The Democratic Party

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  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Aug. 13, 2013 5:14 p.m.

    Sahuarita, az

    "Thou shalt not . . . kill, nor do anything like unto it"; (D&C 59:6).

    Reading the letter of the law,
    This applies to war, Death Penalties, and eating meat.

    BTW - I'm a Veteran, and killing for Oil is why I got out.

    My Mother and my wife have both been in situations that YOU have no say so -- per the LDS Church policy.

    FYI - The Church is politically neutral on the matter.

    "The Church has not favored or opposed legislative proposals or public demonstrations concerning abortion."

  • KVC Sahuarita, az
    Aug. 13, 2013 5:10 p.m.

    Do you agree with this statement if you don't favor beating your spouse, don't do it"? Should we not judge those who believe it is okay, which happens to be the case in many societies around the world? Should we not judge those who believe a woman should be prosecuted for sex outside of Marriage if she is raped?

    Do you believe that your beliefs are superior than others and thusly it is okay for you to judge actions you believe are wrong? Or do you believe we must be accepting and non-judgmental toward any actions, regardless of how abhorrent we may find them? Is judging pedophiles okay? Is judging parents who beat their children okay? If judging these types of things is okay, but judging abortion is not, tell me why.

    It is perfectly acceptable, and commendable to oppose actions we find abhorrent. We oppose slavery and have judged slave owners and traders as bad people. Many parents in poor countries send their very young children to work. Should we stop trying to ban child labor? If not, why? Isn't that judgmental?

    Open Minded Mormon:
    LDS Church supported the Federal Marriage Amendment.

  • KVC Sahuarita, az
    Aug. 13, 2013 4:34 p.m.

    Open minded Mormon
    Dont deceive people. Here is the entirety from the Church Website:

    "In today's society, abortion has become a common practice, defended by deceptive arguments. Latter-day prophets have denounced abortion, referring to the Lord's declaration, “Thou shalt not . . . kill, nor do anything like unto it” (D&C 59:6). Their counsel on the matter is clear: Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints must not submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for an abortion. Church members who encourage an abortion in any way may be subject to Church discipline.

    Church leaders have said that some exceptional circumstances may justify an abortion, such as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. But even these circumstances do not automatically justify an abortion. Those who face such circumstances should consider abortion only after consulting with their local Church leaders and receiving a confirmation through earnest prayer."

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 13, 2013 4:27 p.m.

    ugottabkidn said, "there is nothing you can do to end abortions". That may be true, but that doesn't mean you have to support them.

    It's OK to not support abortions. Can we agree on that? I mean I don't have to be pro-abortion to be a worthwhile human being do I?

    Now... is it OK to not worry about other people aborting babies (as long as YOU don't do it)? I don't know. I get the feeling IF there is a creator, and he created the lives you are snuffing... he will care. He would REALLY care if I am the one aborting the baby. But he would also care if was voting to support the practice as well.

    So it's OK for people to have differing opinions on this one. I don't have to support abortion. And you don't have to be against it. And we can both still be good people. OK? So I'm not necessarily a bad person if I don't support the right to abortion at any time for any reason. Is that agreed? So I can still vote Republican. And you can vote Democrat.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Aug. 13, 2013 4:05 p.m.

    Salt Lake City, UT

    You have my sincere and deepest sympathy.

    My Mother and my Wife have both had situations were THEY needed to make that sort of decision.

    I thank our Heavenly Father [and Mother] daily that politicians, Government, and busybodies with a political axes to grind CAN'T take away a woman's agency and interfere with such personal and private matters.

    Also an Independent that often votes Democratic

  • Kimber Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 13, 2013 10:54 a.m.

    I liked the comment "if you don't favor abortion, then don't get one". This is common sense! I don't like abortion either, but unfortunately, my body naturally had a number of miscarriages. This was not my choice, so I have a soft spot for those that either through a sad situation, or a natural situation such as mine, have these things happen. And I very much like the advice "Judge not, that ye be not judged".
    An Independent that often votes Democratic

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Aug. 13, 2013 9:55 a.m.

    Sahuarita, az

    Open minded Mormon:

    Why I don't vote Democrat:
    Dems support abortion rights, including late term. Completely against LDS beliefs.


    I exhort you to brush up on your beliefs then:

    LDS Policy --
    "...circumstances may justify an abortion, such as...incest or rape,
    life or health of the mother...,
    or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth."

    I see nothing in there about banning abortions, "late term" or not.
    The fact is, abortion is a medical procedure developed and used for saving the life of the woman, viability of the fetus, and in still births.

    You should leave the decision to the woman, her doctor, her family and her clergy.
    Just as the LDS policy also states.

    I support the LDS Church's policy regarding abortion - 100% and precisely to the point.

  • KVC Sahuarita, az
    Aug. 12, 2013 11:13 p.m.

    Open minded Mormon:

    Why I don't vote Democrat:
    Dems support abortion rights, including late term. Completely against LDS beliefs. As for the if you don't like abortions, don't have one. Is it okay to say if you don't like beating your wife don't do it, but leave anyone alone who wants to?

    Dems want to spend like crazy and think we can just tax more and more money out of people. They believe Greece and Detroit are good models for how we should spend and support destructive unions.

    Obamacare- Truly a step to socialized medicine and eventual rationing as they do in every other country with single payer. And it does nothing to address malpractice, which at least every other country has addressed. That is the true cause of high medical expenditures. Also, I am a Family doctor who really does not make much, but left med school with more debt than my salary, but Obama thinks I am overpaid. I live in an average neighborhood and cannot afford an RV,boat, ATVs, snowmobiles or any other toys my neighbors all have. My minivan has 135,000 miles. I am we'll underpaid.

    Nancy Pelosi!!

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 4:46 p.m.

    There You Go Again,
    Ronald Reagan is NOT the epitome of all things Republican. He's a good man, and he had some good ideas, but not everything he did was stereotype "Republican".

    For instance... he passed Comprehensive Immigration Reform (in the form of blanket amnesty). NOT something Republicans support. It was throwing a bone to Democrats (something Obama can't comprehend)

    He raised taxes (not classic "Republican").

    Big deficits (something Republicans pretend they don't like).

    He also didn't oppose abortion (as you pointed out).

    Regan was fairly independent. He was a Republican (I'll give you that). But the epitome of "Republican"... hardly.

    Regan was only the "ultimate Republican" to those who get their views only from stereotypes, rhetoric, and talking points. In reality he clashed with many Republicans on many things, and got along well with liberal Democrats like Tip Oneal and Ted Kennedy and Mr Gorbachev. He compromised with Democrats often (as Clinton and other successful Presidents have done). Something Obama can't stomach at all.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Aug. 12, 2013 4:37 p.m.

    Others: Why I'm not a Democrat - abortion.

    Me: Why I'm not a Republican -
    Offensive and un-funded wars in the Middle against NON-aggressive oil rich countries,
    crony Capitalism and using taxpayers dollars to bailout WallStreet and Banks,
    denying healthcare based on profits,
    denying civil rights to civil unions or domestic partnerships,
    cutting and gutting Education,
    trampling, shunning, ignoring the needs of the poor, sick and the elderly,
    Pro-Death Penalty,
    ect., ect. ect.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 4:08 p.m.

    More moderate republicans will move to the Democratic Party to escape the tea party.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 3:10 p.m.

    A DN reader reports that she cannot vote for a Democrat because Democrats are for abortion...

    When REPUBLICAN Ronald Reagan was the GOV. of California, he signed into law an abortion bill that led to the murder of over 2,000,000 babies.

    Republicans cannot un-ring that bell.

    Pro-abortion Republican Ronald Reagan is the epitome of all things Republican.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 12:50 p.m.

    For the abortion fan-boys... just because abortion is important to a voter, or because it's the first thing they bring up to illustrate an example of an irreconcilable difference they have with Democrats, doesn't automatically mean it's the ONLY thing they vote on.

    I don't think the letter was intended to be a treatise on every difference the writter had with Democrats. They just gave one classic example.

    IF Democrats really wanted to win in Utah (which I suspect is not as high a priority as sticking with the national party platform).... they would try to match the Republican position on all the little things, and then exceed Republicans in appealing to Utahns on a few major things (like Matheson does). That's how Republicans do it. Match what Democrats are saying on most everything AND I don't promote abortion. So they are about equal on everything else and one doesn't support abortion and higher taxes... so which one will probably get the vote in Utah? Probably the Republican.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 12:24 p.m.

    I don't know if abortion is the only issue Utahns have with Democrats. There are many issues. Spending and taxing is one of them.

    I keep saying that Utah_Democrats need to take their own national party's talking points to heart. Democrats keep telling Republicans they need to to campaign FOR something (not just AGAINST Obama). The DNC learned this during the Bush years. Even though he was weak... all they ran was the anti-Bush campaign. They never told America what they were campaigning FOR, just that they were against ANYTHING Bush wanted to do. They lost.

    Same story in Utah. Democrats are the minority (like Republicans are nationally). So Utah Democrats need to take their own advice.... Quit campaigning AGAINST Republicans, and campaign FOR something the people want really really bad... and you will win.

    I don't think that thing people really really want (in Utah) is the right to abort their baby right up till the last months of pregnancy. That plays well with your base nationally... but you will have to find something else to differentiate yourself in Utah. Something Utahns REALY want... that Republicans can't offer.

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 10:20 a.m.

    To the author, there is nothing you can do to end abortions. They will happen whether or not you ban them. Ban sex. Your record on the right is just as futile. Since you prefer the backroom scenarios and will not address the issues that make them a preferred option then hold on to your chair because they will continue and the lives of mothers will be lost with the fetus. Desperate situations create desperate solutions. The only reason for Roe v Wade was for healthcare access, not just abortion. When you want to ban contraceptives and adoption averages 40k per then I think it's time for you to broaden your perspective.

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    Aug. 12, 2013 8:50 a.m.

    Utah does not vote for the Democrats because of some nebulous position on Abortion. Really? What about a homogeneous dogmatic religious culture, a significant lack of media voices expressing a more progressive political positions? How about a long standing connection to radical conservative political bodies like the John Birch Society?. How about some religious leaders taking conservative positions from the pulpit and discussing them as being divinely inspired? And given the race of the present occupant of the White House, is there any latent racism at work? After, all Mia Love did lose in a heavily republican gerrymandered district to a gasp! a sort of Democrat.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 8:36 a.m.

    The simple solution would be not to have an abortion, if you're opposed to abortion.
    I am opposed to jumping off high cliffs, so I don't do it.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Aug. 12, 2013 7:47 a.m.

    The fact is Republicans have been using abortion as political red herring for 40 years to get votes.

    They are the LAST group to actually want it reversed,
    because it's their political bread and butter at the voting booths.

    They can bomb any coutry,
    spend any dollar figure,
    and award any corporation grants, contracts, or bailouts,
    without any negative repercussion so long as they SAY they against abortion.

    Saying you are against something,
    and doing something about are 2 completely differnt things.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 1:23 a.m.

    Years ago when I was working for OSHA, the boss said the Democratic Party was better off when it was active securing the working man his rights, before abortion rights and so on. He was on to something. The writer is right. But if the Democratic Party were more active in supporting working class people, supporting the right of unions to organize, and less in bed with Wall Street banks (like the Republicans), many would overlook issues like abortion and so on. Or take another example, if the Democrats had come out slugging for single payer health care instead of the mishmash Obamacare and its give away to insurance companies, many more Utahns would support the Utah Democratic Party. The argument for "balance" is utterly lame.

  • HaHaHaHa Othello, WA
    Aug. 11, 2013 10:38 p.m.

    As always, Mountanman is right on. How lame is the excuse, that the Democrats at least did something, even if it was not right thing? In this day and age, and the POOR ability of this giant bureaucracy filled government to correct itself, and end the entrenched crud that gets put in place as legislation, how dumb do you get in supporting that notion?

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 10:29 p.m.

    It's possible to not favor abortion but to find even more important the economic philosophy of the parties. A vote for Republican economics is a vote for economic disaster. The verdict is in, and Republicans have been proven wrong on just about every stance they've taken in the last ten years. They keep trying to restate the same bad arguments, but rewording nonsense doesn't make it reasonable.

  • Kimber Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 8:18 p.m.

    Both sets of my grandparents were respectable, hard working people and they were Democrats! Yes, it's possible to be a great person and be a Democrat. I also find myself leaning towards this party since they have had answers for the country in various areas and I agree with most of their agenda. Republicans, however, seem to choose a few "hot button" topics to judge them by. Abortion is one of those. No, abortion isn't the answer to pregnancy issues, but PREVENTING unwanted pregnancy is. Do Republicans talk much about how much abortion issues have gone down now awareness is increased (which, by the way, mostly Democrats put into place). There are now fewer abortions than ever and many more adoptions. On healthcare issues, the Democratic party created something (not perfect) but a good start to solving our healthcare crisis while Republicans want to dismantle it. Republicans truly seem to be the party of NO, while Democrats tend to look for solutions to our problems.
    An Independent (but I tend to vote Democratic)

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Aug. 11, 2013 7:14 p.m.

    @ Joe Blow. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Yes, Republican have tried to get Roe v Wade overturned, have tried to eliminate taxpayer funded abortions (planned parenthood defunded) and have tried to pass laws limiting late term abortions but the Democrats have blocked all of those efforts screaming about "women's rights" totally ignoring the rights of the unborn to life.
    The Republicans have fought to defend the 2nd amendment but Democrats keep hyperventilating and howling in protest even though gun laws do not prevent crime, even in Chicago!
    Yes, the GOP, in control of both houses at the time, passed the welfare reform act and Democrat Bill Clinton reluctantly signed it but Obama wiped away the law (illegally) and food stamp recipients have more than doubled since. One has to wonder if millions of those food stamp, housing subsidy or Medicaid recipients didn't win the election for Obama?
    How can anyone who values any of the above vote for Democrats?

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Aug. 11, 2013 6:50 p.m.

    Your worst enemy list may have some merit.

    But a better question that you should ask yourself is NOT if the Dems are worse than the GOP.

    But if the GOP has or will do anything in those areas?

    Has the GOP done anything to end abortion?
    Has the GOP done anything to expand gun rights?
    Are GOP controlled states looking to curb entitlements?

    I would think you would be in the camp of "the GOP stinks in what is important to me, but they are better than the Dems".

    Instead, you give them a pass as being just a bit better. Which is all they have to be to get you solidly in their camp.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Aug. 11, 2013 4:09 p.m.

    @ Shaun and Joe Blow. Actually, the worst enemy the unborn have is the Democratic party, not the Republicans. The worst enemy traditional sanctity of marriage is the Democratic party, not the Republicans. The worst enemy the 2nd amendment is the Democratic party, not the Republicans. The worst enemy self reliance and human dignity (the opposite of government dependence) is the Democratic party, not the Republicans. Detroit is the best and most recent example of the fruits of the Democratic party in America! Hard to deny reality all the time, isn't it?

  • Steve Cottrell Centerville, UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 3:33 p.m.

    In the article the author opposes the Utah Democratic Party by telling what he/she considers wrong with the national Democratic Party in the instance of abortion.

    I think what is wrong with the Utah Republican party is the performance of the party here in Utah. Specific examples include a long list of scandals among Utah Republican leadership and their abysmal treatment of public education.

    There is no excuse for defending the absolute power of the one-party system in Utah, and that would be true regardless of the party. Let's dump the one party state house, senate, and statewide officers that we have as soon as possible--the next election.

  • SEY Sandy, UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 11:23 a.m.

    This also explains why I can't support either major party. They each favor violence as a remedy: one before birth, the other after birth.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Aug. 11, 2013 10:15 a.m.

    "Everything that I esteem to matter the most, everything I hold as the most important, sacrosanct principles in my life and my highest priorities in my life are in direct conflict with the Democrat party's agendas."

    Overwhelming odds are that they are also in direct conflict with what the Republican party does also.

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 10:14 a.m.

    @Mountainman. Then you surely can not be a republican because they have no values as well.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 9:29 a.m.

    As if the only issue for voters is abortion.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 9:20 a.m.

    George W Bush was president for 8 years. Republicans controlled both houses of congress for 6 of those 8 years. During the entire period the Supreme Court was composed of 7 Republican appointees and 2 Democratic appointees. So what was the result of all that Republican control regarding abortion policy? Pretty much nothing. Basing your votes on abortion is simply not going to have the outcome that you think it will.

    Also, if you support a ban on abortions after 20 weeks, which I do, the poll says you would be in a majority in the Democratic party.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Aug. 11, 2013 8:02 a.m.

    Very good letter! Thank you for writing it! I can not support today's Democratic party because I have value conflicts with them. Everything that I esteem to matter the most, everything I hold as the most important, sacrosanct principles in my life and my highest priorities in my life are in direct conflict with the Democrat party's agendas. To compromise my principles with them would be to deny everything I hold sacred. What kind of person compromises these things?

  • MaxPower Eagle Mountain, UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 7:13 a.m.

    It's nice to know Mr. Gunn is a single issue voter.

    Enough said.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 12:39 a.m.

    Terry, if you don't want an abortion, don't get one. If you don't want to be a member of the democratic party, then....oh, never mind. That ship sailed a long time ago.