Support the Dream Act

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  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Aug. 12, 2013 7:33 a.m.

    To "The Hammer" if it isn't the illegal immigrant parents teaching the children they brought across the border that they deserve everything that legal children have, who is?

    Who has taught these kids that when they grow up that they should get everything that a legal citizen is entitled to?

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Aug. 10, 2013 11:46 a.m.

    There was a lot of people in the military I met who was in to get citizenship. They where earning respect.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 10, 2013 11:14 a.m.

    "Hammer" I live all around illegal trespassers. I live in a sanctuary city. Sometimes the illegal next door and I share rides together.

    I don't have ANYTHING at all against illegal law-breakers personally. Mostly I see that if they are allowed to blatantly and continually ignore laws, chaos and tyranny will result. I learned,I think in 4th grade,that we have an obligation to try to obey the laws, even the ones we don't like.

    Its NOT my job to arrest/deport lawbreakers. We, together, all of us legal citizens, have put that trust in an arm of our government. They let us down and now want us to just ignore that they've let us down. They say we should "go along to get along" and ignore the fact that they've let in 30 million or so lawbreakers.

    Where I live I've occassionally called the police to report drug dealing, armed robbery, etc. The police seem at least somewhat interested in those things, but NOT AT ALL interested in illegal trespassers.

    Why is that?
    Illegal trespassing and fraudulently obtaining benefits is NOT a victimless crime!

  • prelax Murray, UT
    Aug. 9, 2013 11:26 p.m.

    @the Hammer

    The program that is available now, takes 2-6 months, not years. They are moved to the front of the line for their honesty. If the program doesn't fit their needs, then they should stay home. It is not justification for breaking the laws like their parents.

    There are a lot of nice people that break the law. They are still subject to our laws and penalties. In order to work, they commit multiple felonies that would put Americans in jail for years. The damage done to the American worker is well documented, with depressed wages, and lost jobs. Talk to a victim of identity theft and see how it can cost thousands of dollars and years to clear up. Talk to America's Black youth that have double the unemployment, and the Black Leadership Congress that is fighting for the Senate to kill their bill. It will make life even worse for young Black men. We would not be having this discussion if it did not supply surplus labor to business. As you pointed out, it's not about school, it's about jobs and sponsoring family. We are being lied to again.

  • The Hammer lehi, utah
    Aug. 9, 2013 5:14 p.m.

    @Anti-liar, redshirt
    Your example and comments lacks further understanding about who illegal aliens are. Have you met them? I meet them every day. I used to say the same things you and Ann Coulter did. But after meeting them I have found that most of them are just simple people, like you and me, who are good people. They left their country to find a better opportunity. Please place yourself in their shoes for a minute. These are fathers and mothers, young men and young women who for the MOST part are seeking to support themselves or families through honest work. Most of them don’t teach their children they are entitled. Please stop taking La Raza as the authority for how they think or feel. Don’t you hate it when the national media makes the tea party look extreme and crazy and doesn't validate the concerns they have.
    La raza is similar to the tea party please understand what they are concerned about otherwise you are doing what the mainstream media does to tea partiers.

  • VickieB SLC, UT
    Aug. 9, 2013 4:24 p.m.

    The Hammer

    I thought the dream act was for education, now you are telling me that it's for the jobs? Not using the program makes the adults illegal. And it's due to their actions, not their parents.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 9, 2013 2:29 p.m.

    Actually, U.S. residency and education, among other things, IS being stolen when parents illegally enter the country and traffic their children into the country.

    Those pushing the emotionally manipulative sophistry that we must not "punish" children for the sins of their parents really are telling a lie. One, requiring that they return with their parents to their lawful countries of residence is not punishment. Punishment consists of fines, confiscation of property, and prison time. No one has ever suggested that a minor child should be imprisoned for the crimes of his parents. So that's lie number one.

    Lie number two is the notion that if a bank robber robs a bank and then passes the loot to his child, that child should be allowed to keep the loot and if we do not allow him to do so, we somehow are being "heartless," or "unfair." This lie is the essential premise behind the notion that Dreamer children should be allowed to keep the U.S. residency and education, etc. their parents STOLE for them.

    These parents also are using their children as pawns as an avenue for residency for themselves, by way of retroactive chain migration and sponsorship.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 9, 2013 1:33 p.m.

    Thanks. I should have searched on "Stole" instead. Now I can see what you're talking about.

    Yah, that's a little over-the-top. They didn't really steal anything.

    IMO the parents should be punished for any laws they broke. Crossing the border illegally is one offense. I don't know what the punishment should be. But if the parents or children used a stolen or forged SS#s to get work or register for school, food stamps, health insurance, etc... there should be a penalty for that too. I would go to jail if I stole somebody's identity (SS#). So I would expect even a Dreamer would go to jail for that (like I would).

    The children don't need to be punished. Missing their parents is punishment enough. But the parents shouldn't be allowed to break the law and not be punished because punishing them may also punish the children. Any parent that's been sent to jail knows that their children suffer for their bad decisions.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 9, 2013 1:20 p.m.

    @The Hammer

    "Most were invited here by our farmers and businesses."

    That is balderdash. It is impossible for farmers and businesses to "invite" foreigners to enter this country illegally. They have no legal standing, no authority, no prerogative to do so. They can ENCOURAGE them to come here illegally. They can form partnerships-in-crime with them, by hiring them illegally. But they cannot "invite" them here.

    And the illegal aliens themselves know perfectly well that what they are doing is illegal.

    And they teach their children that they are "entitled" and that coming here illegally is the right way to U.S. residency and an American education.

    Granting them amnesty would only confirm that the morally reprehensible lesson their parents taught them was valid. How "caring!" How "compassionate!"

    How hypocritical!

    If those pushing for amnesty really cared about "the children," they would encourage them to return home -- with the illegal-alien parents who brought them here. They would teach them that the manipulative, Dreamer SCAM of illegally trafficking children into this country and then falsely GUILTING Americans into setting aside the rule of law, won't fly in America.

    Then maybe these children would have a chance, morally speaking.

  • The Hammer lehi, utah
    Aug. 9, 2013 12:35 p.m.

    Please refer to lost in DCs comments-

    "I could support it if the requirement was to serve in the military, where they are GIVING to the country their parents stole from, but NOT taxpayer funded college, where they are still TAKING from the country their parents stole from."

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Aug. 9, 2013 12:23 p.m.

    What about the dreamers that are here legally? Why should my child, who was born here legally have to compete for college placement and scholarships with people that are here illegally?

    What many people forget is that the parents of the illegal immigrants are either intentionally abusing the system or else are very selfish when they come here. Either way it doesn't make the US a better place. Abusing the system because they think that the US government will turn a blind eye to their children or else selfish because they are more concerned about making money for themselves than securing a good future for their children.

    Lets look at this using an example that more people can relate with.

    Imagine your teach your kids that it is ok to litter and just throw their garbage on the ground. When your kids are are older, they get ticketed for littering and thowing garbage where it doesn't belong. Should society just accept that and say that it is ok because the parents of the children taught them that it was ok?

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 9, 2013 12:18 p.m.

    Help us out. Who said "Steal"?

    I did a search on the article and didn't find the word, and searched the comments and only found it in your comment (3 times). Did somebody really say that... or was that just a strawman?

    Wish I knew who you were addressing with that comment and the context of the comment you were referring too.

    I think the rhetoric is high enough without pretending people said things that weren't even said.

    And those who think children should never suffer for bad decisions their parents made (like bringing them to the USA illegally)... Don't the innocent children of any father who's sent to prison for making bad decisions suffer for his bad decision?

    I'm just saying... life isn't always 100% fair. Not even for Dreamers.
    Parents need to think about the impact of their actions (on their kids).

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    Aug. 9, 2013 11:38 a.m.

    One man's dream is another man's nightmare.

  • The Hammer lehi, utah
    Aug. 9, 2013 11:36 a.m.

    I’m confused about who you are talking about when you say steal? What did their parents steal? Most were invited here by our farmers and businesses. Most of them were running away from a corrupt gang ridden government and a bad economy with no hope for their family’s future. Most of them have strong work histories while they were here.
    Adding biases to the debate about what needs to happen won’t fix the problem. Most of them did not steal anything. Most of them are good people who came here seeking opportunity and a better environment and hope for the future. Small minorities of them cause problems, and it has grown some because of the illegitimacy rate among young mothers. But that could be argued was caused because we continue to punish dream act kids and because we are failing to find some status that is enforceable but humane for illegal aliens.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 9, 2013 11:09 a.m.

    "Dreamers"... so that's what we call them now. That's OK. As long as we all know the politically correct terminology to use.

    I wonder it the CBO estimated the number of votes Democrats would get from making all the "Dreamers" citizens?

    I wonder how many Dreamers will be paying net income taxes (and not just join the percentage of Americans that is quickly becoming the majority, who get more in refunds than they pay in income taxes)?

    One political science theory I've heard is... once the majority of Americans pay no Income Taxes (or get more in refunds than they payed)... Democrats can pass as many tax increases on the remaining tax payers as they want... because they can assure the majority of the voters that THEY will not be affected by the proposed tax hike. The theory being... if you pay no taxes... what motivation do you have to reject a tax hike on somebody else?

    Won't that be nice.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Aug. 9, 2013 10:48 a.m.

    I could support it if the requirement was to serve in the military, where they are GIVING to the country their parents stole from, but NOT taxpayer funded college, where they are still TAKING from the country their parents stole from.

  • The Hammer lehi, utah
    Aug. 9, 2013 10:17 a.m.


    F-1 and J-1 visas are very restrictive and are mainly for specific programs which universities need filled. Students can only work if they are in an approved program. Also it doesn’t cover those who want to start their own business or work in a trade program or start working after high school. Also if they are approved for J-1 or f-1 status they cannot get a green card until they go home for 2 years.
    Our current immigration laws do not cover the majority of these dreamers and that is why they don’t use that program now.

  • wrz Pheonix, AZ
    Aug. 9, 2013 9:43 a.m.

    "The Congressional Budget Office has estimated if all 1.7 million were permitted to participate in the U.S. economy, it would result in revenue of more than $2 billion annually, mainly from income..."

    Too funny!

    Illegals were supposed to take the jobs Americans won't do... which means doing menial work such as picking fruit and making motel beds. These workers rarely make enough to pay income taxes and, in fact, usually are eligible for refundable credits such as EITC (Earned Income Tax Credit).

    Furthermore, offering amnesty to some, such as dreamers, and not others is unconstitutional under the 'Equal Protection' clause.

    If we're going to change the law regarding illegal immigration from illegal to legal, we perhaps should think about changing the law to make bank robbing, child molesting, etc., legal as well... so they could return to making wages and paying taxes. Makes just as much sense.

    Oh, and if we legalize the current batch of Dreamers, what we gonna do when the next wave arrives? And the wave after that, ad infinitum. Better to stop the flow now by enforcing our current, very adequate immigration laws... including E-Verify

  • watchman Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 9, 2013 7:43 a.m.

    Commendations to the House of Representatives for standing fast on this issue. Each facet of the illegal immigration issue should be thoroughly discussed and understood before passage, unlike the Senate bill that was pushed through much like the earlier Obamacare bill only later to find the many, many costly and unfair flaws it contained.

  • VickieB SLC, UT
    Aug. 9, 2013 1:05 a.m.

    Punishing them would be banning them from ever receiving citizenship. Rewarding them for criminal activity of their parents is wrong also. There has been a program that lets them return home, and come back on a student visa at 18 (moved to front of the line). It makes them take the responsibility of their own dreams, just like Americans. If they don't follow the program, at 19 they become as illegal as their parents.

    The Dream act is a backdoor amnesty, they would be eligible to sponsor extended families. It would encompass most of the 11 million here illegally.