@the truth"The true face of the left reveals itself,"Except that Putin used this to boost his credentials with the orthodox
religious right. Besides... have you seen the posts here? It's the
conservatives tripping over themselves to agree with Russia on this while the
liberals are disgusted.
Russia has for a long time preferred that its own people be strengthened by
traditional morality and for the West to be weakened by a loss of same. No
change in policy.It is interesting that today it is places like
Nigeria and Russia that seem to understand the ennervating effect on any nation,
of abandoning traditional morals, and strange indeed that Bible morality is
being ditched in the "Christian" part of the world while nations that
are heavily atheistic or even Islamic have accepted and are upholding
@Tators --"And what makes you think that negatively labeling and
judging anyone who doesn't agree with you deserves any kind of
acceptance?"Nothing at all. Fortunately, I don't do
anything of the kind. ;-)"If you don't agree with
discrimination, then don't participate in it yourself by using labels and
harsh judgments of others who don't happen to agree with you. "Recognizing harmful actions is not discrimination.@Twinkie
--Since last night, I realized that the guy you referenced is
actually from NARTH. Since their whole raison d'etre is to condemn
homosexuality, one can hardly regard him as an objective or trustworthy
scientific researcher.If you're really interested in the
biological underpinnings of homosexuality, check out a December 2012 research
paper published in the Quarterly Review of Biology, called "Homosexuality as
a Consequence of Epigenetically Canalized Sexual Development". Those scientists -- REAL scientists -- are now thinking that homosexuality may
be influenced by epigenetic variables. Sorry, it's too technical to explain
well within the words I've got available. Significantly, though, the
authors specifically note that "Pedigree and twin studies indicate that
homosexuality has substantial heritability in both sexes".
@Tators"So if someone doesn't agree with your idea of what's
morally acceptable, then you apparently think it's OK for you to label
those people as "fascist". "No... there's a
difference between just thinking homosexuality isn't morally acceptable and
thinking that people should be arrested for it. The latter is the one that
involves asserting gov't control over others to an extreme degree.
@Bob K"Does everyone realize that two 25 year-olds holding hands or
stealing a peck on the cheek could be arrested for "promoting"?"Oh, no wonder this is agreeable to a decent number of people here,
it's just like that incident downtown.
Christopher B says:"This law is a reasonable compromise.They have made it clear that simply having an attraction to someone of the
same gender will not be punishable at all.It is only illegal to try
and push a lifestyle choice on others or encourage others to go against the
moral code established."-- Do you and your SO ever hold hands in
public? Kiss in public? Wear a cross or star of David in public? "Reasonable compromise"? I guess, when you're not affected.@Twinkie the Kid & worf;Can you change your sexual
orientation? Just wondering. Genetics is far more complicated than you insist.
Too bad the olympics can't be about sport. There is always some group or
other that wants to make political statements using the Olympic
platform....That's why my interest continues to decrease in the games.
Oh, I could say so much. But I want my comment approved. I loved what Bob K.
had to say and agree with him. I was born and raised in SLC, and my whole
family is Mormon. While Worf and Twinkie the Kid think they are right, I
disagree with them. I am a straight ally and there is nothing that will change
that. I think that comparing being gay to incest is sick. I believe it would
be a real drag if we were all the same.
"We found 52 percent of identical twin brothers of gay men also were gay,
compared with 22 percent of fraternal twins, compared with 11 percent of
genetically unrelated brothers," said J. Michael Bailey, an assistant
professor of psychology at Northwestern University in Evanston, "which is
exactly the kind of pattern you would want to see if something genetic were
going on." By "unrelated," Dr. Bailey was referring to brothers by
Identical twins DO NOT have identical DNA. You do not understand genetics.
However, over 50% of twins where one twin is gay, the other is also gay.
Genetically, this is a huge percentage. Another example, among identical twins
where one twin s left-handed, less than 50% of the other twins are NOT
left-handed.If identical twins have 100% same DNA, as you suppose, why are
there left-handed twins who have right-handed twins?
The true face of the left reveals itself,Historically the communist
and socialists have always hated the gays,even the left here
strongly supports the muslims, who strongly hate the gays.Perhaps
the gays should wake up and realize they are only being used here for the
extreme left to gain political power and control.
I doubt Russia would except Anthony Weiner either. Even though his behavior is
"Because identical twins are always genetically identical"Too bad the whole things falls apart because the above statement is false.You are leaving out epigenetics the thing that can cause one twin to get say
parkinson and the other not.So I must ask Twink when did you decide
to become strait?To bad I can't find an actual scientific
article since all the info you sight is from right wing christian propaganda
sites.that site studies from the early 90's
I have a friend who is not gay, but has an identical twin brother who is.Like learning to speak with an accent, it's a learned behavior.
@ Contrariuser:And what makes you think that negatively labeling and
judging anyone who doesn't agree with you deserves any kind of
acceptance?I simply stated previously that if a person advocate a
certain level of conduct, they should be willing to live by it themselves. If
you don't agree with discrimination, then don't participate in it
yourself by using labels and harsh judgments of others who don't happen to
agree with you. It's not really a principle that should be so
difficult to understand. It just takes keeping both eyes open.
@Chris B --"2 brothers being able to marry."Remember, we're talking about **risk** of harm, not **certainty** of
harm.Back to the drunk driving comparison. One person may be able to
drive drunk and get home safely -- but that doesn't mean that drunk driving
should be made legal. Similarly, one specific case of adult consensual incest
may not harm anyone -- but that doesn't mean that incest in general should
be made legal.In contrast, consensual homosexual relations --
especially stable monogamous ones, as with gay marriage -- don't increase
the risk of harm to anyone.@Twinkie --"People are
not born gay."You don't seem to understand the difference
between congenital and genetic, nor between genetic predisposition and genetic
predetermination.There are many congenital conditions that are not
genetic. Cerebral palsy is one well known example. Also,
"genetic predisposition" is not at all the same thing as "genetic
predetermination". For instance, women who are born with a mutated BRCA 1
gene have a high risk of breast cancer -- but not a 100% chance of it. Is their
cancer genetic? Yes, absolutely. But if identical twins were born with the
mutated gene, would both of them get cancer? Maybe, maybe not.
Bob K:People are not born gay. Saying people are born gay is false.
Do a Google search for "Identical Twin Studies Show the Only Gay Genes that
Exist are Made by Versace" for some recent identical twin studies. Here is a snippet of some of the study and article:"Identical
twins have the same genes or DNA. They are nurtured in equal prenatal
conditions. If homosexuality is caused by genetics or prenatal conditions and
one twin is gay, the co-twin should also be gay.""Because
they have identical DNA, it ought to be 100%," Dr. Whitehead notes. But the
studies reveal something else. "If an identical twin has same-sex attraction
the chances the co-twin has it are only about 11% for men and 14% for
women.""Because identical twins are always genetically
identical, homosexuality cannot be genetically dictated. “No-one is born
gay,” he notes. “The predominant things that create homosexuality in
one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors.”
Contagion,Consensual homosexual relationships between two brothers
also harms nobody.Please don't tell me you wouldn't
support 2 brothers being able to marry.That would be
@Tators --"Being accepting of how others think and feel needs to
go both ways. Otherwise, hypocrisy becomes the issue."Why would
you ever think that doing an active harm to others deserves any kind of
acceptance?Consensual homosexual relationships harm nobody. Beating people up on the street does.It's really very
@ Sneaky Jimmy and alt34:So if someone doesn't agree with your
idea of what's morally acceptable, then you apparently think it's OK
for you to label those people as "fascist". Or is anyone else
doesn't specifically agree with you as to what's morally reasonable,
then you automatically feel they should have their feelings
"re-calibrated" to be in line with you, or else bring on the
boycotts!Wow... now that really is ironical. I'm not quite sure
who ordained any of us (mortals) to be the ultimate judge of morality concerning
others. But it does appear that anything in agreement with you is moral... and
anything not in agreement with you is automatically immoral.Aren't you part of the group who are always clamoring for others to not
be so judgmental and also telling us we should be accepting of others who
don't always think the way we (traditionalists) think? Or is that just a
one-sided coin... something along the lines of "do as I say and not as I
do"?Being accepting of how others think and feel needs to go
both ways. Otherwise, hypocrisy becomes the issue.
Does everyone realize that two 25 year-olds holding hands or stealing a peck on
the cheek could be arrested for "promoting"?Does everyone realize
that this forum is owned by a church whose members fought hard for religious
freedom, but, in some of the letters here, want to quash the freedom of
others?I think if I read another "The Gays are trying to take
over everything and force us to do XYZ" letter, I will explode.There
are many, many thousands of lds children born Gay. May I respectfully suggest
you put your effort on finding ways to keep them in your community other than
telling them they should put aside their nature in order to stay in the church?
@ Happy Valley Heretic:There's a certain irony here in you
demonstrating so clearly who possesses the real bigotry here. It appears Russia
doesn't actually have anything over you.
Although I don't support gay marriage, these laws reject the unalienable
right to freedom of speech. If you are a conservative like me, you
shouldn't support this because it goes against the constitution.
It seems as though a few of the commenters here would prefer living in Russia as
opposed to the U.S.A. I invite them to try it and report back their findings.
All those individual and civil rights sure get in the way, don't they? Here
in utah we've inadvertently embraced a lot of the things we used to deride
about the old soviet system.
@Christopher B"It is only illegal to try and push a lifestyle choice
on others or encourage others to go against the moral code established.Fair compromise."It's not fair at all, it's fascist.
So Russia outdoes the right wing religious conservatives in bigotry, and they
cheer their comrades as setting an example.Good news for all you who have
been looking for a gay free nation to move to, The biggest "Red State"
"The law applies equally to everyone and 'cannot be regarded as
discrimination based on sexual orientation,' Kozak said."When a person can be arrested for simply stating "I am gay" or for
wearing a rainbow T-shirt, that is clear discrimination.When a Duma
official feels comfortable telling a police officer in the middle of a riot to
"beat them up well!" and "cut their (essential parts of their
anatomy) off!", that is clear discrimination.When a local yokel
thinks it's perfectly okay to violate and beat a guy to death just because
he's gay -- and then brag about it to a reporter -- that is clear
discrimination.When a person tells you that 2 + 2 = 5, try thinking
This is very accommodating of the regime. Just like Berlin in 1936, "No jews
will be persecuted during the Olympics". Is "Gay propaganda"
similar to Mormon propaganda or Human Rights propaganda? Anyone that feels
Russia is in anyway a reasonable or moral country needs to have their own moral
compass re calibrated. It's time for a boycott.
@worf, when did we become Russia. I so miss the old days, when right was right,
and morals were alive in the good old USA. Now, not so much...
This law is a reasonable compromise.They have made it clear that
simply having an attraction to someone of the same gender will not be punishable
at all.It is only illegal to try and push a lifestyle choice on
others or encourage others to go against the moral code established.Fair compromise.Great job Russia!
Remember when our country set the standards?