“If it works in college... why can't it work in High
School?”Yes, I also had the infamous American Heritage 100
class in the Joseph Smith Auditorium as well as several other huge introductory
level classes. I learned because I went to the labs (one on one or small
groups) that were always attached to those classes. I don’t know that
“we” (as in everyone) always learned. Aren’t those the classes
that freshmen often fail and then drop out of college because of that failure?
I think they are. Furthermore, I was highly motivated to learn and
succeed in college because I was paying 100% of my tuition costs. This is a HUGE
difference between high school and college classes. Could it be that Senator Pat
Jones is on the right track? Maybe parents need to pay more for the education of
their children in order for them to take more of a personal interest in the
academic progress of their students? (I will need to ponder further on that
idea).But this I know--It IS criminal to have 45 students in a
The key word in the sentence "Money alone won't make schools
better" is alone. That means that money needs to a partner in whatever we do
to improve our schools. When people say that class size doesn't matter,
imagine being the English teacher who has to grade papers. Would you rather have
150 papers to grade or 240 papers? How much more input could you provide to 150
students as opposed to 240. Believe it or not, many junior high and high school
teachers have that many students to take care of, and they don't have
teaching assistants to help with the grading. Imagine what something radical
like adding a second adult in every classroom could do to our educational system
here in Utah. It would be amazing.
2 bits:I have a college education. But how many drop out of college
and never finish? if our schools had the same drop out rate colleges have,
people would truly be up in arms more than they are now. Therefore, I truly
reject your premise that learning with hundreds of students in a lecture hall
works. My best classes even in college were in a small group of
students or even when I was fortunate enough to meet with my professors one on
one. Once you're deep in your major, classes are smaller, sometimes very
small. Did you do all your higher level classes in a large auditorium? Think
back, I seriously doubt it. The main purpose of survey courses by the way to
weed out students. I guess we can weed out younger students and send them out
in the streets, but I don't think that is a good idea. Finally, let's take your premise all they way to its logical absurdity.
Maybe we could put 400 first graders in an auditorium with one teacher and see
if that works. Your assertion or premise is so insipid it's beyond
When will the DN finally drop the censorship? Will the DN or China continue
Of course, money alone won't improve schools, but to do anything to improve
them will cost money.
Rich people disagree. They send their own kids to MORE expensive schools, not
Howard,In college I had classes that were taught in an auditorium of
hundreds of students (and we learned). Some of these kids are just one year
away from being in these classes. And yet... you claim it's
"Criminal" to have 45 students in a class!If it works in
college... why can't it work in High School?Class size
isn't the only reason students don't learn (sometimes the student
doesn't want to learn or thing you can make him learn). Money won't
fix that.-Students who demand a good education will find one (they
may have to take special classes).-Parents who demand a good education
will find one (they may have to pay more for it).-You don't have to
grovel at the feet of government to get a good education.-Pouring $$$ in
doesn't automatically mean kids will want or get a better education.
Mr Evensen, How do you know more money won't help our schools? We've
never tried it.
If a teacher has 20-25 students he/she can actually teach. Maybe 30 if they are
gifted or have good, easy-going students. Get up in the 40 range, which is
where many teachers are at in many of our secondary schools, teachers simply
become class managers. Some learning can go on but it becomes very difficult.
Get up to 45 which is happening more and more in our secondary schools, I would
almost call this criminal. Our legislature knows this is happening but they
don't seem to care. It seems like most district administrators and school
boards ignore the issues as well hiding in their offices most often making
policy decisions that make things worse. Many parents don't realize fully
how quality education is being eroded simply by huge class sizes. Even if every
teacher was Jaime Escalante, they can't truly succeed in these conditions
on a consistent basis. Money does matter. And as our schools become
increasingly diverse, especially with ESL students, Utah can continue to load up
their class sizes at its peril.
Learning some manners and how to be polite would be a good thing. since morals
and mentality is a big part of being a educated person. Seems to me that the
teachers aren't that educated any more.
Money alone won't force kids to learn. What IS required is a student body
that WANTS to lean, students who DEMAND to learn and be taught, and students who
want to grow and expand their knowledge in every aspect possible.The
problem Utah has more and more now days (and something other communities have
been battling for decades before it became such a problem in Utah
communities)... is the growing number of kids in school that don't WANT to
be in school. And the number of kids that will invest their whole school
career in finding the easiest way to get by while learning as little as
possible.That growing body of students is what's dragging our
collective scores down... NOT the lack of money.
I agree with Mr. Evensen to a point. Our school problems can't be fixed by
throwing money at them. However in Itah we have never adequately funded
education, at least not in my 28+ years of education. We have never adequately
addressed the concept of attendance and it's importance in our schools.
September is the national and state's "Attendance Awareness" month
but not one single school district is pushing this in their schools. Why not?Finally, our children are not proficient in technology. They can play
video games but I have college bound seniors who do not know how to navigate
even slightly the Internet.
Wrong again, Jay. There's an old principle, "You Get What You Pay
For." As long as Utah is comfortable with paying the least in the nation, we
will continue to get what we've paid for -- the biggest class sizes, the
least personal attention to students, the lowest-paid teachers (proportionally),
and a continued slide downward from mediocrity. And technology can only do so
much: a flatscreen can't hug a hurting child. (BTW, the "State Budget
Solutions" organization is a front for the right-wing no-tax crowd, which
you fail to acknowledge. How about giving us the whole story?)