Immigration reform done the right way

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  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 11:55 a.m.

    Re "Remind me again what the Republicans did about immigration during the 6 years under Bush when they controlled the house and the senate"...

    If you will remember Bush TRIED to pass comprehensive immigration reform when he was President. But it was blocked.

    So at least some in Congress are consistent (I think that's a good thing). They voted against it when Bush proposed it, and they vote against it when Obama proposes it. When politicians vote against something just because the wrong President/party proposed it... that bugs me (and both parties do it). If you have concerns with amnesty-first immigration reform... you should be against it whether a Republican OR a Democrat President pushes for it.

    I think many Americans still feel burned by what happened when Reagan passed "Comprehensive Immigration Control" (AKA Amnesty now with promise of enforcement later). The Amnesty happened, but the promised follow-up enforcement never materialized.

    That's exactly the problem with this bill. It puts amnesty first with a promise to get to enforcement later. But we KNOW it won't happen that way. No President or party dares enforce immigration law at this point. Risks losing key swing-votes.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 10:28 p.m.

    Re: "After 20 years, the children of the illegal immigrants will be U.S. citizens and voters, and then they can support the party that didn't try to deport mom and dad . . . ."

    The problem with that liberal dream -- and tactic -- is that Hispanics are neither as monolithic, nor as dumb as liberals hope. To a man, we come here, not because America is as poor, backward, and corrupt as our third-world patria, but rather, because she is NOT.

    Liberals are unlikely to curry favor with Hispanics by pursuing an agenda whose inevitable end will be the destruction of the Nation we fled to, and her conversion into a third-world cesspool, worse-off than the old country we remember so fondly, but left so resolutely.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 10:08 p.m.

    "Remind me again what the Republicans did about immigration during the 6 years under Bush when they controlled the house and the senate..."

    They did not give amnesty, and flood our labor market. Clinton on the other hand gave out 6 amnesties.

    •Immigration and Nationality Act, Section 245(i) Amnesty, 1994: A temporary rolling amnesty for 578,000 illegal aliens
    •Section 245(i) Extension Amnesty, 1997: An extension of the rolling amnesty created in 1994
    •Nicaraguan Adjustment and Central American Relief Act (NACARA) Amnesty, 1997: An amnesty for close to one million illegal aliens from Central America
    •Haitian Refugee Immigration Fairness Act Amnesty (HRIFA), 1998: An amnesty for 125,000 illegal aliens from Haiti
    •Late Amnesty, 2000: An amnesty for some illegal aliens who claim they should have been amnestied under the 1986 IRCA amnesty, an estimated 400,000 illegal aliens
    •LIFE ACT Amnesty, 2000: A reinstatement of the rolling Section 245(i) amnesty, anestimated 900,000 illegal alien

    All used the same arguments we hear now.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Aug. 14, 2013 8:33 p.m.

    "Sadly, there are many Republican senators who even went along with empty promises from the democrats."

    Remind me again what the Republicans did about immigration during the 6 years under Bush when they controlled the house and the senate...

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 6:00 p.m.

    Almost all of the provisions that are in the "new" Senate bill are things the President can (and should) have been doing regarding enforcement all along.

    Did Obama ever ask Congress for additional funds to increase border security during his term(s) in office? Why not? Building/expanding the border fence would have been a great public works project to stimulate the economy.

    The obvious answer is that this administration doesn't WANT enforcement. They only want 30 million "new" voters that they can promise free things to in order to secure their vote.

    Sadly, there are many Republican senators who even went along with empty promises from the democrats.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 4:20 p.m.

    I see a real lack of compassion for America's under employed 24 million people, and the victims of id theft, social security fraud, depressed wages and high unemployment.

    If it wasn't for cheap labor, we would be enforcing these laws and not having discussions.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Aug. 14, 2013 3:39 p.m.

    "and then they can support the party that didn't try to deport mom and dad, grandma and grandpa, brother and sister."

    That gives the GOP a 50/50 shot.

    Remember when the GOP controlled the Pres, House and Senate for 6 years?
    What did they do about illegal immigration?

    I find it hilarious that some think the GOP is so tough on immigration. What a joke.

  • louie Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 3:11 p.m.

    In my opinion the character of most Utahns is one of understanding and compassion. Unfortunately our congressional delegation does not share those feelings.

  • Dragline Oream, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 2:52 p.m.

    Let's just argue and posture over immigration reform and then do nothing for the next 20 years. Let's have Hatch tell us he wants to tax the illegal immigrants before he will support a law (and not the employer) while Jason Chaffetz tries to get it done piecemeal to no avail, and the rest of us just sit on our hands as this subculture grows.

    After 20 years, the children of the illegal immigrants will be U.S. citizens and voters, and then they can support the party that didn't try to deport mom and dad, grandma and grandpa, brother and sister. It will be quite a reckoning.

    In the meantime we can continue to talk about deportation and undoing the 14th amendment, accuse this subclass of taking our construction and agricultural jobs, let them continue to build our country with no benefits, and show us how to work hard, raise families, and build communities.

    By then, game over for the GOP.

  • Sal Provo, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 1:21 p.m.

    Why should Republicans pass any immigration bill knowing the Obama administration will not enforce it? It isn't enforcing Obamacare, the law of the land. You can't trust the Obama administration.

  • 1conservative WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 12:54 p.m.

    The business lobby, through their various surrogates, are putting everything they have into getting ANYTHING passed in the House of Representatives. What that means (as Neandeathal above referred to)is that the House bill then goes to a conference with the Senate bill to be "reconciled".

    At which time the SENATE will get everything they want. They are the "dominant" legislative body.

    The business lobbyists are not just "blogging" here. They are contacting the various Congressmen directly to apply pressure on behalf of employers of illegal immigrants.

    If the general taxpayer (you)don't contact your Congressman directly to let him know your opposition, or general feelings towards amnesty, (yes, thats what it is, no matter what they call it)you can bet something from the House WILL be passed.

    We will all be paying for that bad decision for years. 40-50 million "new" refugees all here demanding welfare, food stamps, free education, and last, but certainly not least, JOBS!!

    Explain to me please, how we're going to pay for that?

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 11:22 a.m.

    Re: "Now is the time for real reform . . . ."

    But what needs to be "RE-Formed"?

    Should we always assume that it's the US Law that needs to be Reformed?

    Maybe the solution isn't to change our laws to be more lenient.

    Maybe "reform" would be to start enforcing the laws we already have, and new ones we add. If we don't enforce the laws we already have... what makes people think we will enforce THIS new law??

    Maybe instead of Feds suing States that propose checking immigration status when someone is arrested... we should reform THAT policy and encourage law enforcement to help identify people they have had trouble with that are in the country illegally??

    Maybe it's not always our immigration law that needs to be reformed. Maybe it's the attitude of the people who come across the border illegally that needs to be "reformed".

    Maybe we should educate them that it's not OK to do that (instead of saying it's not OK but mostly looking the other way when we know it has happened).

    What needs to be "Re-Formed"? Our law? Or our commitment to enforcing it?

  • Neanderthal Pheonix, AZ
    Aug. 14, 2013 10:59 a.m.

    "What a sad day indeed when with all our accumulated wealth and blessings we come to the conclusion we have nothing left over to share with our neighbor."

    America sends $billions to dozens of countries around the world, including (I'm sure) Mexico.

    "Seems like charity has failed."

    Seems like America is the most generous country in the history of the world.

    @2 bits:
    "I think we should hear both sides, and incorporate the best elements of both sides..."

    Here's how it now works... if the House passes its own bill then the House and Senate bills go to conference committee composed equally of House and Senate members to work out differences.

    The problem with that procedure is the Senate bill usually wins out.

    What should happen is for the Conference Committee to be composed of House and Senate members in the same ratio as members in each branch, i.e., for every Senator on the committee there should be four or five House members. And the political party representation should also be in the ratio as there are in the House and Senate. Good idea, me.

  • Strider303 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 10:27 a.m.

    If all the people who support some kind of amnesty or approval of having illegal immigrants remain would just sponsor the individual or family for legitimate citizenship we would be a long way down the road to a solution.

    In my not so humble opinion, liberals and compromise supporters are compassionate with other people's money but shy away from stepping up to sponsor a person or family. In reality, most are economic refugees and should be treated as such. We are in danger of being balkenized by illegals who don't care about America but are just camping north, east or west of their former border and not integrating into the American culture.

    They are a cheap pool of unskilled or semi-skilled labor who are victimized by employers who seek cheap non complaining laborers. Our society has aided and abetted this problem as the young people denigrate entry level work as beneath them. Ever heard the phrase "let a (fill in the blank with an illegal immigrant's nationality) do it?" I have, and I have done those jobs and was glad to have work.

    We have trouble right here in River City folks.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Aug. 14, 2013 10:11 a.m.

    Yes, the cost of deporting would be huge.

    I'm trying to figure out the plan on the right. Best I can ascertain is this.

    Once determined to be illegal, we clear occupants of the household and put them in a cell.
    We collect all their assets, including cars, houses, property, belongings, businesses, bank accounts, stock, bonds and every other asset that was obtained while illegally in the USA.

    We auction everything in order to fund the deportation and secure the border.

    Is this it?

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 9:35 a.m.

    Re: "Now is the time for real reform . . . ."

    You said a mouthful!

    And first on the list of things needing reform is enforcement of border-security laws already on the books. The open-borders crowd has never convinced more than a few Democrat political hacks that disrespect for, and destruction of, the Rule of Law is a good idea.

    Since no significant percentage of Americans believes we need to hold open that gaping hole on our southern border, you'd think Democrats would be amenable to some, ANY, sort of workable compromise that at least has a chance to wrest control back from the coyotes and drug dealers. But nooooooo!

    No conservative is opposed to immigration. All real Americans favor planned, controlled, legal immigration. But we also demand realistic border security.

    But, since liberals believe open borders favor their political odds, they refuse to budge on the issue, as the Senate bill attests.

    Real reform can only come about when liberals and Democrat hacks begin to think more of national security than their political agenda.

  • HaHaHaHa Othello, WA
    Aug. 14, 2013 9:20 a.m.

    RE 2 bits

    You are exactly right! Love this - "Don't just pass something just to pass something." We don't need another 2000 page piece of legislation, that is full of holes and double speak. We don't need half baked ideas and legislation that nobody really understands, or knows how it will really be enacted and enforced. Think of Obamacare!

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 9:16 a.m.

    Excellent letter. Couldn't agree more.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 8:38 a.m.

    First you have to define what "the right way" means. That's the problem. Everybody doesn't agree on what "the right way" is yet.

    The debate about "the right way" to reform immigration... is a good debate to have. I think we should hear both sides, and incorporate the best elements of both sides, and you should get enough votes to pass it. Problem is... both sides just want to cram their version of "the right way" through without any serious discussion or compromise (the ObamaCare playbook).

    Democrats are fixed on their belief that they have the votes in the Senate to pass anything they want... so they're not going to compromise. Republicans have enough votes to pass whatever they want in the House, so they won't negotiate or compromise. So we get nowhere.

    We need BOTH parties to compromise and give the other party what they want... and then we could move on.

    But that's not very likely to happen. And it's not just one party's inability to compromise.

    Don't just pass something just to pass something. Once America likes enough of the bill to enthusiastically support it... THEN its ready.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 8:37 a.m.

    Businessmen: “Immigration is working just fine now, don’t mess with it”

  • LiberalEastCoastMember Parkesburg, PA
    Aug. 14, 2013 8:18 a.m.

    "Many of the people who come here don't want citizenship, just jobs. We don't have any to spare."

    What a sad day indeed when with all our accumulated wealth and blessings we come to the conclusion we have nothing left over to share with our neighbor.

    Seems like charity has failed.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 7:50 a.m.

    According to a government study done in 2007 by the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement agency put the cost of deportation at 94 billion. This is a one time cost, that does not include self deportation. The Federation for American Immigration Reform puts the cost of illegal immigration at $113 billion per year. When you add in the boost to our economy from putting millions of Americans back to work in non agriculture jobs, we can't afford not to.

    "The union that represents the people who would have to decide who gets legalized under any new immigration law said in a letter July 31, that the Obama administration is not ready to handle the influx of applications.

    And Kenneth Palinkas, the president of the Citizenship and Immigration Services Council, which represents the 12,000 immigration officers and staff who work at USCIS, warned House Republicans that even flirting with a limited legalization such as just granting citizenship rights to so-called Dream Act immigrants could lead to problems."

    A person here for 30 years would have qualified for the 1986 amnesty. Many of the people who come here don't want citizenship, just jobs. We don't have any to spare.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Aug. 14, 2013 5:29 a.m.

    "Now is the time for real reform on a bipartisan basis."

    Don't hold your breath.

    We have a minority in our Government who believes that 11+ MILLION people should be rounded up and shipped across the border.

    Doesn't matter if they have been here for 30+ years and own houses, cars and businesses. They say "Illegal is Illegal".
    (I would love to hear the logistics of how this would be accomplished)

    And anything short of exactly what this minority wants, will not pass.
    This is never how our government was intended to run.

  • prelax Murray, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 3:54 a.m.

    The Senate bill is toxic, it's enforcement part has loopholes and waivers to prevent enforcement at the border, e-verify, and the interior of the country. We would end up with 46 million people in twenty years, and no laws to stop illegal immigration and amnesty from happening again.

    According to the Congressional budget office it would add 197 billion to our economy if paid for out of social security. If paid out of the general fund, it's a 14.7 billion dollar loss, with high unemployment and depressed wages for a decade or more.

    It doubles green cards from one million to 1.8 million, double work visas from 3.2 million to 6.4 million. Most work visas are good for 5-6 years with extensions, so times that by six.

    With reduced wages and higher unemployment, we can't afford amnesty. We should not be rewarding criminal behavior. The Senate bill changes America forever. If the House passes an immigration bill, both go to committee, and we end up with a bill that mostly copies the Senate. Pray that the House does not pass ANY immigration bills.