with a good diet, and
excercise program.Avoid the carelessness.
@Thid Barker"Never are mentioned the millions of formerly insured
people who can no longer afford the higher premiums"" force their
neighbors to pick up the tab for their "free/subsidized" healthcare!
Why, it might make them appreciate their neighbors! No, probably not!"You're arguing that the subsidized exchange healthcare is both so
expensive people can't afford it and so cheap people are basically
Ahhh compassionate conservatism, an oxymoron of the first order. But if you do
become ill please have the courtesy to die quickly and not become a burden on
the rest of us.
The new healthcare plan will be known as TrumpCare, RyanCare, RPC
(RepublicanPartyCare), GOPCare and/or UCA(UnaffordableCareAct).
at long last... "ER visits have not lessened with the Obamacare law"The number of visits is not important. The point of the ACA was to get
more of those visits paid for by insurance rather than by taxpayers. When Republicans repeal the individual mandate, there will be no incentive to
buy insurance knowing that "free" healthcare is available at the
@Karen R,Being responsible? You can answer this:* get a
skill, education, and good employment* stay away from smoking, drugs,
drinking, and eating junk food* being frugal.* eat a healthy diet* electing honest leaders* for women,--avoid pregnancy until it becomes
manageable, and affordable* proper decision makingSorry! But
I don't believe in being punished for the actions of others, just like I
don't think honer roll students should pay for the low grades of others.
Wow, is this turning into a mess. It was going to be terrific, he told us so.
It was going to be superior in every way. Now he won't even come near
it, let alone put his name on it. After all these years of vowing
vengeance and replacement of the ACA, all we can do is watch the republicans
Trump lied about his/GOP's terrific, bestest, affordable healthcare ever,
and his sycophants defend him. SadIt would humorous if lives
weren't in the balance.Apparently conservative care more about
the unborn than the born, once your out, grab those boot straps, cause your on
your own, unless you choose wealthy parent, if you choose a poor family then you
should suffer for the sin of your parents, being financially challenged,
it's a choice.In conservative America, you better hope your
child is cute enough to entice customers at convenience store counters to
"Save their Life."
Someone has said "formerly insured people who can no longer afford the
higher premiums".Just who are these people? More people than
ever are getting insurance now, be it through Medicaid, State/Federal
marketplaces, Medicare or (for the vast, yuge majority) their employers. The
rate of the uninsured has never been lower. It is irresponsible to make the
above quoted claim. Secondly, when have insurance premiums ever
gone down? Before and after Obamacare my individually paid insurance premiums
always went up, and before Obamacare, to exteme uncomfortable amounts, with
worse coverage, less of a provider network and higher deductibles.Lastly, does anybody know that the proposed Trumpcare/Ryancare law will
excuse employers from having to provide insurance? Hang onto your hats, folks,
its going to be a very bumpy ride.Sad
It's funny how Donald Trump has plastered his name over everything,
including meat, but he doesn't want his name plastered over his health care
plan. The guy who designed the Edsel probably felt the same way.
GaryO - I believe the statistics demonstrate that the ER visits have not
lessened with the Obamacare law, but have remained essentially the same or have
gone up somewhat. Suggest you look straight ahead to see what is really
happening, rather than just to the left. . .
@ worf"What ever happened to people being responsible for
themselves?"Exactly how does being unable to afford healthcare
necessarily equate to irresponsibility? Please explain.In addition
to being responsible for ourselves, do you believe we are also responsible to
each other? (Not for each other; TO each other. There's a difference.)Many conservatives claim a market-driven healthcare system is the
answer. But if hospitals are required to render aid regardless of capacity to
pay, the evidence shows we place them in a position where they can't
compete. Is the solution to deny care to those who can't pay for it?People of a conservative bent often fixate on that small percentage who
freeload off the system. They mistakenly think this applies to all who qualify
for government assistance. But what about the children of the wealthy (like
Donald Trump) who did nothing to earn what they have and often continue their
family tradition of using every trick to avoid contributing tax money to the
system? When are these freeloaders going to be targeted by conservatives too?
The GOP plan gives over 800 billion in tax cuts to the ultra rich, and at the
same time can raise premiums based on age to seniors over 5 times what they are
paying right now under The ACA. I see something really wrong with this. Is
this what Jesus would do? Ignore those least able to take care of themselves? I
support the AARP that sees this GOP plan for the fraud that it is. I
guess in the new world of the GOP, Jesus would be having dinner at his Country
Club while the poor and needy stand outside without any mention of sympathy.That in a nutshell is the GOP and it's hate the poor and needy with
programs enriching themselves and the rich.
I believe in capitalism but healthcare is not a normal economic market. You
can't shop around for a heart surgeon if you are in the middle of a heart
attack. You cant even call the hospital for an estimate - the fees are so
complicated that there isn't even a set price.Poor people who
dont have insurance will just wait and go to the emergency room and EVERYONE
will pay for their unpaid medical bills through increased premiums. There is a cost effective health system out there: Single payer. Everyone pays
taxes, everyone gets basic benefits - and you can buy supplementary insurance if
you have special medical needs or want to see a private doctor.The
US spends more than everyone else but gets less care. As a fiscal conservative
this makes no sense to me.
Emergency rooms will once again be packed with people needing health care, just
as they were before Obamacare.We the people of the United States
will be paying those immense emergency room bills, just as we did before
Obamacare.Emergency care isn't even factored into the cost of
this new Republican bill.But it should be, don't you think?
worf - You complain by way of asking a lot of questions, but you don't
suggest a solution.Simple question. There will be people who cannot
pay for needed medical treatment -- what do you think should happen to those
Never are mentioned the millions of formerly insured people who can no longer
afford the higher premiums, the ever higher deductibles and fewer providers
Obamacare forced upon us! By the way, wouldn't it be interesting if some
people had to make sacrifices, like give up their iphones, beer and fast foods,
so they to can afford their healthcare? Oh how terrible! Too much to ask the
"poor" people to sacrifice something for their healthcare but never too
much to force their neighbors to pick up the tab for their
"free/subsidized" healthcare! Why, it might make them appreciate their
neighbors! No, probably not!
Let's see. People will lose insurance that pays for hospital bills.Will People stop going to the hospital? Doubt it.Do most
People without insurance have the wherewithall to pay for hospital bills out of
the checking account? Doubt it.Will those tossed off Medicaid, lose
their employer sponsored insurance or exchange plans not get sick and need
hospital care? Again, Doubt it.Will accident victims without
insurance with life threatening injuries not go the hospital because they can
not afford it? And Again, Doubt it.Therefore, we are left with
hospitals treating people with emergencies and life threatening conditions with
no possible means of being paid for this care. By a law passed in 1985 and
signed by St Ronald, hospitals must still render care.And guess who
really pays for this? All of us in the form of higher fees (even non-profit
hospitals have overhead). No wonder the largest Hospital Asso in
the country, not to mention the AMA and AARP amongst others, hate this new
plan.And I thought the President promised us something bigger,
better and cheaper. What a laugh!
One of the most likely ways hospitals will make up for revenue losses is by
increasing the amount they charge privately insured patients. ====Great.Not only will millions loose coverage, but the
REST of us will end up paying even MORE...Good plan Trump and the
Should we rob our citizens of their money, and pay the medical coverage of
others?What ever happened to people being responsible for
themselves?Hmm? Should we punish honor roll students for their good
The article says nothing about another group of people who used to go to the
doctor because they could risk the $500 deductible.But now they are
on the hook for $3,000 deductible and stay home instead, hoping they get better
on their own.The Obamacare apologists never talk about that, do
they?There are millions of people now who pay higher premiums than
ever and all they have is, in essence, a major medical plan. So they have to
decide how sick they are before they seek help.Thanks, Obama.
Hospitals and all American citizens should be worried about large increases in
the uninsured population if Paul Ryan and the GOP have their way and get HR
1313, "The Preserving Employee Wellness Programs Act". If passed, it
will allow employers to force employees to submit their DNA for testing.
Insurance companies will then be able to use all of that data to stop coverage
or raise it to un-affordable rates for certain segments of the population. Our
DNA is the most personal possession of all Americans and should not be allowed
to keep us from health insurance.
Yo Voters, how's that Trumpcare working for Ya?
So with the taxpayers, through the government, perhaps not paying the hospitals
as much, they are prepared to get upset. Why not wait until a law is passed
before getting upset. My guess is that we will know what is in the bill when it
is passed, unlike Pelosi's comment about the Obamacare bill - "We have
to pass it to know what's in it." We all realize that Obamacare is a
massive failure which is fiscally unsustainable, ergo the changes we will see,
in an attempt to make a sustainable program. Cui bono?