@Rose BowlMay I suggest you trouble yourself to read my comment
before making one yourself?. I specifically referred to the team rankings. The
.43 differential between the two teams means that a matchup would be too close
to call. As a Ute fan I would like to believe that the Utes are better than BYU
at this stage of the season, but the truth is the teams are even up. Accept it
and move on.
@Rose Bowl "14 of the last 17 BYU-Utah games have been decided by a
touchdown or less.... Utah was fortunate to win the majority of those close
game... the results hardly prove any sort of head-to-head Utah dominance"You're kidding right? The scoreboard does not prove Utah's
head-to-head dominance? Wait, I thought the scoreboard was used to determine
who actually won the game. Call me crazy but I thought 4 was more
than 0, 9 was more than 3, and 14 was more than 7. BYU was the certainly the
better program in the 70's and 80's. But beyond that the Y has been
absolutely owned by Utah 18-54.
Without question, the manhandling of ASU by Stanford left everyone that I know
of in Arizona who cares about Pac 12 football saying, "how did Utah manage
to beat that Stanford team".
"I also love how Utah's win over Stanford has been relegated to
"fluke" status by BYU fans commenting here"Regardless of
how you spin it, a losing, bowl-less team knocking off the PAC 12 champion is
considered a fluke by every fan not living under that crimson bubble on the
fenderLOL that you use Sagarin's SOS rankings instead of
Sagarin's team rankings to prove which team is better!Sagarin's Overall Rankings:#30 BYU#32 UtahIt's pure speculation on your part that BYU wouldn't have been bowl
eligible if the Cougars had played Utah's schedule.A BYU team
that pummeled Big 12 runner-up Texas(8-4), would have had a very good chance of
beating Utah State(8-4), Weber State(2-10), Oregon State(6-6), Arizona(7-5),
Washington State(6-6), and Colorado(1-11), and given another crack at the Utes,
especially at the end of the season, Utah(5-7), to finish 6-6 or 7-5.
U 9014 of the last 17 BYU-Utah games have been decided by a
touchdown or less in the closing minutes or in overtime. Utah was fortunate to
win the majority of those close games(8 of 14), but the results hardly prove any
sort of head-to-head Utah dominance.Before that, BYU won 19 of the
previous 21 games, 15 by double-digits - now that's true dominance!The majority of BYU's head-to-head winners during the last 40 years
have finished in the Top 25.Only a hand full of Utah's
head-to-head winners were good enough to be ranked, ever.
Props to fender for pointing out that to compare Utah's season to
BYU's is comparing apples to oranges. I also love how Utah's win over
Stanford has been relegated to "fluke" status by BYU fans commenting
here, even though Utah executed a nearly flawless game. Know what's not a
fluke? Utah's four straight victories over the cougs. If I were a BYU
fan, I'd hold off commenting on how terrible the Utes are until my
supposedly superior team could actually beat them.
@Samwise"The thing all these games (and many other games
throughout College Football history) have in common is that the team that was
overall better for the season lost the game."BYU isn't
better for the season. Sagarin (as I recall) has Utah's SOS #3 and
BYU's #35 currently and has their power rating at #32 and 30 respectively.
If BYU played Utah's schedule, then BYU wouldn't be bowling and vice
versa. If the teams played now it's a toss-up, so why don't we all
duckhunter,I'll be the first to admit that if BYU played
Virginia tomorrow they would win easily.But we must also acknowledge
that 3-9 against Utah is no fluke, it's a trend and a measuring stick of
how good BYU's program really is. Rivals says Utah has been out-recruiting
BYU for the past decade and that's consistent with the scoreboard. If you
can't beat a PAC12 bottom feeder, how can you argue BYU is any better than
said bottom feeder? The PAC12 is chuck-full of ranked teams. And
BYU has never beaten even 2 teams in the same season that finished the year
ranked. Given their inability to beat Utah and ranked teams BYU would also land
in the bottom third of the PAC12.
@u 90"Did someone say 2-10 Virginia? Doh"I
definitely agree with you on that, losing to a losing team like virginia is an
embarrassment. So was BYU's loss to that other conference bottom feeder
utah. When you lose to a couple of teams that lost most of their other games it
is not a positive. That is what kept BYU from being a ranked team, a couple of
losses to a couple of bad teams. Bronco needs to figure out how to
keep that from happening if he really wants to see BYU raise to the upper level
of college football.
Congrats on another mediocre season, Utes. It's a good thing that Christy
and co. have that early BYU and Stanford win to hang their hats on...otherwise
they'd have to face reality and realize that they had another losing season
this year, aren't even bowling...for the 2nd year in a row.What's more important, and what do people remember more: How a team
starts a season, or how they end it? Food for thought...
@redthunder"No one, except for maybe the people in the lovely
state of Utah, thought BYU deserved what they got in 1984"You
mean except for all of the college coaches and all of the sports writers all
over the nation that voted for them? That might be the dumbest comment in the
history of the site. LOL!
Chris BExplain how a losing team that has never had a national
championship be considered relevant?Say hello to the wizard when you
see him next in the merry old land of Oz
@ Chris BHow embarrassed must Stanford be to lose to a bottom dweller like
utah? Just goes to prove that on any given Saturday even a team like utah can
get lucky. Same thing happened when Virginia beat the Y.
"An undefeated or one-loss season will make BYU a very strong 8 team playoff
contender." --phoenixEarlier, I would have strongly disagreed
with that, but I now believe you are correct, based on UCF this year.
UCF's schedule looks similar to BYU, except UCF played 2 top 25 teams
instead of 1. UCF only beat one of those teams, but were perfect otherwise.I thought BYU was trying to shed itself of the mid-major label by going
independent. When they said "We can schedule anyone, anywhere", I
figured they'd try to build to 9 BCS-level games. I see now that
isn't necessary. Their formula only needs 2 teams that are genuine top 25
teams (and remain there all year). The rest can be filler. So, fewer BCS
matchups; more matchups with American Athletic, CUSA, MAC, and MWC.Be the best, most-televised, mid-major team in America, and BYU can make a
case in an expanded playoff system. Not in the 4 team playoff. They should
just rename that "The SEC National Championship", since that is what it
Chris BDon't kid yourself. Alabama fans still relish the
achievements of the Bear Bryant era. That's the difference between legacy
programs like Alabama, Notre Dame, and, yes, BYU. They all have a history worth
celebrating and remembering; something a johnny-come-lately program like Utah
that couldn't possibly understand.-----------redthunder"No one, except for maybe the people in the lovely
state of Utah, thought BYU deserved what they got in 1984."The
results directly contradict your biased, BYU-hating opinion. There
were a few naysayers who couldn't stand to see a mid-major interloper crash
there big boy party, but the AP, UPI, USAToday/CNN, Football Writers Association
of America, and the National Football Foundation all selected BYU as the most
deserving team to be selected 1984 National Championship, the exact same
organizations that selected Miami and Oklahoma as national champions in 1983 and
1985.Trophies from all five, major college football national
championship selecting organizations are displayed proudly in BYU's Legacy
Hall of Fame.
Such an empty feeling to not be relevant. At least there is one team in Utah
that is relevant in today's world. Doesn't matter that that
they've had two losing seasons and do not contribute to the financial books
of the P12. Oh well, at least the cougs can continue to be on ESPN where
everyone can watch. Onward an upward
@SportsFanThe whole nation watched BYU beat Michigan in the Holiday
Bowl and the majority of fans, coaches, and sportswriters thought BYU deserved
to be #1 and awarded BYU the 1984 National Championship.-----Wrong. No one, except for maybe the people in the lovely state of Utah,
thought BYU deserved what they got in 1984. They played a 6-5 Michigan for
heavens sake! That's quite the accomplishment!! But it is what it is and no
one can take that away from the Cougs.As far as sports writers not
thinking Utah was worthy of the crystal ball, it probably has a lot to do with
the way things are run. Utah was the ONLY undefeated team in the land! It's
called the BCS. But Cougar fans wouldn't understand.
sportsfan,I couldn't care less how a team that I now cheer for
performed before I was even born. Why any fan brags about
accomplishments from generations ago is beyond me. Alabama football
fans don't think they are a powerhouse because they WERE a powerhouse 40
years ago. Alabama fans know they are a powerhouse because they ARE a
powerhouse today. Sure, any team has some down years, but down decades like
byu?LOLWhen a program has to go back 20-30 years to find
the last time they were truly on the big time national stage....LOL!
Being ranked at the end of the season is an accomplishment to be proud of. None
of the teams in the state of Utah made it.Bummer....
Chris BSince the AP poll was started in 1936:BYU has
been ranked: 11 Times (Preseason), 17 Times (Final), 236 Weeks (Total)Utah
has been ranked: 2 Times (Preseason), 5 Times (Final), 77 Weeks (Total)BYU has been ranked in 22% of 1069 pollsUtah has been ranked in 7% of
1069 pollsRegardless of how you spin it, being ranked is a
meaningful accomplishment on a national scale for any college football program,
and as far as rankings go, BYU has dominated Utah by more than a 3 to 1
margin.Please stop embarrassing yourself with cherry-picked
achievements, when the overall results - end of season rankings - speak for
sportsfan,So sad you have to go back DECADES to find the last time
byu made a splash nationally.Actually, not its not sad. It's
U90,So even in imaginationland the Utes couldnt make the playoffs?
U 90Key take away: More evidence of just how
insignificant the Utes are on a national scale.
@skywalker "In an imaginary USA Today 64-team college football playoff for
2013BYU - 8th seedUSU - 13th seedUtah - go fish"KEY WORD: "imaginary"
christyIt's funny how BEATING a Top 25 team is ALWAYS
considered something special by the kids on the hill, but BEING a Top 25 team
isn't anything special, except when the Utes are ranked, which doesn't
happen very often.Gotta love the spin though.The whole
nation watched BYU beat Michigan in the Holiday Bowl and the majority of fans,
coaches, and sportswriters thought BYU deserved to be #1 and awarded BYU the
1984 National Championship.The whole nation watched Utah upset
Alabama in the Sugar Bowl and the majority of fans, coaches, and sportswriters
still thought that Utah was nothing but a johnny-come-lately, flash-in-the-pan
program that would quickly fade from the national scene - which is exactly what
happened.Bottom line:BYU has had
back-to-back-to-back-to-back AP Top 25 finishes during the Bronco/Kyle era.Utah has never had more than two straight AP Top 25 finishes in their
entire history.If finishing in the AP Top 25 is really such a
mediocre accomplishment, why have the Utes only been able to do it FIVE times in
Lets face it, all the teams in this state are just plain middle of the road.
Utah leads the pack of losers. Even though they won the "State
Championship" they did nothing else. We now know that the Stanford win was
a fluke. In looking what Utah has coming back next year and what the rest of
the PAC 12 south base coming back, I don't see any change in the Utes
fortune. Utah state is losing many great players and Will probably finish with
a 7 or 8 win season again next year. Byu's schedule sets up for them
pretty well for next year and they have a pretty good stable of skilled people
coming back next year. They may get back to the 10 win mark. But all teams
have to face the same problem. And that problem is depth. Utah has proven that
they don't have the horses yet to keep up with the PAC 12 foes. BYU held
up pretty good against Texas but the cougars second team players were no match
for Wisconsin or Norte Dame. Utah state played pretty good without Chucky
Keeton but that was against pretty horrible competition.
56-6 byu,Although I understand your point, again I ask: When was
the last time you saw a big time program saying their season was a success based
simply on a top 25 ranking?You think Alabama, Oregon, Oklahoma...are
all pumped about their season because they're going to end in the top
25?I guess my point is I'd take 1 top 5 finish with a bad year
the next over 2 seasons ranked #25. And I'll bet most programs
would as well.
Chris B. to Phoenix,"If you think simply being a top25 team is
really something special....LOL! 25 teams do it every year!"I do
think that is something pretty darn good. That means that 100 FBS teams
aren't top 25. ONLY 25 teams do it every year. What about the team that
finishes 11th? 12th, 13th, 14th, or 15th? No good? One may as well finish 5-7
and ranked in the bottom 75?
ChrisWhat makes finishing in the top 10 the standard for a successful
season? Who made you the expert on what qualifies as a quality end-of-year
ranking? Only 25 programs finish ranked each year, but you qualify yourself to
cheapen a ranking if it's not in the top 10? Why? You think only teams
finishing in the top 10 deserve recognition as successes and football powers?
Wow, I feel sorry for Ute supporters then because I believe it will be a long
time before the Utes finish the season ranked in the top 10 again. Maybe never.
Gosh, had the Utes been able to hold on, finish, and win in close losses to
USC, Oregon, and Arizona St, they would have been 8-4. In my opinion that would
be deserving of a 22-25 ranking based on SOS. But according to Chris B, that is
a meaningless ranking? That doesn't make any sense, and the Utes are
deserving of more appreciative fans than what you seem to be. My guess is that
if Utah HAD performed just a little better and finished 8-4 and ranked, you
would really be all over how well they did and what a great achievement a top 25
I can't necessarily argue with Chris B that the worst loss for any team in
the state was BYU beating themselves against Virginia and the best win was
Stanford beating themselves against Utah. However, those games have something in
common, along with various other games played throughout the country by teams
from all over. The BYU vs Utah game and Utah vs Utah state game had the same
thing in common. A non Utah related example of this is the Alabama vs Auburn
game (in my opinion) or the Oregon vs Arizona game this year. The thing all
these games (and many other games throughout College Football history) have in
common is that the team that was overall better for the season lost the game.
Although in the vast majority of games the better team wins, sometimes the worse
team wins, usually due to mistakes or uncharacteristically poor play by the
better team but occasionally due to the worse team playing better than they have
all season. It is one of the things about being a college football fan that
makes it both fun and frustrating.
phoenix,If you think simply being a top25 team is really something
special....LOL! 25 teams do it every year!When was the last time
you heard USC, Oklahoma, Oregon, Florida, Alabama bragging about how many top 25
finishes they've had?LOLThe whole nation watched
Utah beat Alabama in the Sugar BowlThe football experts ranked Utah
the second best team in the nation.And yes, Navy used to be a
powerhouse in football 30 years ago too.Try having a top 10 finish
in the past decade and then lets talk about who matters nationally.
In an imaginary USA Today 64-team college football playoff for 2013:BYU - 8th seedUSU - 13th seedUtah - go fishFlorida St,
Michigan St, Auburn, and Alabama - #1 seeds (a preview of things to come?)
Lots of frantic and emotional comments from the hill crowd today trying,
especially from a particularly frantic fan who shall remain nameless, to justify
their second straight losing, bowl-less season.Three points:- Utah's recent head-to-head success versus BYU is meaningless on a
national scale. In fact, it wasn't even good enough to get U into a bowl
the last two seasons.- ONE Crystal Football National Championship
Trophy is infinitely better than NONE!- The bcs will quickly be
forgotten as a failed system as soon as the playoffs start.
ArgoFYBrett McMurphy's comments are nothing but speculation.
The truth is, NOBODY knows exactly how the playoff selection process is actually
going to work.One thing is certain, with only 4 playoff spots
available, and 5 major conferences plus Notre Dame, at least one or two major
conferences are going to be left on the outside looking in at the playoffs every
year.It doesn't take a genius to figure out that it won't
take very long for the fans of those ignored conferences to start putting
enormous pressure on the powers that be to expand the playoffs to at least 8
teams.As soon as that happens, BYU will be right back in the mix. An
undefeated or one-loss season against a schedule similar to what BYU had this
year will make BYU a very strong playoff contender.
@christyRe: Deep Blue, "And what has BYU done on the national
scene in the last 15 years."Last 15BYU - 5 AP Top 25, 6
Coaches Top 25, 3 Top 15, 1 National Individual Player AwardUtah - 4 AP
Top 25, 5 Coaches Top 25, 2 Top 15, 0 National Individual Player Awards (EVER)
So funny, so sad.This was a very fair article on both the good and
bad for all three teams, none of which did as well as they had hoped at the
beginning of the season. Yet almost instantly, the commentary turns into
"your epic fail was more epic than ours!" "Uh-uh!"
"Uh-huh!"It IS kinda poetic that Utah State has the bigger
opportunity to put an explanation point on their season with a bowl victory over
a ranked opponent. A BYU victory over Washington would also be sweet, but not
quite is stellar.And Utah's bowl victory? I'm
sorry, just couldn't resist...
DeepBlue, You forgot a couple of items on the 'what have you
done for me lately' category: BCS BowlsBronco: 0Kyle: 2 National Coach of the Year Award Bronco: 0Kyle: 1 (And the most glaring)-Wins over rival in last 4 years Bronco: 0Kyle: 4And the bit about the ceiling: I've mentioned it once on the comments section before, but it warrants a
repeat. Recently, Brett McMurphy from ESPN (byu's current and only friend
in CFB), had this to say about the playoff system beginning next year:
"Obviously, with the College Football Playoff System, each of the power
conferences are going to be represented. It's the smaller conferences and
independents that are going to have problems. Outside of ND, when you're
talking about byu, Army and Navy, they'll never have a shot at the National
Championship." Outside of that stinger itself, he mentioned byu
football in the same breath as Army and Navy. All of that coming from a guy who
works for a network that is supposed to be a byu advocate. Ouch.Remember those memories, awards, and lone NC fondly, because they won't
happen again while the y is an independent; thus, the low ceiling.
"Big 12 call lately?"The Big 12 isn't interested in
adding a couple of doormats like Colorado and Utah just so they can play a
championship game. But, even if they were, after seeing how BYU has handled
Oklahoma and Texas recently, it's obvious that BYU wouldn't fit the
christyYou should be a baker where you could put your cherry-picking
talents to better use.Kyle has had a few highlights and one great
season, but, as DeepBlue has already summarized, Kyle's overall
accomplishments pale in comparison to Bronco's.
With such an incredible history, what has happened to byu football?Zero top 10 finishes in the last 15 years?Are there any other
football powerhouses that haven't had a single top 10 finish in 15
years?Can you guys give me a few examples of other powerhouses?LOL
Deep Blue,And what has byu done on the national scene in the last 15
years.Nothing!byu is like Navy. It has a proud football
HISTORY.And that is all. Going nowhere in the present.
christyThe only thing relevant about Utah football since joining the
PAC is giving 18 of the 27 conference opponents the Utes have played another
"I'll take a team who is relevant currently "... chrisbon what planet do you live on that utah is relevant currently? Are you kidding
me?Losing Seasons - Bowl-less Post Season - Perennial Basement of a
12 team Conference... who would want that kind of relevance?ANSWER:
Not a SINGLE person!LOL
SoonerUteBe sure to dust off a shelf in Utah's hall of fame
closet for your SOS trophy... it should be arriving any day now... or not------------Most disappointing season award definitely goes
to Utah, the team that beat the PAC champion, but wasn't good enough to
beat a mediocre WSU to qualify for a bowl.
oh Chris... really? ute vs Alabama or ute vs Stanford... those are called TRAP
games chris.Why don't you wait and see next year when you play
Stanford... or if you EVER play Alabama again to see how you do. If you are that
good, you would not be in the basement of the pac and would still be playing
football instead of having locker clean out 2 weeks ago.Enjoy
watching USU and BYU in their bowl games in a couple of weeks, we all know you
will be glued to the set!LOL
christy"the difference between what Utah is capable of and what
BYU is capable of is the ceiling is much higher for Utah"National ChampionshipsBYU 1, Utah 0Heisman TrophiesBYU
1, Utah 0National College Hall of Fame PlayersBYU 6, Utah 0AP Top 25 FinishesBYU 17, Utah 511+ Win SeasonsBYU 11, Utah 210+ Win SeasonsBYU 16, Utah 6----------------And in the what have you done for me lately
categoriesAP Top 25 FinishesBronco 4Kyle 211+ Win/Top 15 FinishesBronco 3Kyle 1Conference
ChampionshipsBronco 2Kyle 1Bowl Game AppearancesBronco 8Kyle 6Bronco has finished with better records and
higher rankings in 6 of 9 seasons.Kyle had ONE great year, but his
program has been in steady decline since.Overall, Bronco has been
betterBronco - 82-33, FIVE Top 25 Finishes, THREE Top 15 Finishes, Sagarin
Average 30.3Kyle - 75-39, THREE Top 25 Finishes, ONE Top 15 Finish,
Sagarin Average 36.2From what we've seen of the Utes in the PAC
12 so far, the only thing the Utes are "capable" of is being a perennial
conference bottom dweller - 4-5, 3-6, 2-7...
The Most Disappointing Season Award goes to BYU, based on all the pre-season
hype. This was supposed to be BYU's toughest season ever, which turned out
to be one team ranked #19. A new OC, a hot QB, and Bronco's defense
bolstered by players foregoing the NFL to finish business. Bounced out of BCS
consideration after game one. Facing the Utes at home after blowing out Texas -
"We are sure to beat Utah!" But Utah never trailed. Another December
bowl made possible by a schedule which guaranteed at least 6-6. If not for the
pre-season hype, it would be a good season for the Cougars. Next year's
schedule? Cougar fans are already talking about going undefeated. The Circle
Of Hype begins.
@ Fight On "...your team couldn't manage to beat two 6-6
teams"Did someone say 2-10 Virginia? Doh
FightOn,And your team couldn't manage two beat a 2-10 Virginia
team(who would be winless against division 1 teams without their win over you)
or manage to beat your rival even once in 5 years, a rival that finished less
than 6-6.MacNasty,I'll take a team who is relevant
currently over a 1984 NC any day! And so would byu fans.Your coach
thinks he's going to take you to a national title, and you guys believe
him.And yet that coach has NEVER beaten a single end of season top
10 team in his LIFE. LOL!P.S. If anyone cared about
1984 more than recent BCS glory you would have gotten a big time conference
invite.On that note, Big 12 call lately?LOL!
Chris B,Please explain how Utah is getting the cream of the Utah crop in
recruiting and better classes each year but is finishing worse in the conference
each year? And tell us how a team that is not going bowling for the second year
in a row is better then a team playing in a BCS game as the conference champ?
What teams did Utah play and beat to win the 1944 basketball championship? Such
hate and envy for a fan of a team and university that moved Onward and Upward
three years ago!!!GO BYU RISE UP!!!
Chris BNational championship baby! You ain't got one. You
pull out BCS bowls, I pull out NC. NC trumps you all hollow! LOLPs Utah has hit its head on a very low ceiling for 2 straight seasons.
Chris B.I don't know why you are bragging about a faulty win
over Stanford when your team couldn't manage to beat two 6-6 teams?
MacNasty,the difference between what Utah is capable of and what byu
is capable of is the ceiling is much higher for Utah. Need proof? See
Kyle's three wins against end of season top 10 teams, 2 wins against BCS
bowl participants. When Kyle has a good year, we beat some of the best teams in
the nation and are counted among the best in the nation.Guess how
many end of season top 10 teams bronco has beaten?Hint: It's
less than oneGuess how many BCS bowl participants Bronco has
beaten?Hint: It's less than one.And if you think
1984 matters, Navy used to be a powerhouse football program too.LOL!When was the last time byu ended the year in the top 5 in the
nation?So sad that a powerhouse program like byu doesn't have a
single top 10 finish in the last FIFTEEN yearsLOL!
You could also say that the Ute's were also the only football team to not
get a touchdown in a game this year. USC game.
Hadley's moustache belongs on the "worst 5" list...
Tell us, Chris B, which bowl game will Utah be playing in this bowl season? The
"Welcome Doormat" bowl didn't even call the Utes.
Shouldn't end of season reviews wait until the season is over... oh wait
Best win of any team in the state of UtahUtah over end of season top
10 StanfordWorst loss of any team in the statebyu losing
to Virginia(whose ONLY division 1 was was against byU) LOLThat
makes 3 wins Whittingham has over END of season top 10 teamsGuess
how many wins against end of season top 10 teams the coach in Provo has?Zero!