Ah yes, as is typical, the elderly are disapproving of the young. Guess what,
John Charity Spring and other oldsters -- your parents and grandparents thought
YOU were going to heck in a hand basket as well. You all sound like the old guy
yelling at the kids to get off his grass. Lighten up. The young people are
doing just fine.
I love how the right seems to fling about charges of socialism around, as if it
is some great evil.Our closet allies in the world find socialism
quite useful in their government. It does not always work so well in some
arenas (perhaps the economic ones), but it does seem to insure a rather orderly
society with a great deal of freedoms.And when I look at our
enemies, they look more and more like pure oligarchies or Ayn Rand paradises.
Don't like that.
@Stormwalker Religion or the belief system of the leftReligion of the left has been far worse, and has affected far many more people
in a shorter time.@pragmatistferlifeIt is not just
simply communal ownership. that is over simplification, to the point where
socialism has no meaning. if things no longer have a very specific meaning they
become something without meaning or the mean whatever someone like yourself
wants them to mean.Neither is a good outcome.Any
reasonable source on various ideologies describes socialism much more
accurately, that is the socialism is the communal ownership of the means of
production.In any form of socialism it ultimately leads to
centralized of federal control over everything and everyone.No one
has any rights but what this central authority gives.Sounds like
religion?Welcome to the true left.By attacking religion
You are simply replacing one the at true religions heart cherishes free agency
and rights of individual to uplift and progress man for another that does not
but only seeks only to control for control's sake.
re : GaryO[That's what happens when people let Rush Limbaugh
and Right Wing Radio do their thinking for them. Common sense goes out the
window.]Please. 1st think a conservative does is give common sense
& rational thought the heave ho wherever they go. to the
truth[You can chain your self to death with laws and regulations
governing and controlling every aspect of your life or you can die in a
"socialist" killing field, **what difference is there?***]Hopefully, no more listening to the simple regurgitate Hannity and quite
poorly at that.
re Bob K..."Or is Utah somehow conducive to living in a time
warp?"I don't think its a time warp. Its people your age
that are Utah natives who can't/won't adapt to Utah growing and as
such becoming more diverse.
@the truth: "And bottom line it is all about control. About elites defining
what is "good" for everyone else."Sounds like religion
to me. Especially a religion with many rules that limit behavior and exert
control over every aspect of daily life. A religion that claims authority from
god and identifies outsiders as enemies to god and his ways. A religion that has
political power and works - behind the scenes, mostly - to have theology and
doctrine incorporated into civil law. Talk about control. Every bad
act can be justified as god's will and any who question or disagree are
heretics to be dealt with harshly. Socialism can go bad or be okay -
look at Scandinavia, for example. But religion in power is always horrible. And
your religion - whatever it is - would be just as bad as the Catholic Church in
the dark ages or parts of Islam today. Power corrupts...
"You can play with words and make up your own definitions all you want but
we know who the socialists are."Sorry truth you have no idea
what you are talking about. Socialism is simply communal ownership. Communism
is government ownership of the means of production. In communism the workers
didn't own or profit in or from the means of production. Communism was a gross aberration and distortion of socialistic principles laid
over a 700 year old social structure and history. BTW it was a conscious and
purposeful aberration by Lenin. Do yourself a favor "truth" and read.
@redshirt. I would say most people do not know what the definition of socialism
is. It is evident by all the conservatives who throw that word around without
knowing what socialism means.
@GaryOI am sure it does to you. The extreme left loves to redefine
everything in to meaninglessness.@pragmatistferlifeSoviet union - USSR - union of soviet SOCIALIST republicsChina -
acall themselves Democratic SocialistsNazis - National socialists,
Natihnal Socialist party of the German worker.A top Nazi leader
called Communists and Nazis "siblings"Fabian Socialists -
invented the gas chamber, wanted people to have to before a board to justify
their existence.You can play with words and make up your own
definitions all you want but we know who the socialists are.And
bottom line it is all about control. About elites defining what is
"good" for everyone elseYou can go slow and lose your
freedom a tiny bit at a time with a more moderate form of socialism, or get to
the end game fast with a more extreme version. But it is all leading to the
same place eve one way or the other.You can chain your self to death
with laws and regulations governing and controlling every aspect of your life
or you can die in a "socialist" killing field, what difference is
@ the judgeHigh school students learn American history up to the
civil war in jr high and then from the civil war to the present day their
junior/senior years.So perhaps your high school students just
haven't taken the 2nd half of American history yet?Sounds to me
that the parents really have failed to teach them the basics. Also, the Berlin
Wall isn't representative of Socialism. The Soviets were communists not
socialists. Perhaps you need to take a basic high school American history class?
@The JudgeKaysville, UTIn my office I have a piece of the
Berlin wall. In the course of my work I have dozens of high school students come
to see me. It's frightening how many of these juniors and seniors ask about
the piece of concrete on my desk, and stare at me blankly when I tell them
it's a part of the Berlin Wall. They've never heard of it. And
they've never heard of the horrors of socialism, because, as someone
pointed out, we failed to teach them.7:06 a.m. July 26, 2014======== Did you tell them "the Wall" was put up by those
telling their people they were doing so to keep other s out?[like;
Conservatives and their Mexico Wall] Only to have the oppose effect?
[Keep those wishing to get out, in?]Did you tell them that the
COMMUNISTS were in East Germany, and that West Germany is SOCIALIST --
like we are debating right now?It would seem you don't even
have a clear understanding as to which is which...U.S. Military
Veteran, Ramstein AFB, Kaiserslauten, West Germany
" And they've never heard of the horrors of socialism"I'm not positive what you're referring to as the horrors of
socialism but I'm going to assume you mean Russia, China, Cuba etc.If that is the case I'm afraid you've just displayed a gapping
lack of both historical and economic knowledge. Talk about the pot.....Socialism is not communism. In addition the horrors of Communism are
simply a borrowed ideology laid over the social and economic system that had
existed in Russia since the 1300's. I presume your library is void of any
Russian history. Sweden, Denmark, etc. are much closer to socialism
and while you may or may not want to be like them you certainly couldn't
describe them as horrors. In fact the happiest people in the world live in
Hey "the Truth" -"NONE of what you described is actually
socialism."As with many words, the word "Socialism" can
have more than one meaning . . . Quite separate and distinct meanings depending
on context.Obviously, most of the "Conservatives" on this
board convolute, confuse, and mix those meanings into a pasty conglomeration and
apply it to anyone who wants good governance.Thus for them, Obama
and the Democrats are Marxist Fascist Socialists who oppose the American way.That's what happens when people let Rush Limbaugh and Right Wing
Radio do their thinking for them.Common sense goes out the window.
@Open Minded MormonNONE of what you described is actually
socialismTechnically socialism describes the communal ownership of
the means of production, however, roads, water, police etc. do represent the
socialization of risks and needs rather than the private ownership of those
items. Peas in the same pod, community.BTW, communal ownership
doesn't necessarily mean govt. ownership. It all depends on how you define
the community. Worker owned companies (of which there are hoards of successful
examples in America) would be socialism at work. Kind of ironic
that the right believes in government as close to the individual as possible but
doesn't believe in an economy run as close to the worker as possible.
Why doesn't it surprise me that the first comment on this story came from
John Charity Spring, expressing his moral outrage about issues that weren't
even mentioned in the study?Did you happen to notice that
Millennials are the least likely group to want to be, or approve of being,
single parents?Did you notice that they think success comes because
of a good work ethic, hard work, or ambition?A lot of JCS type of
comments were made about my Generation- Generation X. Guess what? The world
hasn't fallen apart now that we're taking the reigns and running
businesses, holding government positions, and raising families (many of our
children are the Millennials).It seems that the same kinds of things
were said about the Baby Boomers- they raised Generations X and Y, are
retiring, enjoying their grandchildren, and doing good in the world.It's amazing how the previous generations always see the younger ones as
being so much worse than they were, yet the world keeps on turning, and along
comes the next generation...
Millennials are what you get after a generation of not teaching history.
Generally speaking (certainly not all of you, blackattack), millennials have no
idea of the principles upon which the country is based. They have no notion of
the failures of socialism world wide, or the economic education to understand
that the way to end poverty is capitalism.In my office I have a
piece of the Berlin wall. In the course of my work I have dozens of high school
students come to see me. It's frightening how many of these juniors and
seniors ask about the piece of concrete on my desk, and stare at me blankly when
I tell them it's a part of the Berlin Wall. They've never heard of it.
And they've never heard of the horrors of socialism, because, as someone
pointed out, we failed to teach them.
Liked all the yellow I saw. I hope more people will wale up and realize that All
Obama ever was is a clone of Bush. He has just duped his cult followers into
thinking his policies are different when they are exactly the same. I dont know
why Conservatives love Bush, he was more liberal than Clinton because he tripled
the size of Government. The next president will be worse than obama unless they
@Open Minded MormonNONE of what you described is actually
socialism.Which proves the graphic that only 16% know what socialism
The thing we need to remember about Millennial's is that the older
generation made them this way.
@JCS and other typical DN commenters who have not yet chimed in to this
topic...-- Out here in the rest of the world, even those like me who
are pushing 70, are surprised to read pretty much what we heard when Bob Dylan
and the Beatles were being criticized 50 years ago. It's probably what was
written about the "flappers and sheiks" in 1925.I wonder if
these comments are posted by the great-grandchildren of the guys who originally
made them, just to mess with us? Or is Utah somehow conducive to living in a
@RedShirtUSS Enterprise, UTI think one of the most telling things
about Conservatives is that 100% of them will all trash talk -- but will sign-up
and accept Social Security & Medicare, call 911 for Fire or Police
Departments, attend Public school and Libraries, and drive on roads, drink
water, and use the intenet, and have Families -- Socialism.
@blackattackTry not to take it personal. Sadly as you very wisely
noted older gereations tend to view the younger generations very negatively,
that is nothing new, but the facts speak clearly for themselves with each
passing generation we slowly move towards a more fair and just society, this
coupled with the fact that crime and abortion rates are very low shows the
positive trend that your generation is very much a part of. There will always be
a few "bad seeds" in each generation but my experience with your
generation has left me feeling very good about the future of our country and our
I think one of the most telling things about the study was that only 16% of
millennials actually know what socialism is. The ironic thing is that a
majority support capitalism and want to be the heads of corporations and make
profits. If so few know what socialism is, and knowing that they are socially
liberal, it is easy to convince them to support any public program you want.
You just have to tell them that is for everybody's good, and that it will
somehow be paid for.
I'm a millennial and was raised by good baby-boomer parents who were
responsible and taught me to be so. I dislike when our generation is labeled as
"lazy", entitled basement dwellers who play video games all day. There
always seems to be a pessimistic view of the younger generation. Painting with a
broad brush is unfair to those who work hard to make our world better. There were bad decisions made by some influential baby boomers: Free
love and drugs, two wars that have left many millennials dead, the worst
recession since the 1930s, fewer jobs and lower salaries, exponential rises in
healthcare and college costs, abortion and no-fault divorce laws, and a
self-esteem movement that encouraged entitlement. However, there
are many baby boomers who do indeed make our world better. It's never fun
to be stereotyped though.
Each generation adds its part to the increasing selfishness and general lack of
moral values. While there aree certainly many individuals within wach
generation that are selfless and moral, as a society we get worse with eahc
generation.This may stem from a higher tolerance for selfichness and
immorality in the prior generation. For example, I have seen parents justify
buying their teenagers alcohol and letting them throw parties at theie house
because "they are going to drink anyway, so they may as well drink at
home".The slide may look gradual, but the result is
This is why Huntsman would make a strong general election candidate for the
Republicans. @JCS"The only thing surprising about this
poll is that anyone is surprised that today's young people have
contradictory and even hypocritical political views."I'm
pretty sure you think the deficit is a major problem that needs to be addressed
and support tax cuts.
This might be the first time I have seen a comment from John Charity Spring.
To see it hurts, because I know that there are thousands of Utahns who
believe exactly what he wrote. In fact, I suspect that this type of sentiment
is much more pervasive than most millennials would want to believe. Franky,
it's unfair and unhelpful. Millennials have many challenges ahead of them.
But nobody should be under the impression that John Charity's generation
did them any favors. That generation (baby boomer?) certainly left
the world worse off than when they found it. That generation certainly
can't claim the moral high ground here. In fact, I would wager that there
were more abortions, drug use, government entitlements per capita amongst that
generation than there are amongst Millennials.
@jcsThe wording of this headline is very poor, what the study shows
is that like any generation not people from that generation think a like they
are a diverse group with diverse ideas but don't let that stand in the way
of your moral outrage.
Yet another group for whom JCS has little respect - people younger than himself.
He has made them feel the wrath of several generalizations, and plans to go
right on shaking his finger in their general direction.
Ages 18-29 voted 48% for Al GoreAges 18-29 voted 58% for Barrack ObamaAges 18-29 voted 60% to re-elected ObamaNot because they
"like" Democrats, but becuase they "DIS-Like" the
Republicans!That should be saying something.The trend
continues....The GOP is loosing the -- Black, Hispanic, Asian,Women,Gay / Lesbian, and the
Young People.and they have no-one else to blame but themselves...
I feel that if you polled any generation you'd find contradictory views in
the overall percentages. That being said, the most interesting find
was education's effects on political persuasion. More education = more
liberal. I know I've found that to be true in my own education. Learning
about diversity and the plights of different groups (groupings such as: race,
class, religion, and sexuality) helped me to understand them better (though I
know I can always strive to understand more). Understanding brings my desire
for social change so that some groups aren't inherently advantaged over
others.I wish everyone took a slew of differing diversity classes.
The more you know, the better decisions you can make. And hey, after someone
has done a deep dive into learning about a group and their struggles if they
still want to discriminate or keep that group at a disadvantage at least
we'd know they made that decision conscientiously.
@John Charity Spring"Today's young people want politicians who
advocate individual pleasure over responsibility. They want the ability to
engage in unrestrained use of alcohol, marijuana, and recreational sex. In
addition, they demand that the government force the taxpayers to fund birth
control to make it all possible."That's surely not the
young people I know and work with. I feel our country is in very good hands
with today's youth. I have more concern about our older, Faux News,
citizens who want no personal freedoms for anyone else while demanding
politicans protect their monthly social security stipend.
The only thing surprising about this poll is that anyone is surprised that
today's young people have contradictory and even hypocritical political
views.Today's young people want politicians who advocate
individual pleasure over responsibility. They want the ability to engage in
unrestrained use of alcohol, marijuana, and recreational sex. In addition, they
demand that the government force the taxpayers to fund birth control to make it
all possible.Essentially, what they demand is a political system of
entitlements. They believe that, simply because they exist, they are entitled
to have their every want and need provided by the government.