Trump speaks with Taiwan's president, unusual for a president-elect

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  • my_two_cents_worth university place, WA
    Dec. 6, 2016 6:25 p.m.

    @lost in DC

    Actually, both you and glendenbg made poor analogies. Both the PRC (peoples Republic of China--to politicians running things out of Beijing) and ROC (Republic of China--the politicians running things out of Taipei) acknowledge that Taiwan is a part of China and not an autonomous, independent state. The disagreement is about who is the legitimate government of Chine; both the PRC and ROC claim to be. So, glendenbg's analogy fails because it assumes Taiwan is a subordinate Chinese common wealth-which it is not-and your analogy fails because Taiwan has always recognized itself as a part of China and, therefore, reunification is neither needed nor sought.

  • my_two_cents_worth university place, WA
    Dec. 4, 2016 6:14 p.m.

    The President of Taiwan called the Donald.

    Good job, Mr. President Elect, you've just been played.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Dec. 4, 2016 9:33 a.m.

    glendenbg
    you compare taiwan and china to the US and PR?

    every few years PR has a vote whether or not to stay part of the US. They have always voted to remain, but we would honor their voice if they voted to leave.

    do you see any serious political movement in taiwan seeking reunification?

    you drew a poor analogy

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 4, 2016 9:07 a.m.

    @112358 - you're very correct about China's brutality.

    The early signs are that Taiwan is paying the price for their conversation with Trump.

    China has been patiently tolerating Taiwan's democracy, but that patience is thinning, and as China grows in strength - empowered by the US walking away from the Trans Pacific Partnership - Trump's foolish mistake helps move the chess pieces toward China's formal absorption of Taiwan.

    China is getting more aggressive in slowly crushing dissent in Hong Kong, and Trump intends for America to disengage from the whole region economically, so in the longer run, Trump really may have given Taiwan a "wink of death".

    It's unclear whether Trump understands any of this, but his mentor, Vladimir Putin - along with Putin's ally, China - certainly do.

  • 112358 Alpine, UT
    Dec. 4, 2016 12:33 a.m.

    @glendenbg

    Your analysis treats China on the same moral plane as free countries. China is governed by a brutal dictatorship (ask Tibet), that has (as a matter of history) killed millions of its own citizens, and is bent on bringing Taiwan and others under its thumb. While, as you write, China has not invaded Taiwan yet, you fail to mention that China is preparing to do exactly that. Looking the other way while China prepares to subjugate a free people is a morally pusillanimous temptation that we must not yield to.

    China seeks to slowly normalize the notion that an invasion of Taiwan is legitimate. China wants to intimidate free countries from supporting Taiwan's freedom. Inasmuch as we cow to China's intimidation, we become accomplices in their desire to destroy the freedom of Taiwan. We must not look the other way while a bully picks on a weak victim.

    I agree on one point: the phone call is not minor. Breaking the taboo is a courageous way to show support for the freedom of Taiwan. Taiwan's citizens deserve freedom. The least we can do is to have the courage to respect the leader that they have elected.

  • glendenbg Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 3, 2016 8:25 p.m.

    @112358 - you asked why it should be taboo for Trump to talk with Taiwan.

    Imagine if the the newly elected Prime Minister of Great Britain (or any other nation) talked with the governor Puerto Rico and treated him as the representative of the United States, before contacting the President of the United States. That's why. The Chinese government has lodged a formal protest over the call.

    Since 1979, every US President - Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama - have followed the same policy for the same reasons. The groundwork for this policy was established by Nixon and expanded by Ford.

    It might seem minor - just a phone call. But the relationship between the US and China is complex. We are trading partners; we do not agree on a great many issues, but we have to deal with each other and keeping international peace matters. We know that in 37 years, (since 1979) the US and China have been at peace and China has not invaded Taiwan.

    The US and China are nuclear armed nations with huge armies and economies. We have to be careful and intentional in how we relate to one another. Trump seems to show no care for the complexity of that relationship.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 3, 2016 4:35 p.m.

    @Vanceone
    "The left has a conniption whenever America wins something, so it's no surprise that they are running for the fainting couches. How Dare Trump actually look out for America!"

    I'm not really sure what part of thank you calls from foreign leaders is America winning something or Trump looking out for America.

  • Mick Murray, Utah
    Dec. 3, 2016 4:00 p.m.

    Frozen frac-

    So you have no problems with Obama's unilateral deal with Iran to give them billions of dollars in exchange for nothing....... I mean hostages? A country that has sworn to use nuclear weapons against Israel. A country who funds terrorists that bomb us. A country where women are second class citizens. A country that kills homosexuals.

    And you are okay with Obama lifting an embargo on Cuba without any promise or deal in return of lifting laws or restrictions against their poverty stricken people.

    And you are worried about Trump "lies" when we have had lost emails, Benghazi, fast and furious and if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor.

    I could go on.

    And you are worried about what China thinks of a phone call to Taiwan? Sheesh.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Dec. 3, 2016 3:57 p.m.

    The US is now in a precarious position. Trump is thin skinned and reactionary. World leaders & foreign government chess players will push Trump's buttons & make him dance. He will be exposed for the incompetent President that he will be. It would almost be funny if the stakes weren't so high & the consequences of his irrationality weren't so dire.

  • Oh, please! Saint George, UT
    Dec. 3, 2016 3:57 p.m.

    It doesn't take much to upset the Chinese, no matter the source.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    Dec. 3, 2016 2:50 p.m.

    Hey 112358 -

    "The current self-contradictory charade -- that is the US policy towards Taiwan -- was invented by Jimmy Carter. "

    What is so self-contradictory about the fact that Mainland China is much more important to us than Taiwan?

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    Dec. 3, 2016 2:45 p.m.

    Hey Say No to BO -

    "Trump is not going to be bound to old ideas that didn't work anyway."

    What you really mean is that Trump is not bound to good sense.

    Trump, the leader of the GOP, embodies senselessness.

    His words cannot be trusted. He lies. He contradicts himself repeatedly. And he can be played like a fiddle by foreign bad actors.

    You know . . . With our "unusual" President-elect and all the world instability Trump brings to the table, now would be a really good time to buy some gold, wouldn't it?

    By the time Trump leaves office, people will have already rushed to buy that one commodity that increases in value during times of instability.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    Dec. 3, 2016 12:48 p.m.

    Hey Say No to BO -

    "Trump is not going to be bound to old ideas that didn't work anyway."

    What you really mean is that Trump is not bound to good sense.

    Trump, the leader of the GOP, embodies senselessness.

    His words cannot be trusted. He lies. He contradicts himself repeatedly. And he can be played like a fiddle by foreign bad actors.

    You know . . . With all the world instability Trump brings to the table, now would be a really good time to buy some gold. By the time Trump leaves office, people will have rushed to buy that one commodity that increases in value in times of instability.

  • Daedalus, Stephen ARVADA, CO
    Dec. 3, 2016 12:20 p.m.

    Trump made many outlandish and unattainable promises during his campaign to "Make America Great Again" but I don't recall any of the following absurdities:

    - Privatizing ownership and control of America's military
    - Crowd-sourcing decision to launch nuclear strikes
    - Abolishing prisons
    - Destabilizing relations with the country that tops the list of foreign owners of U.S. debt/Treasury bonds
    - Doing a scrape-off of the White House

    Yet by the logic of several comments, any of these can be rationalized by Trump enablers as something a "leader" and "reformer" who was hand-selected by God is expected to do, even if he never hinted that he might pursue any such bizarre policies during the campaign.

    So let's just get this out of the way now: "I told you so".

    At different times, and for different reasons, Trump's enablers will learn the hard way why you are being told this now, before he is even sworn in. Like pulling off a bandaid, the faster/sooner this occurs, the less painful it will be...for all of us.

  • Jim Chee Ka'anapali, HI
    Dec. 3, 2016 12:14 p.m.

    GingerMarshall - Brooklyn, OH
    Dec. 3, 2016 9:49 a.m.

    "Childish name calling? "

    You need to re-read my post.

    Too many Donald Trump supporters say they don't like the mainstream media (NYTimes and WaPost), but they also refuse to utilize any analytical skills in reading the Internet sources they claim to prefer. Often, they will say, "Google it" as if the Internet is a primary source. Perhaps they do prefer Breibart and Drudge. Many watch Fox News as if it is a legitimate news source. The see Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly and unbiased journalists where they are actually conservative voices of opinion.

    One can find any opinion, fake news piece, or conspiracy on the Internet. It is not a credible source. But then who in Trump World is concerned with facts when the choose to believe Trump as if he were the leader of a political/social cult.

    Critics often say progressives don't understand the Trump movement, but then the Trump people continue to believe, say, and do things that are irrational and false. This is why Trump doesn't understand science but claims he knows better than the scientists. I would surely like to see his college transcripts.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Dec. 3, 2016 11:45 a.m.

    We get it and are over it. Trump does things his own way, get used to it, he won, he's a reformer, we've given up our sovereignty. Some of us.
    But I believe he's done something foolish and that stands on its' own merits. No one has given up the right to call him on it. Certainly not me. I'm not giving up that sovereignty.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 3, 2016 10:37 a.m.

    @Mick
    "Did you have a problem with the deal that Obama made with Iran?"

    Nope.

    "Did you have a problem with the deals Obama made with Cuba? "

    Nope. The embargo has pretty much been a failure so a change in strategy was needed. We tend to make countries more open to us when we're importing our stuff.

    "What about the red reset button Hillary offered ? That was great. "

    *shrugs* Can't win em all.

    "Our standing in the world was destroyed by Obama. It can only go up from the basement we are in."

    I think only Israel, Russia, and Pakistan had a higher approval rating of Bush than Obama and every nation outside the US polled preferred Hillary by sizable (10 point) to overwhelming (Denmark was over a 70 point margin with only 8% preferring Trump).

    @lost in DC
    "I am sorry you have all surrendered our sovereignty"

    Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's useful to do so.

    @worf
    "A leader who get things done is annoying the liberal minded."

    What he did was confuse (India) and anger (China) two nations of a billion people in one week.

  • Escondido Coug Escondido, CA
    Dec. 3, 2016 9:59 a.m.

    President-Elect Trump takes a phone call, changes no formal relations with Taiwan, and the left expresses outrage and fear over what that call will lead to because it goes against some weak policy in place for 40 years. How effective has that diplomatic approach been in 40 years?
    In contrast, the left lauds a breach in 50 years of policy with Cuba via an executive order which makes the U.S. look weak and has no reported positive effect on the wonderful people of Cuba.
    Is there something out of balance here?

  • Vanceone Provo, UT
    Dec. 3, 2016 10:00 a.m.

    The left has a conniption whenever America wins something, so it's no surprise that they are running for the fainting couches. How Dare Trump actually look out for America! That's forbidden by the left, after all. Our foreign policy should be to enable America's enemies and give them pallets of cash and nuclear tech.

    Ask Bill Clinton, who did that to China and North Korea. Ask Obama, who did it for Iran.

    Liberals are not happy unless America is humiliated and we dance to the request of the commies in Beijing.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Dec. 3, 2016 9:57 a.m.

    Get used to it folks. Trump is not going to be bound to old ideas that didn't work anyway.

    That's what reformers do.

  • Lamman Nampa, ID
    Dec. 3, 2016 9:36 a.m.

    We Did not elect a politition we elected The President of the United States. God had a hand in his selection. He is his servant. To break the foolish tradition of placating communist leaders and many other traditions. I predict that many countries who have not allowed churches to proselytize will open themselves up to it unwittingly as an unintended consequence. It is noted that many leaders have acknowledged President Trump with renewed respect. They will not be able to control him with made up "traditional " fears. There will be continued and increased opposition to this President but he seems to be protected by some unseen power.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Dec. 3, 2016 9:30 a.m.

    Wow!

    A leader who get things done is annoying the liberal minded.

    American leadership is back, and is so refreshing. Our sinking ship in being fixed.

  • Mick Murray, Utah
    Dec. 3, 2016 9:22 a.m.

    Ginger, frozen, and all Liberals-

    Did you have a problem with the deal that Obama made with Iran?

    Did you have a problem with the deals Obama made with Cuba? The communist Castros have been so great and caring to their people. I am glad we can support their regime. Could Obama possibly have a deal with Jayz and a future resort there?

    What about the red reset button Hillary offered ? That was great.

    Our standing in the world was destroyed by Obama. It can only go up from the basement we are in.

  • GingerMarshall Brooklyn, OH
    Dec. 3, 2016 8:53 a.m.

    He's not even confirmed by the electoral college and he has already caused two diplomatic crisis.

    He is ignorant, uninformed and totally clueless about what he doesn't know. He's ignoring protocol, ignoring the danger, ignoring the people who actually know what is going on.

    He isn't signaling a shift in direction on US policy because he doesn't know current policy, doesn't know why current policy is in place, doesn't even know the players or the rules of the situation.

    He has simply created chaos in our relationship with a military and economic superpower. And, per usual, he tweets - tweets!! - it isn't his fault.

    Because it seems Trump wants to build a hotel in Taiwan, so destabilizing diplomatic relations with China and endangering the United States takes a back seat to lining his pockets.

    Too bad we didn't select a President with extensive international experience and demonstrated competency in diplomacy.

    That's okay. America Great! Or something.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Dec. 3, 2016 8:24 a.m.

    Unusual? I think foolish is a better description.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 3, 2016 6:55 a.m.

    The world needs to adjust to the entertainer that tweets out policy.

  • at long last. . . Kirksville , MO
    Dec. 3, 2016 6:38 a.m.

    It is passing strange that an incoming call being taken by Trump in what is a normal civil reaction, is being treated by the media and diplomatic folks in foggy bottom as a catastrophic event. Hopefully, this is the first of many "outrages" to the diplomatic community.

  • illuminated Kansas City, MO
    Dec. 3, 2016 6:26 a.m.

    Good for Trump.

    Our corrupt establishment government and media just isn't used to someone who actually goes to Washington to get real stuff done. Trump is making America Great Again and he isn't even in office yet.

  • Cheshire Cat Bronx, NY
    Dec. 3, 2016 4:10 a.m.

    He did it again. So are we ready for the roller-coaster ride that will be the Trump administration. People are going to have to hold on and hope the mess created will not be too much to clean up. But Donald Trump apparently doesn't care what he does (be it ignorance or out-right belligerence), but the seem to enjoy creating dysfunction and confusion and then having someone else have to clean up after him.

    It's like the Carrier deal. He sweeps in, grabs the headlines, and then manipulates the media to think he's done a great thing while the complete opposite has happened and the people at Carrier in Indiana still lose 1300 jobs to Mexico while Carrier (and its corporate leaders) make off with a $7 million pay-out at the expense of Indiana citizens.

    However, the call to Taiwan did carry other benefits for Trump. He has a Trump Organization man there to look into a real estate deal with Eric Trump scheduled to visit Taiwan later next year to start formal negotiations. It boggles the mind. Not only is Trump refusing to cut his ties with his businesses, he is seeking new opportunities as CEO of Trump USA. Go figure.

  • Jim Chee Ka'anapali, HI
    Dec. 3, 2016 1:02 a.m.

    Donald Trump took the unprecedented step of calling the Taiwanese president in a break from 30 years of American diplomatic relations. Although he later claimed that the Taiwanese president called him, this was only after criticism was directed at his very un-diplomatic gaffe. Now China is upset since the move suggests that Trump believes that Taiwan is independent of China and exists as a nation unto itself.

    The Taiwanese president understands the sensitivity of its position in the world and would not want to jeopardize its own relationship with China by committing such a embarrassing mistake. So, what does Trump do? He lies, as usual, and blames the Taiwanese president for the call. It will be reported that this call was unexpected received from Trump and the Taiwanese president will try to minimize the damage going forward.

    Trump only shows his continuing ignorance of history and world affairs by doing this. Apparently he has been contacting other autocrats in foreign countries to start smoothing the way for whatever is in his mind that will be beneficial when he is sworn-in as president. and starts to capitalize on his position.

  • 112358 Alpine, UT
    Dec. 2, 2016 11:58 p.m.

    Why should it be taboo for a President-elect of the United States – the future "leader of the free world" to talk to the president of a de facto free country? Communist China should not be able to dictate the fate of the free people of Taiwan. Cowering in fear to the dictators ruling China only encourages their aggression.

    The current self-contradictory charade -- that is the US policy towards Taiwan -- was invented by Jimmy Carter. The internal inconsistencies in that policy make it unsustainable. Unless the US policy towards Taiwan changes, it is only a matter of time until China invades.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 2, 2016 11:17 p.m.

    He's uninformed, doesn't listen to experts, doesn't think before he speaks, and has no sense of tact. Of course he did this, just like a few days ago he made India question things with his conversation with the Pakistani Prime Minister. Our standing in the world is going to go downhill and it's not even day 1.

  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    Dec. 2, 2016 11:15 p.m.

    President-elect Donald Trump is a leader! The left needs to get used to it and stop whining!