Confederate emblem 'anti-American,' judge in flag case says

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  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    April 16, 2016 9:52 a.m.

    The judge is making vague arguments. And that is scary.

    He says that flag is "Unamerican". He claims that someone raising that flag takes away his 'dignity'. Anyone could then make an argument that someone else's free speech is un-American and that it takes away their 'dignity'. I fear that someone's vague right to have dignity could be misused to deny other people's right to freedom of speech or freedom of religion.

  • Contrariuser mid-state, TN
    April 15, 2016 2:49 p.m.

    @Conservative Democrat --

    "What bothers me is that the flag never stood for slavery so much as it stood for states' rights."

    Don't kid yourself. Of course it stood for slavery. Did you not read the quotes I already provided?

    Here's another quote, from the designer of the Stainless Banner (a mostly white flag) -- another of the Confederacy's flags:

    "As a people we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause."

    The meaning of these flags was very clear to the people who fought under them. Stop trying to rewrite history.

  • Conservative Democrat Omaha, NE
    April 15, 2016 11:34 a.m.

    LOU Montana

    Why blame Republicans for the flag? They didn't put it up in any of the Southern states - the Democrats did. Now Democrats are asking Republicans to clean up the mess they left behind. It's a new version of "to the victors go the spoils." What bothers me is that the flag never stood for slavery so much as it stood for states' rights. Liberals, men, women conservatives, native Americans, African-Americans, and Caucasians all willingly fought under that flag. Now somebody is suing because today's liberals and moonbats have taken over the college campuses and are rewriting history.

  • Contrariuser mid-state, TN
    April 14, 2016 9:20 p.m.

    @Oatmeal --

    "Are not symbols a form of speech? If so, no symbol, even a swastika, should be held as "unconstitutional." This is the United States, where we allege to hold that all people hold inalienable rights, including the constitutionally guaranteed right to free speech."

    Yet again -- nobody is talking about preventing private individuals from waving as many Confederate battle flags as they like. What we're talking about here is removing the battle flag from **government property** and **government symbols** like state flags and such.

  • Oatmeal Woods Cross, UT
    April 14, 2016 7:10 p.m.

    Are not symbols a form of speech? If so, no symbol, even a swastika, should be held as "unconstitutional." This is the United States, where we allege to hold that all people hold inalienable rights, including the constitutionally guaranteed right to free speech.

  • EscherEnigma Ridgecrest, CA
    April 14, 2016 3:53 p.m.

    Is the "Stars and Bars" an un-American symbol? Yes. Obviously. It was literally waved about as a proud symbol of treason.

    That said, I'm pretty sure this judge is gonna reject the argument. Just because something is blatantly un-American doesn't mean it's the court's job to say the government shouldn't do it.

    Re: the "Rainbow flag is as offensive as whatever" argument
    If you equate that flag with the Stars & Bars (which I think many would argue is a false equivalency), you should at least be consistent: either government agencies should be able to fly both at their discretion, or government agencies should be prohibited from flying either.

  • Liberal Living on Planet Zion SLC, UT
    April 14, 2016 10:59 a.m.

    @ lost
    West Jordan, UT

    "And the rainbow flag DOES harm others because it represents a chosen lifestyle many find offensive that is being glorified and given special status by society and those who disagree are excoriated and persecuted".

    Daily emotionally fueled, opinion based, partisan, anti-equality rants continue being excellent examples of why equality for all citizens regardless of their sexual orientation is much needed. Liberals such as myself continue thanking states such as Mississippi and North Carolina for opening the door with their blatant disregard for equality of all citizens. Furthermore. Please cite specific examples of how you have been "persecuted" and "excoriated". Meanwhile possibly possess some compassion rather the continued daily pontificating.

  • Contrarius mid-state, TN
    April 14, 2016 6:41 a.m.

    @lost --

    "I am pretty sure at one point He told a person caught in one of the most serious sins to 'go thy way and sin no more'."

    What you keep forgetting is that Christ never tried to **force** anyone to stop sinning. He told them what he thought, and then he let them make their own decisions. He respected their free will. In stark contrast, some religious conservatives try to force their religious will on anyone who doesn't agree with them.

    "I associate that flag, because of the "rift it has caused in our society and the assault it has led on religious liberty, with symbol ‘lib on planet’ referenced in his 2:57 post."

    You can "associate" it with whatever you like -- but the rainbow flag and those who support it have never seceded from the United States, nor tried to own slaves, nor caused a Civil War that killed more than half a million people.

    See the difference?

  • Lagomorph Salt Lake City, UT
    April 13, 2016 5:51 p.m.

    @jsf: Whether it was the national flag of the CSA or a military battle flag is irrelevant; it is still a Confederate flag. The flag in question is the one seized upon by popular culture as synonymous with the South, that adorned Alabama and Lynyrd Skynyrd album covers and the roof of the General Lee.

    You have avoided the question: why continue to use that flag as a symbol of southern pride?

    It fails badly on one level because it represents only a fraction of the South. I sincerely doubt that regional pride is the emotion swelling within the bosoms of black southerners when they see it. Because of its history, it is divisive from the getgo among southerners themselves. You assert, "honor, loyalty and patriotism," but to what moral cause? So why not rally around something that the entire population can embrace with, well, actual pride and that doesn’t alienate a big chunk of the population with its link to their enslavement and oppression? Something like grits and pulled pork BBQ.

    And why is the South so hung up on regional pride anyway? You don’t see New Englanders or Midwesterners wrapped up in regional emblems.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    April 13, 2016 3:48 p.m.

    @lost in DC.
    You might not agree with Kennedy’s opinion in Obergefell, and I may not either. But, in the short run, that is a moot point. Justice Kennedy, along with the 4 liberals on the Court, has declared a new constitutional right to “dignity.”

    The Mississippi judge is deciding if this new right applies to symbols on government property that are offensive to some in the community. If the right to dignity means the expulsion of the Confederate flag from government property, what other symbols on government property might some believe violate their personal dignity. Could this potentially extend to a “Vote Trump” sign at a public university? Could it eventually extend to young men and young women who wear the name of their church on a badge while on public property? And have some groups of American residents historically been so oppressed that their right to dignity is in need of greater protection than other groups?

    I think Justice Kennedy potentially opened a big can of worms. We will see how the courts deal with it.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    April 13, 2016 3:31 p.m.

    omni
    Christ sat, ate, spoke, and associated with sinners. He said the whole need not the physician, but the sick. In that reference, he did NOT infer the physician should sit idly by as the sick person continued to engage in the practices that made them sick. And He never condoned the sin. I am pretty sure at one point He told a person caught in one of the most serious sins to “go thy way and sin no more”. I do not think His condemnation of sin or His admonition to sin no more made him a bigot, but in the eyes of the left, those who do not condone and embrace sin are bigots.

    Contrary
    Get serious about the rainbow flag? I am and was. I associate that flag, because of the rift it has caused in our society and the assault it has led on religious liberty, with symbol ‘lib on planet’ referenced in his 2:57 post.

  • Lib on Planet Utah SLC, UT
    April 13, 2016 2:57 p.m.

    Hank Jr
    Deer Ridge, UT

    "Lest we should forget the lessons of history, the Confederate flag IS a part of American history. By censoring the flag we are denying history".

    Excellent point Hank! The swastika is part of history as well. Life in Deer Ridge, Utah seems ignorantly blissful!

  • Contrarius mid-state, TN
    April 13, 2016 1:40 p.m.

    @jsf --

    "the Union was the slavery issue prior to the civil war."

    Yet again -- the Union states gave up slavery WITHOUT seceding. The Confederate states didn't. See the difference?

    "campaign buttons with Bill and Hillary's pictures standing with the flag and then later Al Gore's picture with the battle flag."

    There's no evidence that those were official campaign buttons.

    From the Washington Post: "One indicator that it isn't official is that it lacks a union "bug," the little marker showing that a piece of campaign material was printed in a union shop. If you look at other Clinton-Gore buttons, nearly all -- but not all -- have a bug somewhere. [....] anyone who wanted to could make his or her own, offering whatever sentiment they wanted to. So just because these buttons exist doesn't mean they were sanctioned or approved by the campaign."

    @lost in DC --

    "Actually it is not the flag, it is the 'e pluribus unum' motto on our currency that is the symbol of unity."

    Actually it's both. Haven't you ever looked up the symbolism in the flag's elements?

    As for the rainbow flag -- please get serious.

  • omni scent taylorsville, UT
    April 13, 2016 12:52 p.m.

    Lost in DC:
    "Yes, they are [Christians persecuted by LGBT]. If we don’t honor them and accept everything they do and say as the most correct and best thing ever said, we are decried as bigots. If we don’t cater to their every whim, we are boycotted and excoriated."

    I'm a church-going Christian. I know that Christ advocated loving one another. I know that he was regularly among sinners, publicans, harlots, adulterers, etc. I know one of the groups Christ spoke out against most were religious hypocrites. I've never been labeled as a bigot. Perhaps it's the bigotry and not the religion that is getting people labeled as bigots.

  • jjjdsd CENTERVILLE, UT
    April 13, 2016 12:36 p.m.

    The UN does not limit the terms definition to the killing of a group. But includes the eradication of a populations history, culture, and heritage.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    April 13, 2016 12:31 p.m.

    Contrarthe Union was the slavery issue prior to the civil war. The war was over before the north solved the slavery issue. But you ignore all the US history prior to the Civil war where the US thirteen stripes flew over a nation that began with slavery.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    April 13, 2016 12:28 p.m.

    Contrary-whatever
    Actually it is not the flag, it is the “e pluribus unum” motto on our currency that is the symbol of unity.

    And the rainbow flag DOES harm others because it represents a chosen lifestyle many find offensive that is being glorified and given special status by society and those who disagree are excoriated and persecuted.

    Omni scent
    Yes, they are. If we don’t honor them and accept everything they do and say as the most correct and best thing ever said, we are decried as bigots. If we don’t cater to their every whim, we are boycotted and excoriated.

    Vermonter,
    Kennedy has shown again it was a mistake to seat him on the bench – same with ginsburg, sotomayor, kagan, and breyer. That bunch doesn’t even know the meaning of the word “state” for cryin’ out loud.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    April 13, 2016 12:28 p.m.

    @Lagomorph, one needs to understand the difference between the flag of the Confederate States of America, of which there were three versions),and the battle flag of the state of Northern Virginia's Army.

    Of course the most lame and excused use of the Battle flag is the campaign literature and campaign buttons with Bill and Hillary's pictures standing with the flag and then later Al Gore's picture with the battle flag.

    Now I dare anyone to tell us what kind of racist these men and woman are using this racist symbol to get elected with what must be the racist southerners support.

    Proves liberals and democrats are racist just watch Hillary and Deblasio make their racist jokes. Woodrow Wilson, an old school progressive sited by Hillary, made segregation mandatory in the military and offices in DC.

    Since prior to the Civil War, the states were the highest level of authority, and Honor and Loyalty were esteemed to be of high moral principles and ideals, then let it stand for those who died with honor, loyalty and patriotism to their states.

  • Contrariuses mid-state, TN
    April 13, 2016 12:23 p.m.

    @jsf --

    "You mean like the U.S. flag that flew over our whole nation"

    The Union states solved the slavery issue **without** seceding from the Union, in case you didn't notice.

    "It seems a number of commentators are fully willing to commit genocide of the people that have a culture of all things Southern."

    Please stop clutching your pearls.

    In case you didn't notice my sig line, I'm a Southerner. I've lived 41 of my 53 years of life below the Mason-Dixon line. I would never dream of forcing private individuals nor museums to give up any symbols of the Confederacy they might like to wave around. But such symbols do NOT belong in the houses of our UNITED States government.

  • MaxPower Eagle Mountain, UT
    April 13, 2016 12:20 p.m.

    @jsf

    Are you saying we are on a road to killing all Southerners? I'm kind of confused as to what genocide has to do with all this.

    No is one tallking about wiping out Southern Culture, just whether or not it is appropriate to use a sign of rebellion as a symbol for a loyal state in the union

  • MaxPower Eagle Mountain, UT
    April 13, 2016 12:12 p.m.

    I don't think anyone is talking about banning the Confederate flag (free speech and and all) just whether or not it is appropriate to represent a State (who do not enjoy the same right as its people)

    We can discuss whether or not its racist, but ultimately it is a sign of Rebellion and treason.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    April 13, 2016 11:27 a.m.

    As defined by the U.N., one of the first steps of and part of the act of genocide, is to erase the history, culture, and monuments of a group, the victims.

    It seems a number of commentators are fully willing to commit genocide of the people that have a culture of all things Southern.

    From removing all memories, removing all monuments, removing any mention of these peoples heritage.

    They talk like they are willing to have removed from Arlington, all the remains of Confederate soldiers buried there. Or the monuments to the confederate soldiers that exist in Arlington. Maybe they would want to relocate all the northern and later US soldiers buried there. It is the plantation and farms of one Robert E. Lee. I mean doesn't that just scream of honoring slavery of the south.

  • Lagomorph Salt Lake City, UT
    April 13, 2016 11:25 a.m.

    SLars: "The South culture was so much more than a flag or slavery . . . but about the culture, food and diversity that existed there."

    Freedom Seeker: "It is also a fact that, over the years, the Confederate flag has simply become a symbol of southern pride."

    On the question of the Confederate flag vis-à-vis southern pride: Can you itemize a list of the positive qualities and virtues of the Old South that are represented by the Confederate flag and worthy of pride?

    Now, from your list--
    1) How many of those virtues are exclusively represented by the flag and cannot be represented by other symbols (e.g. copperheads, magnolias, Spanish moss, banjos)?
    2) How many of those virtues are mythologized qualities that are not actually grounded in historical fact (Rhett and Scarlet)?
    3) How many of those virtues are so good and wholesome that they aren’t completely negated by the stain of slavery and post-Civil War institutionalized racism (e.g. KKK, Jim Crow, Citizens Councils, segregation, etc.)?

    Does the flag’s adoption and co-optation by racist factions supersede any positive associations?

    Given its baggage, why not use a different emblem to express southern pride?

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    April 13, 2016 11:18 a.m.

    To black Americans, the stars and bars equate to the swastika for Jews.

    To black Mississippians, the stars and bars would be equivalent to the flag of Germany featuring the swastika because "after all, it's part of their history."

    "The Confederate flag is part of their culture, like pecan pie and grits for breakfast." Not so. I like bratwurst and sauerkraut, but that does NOT mean I like the Nazi flag. It does NOT stand for German "culture."

    Why, oh why don't conservatives understand these things? What is wrong with the conservative thinking mechanism other people have in their heads, otherwise known as a brain?

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    April 13, 2016 11:12 a.m.

    "That's a laugh, since we're talking about a flag used by people who thought they had the right to own people." You mean like the U.S. flag that flew over our whole nation, which has thirteen stripes representing the thirteen colonies and first states many of which believed you could own people both black and white. "During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers." if anyone, black or white, believes that slavery was only an African experience, then they’ve got it completely wrong."

    Those thirteen stripes still are included in the current flag, carried over from a period of slavery. But it is defended because of a adoption of the current flag in the sixties. But wait Mississippi adopted their flag years after the war and slavery.

  • Linus Bountiful, UT
    April 13, 2016 10:46 a.m.

    It is somewhat amusing to read comments from those who think they understand American history. There is so much "black-and-white" thinking here. Americans are proud of the Revolutionary War, fought in pursuit of independence from England. Loyalists called Colonial combatants "traitors." It was a civil war between those who wanted to keep the Colonies in the British Commonwealth and those who wanted the Colonies out.

    Americans condemn the Confederate States for seeking independence from the [non]United States of America. Northern loyalists called Confederate combatants "traitors." It was a civil war between those who wanted to keep the South in the [non]United States and those who wanted the South out. It was not a war between the purely virtuous North and the thoroughly evil South. There were numerous issues at play, and neither side owned the "high road."

    Even though I am glad the States are more united and still together, I am ashamed of that darkest hour in our Nation's history. There were horrendous abuses heaped upon the vanquished. Good people endured insufferable humiliations. Study the "Carpetbaggers."

    It is time to bury all the hard feelings. Stop vanquishing our brothers and sisters all.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    April 13, 2016 9:44 a.m.

    The most interesting part of this case to me is that the plaintiff is relying on an apparently new constitutional right to dignity put forth by Justice Kennedy in Obergefell. Justice Kennedy stated it as “equal dignity in the eyes of the law.”

    Now the question is, how do we apply this newfound constitutional right to 2016 American society. The first application was by Justice Kennedy in favor of government recognition 2-person same sex marriages. Now the plaintiff in this Mississippi case is saying that it can apply to visual symbols that are so caustic and repugnant that they infringe on the right to dignity of some Americans. If this Mississippi case is successful, is the next application of this new right to prohibit spoken words that infringe on the right to dignity? Where is this going and could it be somewhere we, as a society, do not really want to go?

  • Contrariuses mid-state, TN
    April 13, 2016 9:13 a.m.

    @65TossPowerTrap and @Freedom seeker --

    "a person has the constitutional right to burn the stars and stripes but not the constitutional right to display the bars and stars."

    Sorry, but you don't have it straight.

    Individuals should be allowed to fly whatever flag they wish. I have to drive past four battle flags being displayed on/in/around private homes every time I go to town. But that flag should NOT be displayed anywhere on government property, except maybe government-owned history museums. It is the symbol of traitors to our country who cost the lives of many thousands of US Citizens in their efforts to preserve slavery. It deserves no place of government honor.

    @Freedom Seeker --

    "everyone has their own rights to do as they please, so long as it doesn't harm me or others."

    But that's the thing. The battle flag DOES harm others by perpetuating the glorification of slave owners who fought to deny rights to other human beings.

    "they want to take away everyone else's freedom."

    That's a laugh, since we're talking about a flag used by people who thought they had the right to own people.

  • omni scent taylorsville, UT
    April 13, 2016 9:01 a.m.

    65TossPowerTrap: "So let me get this straight - a person has the constitutional right to burn the stars and stripes but not the constitutional right to display the bars and stars. Weird."

    Nope, not true. Lets separate what a person does vs. what the government does. A PERSON has the right both to burn the stars and stripes, and to display the confederate flag. The government (which is supposed to represent us all) should not use symbols that discriminate against any particular group (and neither should the government burn the stars and stripes).

    Not so weird. Does that clarify and straighten things out for you?

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    April 13, 2016 8:52 a.m.

    So let me get this straight - a person has the constitutional right to burn the stars and stripes but not the constitutional right to display the bars and stars. Weird.

  • omni scent taylorsville, UT
    April 13, 2016 8:26 a.m.

    HS Sport Dude: "The first slave states were from the North. Why is the American flag no banned?"

    The American flag we use has never been connected with slavery. It was adopted July 4th, 1960. The flag was adopted during a time when America was working to adopt civil rights.
    That, to me, is the interpretation of the current flag: not yet perfect in equality and civil rights, but working to improve it.

    Tumbleweed: "The Confederate flag is no more offensive to many blacks than the rainbow flag is to many Christians."

    The confederate flag is offensive to blacks because it represents the oppression of the African race. The LGBT community isn't trying to oppress Christians, in fact the opposite is true.

  • omni scent taylorsville, UT
    April 13, 2016 8:14 a.m.

    I like what Southern Rocker Tom Petty said about the confederate flag, and his past use of it on the "Southern Accents" album and tour:

    "Fortunately , that went away, but it left me feeling stupid. That's the word I can use: I felt stupid. If I had just been a little more observant about things going on around me, it wouldn't have happened... But when they wave that flag, they aren't stopping to think how it looks to a black person. I blame myself for not doing that. I should have gone around the fence and taken a good look at it... It's like how a swastika looks to a Jewish person. It just shouldn't be on flagpoles"

    This is just a few small excerpts of the interview. you should search to read the rest of it.

  • Contrariuses mid-state, TN
    April 13, 2016 7:58 a.m.

    @Ricardo Carvalho --

    "By that same standard, the Hawaii flag and Maryland flag should go too. It has significant elements of the British flag."

    You'd better go check that Maryland flag again. It has nothing to do with the British flag -- its flag uses the family banner of Maryland's founding family.

    As for Hawaii -- that state has a unique history, as I'm sure you'll acknowledge. But if you really want them to drop their state flag, give it a go. See how far you get.

    "It seems we also have a couple of flags with Native American symbolism (Oklahoma and New Mexico come to mind). To our shame, they were also enemies of the country at one time."

    Unlike the Confederate battle flag, the US was the major aggressor against the Native nations -- not the other way around.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    April 13, 2016 7:42 a.m.

    If you want to use that flag as your flag, there are flights out of the United States of America.

  • Freedom Seeker Riverton, UT
    April 13, 2016 7:11 a.m.

    It's a wonder to me that we have all these progressive liberal judges who are trying to rewrite American history. There is no doubt about the fact America did have a civil war between the North and the South. Each had their own flag to symbolize their allegiance to their side of the war. It is also a fact that, over the years, the Confederate flag has simply become a symbol of southern pride. What in the world is wrong with that. I'm a northerner but have lived in the south and completely understand this issue and it is not offensive to me in the slightest. Even if it was offensive to me everyone has their own rights to do as they please, so long as it doesn't harm me or others. Liberals on the other hand, if offended, demand everyone change to their way of thinking, they want to take away everyone else's freedom. That simply is evil, that is Satan's way--forced compliance.

  • Ricardo Carvalho Provo, UT
    April 13, 2016 6:05 a.m.

    By that same standard, the Hawaii flag and Maryland flag should go too. It has significant elements of the British flag. As all will recall, the Brits were an enemy early in the history of our country. I wonder how many other flags have some element of a former enemy. It seems we also have a couple of flags with Native American symbolism (Oklahoma and New Mexico come to mind). To our shame, they were also enemies of the country at one time.

  • Contrariuses mid-state, TN
    April 13, 2016 5:40 a.m.

    @HS Sport Dude --

    "Why is the American flag no banned?"

    The US flag is not banned because -- get this -- it's an emblem of the UNITY of our country.

    In stark contrast, the Confederate battle flag is an emblem of traitors who attempted to break up the country by mounting armed insurrection against it.

    "The Confederate Flag is more of a symbol of independence, loyalty"

    Nonsense.

    -- Jefferson Davis, 1860: "We recognize the fact of the inferiority stamped upon that race of men by the Creator, and from the cradle to the grave, our Government, as a civil institution, marks that inferiority."

    -- Alexander Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederacy, 1861: "Its (the Confederacy's) foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery . . . is his natural and normal condition."

    -- John B. Baldwin, Augusta County delegate to the Virginia Secession Convention, 1861: "... there is but one single subject of complaint which Virginia has to make against the government under which we live; a complaint made by the whole South, and that is on the subject of African slavery...."

  • I.wanttoknow Manti, UT
    April 13, 2016 3:14 a.m.

    I found the protesters sign in the photo interesting. Lee didn't own slaves didn't like slavery didn't believe in the southern cause, but he felt duty bound to stand with his state. I believe on that last point you can criticize him. But in that day and age duty and honor were the traits that were important to southerners back then.

  • Tumbleweed Centerville, UT
    April 12, 2016 11:36 p.m.

    The Confederate flag is no more offensive to many blacks than the rainbow flag is to many Christians.

  • Rational Animal Independence , UT
    April 12, 2016 11:09 p.m.

    Lou Montana from Colorado, I believe you are very confused by you argument. It was the Democratic Party that took control of the South and lead it to were it is today. For better or worse, it is the Democrats that lead to slavery. Have you ever heard of Abraham Lincoln, a Republican. He gave a speech about Emancipation. read it sometime.

  • HS Sport Dude Salt Lake City, UT
    April 12, 2016 9:27 p.m.

    I lived in Alabama 10 years..... Colorado for 6, California for 12, New York for 7, and Utah for 18. Of all those places, Alabama was by far the best (there in my 30's). Real people with huge hearts. People in Alabama are far less racist than what I have seen in any of the other states I have lived.

    The Civil war ended 150 years ago, slavery completely gone within 5 years of that end. The first slave states were from the North. Why is the American flag no banned?

    The Confederate Flag is more of a symbol of independence, loyalty, and not being pushed around by government. We should honor our first amendment and allow folks to have independent ideas.

    I'm getting a C-Flag and flying at my house.

  • Sanefan Wellsville, UT
    April 12, 2016 9:21 p.m.

    Lou Montana from Colorado, I believe you are very confused by you argument. It was the Democratic Party that took control of the South and lead it to were it is today. For better or worse, it is the Democrats that lead to slavery. Have you ever heard of Abraham Lincoln, a Republican. He gave a speech about Emancipation. read it sometime.

  • LOU Montana Pueblo, CO
    April 12, 2016 9:16 p.m.

    SLars,Provo,UT:

    "The South culture was so much more than a flag or slavery (considering the six states in the North) but about the culture, food and diversity that existed there."

    The six Northern States did not commit treason and wage war against the United States of America.


    Who is taking the South's culture and food away? Remove the flag of slavery and bigotry and keep your culture and food.

  • LOU Montana Pueblo, CO
    April 12, 2016 9:04 p.m.

    Why does it seem that the Republican Party is on the wrong side of every debate? Instead of using the killing of nine black citizen in Charleston, South Carolina as an opportunity to engage black Americans, they chose to jump to the other side of the tracks and defend the Confederate flag. It was the Republican's arrogance of ignoring the victims of the horrific shooting that initiated the movement to take down the confederate battle flag. Again they have proven to be their own worse enemy.

    For better or worse, Republican are to thank for the taking down of the confederate flag.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    April 12, 2016 8:30 p.m.

    This is rather interesting, considering the North had six slave states, and the emancipation proclimation did not apply to them.

    Last year coca cola had an ad that showed young Americans going into a town in Mexico, to help the indigionous people, and take them a coke. It was pulled when people complained about the loss of culture that would happen when we made them "like us".

    The South culture was so much more than a flag or slavery (considering the six states in the North) but about the culture, food and diversity that existed there. Now it's OK to destroy it and rewrite history and erase the past? That's wrong, we need to bring the truth back, including acknowledging slavery in the north.

  • Hank Jr Deer Ridge, UT
    April 12, 2016 8:28 p.m.

    Lest we should forget the lessons of history, the Confederate flag IS a part of American history. By censoring the flag we are denying history.