Dems, Obama, head into 2014 election distant, determined

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  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    Nov. 30, 2013 10:06 p.m.


    "This liberal free thinking "low information voter" possess an Ivy League Degree....Think for yourself! Just because" everyone at your school "states their sophomoric, unintelligent bias opinion does not make it fact."

    Free thinking is a laugh! If you had gone to a conservative school and you were a liberal, that would be free thinking. But going to a liberal school, and coming out a liberal parrot is hardly free thinking.

    Oh, and check your grammar.

    Screeners this is no more harsh or attacking than his post that I am responding to. In fact I used his own words, and even left some of the meanness out.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 29, 2013 7:41 p.m.

    I don't love every aspect of the Affordable Healthcare Act, but I will give the President and the Democrats credit for trying to do something. Healthcare is one of the single biggest challenges facing Americans today. Many don't have it and most of us who do are quickly being priced out of decent coverage, and this started long before the ACA. My dad told me a long time ago that you are either part of the solution, or part of the problem. The President and Democrats offered solutions, we can argue about how good they are, but they attempted to solve the health care problem. The republicans on the other hand have stood on the sideline and criticized, never offering to be part of the solution, never offering a better solution. The republicans refuse to work with democrats to create solutions, they would rather play politics and focus on the next election cycle which other than a few gerrymandered house seats in 2012 hasn't really worked for them.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Nov. 29, 2013 7:10 p.m.

    Utahbluedevil: I disagree. If you can't tell me the principles from which you stand, then it sounds as if you are waiting for anyone to come along, no matter who it is, to jump on board, which usually means a desire to just have power, rather than make things better. We already have nigh unto 435 HR and 100 Senate members and one president who are in it just for power and have made a complete mess of a system that should be giving its citizens much, much, much more for the 'service' rendered by these Kingmen. I defy anyone to announce by any stretch of the imagination that our elected leaders have made things better the last 75 years, excluding a few good men and women that have done so.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Nov. 29, 2013 3:57 p.m.

    @UtahBlueDevil--I can't disagree with you. I've heard of GE making five billion in a year, and paying no taxes.

    When I think of rich people, I'm thinking of those who did it by the rules. It's like college,--some did the work while others cheated their way through.

    I don't feel honest people are greedy, or should be punished for the fruits of honest hard work.

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    Nov. 29, 2013 3:17 p.m.

    "Care to define in detail to the rest of us "low information voters" actually what constitutes "free stuff?"

    Yes jimmy with an ivy league degree - and all of your low information voter friends:

    Free stuff is food stamps, disability payments, free cell phones, free health care, and well, you get the picture, which is all funded under what we call taxes, which is when my government steals money from my wallet, money that I have worked hard to earn, and then without my permission dispenses my money willy nilly to other people with no strings attached who, in many cases, have been irresponsible and lazy and who have no intention of ever being responsible and accountable.

    I don't have an ivy league degree. But I'm smart.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 29, 2013 11:12 a.m.

    @Worf - on the income side.... I will disagree with you totally. I do consulting for a Oil and Gas company that pays next to no taxes. In fact, as a marginal rate, they pay less on their net income than those now famous 47% pay. Remember - even the 47 percent still pay "income" taxes on everyone of their checks. It just isn't called "income tax". But FICA and SS still come out of every check, from everyone one. And in many cases they still pay more than 10 of their income in "taxes".

    @banderson - why does someone have to attribute their beliefs to a "most cherished leader" to have those beliefs be valid. Many of us don't need to be told what to believe - or attribute them a historical figure. For example, I like many things from both Lincoln, and Jefferson - but these two did not agree on much. There is no single valid reference persona.

  • SCfan clearfield, UT
    Nov. 29, 2013 11:01 a.m.


    And boy do I agree with you and Worf. We have enough smart, public serving people from both sides of the political spectrum in this nation of 300 plus million, who could give a lot to this nations well being if given a few years to do the work. And then get out before the corruption of party politics has a chance to set in. However, I have thought that maybe a good change in the Presidency would be one 6 year term, like a Senator, and no re-election. That way, a President could concentrate on getting done all he can without wasting time running for re-election, like they all have to do. Sure he would be a lame duck the moment he got elected, and his power would diminish as time went by, but that is really what happens anyway even with 2 terms. And if one looks at history, it is always in the 2nd term when the scandles set in, and the rats begin leaving the ship. 2nd term Presidencies rarely accomplish much.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Nov. 29, 2013 10:36 a.m.

    Atl: I read your comments a lot, but I wonder if you have the courage to tell us what you really want, who you support,if you are a Democrat, socialist, or both. Anyone one can write an opinion, ACA one of your favorites, but can you tell us the principles of governance you support and who your most cherished leaders in history are, etc. Once I know that, I can better understand your point of view, otherwise there is nothing that I can glean from your comments except that you want something, anything just because someone said it is the answer.

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 29, 2013 10:33 a.m.

    Tekakaromatagi - "If I am 65 and I have cancer I might want to say, 'Geez, it is probably time to go.'"

    Not to worry... Obamacare death panels will decide whether 65 year old's will live or die.

    Lone Star Cougar - "Obamacare will take almost EVERYONE'S personal insurance and force companies to put their employees onto Obamacare at highly inflated rates with less coverage."

    Don't you mean Obamacare will give MORE coverage? For example, a 65 year old male gets coverage for obstetrics, child dental care, birth control pills, and the like. I think that sounds like a fairly good deal for a 65 and older male.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 29, 2013 10:08 a.m.

    "I'm sorry you (Democrats) made your bed, NOW LIE IN IT."

    Actually I totally agree with you for two reasons. 1. Nobody's going to buy any attempts to run away from it, and 2. It's a good bill, people just don't realize that due to the mishandled rollout and the misinformation readily spread by Republicans.

    @DN Subscriber: [If the Dems can fool the "low information voters" again, and motivate them to get to the polls by promising them more "free stuff" they might win again.]

    Hah, your party offers tax cuts paid for with nothing and says that their Medicare plan (amusingly it's the same concept as Obamacare) will somehow be made solvent without any cuts to it. You only like cuts until they happen to something you benefit from (like when you all lost it when your shutdown forced the national parks to close because they didn't have funding).

  • agb Layton, UT
    Nov. 29, 2013 9:41 a.m.


    The lexicon that has emerged from the liberal persecution complex is that anyone opposing Obama's policies are racist.

    So your statement is either a freudian slip or a tacit admission of ignorance to your ideology. Which one is it?

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Nov. 29, 2013 8:49 a.m.

    Believe me, this is all about going back. If any american thinks that moving forward means eliminating fiscal responsibility, low taxes, individual liberty, and neighborliness, then you are in the wrong country. These are the issues for independents, something Democrats and Republicans long abandoned. our country and its leaders once advocated such, but not any more. The future belongs to the Independent minded person that believes in the aforementioned items.

  • Common-Tator Saint Paul, MN
    Nov. 29, 2013 8:17 a.m.

    Obamacare and any other such system is simply a bandage over a gaping wound. If you don't deal with the underlying causes that artificially make the US health care the most expensive in the world (while arguably still the "best" available), any such legislation will continue to languish in non-efficacious futility.

    Ask any doctor, health care official, or pharmaceutical producer what causes their costs to be inexplicably high, and they will immediately reply that it is the exorbitant malpractice insurance they procure to protect themselves from lawsuits. And lest one think THEY pay this (or any other firm, person, etc, which pays a given penalty, fine, or protection), know that they must transfer these costs in the bottom line to the consumer ... and thus our health care is the most expensive in the world.

    Chances aren't high that we will get legislators, the majority of whom have lawyer backgrounds, to deal with this conundrum, as they draw much of their "profit" from this malpractice practice and the lobbying donations from those who represent groups that benefit from the current system. Until we do, we get Obamacare, or similar maladies, to mask the underlying wounds.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Nov. 29, 2013 8:12 a.m.

    Did anyone besides me appreciate the undaunted courage and sacrifice of Mike Lee and Ted Cruz? They were 100% correct in the warnings they gave Americans about Obamacare and incidentally, so was Mitt Romney! And what do we see now? Obama and the Demos having to follow the advice of Lee and Cruz, whom they called all kinds of vile, despicable names for daring to tell us the truth! America is now experiencing the Obamacare destructive mess Lee, Cruz and Romney told us it was! Whom do you trust is the number one issue for the next election; Those who lied, misrepresented and destroyed our healthcare system, or those who told us the truth?

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Nov. 29, 2013 8:09 a.m.

    @Mark B--the top ten percent pays seventy five percent of the federal taxes, while the bottom forty seven pays nothing.

    Some people keep whining with envy while others produce. They have no pride.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Nov. 29, 2013 8:04 a.m.

    Dudes, you're still not facing reality. The latest credible poll showed only a 40% negative rating for the ACA. 40% loved it and 11% thought it wasn't liberal enough (of course that group shows as negative in the poll, but they were specifically identified and aren't going to vote Republican based on the law).

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 29, 2013 7:57 a.m.

    Worf... you know what...... shocking as it may seem? I completely agree with you. Jefferson had a concept that laws should not last longer than a generation. You would think that by extension, those writing those laws shouldn't be there longer than a generation as well.

    I in some cases I admire those that dedicate their lives to serving the public - but I think more so that they don't have to be elected into office to still drive the political process. Or that they can't play different roles in politics. But no one is so important that they are the only person who can or should fill a seat for decades.

    Stability and consistency are key elements for business to thrive. But when it becomes a battle of personalities - vying to keep long entrenched jobs, it warps the process into bad territories.

    In my opinion, 12 years is plenty for the senate and the house. 8 years is working well for President. Lets keep democracy vibrant and alive.

  • Lone Star Cougar Plano, TX
    Nov. 29, 2013 7:50 a.m.

    All the pro-democrat apologists don't get it or don't want to get it and many of the other voters don't either - yet. Obamacare will take almost EVERYONE'S personal insurance and force companies to put their employees onto Obamacare at highly inflated rates with less coverage. The only way out is to repeal it. We are now seeing how the government takes something that works and makes it WORSE. We could have changed a few things about our health care system previously a insured everyone without out scrapping the whole system that served 85% of the population well.

    Great Britain is trying to get away from socialized medicine! It does not work well. Please, let us vote out all those that could or supported this and get those into office those that will fix this mess! Obama, Pelosi, and their minions lied. It is not cheaper, better, nor easier.

  • Wilf 55 SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 29, 2013 7:24 a.m.

    Politics... But the main issue still is how to make sure that people in need of decent health care get it at an affordable price, even with pre-existing conditions. They are the ones who need to win. At least Obamacare tries.

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    Nov. 29, 2013 7:24 a.m.

    Joe Blow
    I'll give you some Republicans. McCain, and ANY Bush, to name a few. That's why we like some of the new Republican guys now getting into the mix.

    The reason Obama delayed the ACA till November 2014 is because it doesn't look like it will be running well before the next election. The ACA will be the gift (to the Republicans) that keeps on giving all next (election) year. More and more problems with it are predicted than fixes. And almost every Democrat running will be having to answer the ads that show them saying, "If you like your health plan and doctor, you can keep it".

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Nov. 29, 2013 6:25 a.m.

    @ Joe Blow. How many Republicans voted for Obamacare? There is your answer!

  • CP Tooele, UT
    Nov. 29, 2013 4:21 a.m.

    I saw this coming. I didn't trust Obama from day one, that's why I never voted for him. Those who did well, deal with it. And unfortunately the rest of us have to as well. Next time don't fall for suave talk, dig deeper into what's real. And at this point I agree with whatnext.

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    Nov. 29, 2013 2:49 a.m.

    Was the photo of Pelosi because she is distancing herself from Pres. Obama, or is it they are distancing themselves from Pelosi also?

    I keep seeing this photo of the photo op of Pres. Obama signing the ACA. There are all these politicians standing proud next to him when he signed it. And, now they are thinking that maybe they should have read it.

    Hutterite has a good point, so what do we do instead of ACA? I think that we need to change our values and expectations. If I am 65 and I have cancer I might want to say, "Geez, it is probably time to go." Some cultures consider 65 to be a ripe old age. In the US we fight tooth and nail to live longer. (Are we frightened about what might happen next?)

  • slcjimmy SLC, UT
    Nov. 29, 2013 1:24 a.m.

    @ DN Subscriber....This liberal free thinking "low information voter" possess an Ivy League Degree. How about yourself? Never have I asked for "free stuff." Care to define in detail to the rest of us "low information voters" actually what constitutes "free stuff?" Keep living in your Republican bubble my friend. Since you apparently have not noticed the World is changing and thankfully becoming more liberal daily. Your party is soon to be of zero significance. Conservatives continue to be unable to offer any candidate with a legitimate chance of the presidency. Think for yourself! Just because Hannity or Limbaugh state their sophomoric, unintelligent bias opinion does not make it fact.

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 29, 2013 1:05 a.m.

    @DN Subscriber: [If the Dems can fool the "low information voters" again, and motivate them to get to the polls by promising them more "free stuff" they might win again.]

    Too late... we're already there.

    And the Democrats would like to secure an additional 30 to 40 million more votes from Obama's push for illegal immigrant amnesty.

  • tabuno Clearfield, UT
    Nov. 29, 2013 12:39 a.m.

    The Democratic Party has a good chance to pick seats in the 2014 elections. With all the early focus on Obamacare problems, the likelihood that it will be addressed before the November 2014 elections is reasonably good and if it begins to work decently, like Obama and his relatively successful legacy of addressing Bush's failed policy and his successful 2012 election, the Democrats may have a winning political position by election time.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Nov. 29, 2013 12:18 a.m.

    What would you call a millionaire who consistently supports lower taxes for those with high incomes - in other words, what we have NOW? Given all the complexities of all the governing issues in the world, I think the bast answer is the one supplied pretty often by DN Sub - "low information voter". It's like lots of other implied insults people use. The term doesn't mean you are smarter or have HIGH information. It just implies that you do. I would guess that states with a demonstrably high level of education are more likely to vote Democratic.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Nov. 29, 2013 12:08 a.m.

    Is re-election more important than being public servants?

    How much do these people really care for the American people?

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 11:20 p.m.

    The nuances of the roll-out won't matter because what will be remembered it that the President lied to the American people about their health insurance, period. That point will be easy to bring back to the public's mind and they will then have reason to make changes in the persons serving in Washington. No matter how they try and spin it, the chickens have come home to roost this time.

  • whatnext Clearfield, Utah
    Nov. 28, 2013 10:43 p.m.

    I like how many of the Democrats are trying to wash their hands of this Obama Care act night mare. They cram this thing down our throats telling us all these falsehoods and now that they see its not working the way they all said it would, now they want to distance themselves from it and President Obama. I'm sorry you (Democrats) made your bed, NOW LIE IN IT. I hope everyone of you lose your reelection bid come 2014. We need leaders who will be honest with the people that elected them and secondly we need leaders that will research and study the bills that they are voting on to make sure the bill will work and will be benifical to those of us who have to live with it. This whole thing is a mess and the Democrats that voted for this are the ones to blame. VOTE THEM ALL OUT OF OFFICE.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 10:23 p.m.

    If the Dems can fool the "low information voters" again, and motivate them to get to the polls by promising them more "free stuff" they might win again.

    People have indeed learned that they CAN vote themselves largesse from the public treasury, and greed has replaced concern for others and this nation is in a steady decline.

    Decline will continue unless voters throw the bums out and vote in a Congress which will cut spending, eliminate government borrowing, pay off the debt, and reduce regulations and the size of government. Without these steps our economy will never recover.

  • wwookie Payson, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 8:25 p.m.

    Worf must have really loved obama's first term then. Good point.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 8:05 p.m.

    This photo says it all for the Democrat party. Fancy Nancy and friends fully believe America will not blame them for Obamacare - actually she says people love Obamacare. I honestly hope they continue to think the same and then go into the 2014 elections with the same attitude. Here is the awful truth for the Democrats - they ALL voted for Obamacare....they ALL promised if you like your insurance you can keep it - premiums will go down by $2500 per year promised - the web site will navigate as easy as amazon....and the list goes on. No cutting and running this time. Obamacare is welded to their legs. Good luck Nancy and friends. Actually I hope and pray this time you get what you all deserve.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Nov. 28, 2013 7:56 p.m.

    Couldn't find any Republicans who have "been around too long" to include in your list?

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Nov. 28, 2013 7:52 p.m.

    Political office should be a short term service, and not a career.

    Give others the honor of serving their country. Nancy, Harry, Hillary, etc, have been around too long.

    Re-election takes up too much time, and weakens leadership.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 6:19 p.m.

    It's not about what we might want to run from; we know what's too repulsive to run to.