Associated Press survey: United States income gap is holding back economy

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  • the truth Holladay, UT
    Dec. 18, 2013 6:13 p.m.

    @Open Minded Mormon

    Out sourcing and hiring foreigners is a different issue from the invented and irrelevant covetous-based issue of wage disparity,

    and I think generally every one on the right would agree something needs to be done about out sourcing and hiring foreigners.

    So what are your democrat reps. and senators doing about it?

  • RedShirtCalTech Pasedena, CA
    Dec. 18, 2013 11:08 a.m.

    To "Open Minded Mormon" bot those are not examples of socialism. Those are examples of the United Order, which is NOT socialism.

    Here are some quotes and scriptures explaining why:

    D&C 134:2 "We believe that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life." Under Socialism, you lose the right and control of property as individuals as it becomes controlled by the state.

    April 1966 Elder Marrion G Romney gave a talk titled "Is Socialism the United Order". In that talk he states clearly that Socialism is not the United Order.

    Heber J. Grant stated "… Communism and all other similar isms bear no relationship whatever to the United Order. They are merely the clumsy counterfeits which Satan always devises of the gospel plan… Latter-day Saints cannot be true to their faith and lend aid, encouragement, or sympathy to any of these false philosophies. They will prove snares to their feet."

    Prophets and the scriptures show that the United Order is not Socialism or Communism. Do you know something the Prophets don't?

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Dec. 18, 2013 10:04 a.m.

    @Chris B
    Salt Lake City, UT

    No, it is not my responsibility to improve your skills. That is your responsibility.

    2:37 p.m. Dec. 17, 2013

    [FYI --- I am an Aerospace Engineer. I hold 2 Bachelor's Degrees - one in Mechanical Engineering, the other in Manufacturing Engineering. My wages have gone consistanly down due to out-sourcing by Capitialists in America to the Communists in China over the last 25 years.

    I suppose could either move and help the Chinese,
    of I could change careers, but in either case --
    who do you expect to be designing and building our Air Force fleet -- communists in China?]


    Deep Space 9, Ut

    Finally, if socialism is so great, tell us where pure socialism has worked in the long run?
    2:40 p.m. Dec. 17, 2013

    [Crimeny - here we go...again!
    You want examples -- you a Mormon?
    Try -- the City of Enoch, 200+ years with the Nephites/Lamanites after Christ, Families, the Celestial Kingdom...]

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Dec. 18, 2013 8:05 a.m.

    Hey liberals!

    How's that free trade agreements working out?

  • high school fan Huntington, UT
    Dec. 18, 2013 12:27 a.m.

    Just to set the record straight, in 1973 I was making $3.00 an hour and happy and paying rent and eating and having kids, now I Work for $300. 00 per day. There is certainly a bigger wage difference than 5%. This is the problem with liberals, they just make things up.
    Isn't it funny that the hero of the left, Barack Obama, who before being president never really worked a lot is now a multi- millionaire while at the same time complaining about the rich. And now it is off to Hawaii one more time on someone else's dime. Oh how would it be.
    Why are the rich richer? Just look at the founder of Facebook, one day nothing and now a billionaire. That happens frequently.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Dec. 17, 2013 10:42 p.m.

    This is reality folks.

    * People are paid for what they are worth to an employer.

    * Do you think a good car salesman would be under paid if he sold alot of cars?

    * A good dentist, or doctor is worth every penny they earn.

    * Payton Manning increases cash flow for the Denver Broncos, and is worth the money he earns.

    * Burger flippers are easily replaced.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 17, 2013 8:18 p.m.

    Just need to wait for another fifty years for the trickle down.

  • A Guy With A Brain Enid, OK
    Dec. 17, 2013 3:45 p.m.

    @ Christopher B - Ogden, UT - "I am ashamed when lazy and jealous people blame the rich for the income gap. It's my responsibility to improve my skills such that I will be in higher demand in merit more pay, not Mitt's responsibility."

    Chris B, you and I will most likely forever lock horns over BYU and Utah, and often times over viewpoints of the LDS church, but with your 3 comments at the top of this comment board, you are forever my friend.

    You, Sir, clearly understand the truth of responsibility and accountability.

    Nice job!

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 17, 2013 2:42 p.m.


    "It's intellectually dishonest"

    Ya, well, if liberals couldn't use that kind of reasoning, what else would they use?

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Dec. 17, 2013 2:40 p.m.

    To "marxist" you are wrong. It is Socialism that is destroying capitalism. Just look up the many news articles about how under Obama the income gap has increased.

    Socialism is a parasite on capitalism, and will kill capitalism if unchecked. Just look at Portugal, Greece, and Spain. The socialist policies there have killed their economies.

    Since Europe is more socialist than the US, lets see what is going on there. Read "Gloom, anger spreads as European economies teeter" in the DN. Now ask yourself, why is it that they are teetering long before the US, if capitalism is the problem? If Socialism is the savior, then shouldn't they be doing better than the US?

    Finally, if socialism is so great, tell us where pure socialism has worked in the long run? Capitalism has a centuries old record of lifting people out of poverty and improving the world. What is Socialism's record? (I will give you a hint, it isn't good.)

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 17, 2013 2:37 p.m.


    No, it is not my responsibility to improve your skills. That is your responsibility.

    And I haven't seen concern about others taking jobs when it comes to illegal immigrants? Its ok for an illegal immigrant to take a job from an American but a Chinese person can't?

    Flip, flop, flip, flop

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Dec. 17, 2013 2:02 p.m.

    Christopher B
    Ogden, UT
    I am ashamed when lazy and jealous people blame the rich for the income gap.

    It's my responsibility to improve my skills such that I will be in higher demand in merit more pay, not Mitt's responsibility.

    11:38 a.m. Dec. 17, 2013



    I am ashamed when lazy and jealous people blame the POOR for their income gap.

    It's also your responsibility to improve my skills such that I will be in higher demand in merit more pay, so Mitt CAN'T send your jobs to Communist China.

    Because if they can, believe me -- they will.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Dec. 17, 2013 1:53 p.m.

    BO's trickle-up poverty is working.

    Why the photo of the person obviously NOT in the labor force when the article supposes to talk about income gaps? Compare the homeless in the window with my 12 year old neighbor who mows lawns in the summer, and the 12 year old has MUCH higher income. I suppose the liberals would want to tak from him to give to the hobo to even out the income gap.

    If BO's policies had not extended a weak economy, those workers at Caterpillar and elsewhere would have more choices to go somewhere else and the company would be forced to increase wages to keep them. Caterpillar's management has a greater responsibility to their shareholders than to their employees.

    I recently walked into a McDonalds in San Francisco where the minimum wage is out of line with the value of the labor provided. I saw the prices on the menu and walked out – I knew where I could get better food at a similar price. Artificial intervention in the market can have dire effects, just like barney frank forcing fannie and Freddie to buy junk mortgages took down the banking industry and our economy.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 17, 2013 1:46 p.m.

    Jobs are not created by the rich, they're created by customers. Businessowners don't hire people just because they can, they hire people because there's a need. Wealth inequality stifles the purchasing power of the lower and middle classes. When that happens demand falls and the economy gets or stays weak. The problem with the slow growth in the economy right now is on the demand side of the equation. Doing things like cutting off unemployment benefits or food stamps isn't going to help things, it's just going to make things worse by further putting downward pressure on purchasing power/demand.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Dec. 17, 2013 1:44 p.m.

    @spring street

    Do you know why worker productivity grew 80% over 40 years? Because of the invention of the personal computer. It's intellectually dishonest to imply that the average worker became 80% better/faster at their job while only getting 5% more money. The truth is, it was someone else's work that made us all more productive in our jobs. Workers don't deserve 80% more money because they didn't make the 80% improvement - the folks who developed the PC deserve it.

    And you know what? They got it. The PC industry now has millions of highly-paid workers. So at the end of the day, capitalism rewarded the right people.

    Another beautiful thing about capitalism: If a worker at Caterpillar is tired of having his wages frozen while the company makes record profits, he is welcome to take a job at any of the other tractor companies where wages aren't frozen. If he's a good worker for Caterpillar, the competition would welcome him with open arms. Or he's welcome to start his own tractor manufacturing company and pay himself (and his employees) whatever he wants.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 17, 2013 1:27 p.m.

    Capitalism is strangling itself like Marx predicted - the distribution of wealth grows ever more top heavy. The problem for the system is that it still needs little people, but American capital doesn't think it does. They are due for a shock just like the rest of us.

  • Ken Sandy, UT
    Dec. 17, 2013 12:23 p.m.

    spring street - Its a free country, employees are not forced to continue to work for a company that underpays them. If an employee's skills and contributions are worth more than he/she is getting paid, they should go find a company that will pay them what they are worth.

    Surely John Deere would love to hire a an employee from Caterpillar who is currently making Caterpillar a very profitable company and if that employee has the skills to make John Deere very profitable then John Deere will certainly be willing to pay said employee more money than he/she is currently making at Caterpillar

    I own a small business and if I know there is a person who will make my company more profitable, I'll absolutely hire someone and pay them enough to make them leave their current employer.

    If I didn't do such a thing I'd be turning my backs on my OWN profits. And if such thing is not happening, perhaps the employees are not as valuable or don't bring quite the skill set they think they have.

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Dec. 17, 2013 12:12 p.m.

    @ Christopher B: From 1973 to 2011, worker productivity grew by 80% - while worker pay grew by less than 5%. This means people are working harder and doing more for their money but not getting paid more. You can do whatever you want to make yourself more valuable to your employer - but chances are you will not get paid for that additional effort.

    Caterpillar, for example, had record profits last year but has put six-year wage freeze on the blue collar workers who actually make the products Caterpillar sells for its record profits.

    This is happening in many companies - record profits, lower pay - unless you happen to be one of the top people making more than 300x the average worker - even though your direct productivity has not increased as much as the productivity as those whose wages are stagnant.

    The American worker does not want money to which they are not entitled - they merely want to be paid fairly for the work they do.

    And, as the article points out, this would be good for the wealthy as well as it will increase demand for the products their companies sell thereby ensuring they stay in business and continue to make money.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Dec. 17, 2013 11:47 a.m.

    Well, both groups could change this:

    The rich group could stop working hard, investing their time and money, and stop creating value which adds to their pocketbook(and creates millions of jobs)


    The poor group could take more responsibility for themselves, get more education, work harder, work smarter, and be more fiscally responsible.

    Tough to hear?

    Ya well, deal with it.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Dec. 17, 2013 11:43 a.m.

    Barack and liberals would be happier with everyone in the nation struggling if that meant the income gap were smaller

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Dec. 17, 2013 11:38 a.m.

    I am ashamed when lazy and jealous people blame the rich for the income gap.

    It's my responsibility to improve my skills such that I will be in higher demand in merit more pay, not Mitt's responsibility.