@lost in DCIf she abused her authority or broke the law, send her to jail.
I have no problem with her targeting likely suspects, our law enforcement does
it all the time. Several liberal groups were targeted as well. There is NO
evidence showing the WH instructed her to target conservative groups. If there
is, we have a scandal. But currently the only thing we have is
conservative's typical response that the media, goverment and the academia
hates them. Sorry, but I need more evidence than a few tin foil hats screaming
that they were all being persecuted by the dark side.
Riverton Cougar: Perfect SharpHooks, Esquire, FT. I M
LDS 2, Ajax: The left is not really in a position to lecture about
there anything "Conservatives" don't whine about? I've never
seen a group of people with such a deep sense of shared victimhood."Ironically it is not conservatives who make passive/aggressive
victimhood the center point of their political agenda: Your post is an
incredible example of left wing "projection" and merely proves the exact
opposite of what you intended: (and according to Obama [AKA the ultimate victim]
rules, if you disagree with me, you must be a "hater") Outside-View: Blaming the Supreme Court support for free
speech in order to rationalize the partisan weaponization of the IRS is quite
the stretch. ordinaryfolks"Less
reported, but true, is that liberal groups were also given this heightened
scrutiny."It is less reported because it is mostly a myth
designed to make the left feel less dirty. By most accounts: The IRS persecuted
292 Conservative groups to 6 Progressive groups. But even if you don't buy
that exact figure, it is completely disingenuous to claim that the scrutiny was
anywhere near similar.
ordinaryfolksDid the speakers of those rude comments use the IRS to
persecute the political opposition as the evidence here is indicating more and
more?Baccus0902 and ordinary folksThe rude comments
aren’t condemning in and of themselves, but they provide further suspicion
of the abuse of position in the IRS for political endsI see our
usual ib posters continuing their hate speech, after excoriating the right when
BO said the GOP should just stop hating.Tell me, sharphooks,
esquire, FT, IM LD_2, Ajax, GaryOWhy is it OK for the left to hate, but
the GOP has to mildly accept everything BO throws their way and say
“please, sir, may I have some more?” Why the double standard? Oh,
I know, because it has ALWAYS been that way!Baccus0902,Innocent until proven guilty is not how the left here views our former
attorneys general. It only applies to liberals - see double standard comment
above. That said, if the former AGs are found guilty, throw the book at them.
@ordinaryfolks@EsquireThere is no evidence any leftist or
liberal group was ever targeted.To claim as such is to want to
believe a lie.ONLY conservative groups were ever targeted.
Lost in all of this are two issues. First, tax policy and the resulting burden
put on the IRS to try to ensure compliance (and we know there are lots of
cheaters in these organizations) set up this problem. Second, there were other
similarly situated groups of other persuasions also subject to the same
scrutiny. I wonder, I just wonder, if the right wing groups might have been
more abusive of the law.....
Let me get this right. With Shurtleff and Swallow there was no evidence of any
misdeed when the accusations first came out and the liberals here were calling
for them to be put into prison. Now, when one of their own is being accused of
something they just tell us to ignore it? Where is the consistency? It looks
like liberals just want to pound conservatives and don't actually care
about truth or justice.Liberals should also know that legally Ms.
Lerner's emails and the data on her computer should have been backed up.
So, either she was illegally targeting conservative groups or else she has
illegally prevented her data from being backed up. Either way she has broken
laws, and should answer for what she has done.
bias against conservatives ? No - say it ain't so!!! Really - little
liberal Lois hates conservatives? Gee I wonder if Lois talked to Barack before
the election of 2012 and decided to intimidate conservatives with the power of
the IRS ....nah it couldn't happen in American could it???? Our IRS and
President are much too honest to do such a terrible thing.....and if you like
your insurance and doctor you can keep your insurance and doctor period.
Baccus0902:You are right. Ms Lerner is "innocent until proven
guilty". I guess when the other side proclaims "there isn't a
smidgen of corruption", it is easy to assume and say the opposite.But we certainly are entitled to the truth. The alleged abuses of power by
this woman need to be thoroughly investigated.So let's stop all
the stonewalling, lying, insisting the investigation is a witch hunt, causing
delays, and telling everyone there is nothing to see here. Find the truth and
act on it or it will happen again, and again, and ...
@ Utah Blue Devil. I do not understand how you can say we are not leaning to a
more totalitarian government but I know the majority of Germans believed that as
well in 1932!
I read this right after reading the article about Obama whining about being
"hated". Then I read these comments. Oh, the hypocrisy of the left!
"Defending the indefensible is getting very difficult isn't it? Sooner
or later anything is acceptable from government, as we have seen in every
totalitarian nation's history!"I wish it wasn't true,
but this kind of stuff has been part of "politics" and government for
ever. The same thing happened when Bush fired a bunch of Justice Department
lawyers for doing nothing more wrong then being registered as Democrats. And
just like this, his administration refused to comply with congressional subpoena
and many were charge with contempt of congress.Her views may in fact
be valid for a certain segment of the conservative movement, but, as a public
servant she needs to take the high ground and treat all groups the same,
regardless of her own personal feelings.But we are in no way leaning
towards a more totalitarian government than we were 10 years ago, or 30 years
ago. You want to see government over reach, lets discuss McCarthy and what he
did. We are not even close to that level of intrusion.
Wow. This must be a painful stretch for liberals to defend this woman and her
minions. Why would she have to hide behind the 5th Amendment? What is she
hiding? If she did her job, without bias and discrimination, there would be
nothing to talk about here. The evidence, whether circumstantial or not, points
to a pattern of intolerance towards groups that didn't toe her ideological
line or were a threat politically to Democrats and ultimately her leash holder
Barak Hussein Obama. If this person was at all related to the Bush
Administration the howls for punitive measures would be screaming from these
pages from guys like Ranch, Gary, and Ordinary. Hypocrisy is an ugly thing.
SCfan. I meant a good politician in that he knows what to say to get elected.
I don't think he is a good leader. He has not "reached across the
aisle". The only time he got things done was when he had the house and
senate at his disposal.
@ JoeCapitalist 2Joe, I agree almost 100% with your post. If you
allow me I would change the sentence below."The same goes for
Lois Lerner and any other liberals who have targeted conservatives with abusive
power".I would change it to:The same
"SHOULD" go for Lois Lerner and any other liberals "IF THEY ARE
FOUND TO " have targeted conservatives with abusive power.I
think we still believe in "innocent until proven guilty". Right?
"A former IRS official at the heart of the agency's tea party
controversy called some right-wing Republicans "crazies" . . . "So what?Even many "Conservatives" are fully aware
that "some right-wing Republicans" are crazy . . . or act like it.America's vast Right Wing attracts crazies who call themselves
patriots . . . the cop murderers in Las Vegas . . . the guy who stood outside a
synagogue and randomly shot Jewish-looking people . . . the late great Timothy
McVeigh.What we have here is an ex-IRS official who happens to be
quite perceptive . . . Nothing wrong with that. I guess
"Conservatives" must be complaining about a lack of political
correctness. But haven't "Conservatives" been complaining about too
much political correctness?Is there anything "Conservatives"
don't whine about? I've never seen a group of people with such a deep
sense of shared victimhood.
I am conservative. I personally think that the modern liberal progressive
movement is wrong and that many of its supporters are misguided. But I also
believe that it is their right to have those feelings and be able to freely
speak about their opinions.But that does not extend to actions taken
by government officials who mix their personal feelings into the duties they
perform.If there are any conservatives in government positions of
power who think that liberals are "crazies" and then use that power to
target individuals and group with whom they disagree, then those abusers should
be caught and prosecuted according to the law.The same goes for Lois
Lerner and any other liberals who have targeted conservatives with abusive
power.Tyrany happens when you let "your guy" get too much
power and ignore or excuse their misdeeds just because you agree with their
IDCI agree with everything you said except a couple of things. I
don't think Obama is highly intelligent, or a good politician. If he was,
he would have been smart enough, like Bill Clinton was when it happened to him,
to realize that after the 2010 House going Republican, and staying that way 2
years later, he would need to bridge that gap that the American people put in
place. That's what a good politician and leader does. Clinton by the way,
actually won seats in the mid-term during in his 2nd term. (It does not look
like that will happen for Obama.) Now that's a smart politician. I
didn't like him, but can't deny he knew how to get things done. Obama
is a pretty good speaker, but after watching him now, it all seems pretty much
canned. Definately not a Kennedy or Reagan when it comes to great speaking. I
do like his suits and ties though. He is probably the best dressed President
we've ever had.
What is the crime here?Using the office Blackberry to personal
e-mails? I'm sure that is a violation. However, I'm sure our Christian
GOP friends whouldn't dare to throw the first stone unless they were not
free of the same fault. Otherwiase it would hypocritical and that would be
crazy!Or may be the crime here is that while she was travelling and
needed to kill some time she wrote e-mails to a friend using derogatory terms
toward our GOP friends.No, that cannot be. That would be crazy as well.Well, the article doesn't tell us what is the crime, or what is the
proof of the crime, but we know there was a crime. But we expect they will dig
until they find " a crime".This is crazy!!
I seriously question the thinking of anyone who would disagree with Lois
Lerner's observations of the ultra right. What is wrong with telling the
Once again politicians exaggerate the results of polical issue based on a
persons action. While she called some Tea Party groups "crazies" she
probably had other emails where she called extreme liberal groups "wing
nuts" or something else. How many groups really had their
applications denied? Since all of this occured as a result of the Supremen
Court decision that allowed more PAC and Corporate involvement in policical
activities, I think increased scrutiny of those new groups applying for tax
exempt staus would be expected.
They are crazies and more. Unfortunately, government has to accept them.
Defending the indefensible is getting very difficult isn't it? Sooner or
later anything is acceptable from government, as we have seen in every
totalitarian nation's history!
GOP "crazies" does not mean all Republicans. It only means those Tea
Partiers who hijacked the GIP and think they can launder political contributions
through tax exempt organizations.That is crazy!
Sticks and stones. I don't care if she hates conservatives or even if she
hates me personally. If she targeted people and used the IRS to punish them,
she needs to go to prison for a very long time along with anyone who was
complicit with this. Abusing the tax system by using it to attack people is a
serious violation of freedom. Liberals and conservatives should find this
disgusting.I think Obama is highly intelligent, a great speaker, and
an even better politician. I just think his ideas are bad and that he is trying
to create a nation of dependents and victims.
Most of us know the GOP is full of crazies but you can't use your position
to target them. Still see no crime here and there is definetly nothing here
tying the WH in. Unless your one of those "crazies" who blindly hates
BO first then creates some alternate reality to justify your opinion.
Funny thing is, she is right about what she said.
She is correct in her description of the GOP
Is it any wonder why she is hiding under the blanket of the 5th Amendment. How
many other appointed officials in government who are supposed to be "public
servents" have an atitude like that. My guess is thousands. And we all
know that the federal work force is very pro Democrat Party, because it is the
Democrats that are always supporting the public service unions and expanding
government and increasing pay, to the point that having an equivelent job in the
private sector pays less and has less benefits. Imagine that. People working
in private jobs are paying the taxes for the government jobs that give more. A
system like that will ultimately fail. And don't say everyone should have
a government job. If you believe that can work, you've read too much Karl
Marx, and have too much faith in Kaynesian economics.
Isn't that ironic! Especially from the so called party of diversity and
acceptance. They accept all people that think or believe as they do. If you dare
to have an opinion then you are no longer can be part of the discussion.The end result, is $19 Trillion of debt. Illegals flooding into the
country with growing crime. Fewer jobs. Less benefits. A bigger divide in this
country. Republicans can also share the blame. However, democrats
are mostly in control of this country right now, and have chosen to take us down
the crap shoot. Rather than fixing the issues we face.
I remember some very impolite comments coming from officials of the government
during the Bush administration. Nobody on the right had much to say about it
since it did not gore one of their sacred oxen. In fact, they lied to us all
about Iraq and outed a secret agent. And nobody has done anything about the
former, and only one person got punished for a "technicality", not the
crime.Now, what Lerner apparently did using (government equipment
for personal communications) was wrong. You certainly have her there
conservatives. However, to think that people don't have personal political
views who serve in government is just plain nonsense. The proof of having views
that influences decisions is a bit harder to take do.It is obvious
that some conservative groups were delayed or denied tax free status because
there were questions about their true nature. Less reported, but true, is that
liberal groups were also given this heightened scrutiny.I really
don't see the crime yet, but it does make good theatre.