Pennsylvania pastor appeals defrocking over gay wedding

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  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 10:00 a.m.

    @ 1.96 Standard Deviations

    Friend, I agree with your position whole heartedly on the sanctity of traditional marriage. We must let our voice be heard in defense of that sacred ordinance. With regards to your quote: "A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation;" Please be aware that this quote which if often attributed to Joseph Smith was in fact written by Sidney Rigdon (according to work published by Dr. Joel Reynolds at BYU). That axiom was not a revelation and is not doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. It was contained in the Lectures on Faith which are not official doctrine of the Church. The Lectures on Faith were "decanonized" in 1921 by The First Presidency and removed from the Doctrine and Covenants at that time.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Dec. 22, 2013 12:25 p.m.

    Keep the pastor defrocked!

  • Contrarius mid-state, TN
    Dec. 20, 2013 4:14 p.m.

    @1.96 Standard Deviations

    "Korihor already did. You can read about it in Alma 30."

    And I can read about Mohammed in the Koran...and I can read about Krishna in the Vedas...and I can read about Buddha in the Sutras...and I can read Dianetics if I really want to go off the deep end.

    But guess what??

    None of these texts will magically turn this country into a theocracy.

  • 1.96 Standard Deviations OREM, UT
    Dec. 20, 2013 12:54 p.m.


    Korihor already did. You can read about it in Alma 30.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Dec. 20, 2013 12:46 p.m.

    1.96 Standard Deviations says:

    "God isn't fictional -"

    Prove it.

  • 1.96 Standard Deviations OREM, UT
    Dec. 20, 2013 10:44 a.m.


    A fictional being can't ordain anything. God isn't fictional -- Korihor the Anti-Christ learned about this the hard way.

    I am also glad The Church of Jesus Christ is demanding. "A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation;"

    In the meantime, I am glad you keep coming back to these discussion boards, Ranch. Since you don't let the home teachers in, who else will give you the monthly message? :)

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Dec. 20, 2013 10:17 a.m.

    @1.96 Standard Deviations;

    Please explain how a fictional being can "ordain" anything?

    Invitation to LDS Members: Come join those of us who are "nones"; you'll be amazed at how fulfilling life can be when your time isn't being overwhelmed by your churches demands.

  • 1.96 Standard Deviations OREM, UT
    Dec. 20, 2013 9:55 a.m.

    Looks like a good example of the separation between the sheep and the goats and the wheat and the tares. Marriage, as ordained by God, is between man and woman. As for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.

    Invitation to Methodist members troubled about this internal division: Come join The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. You will be loved and accepted, and is a place where the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ is available.

  • Contrariuser mid-state, TN
    Dec. 20, 2013 9:55 a.m.

    There's a very interesting article about this case in the NYT today. Here's some facts from the article:

    -- November, Philadelphia -- 36 Methodist ministers recited the Declaration of Marriage on the steps of a Methodist church for two gay men.

    -- New York -- Methodist ministers are openly blogging about the same-sex ceremonies they're performing.

    -- October, Alabama -- retired Bishop Melvin Talbert conducted a church ceremony for two gay men.

    -- several more ministers are already facing trial for performing same-sex ceremonies.

    -- even Bishop Peggy Johnson, Schaefer's superior in the church, has publicly stated this week that the UMC's bans on gay ordination and gay marriages were discriminatory and have "led to confusion by many from the outside of the church wondering how we can talk out of two sides of our mouth."

    -- Schaefer has said that he will not leave the UMC. He says "It's not that easy when a church is your spiritual home," he said. "All my children have been baptized in the United Methodist Church. I don't know how to be a minister out of the United Methodist Church."

  • Contrariusiests mid-state, TN
    Dec. 20, 2013 7:45 a.m.

    From the article: "Yet hundreds of Methodist ministers have publicly rejected the doctrine, and some face discipline for presiding over same-sex unions. Last month, in a public challenge to church rules, a retired Methodist bishop officiated at a wedding for two men in Alabama."

    This issue is much bigger than just one pastor. This is a deep rift throughout the United Methodist Church.

    As Bishop Talbert said: "Weddings are going on all the time, all across the church, but it's privately done, and bishops are just looking the other way, and it's time for someone to say, 'Let's deal with the elephant in the room.' "

    He also said: "I declare to you that the derogatory language and restrictive laws in the Book of Discipline are immoral and unjust and no longer deserve our loyalty and obedience."

    More than 1000 ministers have signed Talbert's call to action.

    Schaefer is doing a good thing by keeping the issue of same-sex marriage front and center in the minds of the UMC congregation. Many Christian denominations are already happy to perform same-sex wedding ceremonies -- and I bet the UMC will be joining them before too much longer.