Obamacare's disastrous rollout overshadowed by budget dispute

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  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Oct. 16, 2013 10:12 a.m.

    Thank you DN for confirming what I have learned listening to rush, watching fox and reading drudge...

  • Star Bright Salt Lake City, Ut
    Oct. 16, 2013 8:58 a.m.

    All of you that so love obamacare, have you registered yet? Please tell us about your experience and how much less you are going to have to pay for it.
    BTW, the roll out to obamacare was outsourced to a French Canadian Co. Couldn't even do this with an American Company. No wonder it is such a mess.

  • ZaphodBeeblebrox Albuquerque, NM
    Oct. 15, 2013 11:25 p.m.

    So when I did actual research on why Businesses got a delay but individuals did not, I found:
    1) Businesses will need to provide documentation on their employees benefits and how much the business to covering.
    2) The reporting requirements for businesses were not made as clear as they could have been
    3) Businesses were told by Republicans that the ACA would be repealed and to not worry about it.

    None of these things effect and individual, who only needs to get healthcare (from their employer or through a market place), and they're done.

    I'm not really sure why there is so much confusion about this.

  • Not Braindead Guernsey, WY
    Oct. 15, 2013 10:45 p.m.

    Does it occur to anyone that the ACA Site problems may be caused by Hackers hired by the Obstruction/Sabotage Party? Additionally over the past 30 years, the people they serve have stolen enough money, if they are able to force/cause the Default it will all come crashing down and they will be able to buy EVERYTHING!!!!

  • Star Bright Salt Lake City, Ut
    Oct. 15, 2013 9:03 p.m.

    Hi Vanceone, if your still out there! Bambi here! Good to see you're still fighting the good fight!

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Oct. 15, 2013 7:24 p.m.

    As if Boeing, Microsoft and Apple NEVER have hiccups introducing new products....

  • OTBRICKI Freehold, NJ
    Oct. 15, 2013 6:03 p.m.

    It seems to me that that 'disastrous' is pretty much hyperbole. Here we are two weeks into the process and already the web site is far more useful than it was Oct 1. A couple of days ago I was able to go in and register without any wait screens or errors, and view my options.

    The fact is no large web site goes up without glitches. Doesn't anyone remember the growing pains Amazon and EBay experienced? Or Medicare Part D?

    No, really the only disaster we are experiencing is the government shutdown and palpitations regarding the debt limit. Already the credit rating of the US of A has taken another hit. And our trading partners are calling for a de-Americanization of world trade. This is serious business folks. Losing the status of World Reserve Currency would be a huge blow to the US and it's economic future.

    Make no mistake about it, what is happening in Washington now is a disaster that could affect America for the foreseeable future. The Healthcare.gov website rollout? That's a few weeks of inconvenience and a soon forgotten political talking point.

  • JerryBall San Francisco, CA
    Oct. 15, 2013 5:58 p.m.

    Well, let's see... what could be worse than a shaky rollout of a government program with kinks to be ironed out? Could it be obstinate duty of staying the road of shutting down the entire country? Like the old saying: "We can do without philosophers, we can do without books, but civilized man cannot do without cooks." After the GOP lays off all the cooks, hunger pangs follow.

  • Kimber Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 15, 2013 4:03 p.m.

    People should be reminded that it is only October 15th and open enrollment goes on until December 15th (and actually people can sign up until the end of March) I am a previous health insurance worker and I can tell you it's only the beginning of open enrollment. It's obvious that some want to say this is a disaster before it's even begun. There is a significant reduction in costs if a person actually signs up for a plan when figuring in an income with it. And if someone wants to keep their current plan, it's just fine...THEY DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE. Also, if a person needs help or they can't get on, call the number listed on the website and they will also mail out some information by November.
    As for me, I have been without insurance for seven years and I'm looking forward to the reduced cost I'm getting.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Oct. 15, 2013 3:10 p.m.

    Not that anyone will answer hear my voice. What if I don't want health care? Social Security? United States Postal Service? Abortion planning clinics? The Department of Education? IRS? Is my voice something that you can just stamp on and say 'too bad' for you. I thought all you Democrats were supposed to be caring, charitable people? I thought Democrats went out of their way to understand and help the poor, the indigent, and especially those without a voice? Am I a voice that you can throw in the dumpster like an aborted fetus and say 'too bad'? Do I count? I know the answer! No! That's just the way it is, isn't it? My way or the highway? huh? This sounds oddly familiar! I thought America was supposed to represent the voice of all, not just the rich, the poor, and those who had a voice. My voice hasn't been heard for many, many years. Which Democrat out there has the courage to listen to my voice and help me find a patron, just like every other voice out there. Who?

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    Oct. 15, 2013 1:58 p.m.

    Pres. Obama started debating for the presidency in April of 2007, giving us his ideas of a good future. Nearly 7 years later and 2 election wins later, it is time to get the Affordable Care Act up and running, and enrollment lasts 6 months, let us wait and see. No delay needed. Our economy is growing. And thanks to the president, we exited the recession in summer of 2009. The future is bright.

  • CriticalThinker Jacksonville, FL
    Oct. 15, 2013 8:02 a.m.

    Dear UtahBlueDevil,

    I'm sorry but your argument is off point. You purport that badly run companies proves that my supposition is incorrect. There will always be badly run companies. There are also very good government programs. My point is that the government should NEVER be in the business of acting like a business. I never said that the government is full of idiots. I said that the government has never been able to run an entitlement program with efficiency, effectiveness, and in an economically sound manner. NEVER. Entrusting 1/6 of our economy to the federal government, which is what health care in this country costs, is economic suicide. This morning Herman Caine made my argument: the government is not in the business of being in business. He spoke about how the man at the top, the President, should never have tolerated the bungled roll out of healthcare.gov. He went on to say that a CEO of a top company (not a bad company) would never tolerate such a thing. He or she would be the one to say, "We are not rolling out until we get it right".

  • TrueAmerican56 Corpus Christi, TX
    Oct. 15, 2013 7:26 a.m.

    Glitches were too many people going to websites too quickly, happens every time a new product comes out, go to Apple when they bring out a new product, or even try to go to a new restaurant or store that opens up, what happens? Oh, and personal liberty doesn't give you the ability to crash into me in a vehicle or to go to the emergency room and raise my rates without insurance.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 7:51 p.m.

    Truthseeker nailed it on the head. There are innumerable opportunities for people of all economic levels to provide charity to those who really need it, but we see enormous numbers of uninsured overwhelm emergency rooms. Our tax levels are quite a bit lower than Canada's, but many, many people go without healthcare, or lose their homes to healthcare debt.

    Why don't we see lesser taxed, wealthier people lined up at the ER entrance ready to assist monetarily? I would guess a lot of people feel those at the ER deserve their plight, ie, bad habits.

    In my experience, the most generous people are the poor themselves. They know intimately the struggles of others, and their hearts are softened, they help willingly, and selflessly.

    What does the Bible say about how easy a rich man will get into heaven? Jesus said it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.

    Wealth shields the wealthy from having to see the problems of others. It's much easier to bake some cupcakes for a neighbor in minor distress than go to Pioneer Park and really help where it's needed.

  • Vanceone Provo, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 7:26 p.m.

    I for one am sure that Jesus totally meant harsh governmental penalties, massive bureaucracy, confiscatory taxation, and elite politicians making rules for the peasants to live by that they avoid--and if you don't like it, you hate Jesus!

    If the government doesn't do it, you are a bigot! You push grandma over a cliff if you don't like 20,000 a year deductibles and 10,000 a year premiums for less healthcare than last year! Why, even attempting to criticize the wonders of a socialized economy means you hate children, man!

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 14, 2013 5:28 p.m.

    Critical Thinking.... let me just propose the following..... the US auto industry... the US airlines..... US energy companies like Enron... or retailers like JC Penny, Sears, kMart.... Kodak....Verox... AIG..... do we even need to mention the US banking system that needed billions of loans to float their boats, and even then we still had spectacular bank collapses, or People like Bernie Madoff... the leadership of Tycp....

    We could go on and on with endless list of private corporations that perform poorly. Are you really trying to tell me you get great customer service from your cell phone company, or cable company? Have you ever tried to dispute a billing or statement with your health insurance company.

    Lets be real here. Pretending that the government is a bunch on blundering idiots, and corporate america is significantly better just doesn't measure up under objective scrutiny. I know bash the government is a popular mantra... but the FAA does a great job of keeping our airways safe, our national parks are the life blood of many communities, our military does a spectacular job. The US postal service delivers a letter across country in a couple of days for under 50 cents.

  • Star Bright Salt Lake City, Ut
    Oct. 14, 2013 4:09 p.m.

    "The government will take from the 'haves' and give to the 'have nots.' Both have lost their freedom. Those who 'have' lost their freedom to give voluntarily of their own free will and in the way they desire. Those who 'have not' lost their freedom because they did not earn what they received. They got 'something for nothing,' and they will neither appreciate the gift nor the giver of the gift." Howard W. Hunter, "The Law of the Harvest"
    Thanks Critical Thinker. I almost didn't read the comments because I knew what was coming from our community.

  • CriticalThinker Jacksonville, FL
    Oct. 14, 2013 3:35 p.m.

    Dear Linguist,

    I have a simple philosophy about our government attempting to do the business of of a free market economy: it never has and never will work. The federal government has never been better than private business at managing money, creating opportunity, building wealth, and creating jobs. You don't have to be a Democrat or Republican to prove it. Let's look at your concern about the "glitches" with the healthcare.gov sight.

    Incompetence would not be tolerated by any business executive who is concerned about good customer service, and delivering a good product. He/she knows that someone else in the free market will outdo their business, if they don't stay on top of quality. The federal government has no such incentive to deliver quality, or to do so economically: there is no competition. The federal government has never run like a business. That's why a debt we can't pay is tolerated, and no entitlement program in the history of this nation has ever or will ever deliver on its promise. The same will be said of Obama Care. Mark my words. Insurance reform? Yes. Government in the insurance business? No.

  • JerryBall San Francisco, CA
    Oct. 14, 2013 2:48 p.m.

    Name ONE rollout that went as smoothly as desired. Just ONE please. Then hold the criticism until the rollout irons out the kinks. The problem with critics is that the critics expect perfection while the critics are far from perfect themselves.

  • The Manchurian Durhan, NC
    Oct. 14, 2013 2:19 p.m.

    When "glitches" are not really website glitches...I am thinking about Denial-of-service attacks.

  • E Sam Provo, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 2:16 p.m.

    Come on. The software was a bit glitchy. Look at the states who set up their own exchanges. The program works fine--the website will get fixed.

  • Catbutler Galax, VA
    Oct. 14, 2013 2:00 p.m.

    I am not surprised about the number of references to Christian beliefs. However, although this new law offers Christian relief to those who for one reason or another do not have health care the comment about Lenin and his take on health care is right on the mark. Its important to remember that very little coming out of government has anything to do with anything positive about Christianity... or Mormon... but LOTS to do with politics and government power. The latter part of that is very important. One must decide just how much personal freedom he/she is willing to give up to the government. You may be without health insurance but you still need to think, "Do I really want government to control my health?" Do you want government to make life calls for you and your family? Remember, not all of the government believes in God. I prefer to make life decisions myself and to reserve that decision making to me and my God while leaving government out of the equation.

  • CriticalThinker Jacksonville, FL
    Oct. 14, 2013 1:58 p.m.

    Dear Church Member,

    You are correct that Jesus said we should help the poor. Never the less, his directive was toward individuals, not a government entity. Furthermore, the Christian is not to be compelled to give, as in a government mandate, but from a good conscience and a willing heart. The are many of us who willing practice this ethic, such as myself. I give of my time and I tithe my finances. The framers of our constitution deliberately limited the powers of the federal government so that it would not infringe on personal liberty. Personal liberty includes the freedom to be charitable. It is not the job of the government to tell me or you how to give from the heart. Nor is it the job of the government to take care of us. We don't answer to an entity. We are each responsible to God. Moreover, the Bible also says that if one doesn't take care of his own, i.e. family, he is considered worse than a reprobate. We must work to eat.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 14, 2013 1:47 p.m.

    "Remember Jesus' attempts to help the poor were done through invitation not legislation. "

    What was the govt structure during Jesus' mission on earth?
    Was it a democracy?
    Did leaders collect taxes, and if so, what were they used for?

    Do you imagine Jesus would condemn our democratic system today in which taxpayers contribute to help the needy, disabled, elderly and children? Would he condem those of us who support such programs because it wasn't purely "voluntary"?

    While the Catholic Church recognizes the important role the govt plays in helping others, other denominations remain silent--unless it involves same-sex marriage, abortion or contraception.

    There is nothing stopping you from voluntarily helping people now. I'm sure you could contact local agencies and find those who need help paying medical bills, rent etc. or those who need rides to Drs. appts. or any other variety of help. What are you waiting for?

  • Church member North Salt Lake, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 1:35 p.m.

    To Voice of Reason:

    DO you think American citizens should be forced to buy car insurance?? Why??

  • Linguist Silver Spring, MD
    Oct. 14, 2013 12:50 p.m.

    With respect, it just seems that people on the Right are all too eager for affordable health insurance for all to fail. Why not help make it work instead?

    There were obvious problems with the healthcare.gov site. That's a shame. There also remain 6 months for people to sign up, and already the site is working out the glitches.

    My advice: let them fix the glitches, and if more time is needed in March, extend the enrollment period a bit then.

    Why do it now? There's really only one motivation that I can see, and that's to give the opposition more time to try to convince people they shouldn't sign up for insurance. I find that extremely disingenuous, especially considering that the marketplace idea was touted for a long time by the very conservatives now opposing it.

  • a_voice_of_reason Woods Cross, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 12:45 p.m.

    @ Church member

    To your first point, I'm not against helping people get health insurance (or health care). I'm against the government doing it. Like a referee they should create a level playing field, not a tie game. I personally support organizations, groups, drives, etc. that seek to help individuals who are currently unable to be self-sufficient to become so - managing health care costs included. I feel there is a personal responsibility to help those in need, not a government-mandated responsibility. Remember Jesus' attempts to help the poor were done through invitation not legislation. When the rich young man went away sorrowful after Jesus invited him to sell everything and give to the poor Jesus didn't try to sue him or create a law forcing him to give his riches to the poor. It's a question of agency.

    To your second point, that is a horrible comparison. Millions of people try to get Apple products because they want them, and they are willing to pay the price. Millions are trying to access Obamacare because the government is forcing them. They will be taxed if they don't. BIG difference for measuring success.

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 12:40 p.m.

    @Roland Keyser

    The problem is so much bigger than glitches on a website. The real problem is that there's no demand for the product. The website got millions of hits because visitors were reloading pages over and over again trying to get the site to work. The true way to measure demand is to ask how many people actually made a purchase. It's a question the Obama administration won't answer. The answer is too embarrassing.

    Obamacare is built on the backs of young people, and it's predicated on forcing them to buy products they don't want, at prices they can't afford. If no one signs up on the exchanges, the whole thing collapses. There is no question about this: the scheme will fail. Not because of sabotage by the opposition, but because it's based on the assumption that people will do things that people don't do.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 11:50 a.m.

    Everything is overshadowed by tea party hysteria.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 10:40 a.m.

    In spite of your wishing it so, it isn't nearly the disaster you were hoping for. Maybe if we stopped trying to tear everything down and showed some christian charity, things would be better.

  • FreedomFighter41 Provo, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 9:52 a.m.

    Didn't the GOP already get a delay when the ACA was first passed? Here we are, 3 years later, and they're asking for another delay?

    I think it's painfully obvious what the GOP is trying to do. They pushed for a delay hoping to have the White House by now. They failed. Now, they hope to push for another delay.

    Like an immature child who comes up with excuse after excuse to procrastinate doing their homework, the GOP needs to grow up and let the ACA work.

    Time to move on and work on other things GOP!

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 9:52 a.m.

    The rollout is going great for all those states who chose to set up the exchanges themselves. Those silly states like Utah who said no and left it for the federal gov't are in this giant overwhelmed server system... why did you leave that to the federal gov't anyway? I thought states knew better?

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 9:16 a.m.

    Now the Military Vet's is in line for not getting paid and SSi nd food stamp cards are coming up to be hit. Obama is seeing a lot of money to pay for his health car plan. I"m can't see why Obama isn't impeached.

  • Church member North Salt Lake, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 8:58 a.m.

    Didn't Jesus teach about helping the poor, sick, disabled, and the lowly among us?

    I don't understand how religious people (conservatives) can be so against helping poor and middle class people from getting health insurance.

    Also, when Apple comes out with a new product and millions of people try to get it, isn't it a success?? Millions of people are trying to sign up for Obamacare (ACA). It will work.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 14, 2013 8:56 a.m.

    The rollout has been fine here in CA, and in the other states which developed their own exchanges.

    How goes it in UT? Got any stories to report there?

    Q: Why no postponement for the individual,mandate?
    A: People have waited long enough for the chance to have medical insurance and receive the treatment they need and deserve.

  • a bit of reality Shawnee Mission, KS
    Oct. 14, 2013 8:45 a.m.

    What pragmatistferlife said was exactly right.

    People have until March 31, 2014 to acquire health insurance. That is plenty of time to get the glitches worked out.

    The ACA is based upon a great compromise with private inusrnace companies--insurance companies will now grant insurance to the folks who couldn't pass underwriting, but only if the government has a "mandate" that gently encourages everybody to sign up. Delaying the mandate is a betrayal of the insurance companies who are doing their part by extending coverage to the otherwise uninsurable.

    Delaying the individual mandate could drive insurance companies out of the market. Is destroying the private health insurance industry the Repubicans' objective, or would that be an unintended consequence?

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 8:16 a.m.

    Obamacare is the keystone to single payer healthcare aka government or national healthcare.

    The Russian communist Vladimir Lenin, too, understood the role of medicine when he opined, “Medical care is the keystone in the arch of socialism.”

    "One of the first acts of the new Bolshevik government was to nationalize health care – again, not out of altruistic concern for the masses of Russian peasants, but to centralize control over the population and over physicians, who tended to be free thinkers and well respected by the citizens".

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Oct. 14, 2013 7:27 a.m.

    Great explanation BlueDevil. Let me just add one simple explanation to the question of why you can delay the employer mandate and not the individual mandate. Every system has core principles from which all other policies and actions are derived. The core principle of the ACA is everyone should be covered and everyone should pay (one way or another).

    You can delay the employer mandate because it's simply one way to achieve the overall principle of everyone covered everyone pays. You delay the individual mandate and you've killed the ACA, so don't think this is just some benign helpful suggestion. It's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

  • Iron Rod Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 6:39 a.m.

    Just a thought.

    The person or persons who wrote this article obviously have good insurance for both themselves and their family.

    The attitude "I have mine and I do not care if others do not have it" is not very Christian like in my opinion.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 14, 2013 6:04 a.m.

    Lets be clear here..... the roll out is simply the beginning of a 6 month open enrollment period. Second, the problems being experienced are not the result of a government agency putting out shoddy work, it is the result of Experian, the contractor who built the system, who didn't do their job right. Yes, the same people you entrust your credit score to... that built the system that got over loaded.

    No one is being denied medical treatment. No one is being denied insurance because of structural problems with Obamacare itself. It is a contractor underestimated the load that would be put on the system, and didn't do enough testing, that is the problem. Hardly an indication of if Obamacare is a failure. No more so than when you can't log into your online banking account a sign that the US banking system is a failure.

    Deep Sea Horizon was an avoidable failure that cost lives, and billions of dollars. And yet you don't see people saying the US carbon supply system is a failure.

  • Hamath Omaha, NE
    Oct. 14, 2013 4:45 a.m.

    If Congress can't figure out how to balance a budget, then why do we expect them to be able to figure out solutions to other more complex things such as solutions to poverty and education and medical pricing and....

    Budgets are not that hard to figure out. Spend less than you take it. Save 10%. Have an emergency fund.

    They should hire Dave Ramsey.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 12:22 a.m.

    The rollout of Bush's Medicare Part D program also had plenty of glitches. One big difference between the two, of course, is that Republicans have been doing everything in their power to make sure that the ACA fails. Democrats didn't like Medicare Part D, and voted against if for the most part. But once it was the law of the land, Democrats let it go forward without trying to wreck it.

    Also, a big part of the problem with the ACA rollout is that so many millions of Americans have been trying to sign up, that it has overwhelmed the system. The insurance doesn't go into effect until 1/1/14, so everyone still has plenty of time to sign up.