Colorado leaders seek gay-marriage resolution

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  • Laura Bilington Maple Valley, WA
    July 5, 2014 9:10 a.m.

    Light and Liberty writes, "(Homosexuality) truly affects society". You are right.

    More specifically, the condemnation of homosexuality by religions with a dominant presence in children's lives is highly correlated with the suicide rate of young men in their teens and early twenties.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    July 4, 2014 1:35 p.m.

    My friends higv and Life and Liberty,

    I must tell you that you questioning somebody else life is very insulting. But, we shouldn't be too sensitive at this time of the game.

    As a missionary and as LDS I used to believe and preach the same things you do. The difference was, that I was mostly preaching to my self.

    Have you read the book "The Miracle of Forgiveness" (TMOF)? Reading that book as a teenager was a great painful joy. It opened my eyes to the fact that "I was not the only one that way", and that was consolation for me.

    Of course, TMOF also made feel as a big sinner and very defective human being. However, it also provided a challenge and hope for change.

    I took the TMOF challenge. For more than 15 years. Until one day I said no more, and concluded my fight against myself with one of the most fervent prayers of my life.... Surprise, surprise,..The Lord made me know that I didn't need to changer anything. I was his son and he loves and accepts me just the way I am.

  • Hugh1 Denver, CO
    July 4, 2014 1:55 a.m.

    @Life and Liberty, Gay marriage would be voter approved in Colorado now, but that's not what I want. I want the courts to protect my constitutional right to equal protection. The LGBTI alphabet is an indicator of who you are, and it's not a change thing. When Mormon and Catholic parents (and others) hear the words, "Mom and dad, I think I'm gay," they are often dumbstruck. The advice you offered, that "God isn't going to change the laws of the universe to accommodate errant children," is impractical, it will assuredly destroy the fabric of the family, and will do great damage to the child. Many parents today come to the realization that their gay child cannot change, and that God would never ask them to abandon the child they will love into eternity. God didn't make a mistake. Making laws to prevent your gay child from having a family is cruel, and it also violates your child's right to equal protection under the law. You cannot vote away those constitutional guarantees.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    July 3, 2014 8:59 p.m.

    @Bacauus God did not make anyone gay, though same gender attraction may be one of the many things from the fall of Adam. I think it is Corinthians that says let no man say he is tempted of God. God made me hurt children, gave me a violent temper, made me shoplift. You are blaming God so you don't have to repent of your sins.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    July 3, 2014 3:05 p.m.

    @ Light and Liberty
    You wrote:
    " Homosexuality is wrong, no matter how many reasons you come up with to make it right! "

    What can I say to that? To believe as you believe is your right as a human being and fully respect that. However, you don't have the right to attempt to make your religious biases the law of the land, infringing on other peoples rights.

    Kalindra told you that SSM doesn't hurt you. But your bigotry hurts others.

    Ranch wrote to you: "What makes you think he(we) didn't get an answer? I got an answer and it wasn't the one you want me to have gotten! That doesn't mean it was wrong." I endorsed that answer.

    I understand that you don't understand. However, I also hope that you and other of your ilk will become to a higher understanding as society progresses.

    God is part of our lives, you may believe this or not. It doesn't make a difference to us. But it can make a difference to you.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    July 3, 2014 2:13 p.m.

    @Light and Liberty;

    Since god is fictional, then marriage is not "ordained" at all. What you're really saying is that YOU aren't going to change; since it is impossible for a fictional being to have a position one way or the other.

    "No, I would as k you to get down on your hands and knees and ask God to lead you toward the light of His word,..."

    If you had any idea how many hours most of us have spent on our knees begging for change, you would not believe as you do.

    "Baccus: just because you didn't get an answer doesn't validate that you are gay. "

    What makes you think he(we) didn't get an answer? I got an answer and it wasn't the one you want me to have gotten! That doesn't mean it was wrong.

  • Light and Liberty St. George/Washington, UT
    July 3, 2014 1:13 p.m.

    Baccus: just because you didn't get an answer doesn't validate that you are gay. You made a decision for whatever reason, but that is not a good enough reason when it comes to God's word. I have been in personal ruts myself for many years until I rid myself of the philosophies of men, invalid traditions, and my own self absorption. Once I did that, it was truly amazing how easy it was to move forward and leave the darkness behind. I am sure God looks at all of His children and shakes His head sometimes, and in some cases basically says, "go ahead, you want a king, you can have one, but don't come running to me when you have to face the consequences of your poor choices!" Homosexuality is wrong, no matter how many reasons you come up with to make it right! I have empathy for your struggle, but I have to stand up for any one that may fall prey to your influence and philosophy. It truly affects society, and for that I must hold the line!

  • Testimony Philadelphia, PA
    July 3, 2014 12:22 p.m.

    re God "ordaining" marriage:

    Historically, civil law did not require any marriage ceremony. In Catholicism, marriage was considered a sacrament and regulated by canon law.

    During the Reformation, the Protestants reduced the list of seven Catholic sacraments to two: baptism and communion. Subsequently, mandatory civil marriage appeared in some Protestant lands, initially in John Calvin's Geneva.

    After the French Revolution, religious ceremonies could still be performed, but the State did not recognize them. This was incorporated into the Napoleonic Code and subsequently spread throughout Europe.

    In Western Europe today, the general view is that the chief purpose of marriage is civil in nature, to settle legal issues such as joint ownership of property, child custody, etc.

    In our own hemisphere, even prominently Catholic Latin American countries mandate civil marriage at the government Registrar's office, including Brazil and Argentina. A church wedding is optional, but not sufficient on its own.

    In the U.S., clerics are licensed to perform civil weddings, allowing the civil and religious ceremonies to be rolled into one. This is certainly not the rule everywhere.

    [sourced in part from rationalwiki]

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 3, 2014 10:47 a.m.

    @ L&L: You believe in and worship a God who does not approve of same-sex marriage and think that our secular laws should be based on your religious beliefs.

    Quaker believes in and worships a God who recognizes and supports same-sex marriage and he thinks that secular law should allow them and that each religion should decide for itself what it believes and allows.

    There are many religions and religious individuals who feel the way you do and many others who feel the way Quaker does.

    How do we decide which one prevails? Currently there are a great many things that are legal that one religion or another considers to be sinful. Do we eliminate everything that any religion views as wrong? Or do we compromise and realize that legality and morality are not necessarily the same thing and just because something is legal does not mean everyone thinks it is right?

    Legalizing same-sex marriage causes no harm to you or your religion. Prohibiting same-sex marriage does, however, cause a very real harm to other individuals and religions. Laws should be written to prevent/reduce harm and, therefore, same-sex marriage should be legal.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    July 3, 2014 10:17 a.m.

    @ Light and Liberty
    You wrote: "Now, you want me to do that with a ten minute re-evaluation and blithely come to your conclusion, as if I never had a brain or intuition"

    But, that is exactly what you are asking of me and millions of others.

    As a young returned missionary I was encouraged to look and marry my eternal companion, supposedly a girl. Look I did! Dated and dated many different girls (I was considered a good catch :-)

    My mission President, my Bishop and my Stake President knew about my same sex attraction. Before my mission I was interwied about this by a visitng General Authority.

    After my dating galore, my same sex attraction didn't decrease but increased. I was thirty and I was eating Beef Jerky.

    I looked for Medical Help. Treatment, after many months of physically and emotionally painful therapy I was still gay and not attracted to women. Bisexuality would have been an improvement, but not even that.

    Years of being on my hands and knees, led me to the Light of God. I have God's and my own acceptance. That is not in your books, but it is in my life.

  • Light and Liberty St. George/Washington, UT
    July 3, 2014 9:53 a.m.

    Baccus: your challenge to me is interesting. Think about this. You want me to reject the word of God; thousands of years of tradition, both secular and otherwise; My own experience; observations from nature; anatomical coherence with male and female bodies; common sense; and spiritual conviction. Now, you want me to do that with a ten minute re-evaluation and blithely come to your conclusion, as if I never had a brain or intuition! No, I would as k you to get down on your hands and knees and ask God to lead you toward the light of His word, which declares that marriage is between a man and women, despite your inclinations and human weakness (which we all have).

    P.S. No, I would not accept My son or daughter's misdiagnosis of what ails them. I would, however, continue to love them as God would want me to do, for I am in as much need of God's help as they would be.

  • A Quaker Brooklyn, NY
    July 3, 2014 9:48 a.m.

    Listen. God does not ordain marriages. If He did, I'm sure in His infinite power and wisdom, he'd match us up so we wouldn't have 50% divorce rates.

    Martin Luther (15th Century leader of the Protestant Reformation, not MLK'Jr) said flat out that marriage registration is not a church matter, but a secular one. Several European nations still do not recognize church marriages. If you don't also marry in City Hall, you're not married.

    In our Quaker marriage tradition, under the care and witness of our Meeting we dedicate ourselves to each other and to God, but it is the couple doing the dedicating, not the other way around. I've witnessed a same-sex couple marrying in this fashion, and the sense of the Meeting, felt clearly in our hearts, was that God was smiling on us.

    So, let's follow the original Protestant tradition, and let marriage be a secular affair. Your church may bless it or not as your tradition leads, but let's not lecture each other on what God wants.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    July 3, 2014 8:53 a.m.

    @ Light and Liberty

    L&L I have had close female friends for 40 yearas as well. and as you wrote, that doesn't say anything.

    You bring God into this equation. Well, let me tell you: God made me gay!
    Why? I don't know.

    Would God would like for me to marry one of his daughters knowing that I would never be able to love her with the intensity a spouse deserve to be loved?

    L&L Would you be happy or at least willing to accept that one of your daughters marry a man who has a strong same sex attraction and no sexual desire for your daugther?

    If you cannot say Yes! to that question I would suggest for you to re-evaluate your position on this isuue.

  • Light and Liberty St. George/Washington, UT
    July 2, 2014 11:02 p.m.

    Hugh: I have had close male friends for 40 years as well. That doesn't say anything! Marriage is still ordained of God and is between a man and a women. With all due respect, God isn't going to change the laws of the universe to accommodate errant children. If He did, He would cease to be God and we might as well start playing marbles because nothing else would make sense!

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    July 2, 2014 10:57 p.m.

    Millennial old? I suppose history really does not matter if you feel free to rewriter it to o fit your religious beliefs.

  • Hugh1 Denver, CO
    July 2, 2014 10:26 p.m.

    Considering the tenacity with which some fight against gay marriage, it makes you wonder, why? No gay family members? Brothers, sisters, children or grandchildren? Folks against gay marriage always seem to be talking about the children; but these are your children. My partner and drove from Denver to Santa Fe last St. Patrick's day to get married - after 40 years together, we felt we waited long enough. We have eliminated the need for expensive marriage-like financial protections. If you are fighting against gay marriage, you really should ask yourself, why? Better yet, ask your gay family member. And yes you do.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    July 2, 2014 9:49 p.m.

    People that think that the tide against so called same gender marriage will be on the wrong side of history, Like they know a very recent social experiment of a millennial old institution ordained by maker. In a few generations or even sooner they will eventually will be on wrong side of prophecy.