The President's executive order put off the employer mandate until 2015.
The house wants him to do the same with the individual mandate?Something is wrong here, and it's not the House.
Let's be honest what this is all about. The Republicans are
standing up against a huge corporate welfare program for insurance companies
(called the ACA), which takes huge amounts of tax payer money and transfers it
to insurance companies and adds additional taxes on the poor who are now
required to give their money to the insurance companies too. Boy I
bet those democrat candidates will get wonderful donations from the insurance
industry!Democrats - Raising taxes on the poor (per the SCOTUS) - Giving the money to big insurance corporations -
Shutting down the governmentRepublicans - trying to stop the
corporate welfare to insurance companies - oppose increasing
taxes on the poor - have offered bill after bill to fund the
governmentSo who is doing the right thing?
The Tea Party (including Utah's own Mike Lee), are about destroying, not
building. If they intended to build, they would make some reasoned, rational
proposals to amend the ACA in a way that constructively addresses the serious
problems we have with our health insurance and care system. They don't
even pretend to have any constructive ideas. Instead, they seek to take the
nation hostage, destroy people's lives, and ruin the economy. Childish
petulance is the worst way to govern. Years ago, many in the U.S. mocked the
"banana republics" and their instability. That is what Lee, Cruz, the
Tea Pary, and Utah's Congressional delegation are doing to this country.
They can make all of the excuses they want, but there is an orderly way to take
care of the country's business, and they need to accept the fact that the
ACA was adopted in full compliance with the Constitution, upheld by the Supreme
Court, and effectively ratified by the people in 2012. Now after three years,
the right wing wants to state a coup and impose their will. In my book, that is
totalitarianism, not freedom. Their true colors are being exposed.
@glendenbg "The separation of powers does not imply that one part of the
government is superior to the others parts and therefore can dictate to
them."Of course it doesn't. No one has said that it does.
That is a straw man argument you have invented yourself. The Senate isn't
forced to pass any House bill, and the president isn't forced to sign
it.Similarly, there is absolutely nothing in the Constitution which
says that the present Congress is bound to continue funding passed by any
previous Congress. Your claim that these actions are "unprecedented" is
simply not true. They are commonplace. For one example, the border fence
continues to be the law of the land, but is now unfunded by Congress.I won't presume to judge whether the actions of the House of
Representatives will produce more or fewer votes for Republicans. That
doesn't matter very much to me. Perhaps when Obamacare is fully
implemented, and does its foreseeable damage to individuals and the economy, the
people will remember that someone took a stand and tried their best to avoid the
HBSnow Canyon and Red Canyon are great! And the fees stay in
Utah!mattb7The liberals put us in this game a long time
ago. Lee just plays it too well for the liberals' liking.It is
after midnight with no budget passed. So are we still deficit spending?
Probably. We can't even afford the bare essentials.
@mattb7Sterling, VALet me try this. Two years from now, after
Republicans have gotten trashed in the Senate, ....======Agreed!This is precisely what will indeed happen.Karma
-- what goes around, comes around.Imagine if it was a
uber-far-LEFT-wing in the minority....Who suddenly decides NOT to fund the
budget unless it de-funds the Military, or Farm subsides, or Big Oil, or Big
Tobacco, or Big Business.Either that orA new Democratic House,
and Senate, and President Hillary.Ay caramba!You conservatives
think you've got problems now!...
I am going to be upset if these darn Republicans ruin my fall break vacation as
our family (intends to) visit some national parks..
@T. Party - your statement falsely assumes I haven't read Madison and that
doing so would persuade me to agree with the House Republicans' tactics.
The Madisonian constitution specifies that spending bills originate
in the House. It also gives both the Senate and the President the power to
agree with or veto those bills. The separation of powers does not imply that
one part of the government is superior to the others parts and therefore can
dictate to them. In 2012, Mitt Romney ran on a platform remarkably
similar to the demands of the House Republicans and lost decisively.
Nationwide, Democratic congressional candidates received more votes than
Republican congressional candidates. Right now public polling shows clearly
that the majority of Americans disagree with House Republicans. If they are
closer to the public, as you claim, then those things would not be true. What we're seeing is a radical and unprecedented attempt to up-end
the Madisonian system. If you support that attempt, say so. But don't
pretend that what we're seeing is consistent with the US Constitutional
If you support what Cruz, Kantor, and Utah's Mike Lee are doing against the
US democratic system, honesty and understanding require you also to admit that
you no longer support this system. Or you don't understand it, which a few
posts here suggest. Parroting conservative radio-show ideologues--and Cruz--in
saying that Democrats are to blame for shutting down the government because
"the House passed 99 percent of the spending bill" is astonishing. A
bill was debated and passed in the House and the Senate. The President signed
it. The Supreme Court declared it legal. Some like it; some hate it. But the
system declares finality, not small groups of subversives. Let me
try this. Two years from now, after Republicans have gotten trashed in the
Senate, losing five seats there (I used to vote mostly Republican--not any
more). A small, wingnut core of liberal Democrats there agrees to fund the
government ONLY IF an initiative based on legislation conservatives pushed AND
PASSED gets defunded. These wingnuts argue "We're funding 99 percent
of the government, just not the conservatives' initiative . . ."
Nowwwwwww can you see the dangerous road Lee and his buddies have put us on?
It is amazing how few people learned the lessons last time we went through this
process. The Media did a phenomenal job of making this process look like it was
Gingrich and the Republican's fault for the governement shut-down. If the
Republicans want control of the Senate or White House come 2016, they need to do
a better job of managing and showing they are the party that would do a better
job of managing more than half of this country. Currently, only Utah and a few
southern states will vote Republican. This won't cut it when we really need
a strong leader for this nation. The current challenges we face are really
rather small. I suspect that someday we as a nation will be faced with a bigger
challenge than 9/11, and I pray that we are up to the challenge.
The tea party goal is commonly referred to as a "hissy fit" or
"super sour grapes".
Create a fiscal and economic disaster to stop a future fiscal disaster? Obstruct
healthcare to save healthcare? Act insane to create institutional insanity?
@glendenbg "They are demanding that the House be treated as the superior
part of government, not as a coequal with the Senate and half of a Congress that
is coequal with the White House."Separation of powers means that
some powers are held by one branch of government in unequal proportion with the
other branches. Power of the purse belongs to Congress, and especially to the
House of Representatives. It's the closest branch to the people (members
face re-election every two years, etc.). Read James Madison, if you want to know
the reasoning behind it all.As Mike has pointed out, spending bills
are supposed to originate in the House. The Senate is playing a cynical game by
gutting an existing bill and replacing it with their own version. This violates
the spirit of the Constitution, if not the letter."All Bills for
raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate
may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills."Gutting-and-replacing is a different thing than amending. But I've never
known Harry Reid to give a dang about what the Constitution actually says.
Served Newt well, he is one of the few rational voices in the dog eat dg
LDS Liberal - "The Republicans say repeal and replace -- OK, with WHAT?Suggest something Better."They have; maybe you need to do a
little research. I do not understand anyone who thinks it's ok for the Fed.
Govt. to run our health insurance industry. (It's not about "health
care" folks.) The solution is free market health insurance.
Eliminate health insurance from employers. Insurance companies would need to
advertise and sell us their insurance plans just like auto insurance companies.
Let them beg for our business and you would see the costs of insurance come down
plus a huge variety of choices, i.e., minimal coverage and low mo. premiums for
young healthy individuals; more coverage for families but still a choice of
benefits; higher mo. premiums for those who are unhealthy (like auto insurance:
bad drivers pay more).
I think it's important to name the truly radical nature of the goals of the
House of Representatives - I'm not talking about their grab-bag of rejected
policies. House Republicans are behaving as if the results of the last election
are null and void and the policy implications of 2012 should be ignored. They
are demanding that the House be treated as the superior part of government, not
as a coequal with the Senate and half of a Congress that is coequal with the
White House.Since January 2011, when the Republican majority was
seated in the House, they have engaged in a series of unprecedented actions,
including threatening the credit worthiness of the nation. They are engaging in
government by emergency - creating a series of crises and then using those
invented crises to demand concessions. In other words, they've abandoned
the normal process of negotiation, discussion and compromise required by the
basic structure of our constitutional republic.The nature of the
tactics themselves is the problem - threatening the normal functioning of
government as well as extraordinary consequences to implement a policy agenda
that did not win the last election.
@Mike Richards – “All budget bills originate in the House.”Show of hands – how many think that if the situation were reserved
– a Democrat controlled House were passing a funding bill that stripped
out a fully passed and SC approved law the Republicans favored (say, the
“Crony Capitalism and Nepotism Investment Act”) – Mike
“Mr. Constitution” Richards would be lecturing all of us on the
Constitutional role of the Senate and the Executive and their equal roles in
passing legislation.My hand is up… in case you couldn’t
see it.And if the ACA is such a “boondoogle” and doomed
to fail – as the Right has been telling us for years – why all the
fuss in trying to kill it before it goes into effect? Surely in the years ahead
the country will grow to hate it too and then everyone will vote R and killing
it will be as easy as (apple) pie.
Mike Richards,"If people in America could read and would read,
they would see that it is Obama who is threatening to shut down the
see if I understand you correctly. A group of determined Republican Congressmen
want to defund the ACA using the budget process to prevent the Government from
doing its job. But because the Democrats refuse to passively go along with that,
they are the ones who want to shut down the Government.Sorry, but
you'll have to do better than that to persuade me.
The Republicans shutting down the Government reminds me of an old strategy in
the game of Tub-o-War.If you're going to loose anyway, let go
of the rope and let America fall.========== Mike
Richards, Self educated Constitutional Scholar that you claim to be...How can Obama be responsible?, He only has a pen.How can this be
ALL about him and only him, when the Congress hasn't even given him
anything to Sign, Veto or even line item Veto?IMO - your accusations
are off-base.For someone who keeps telling us over and over again
that Obama is a not a King, you are the one giving him more than enough credit
for being one.
Intractable ideology tends to blind one to common sense. I see that in the
combative tone of the right wing stance. It’s not the entire Republican
Party that’s spoiling for a confrontation with the White House. But it is
the entire Republican Party that might be tarnished when the dust settles. For
Obama, it will be his duty to stand firm as a firewall against the right wing
extremism that’s outside the mainstream in America. That’s called
If people in America could read and would read, they would see that it is Obama
who is threatening to shut down the government. The Republicans have passed a
budget bill. Reid abused his authority and striped that bill. (Maybe he
can't read either. All budget bills originate in the House. The Senate is
trying to "originate" a bill different than the one passed in the
House).Obama wants to delay implementation of his ObamaCare. He
does not want us to see it for what it is - a boondoogle that will cripple
business and send many Americans into the "poor house". It is not a
"health-care" bill, no matter what lies Obama and his followers tell us.
It is a revenue bill that will let Obama and his fellow liberals grab 18% to
25% of our income to fund their "pork".If Obama wants to
shut down the government, then so be it. He cares nothing at all about you and
me and the rest of America. He'll throw all of us under the bus to get
what he wants. Reid and Pelosi will do the same. In the absence of
leadership, we have them.
Senator Bennett is right, again.But, Now we have a loose
cannon - Green Eggs and Ham, obstructionist - willing to sink the entire ship
rather than fix a small hole, representing the State of Utah.
Christian 24-7,I understand and love the Biblical story you cite.
But those of us who are LDS believe we have a Samuel in our day - Thomas S.
Monson.Has he warned against the ACA?Please, no vague
references by others long ago. But the living prophet today?If not,
your analogy may be misplaced.
ECRBennett a statesman? Hillarious. All he did was loathe people
with hollow promises and then sat on his duff and became a total yes man when he
wasn't in campaign mode.
"That is why we have Lee instead of Bennett. We made a good trade!!!"Please ask yourself this. - Which one of these men enjous the reputation
as a pragmatic statesman who worked for decades with those across the aisle to
produce good legislation that helped everyone in the nation? And which one
looks like a baffoon espousing strategies that almost no one thinks will work as
he stands in the shadow of his new big brother, Ted Cruz?
A government shutdown wont really shut down the government. -
Federal air traffic controllers will continue to monitor take offs and
landings;- The TSA will still be screening passengers in US
airports;- The US military will stay on duty and many credit unions
and banks will cover their Oct. 15 paychecks if they are delayed;-
Embassies and consulates overseas will continue to provide services to American
citizens;- The mail will continue to be delivered;-
Federal courts will continue to operate;- The US Supreme Court will
continue to operate as normal when it resumes on October 7;- Taxes
will continue to be collected;- Sales taxes will continue to be
collected- Garbage will continue to be collected;- Visa
services for people traveling to the United States will continue to operate;- US passport applications will continue to be processed normally;- Green card applications will continue to be processed normally;- Social Security and Medicare benefits will continue to operate
normally;- The vast majority of Homeland Security employees will
stay on the job;- The vast majority of Coast Guard employees will
stay on the job;- The vast majority of Border Patrol agents will
stay on the job
In the Bible, the people wanted a king, like other nations, but Samuel warned
against it. Kings would take their wealth, and their freedom, and even their
children. So they got a king, and he did all that was told themIn
our day there is a voice of many that want socialized medicine, like other
nations. We have been warned that is will not work, that it will eat up all our
wealth, and place it in the hands of the few in power. Freedom will be lost.
Children will be denied treatments, and will be lost. The elderly also. But
there are those who won't listen. But like the kings of old,
when health care is in power, it won't listen to the needs of the people,
and the people will suffer and perish.
Go along to get along, and to save face. That's the Bennett plan? That is
why we have Lee instead of Bennett. We made a good trade!!!99% of
the government is funded in the original bill offered by the House. The
democrats in the Senate said no. They want 100% or nothing. How is that the
republicans fault? It isn't, unless you believe in Santa Claus,
Cinderella's fairy godmother, and the lies MSNBC and the rest of the
democrats are telling you. The president said he didn't want
any drama, but then he and his senate henchmen created drama. I guess he really
did want drama. Too bad he can't just tell the truth.
Elder Dallin H. Oaks.Oct. 2007Good, Better, Best.ACA is Good, but far from perfect.The Republicans say repeal and replace
-- OK, with WHAT?Suggest something Better.IMHO- a Single Payer
system is Best.
@T. Party – “If the government shuts down, it will be because Obama
and the Senate refuse to compromise.”We’ve been hearing
this quite a bit from the Right as of late. It reminds me of that Al Franken
character on Saturday Night Live who used to look in the mirror and say,
“I’m smart enough, I’m good enough, and gosh darnit, people
like me.” Somehow we knew that all his hours of positive reinforcement
would crumble in the face of reality.@TwinThanks for
articulating the facts and… reality.
The government is funded by the House bill. It is only Obamacare that is
defunded. If the government shuts down, it will be because Obama and the Senate
refuse to compromise.Obamacare is already a job killer. It has
already raised the cost of health care. It will be worse when it fully
materializes. We have a chance now to minimize the damage.But Obama
says, "I will not negotiate."
Why would this President blink? Despite the "polls" concerning the
popularity of the law, he won and Republicans lost when the law was passed. He
won and the Republicans lost at the Supreme court. He won and Republicans lost
when he was re-elected and the law was front and center in the election. He won
and Republicans lost when Republicans lost seats in congress last election. Why would he blink when the last minute gestures by the Republicans
include things like, employers being allowed to opt out of contraception
I fully agree. Unfortunately so many of those in the Republican Party who
remember this are either out of office or have been marginalized by the new Tea
Party oriented young guns. Their mantra seems to be "my way or the
highway" and "consequences be darned". Compromise has become a
dirty word.Of course the patron saint of the modern party is Ronald
Reagan. He could be tough when he wanted to be. But he also knew how to
fashion a deal and get at least part of what he wanted. He believed in a party
with a "big tent" - meaning he invited independents and moderate
Democrats to join in. He understood that big ideas and efforts needed wide
support - not simply a committed minority.In a democratic republic
such as ours you need votes. We were not built to be ruled by a minority group
no matter how high-minded they might be.
Well Sen. Bennett with all due respect. That is why you are no longer a Senator!
I remember it being a little different. I remember a President that refused to
talk or compromise with a Republican House and Senate. I remember it ending in a
shutdown, that ended when both sides agreed to compromise. It was
worth getting both sides talking in my opinion. A lot of bills were passed out
of Congress, with both sides having a voice. Let's hope this happens again.