Citizenship would lead to immigrant integration

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    Aug. 9, 2013 8:26 a.m.

    "those here illegally are doing everything else in their lives to live within the law, to be good, hard working citizens"

    Every day they are here, they break our laws. They are here illegally through border crossing or visa overstays. They are committing multiple felonies every day with id theft, social security fraud, and perjury (i-9 form). This pattern of law breaking should stop them from applying for citizenship under our laws.

    All the sunshine and lolipops won't take away their crimes. They need to be paid for, like anyone else who breaks the laws. If our government prosecuted them on ID theft, they would be gone in a month. Let's stop trying to tell the public that there is no pattern of crime.

  • VickieB SLC, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 10:15 p.m.

    The U.S. government is systematically violating the rights of American workers by importing millions of foreign workers without any correlation to the nation's job needs. This results in job loss and wage depression for American citizens. The government compounds the problem by not securing our borders and not enforcing our existing laws.

    If we give any type of amnesty, and those here illegally receive the same wages as American citizens, it's going to put most of them out of work. They have a job because of cheap labor. Business will slowly revert back to new arrivals here illegally. The Congressional Budget Office said the Senate bill will stop only 25%. That's if the border, everify and local enforcement are enacted. The same laws have been ignored since 1986.

    The House cannot pass any immigration bill, or the country destroying Senate bill will end in committe with the house bill. Then we leave high unemployment, and reduced wages to our children.

    Aug. 8, 2013 10:08 p.m.

    Since 1965, our immigration policies have engendered one of the greatest mass migrations of people in the shortest period of time in human history. The U.S. adds one international migrant (net) every 44 seconds.

    The nation's immigrant population (legal and illegal) reached a record-setting 40 million in 2010. If the foreign-born population were a nation, it would be the 33rd largest in the world, just behind Argentina and ahead of Poland.

    Ninety years ago when the ratio of the foreign born to the native population was about the same as it is today, i.e., one out of 8, the country reached a consensus that immigration had to be reduced. (250,000-300,000 per year)The Immigration Act of 1965 and subsequent legislation raised the levels up to 1.2 million a year, more than the rest of the world combined in terms of legal immigration. Immigration is now primarily from the developing world as opposed to Europe and legal immigrants are predominantly minorities as defined by the U.S. government, which entitles them to special benefits like affirmative action and minority business set asides. This reinforces and incentivizes group identification rather than assimilation.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 9:27 p.m.

    Personally I'm totally FOR immigration and citizenship. But I'm totally against people sneaking across our border. I'm also not for rewarding people for sneaking across our border.

    I'm OK with travel visas and work visas. At least we know who's here, when they came, and when their visa expires, and if they left.

  • Alfred Pheonix, AZ
    Aug. 8, 2013 7:36 p.m.

    @Samuel the Liberalite:
    "Most Mormons are Hispanic, living South of the border [Lamanites], as prophesied."

    Not according to the DNA. Most if not all have Asian DNA. The Lamanites are/were located in the area of the Hill Cumorah in New York.. according the DNA testing.

  • bryant77 Provo, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 5:22 p.m.


    Here are the conclusions of the Congressional Budget Office on the immigration bill:

    Read them and make your decision.

    They highlight over and again the economic benefits of comprehensive reform. If there's something the GOP House doesn't like about the Senate bill, they can change it. They can--and should--write their own version. But they aren't even willing to do that. They're stalled, because they're afraid of (ultra right) Republican constituents who adhere more to empty rhetoric than non-partisan facts...

    But I think we're better than that. We're smart and we're flexible. We understand good policy when we see it. We care about families and our economy.

    Pass comprehensive reform!!

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 4:25 p.m.

    The government report says that all of Americans except the 1% will feel the influx of 33 million people in ten years, rising to 46 million in 20 years. Lower wages, higher unemployment, and a reduced standard of living. The only people who will benefit are the business owners and those here illegally.

    Right now, under current laws, a person cannot come here legally if they commit a felony. Yet those here illegally have committed multiple felonies (id theft, social security fraud, perjury). Add in business who commits a felony each time they hire someone here illegally, and those who encourage them to come, who break the laws also.

    A changed country with more low paying jobs, 29 hour work weeks, years of higher unemployment, a lower standard of living, just so we can give amnesty to millions who have broken our laws for decades. The business community has no respect for our country. They should not be given amnesty either.

  • Miss Piggie Pheonix, AZ
    Aug. 8, 2013 4:24 p.m.

    @Samuel the Liberalite:
    "Most Mormons are Hispanic, living South of the border [Lamanites], as prophesied."

    They're not Lamanites. Their DNA says they're Asian. Probably got here over the Rusasia-Alaska land-bridge.

    Lamanites are/were located in and around the Hill Cumorah.

  • 1conservative WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 4:17 p.m.

    Most of the reason the minimum wage has remained so low for so long is due to the continual influx of illegal immigrants.

    I always thought the democrats were supposed to be in favor of helping working Americans get ahead.

    When did they change?

    How many new immigration laws will we have to write before we find one the illegal aliens like?

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 4:03 p.m.

    Dragline, bryant77

    The Congressional budget office claims that in 10 years they will contribute 197 billion to our economy. The facts show that the only way this is possible, is if the social security trust fund was raided to pay for all of the new programs. If the money was taken from the general fund, it will be a 14.7 billion dollar loss. The CBO numbers do not include costs for welfare, or local costs (state and local). The depressed wages and high unemployment are in the CBO also.

    People come here illegally for jobs, allowing them to stay, keep their jobs, and apply for citizenship is amnesty.

    There is no enforcement in the Senate bill, just loopholes to avoid it like the 1986 amnesty.

    The Border patrol, and the Citizenship and Immigration Services Council say that amnesty is wrong and do not support it. Also the the Citizenship and Immigration Services Council
    says that they can't handle this volume of people. The Black leadership group protested the Senate bill and claims there will be 'disastrous effects to the black community'

  • Samuel the Liberalite Farmington, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 2:24 p.m.

    For the record --

    Most Mormons don't live in Utah,
    don't live in the United States,
    and speak Spanish...

    Most Mormons are Hispanic, living South of the border [Lamanites], as prophesied.

  • Alfred Pheonix, AZ
    Aug. 8, 2013 2:17 p.m.

    "The CBO report shows the Senate bill raises revenue by taxing unauthorized immigrants..."

    They are required to pay taxes now. How would a new law fix that?

    "The Senate bill decreases undocumented immigration by increasing border security, guest worker visas, and workplace enforcement."

    We already have laws for increased border security and workplace enforcement. How would a new law fix that?

    "Immigrants would have to pay a fine and demonstrate English proficiency, history of employment, and economic solvency."

    And if they don't, are you going to deport them? I don't think so...

    "The process would take them years."

    The process would be circumvented by Democrats once the so-called 'Comprehensive' bill became law. They will drop the 'years' to 'months.' They need the votes.

    "It's an earned path to citizenship, not amnesty."

    Amnesty is where you get to stay... the details of how are irrelevant.

    "The House should propose, debate, and pass their own comprehensive bill, rather than flounder in empty rhetoric."

    The House should say... 'we already have adequate immigration laws. And for all illegals obey or get out.'

  • wrz Pheonix, AZ
    Aug. 8, 2013 2:01 p.m.

    Sorry to say but the article's author is not thinking very clearly.

    If families are broken up it has nothing to do with our immigration laws. If someone is here illegally and has a family here, take them with you as you leave.

    All illegals have to do if they want to become citizens is follow our immigration laws... that is, fill out the necessary papers, go home, and get in line. There are millions who are doing it the right way now.

    If the US doesn't enforce immigration laws currently on the books and continues to offer amnesty or a pathway to citizenship for illegals, we will be flooded with more and more of the same. There are millions of people around the globe who would like to come to America and if we make it too easy they will flood in. In fact, we are being flooded now. We can't ease or circumvent our immigration laws or we'll start looking like a third world nation. Furthermore, illegals come for jobs. We already have millions of unemployed Americans, which means we have no jobs for foreigners.

  • Dragline Oream, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 12:52 p.m.

    @ SLars

    You comment that "It would hurt the economy, cause more unemployment, and depress wages wages for decades (Congressional budget office)" is patently and perniciously untrue.

    Here is the truth:

    "CBO estimates that fixing our broken immigration system will reduce federal deficits by about $200 billion over the next 10 years, and about $700 billion in the second decade. "

    You really should be ashamed of yourself for the incorrect information given that will affect people's lives.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 12:21 p.m.

    I am trying to figure out how changing the laws and doing everything they propose will even work.

    The problem isn't that we don't have enough visa slots open in a given year.

    The problem is that the paperwork and hassle the government gives to any employer looking to hire an immigrant. The government then has a very slow and bad process for the person seeking the visa to go through.

    What do any of the current proposals do to make the process easier for employers and people seeking employment?

    If the proposals go through, are we going to have a streamlined system for visa applications? Are they going to hire more government workers to handle the increase in applications?

    The government IS the problem, and are using this issue for purposes other than helping immigrants.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Aug. 8, 2013 12:20 p.m.

    "if johnny jumps off the cliff, it justifies you doing it?"

    Nope, But is certainly is hypocritical to tell everyone how ignorant johnny is when in reality, you both jumped.

    Wouldn't your statement have been much more honest if it read

    "Why go through the bother to obtain citizenship when they know that none of our elected officials would send them home anyway?"

    But then, honesty was not your goal. Partisanship was.

  • The Hammer lehi, utah
    Aug. 8, 2013 12:10 p.m.

    @fitness freak

    The senate bill is not perfect but Republicans had their chance to fix this in 2005 and they failed to do so based on the same arguments you make. Every year the conservative position gets worse in our ability to negotiate our ideas with this problem and if we don't fix it, Hispanics who dislike the republican party will "birth" us conservatives into a minority! The demographics are there the kids have already been born and the future is almost certain that if we persist as the antagonist, the Anchor Children will eventually vote and they will vote against those who were so antagonistic to their parents.

    Our current laws are broke and that is why this is even an issue. Amensty exists already and the current laws lack the ability to enforce them whether aprobation by democrats/republican leaders or through constitutional restraints on search and seizure. As a conservative I will stand up and demand my congressman vote for this bill.

  • Edgar Samaria, ID
    Aug. 8, 2013 11:26 a.m.

    It is interesting the amount of paranoia expressed in the majority of these comments above. The letter writer isn’t suggesting a blanket amnesty but all the straw man developers are claiming that very thing. The letter writer is simply suggesting that the vast majority of those who are here illegally are doing everything else in their lives to live within the law, to be good, hard working citizens and their addition to our legal population just might enhance all of our lives. Thier commitment to family and hard work and their contribution to our tax base can only be a good thing. And if they obtain citizenship through a comprehensive process like the one being proposed, they will cherish that citizenship, most likely more than most who were born here.

    And another note to lost in DC, for your apparently uninformed interest, border security has continued to increase under President Obama every year he has been in office. The statistics are there, if only you will do your part to read them. Deportations are up, crime is down in the southern border states, because the president is committed to making it so.

  • The Hammer lehi, utah
    Aug. 8, 2013 11:16 a.m.

    @ fitness freak
    Do you know who those people are and their background? Half of them are refugees most likely. The other half likely are wealthy individuals who had the money to immigrate and only a small amount are those eligible through the lottery. Our immigration process is long and arduous, and in my work I meet these people and ask them about it. They complain of the long wait and difficult process.
    Our current immigration process is not orderly, and we have no way to track down or keep out those who overstay visas. We need biometrics and E-verify. Also what do you do with the dream act kids? Have you met them? Do you know them? It’s not as simple as just enforcing current law. You can’t just stop people randomly on the street and ask them to show their citizenship. You have to address each issue.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 11:07 a.m.

    if johnny jumps off the cliff, it justifies you doing it?

    for them to be taxed, they have to register, which they won't do because they WILL be taxed. there are no consequences for being here illegally, why LOSE money by registering, paying taxes and fines, etc? It makes no sense.

  • bryant77 Provo, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 10:13 a.m.

    Talking points against comprehensive reform have become empty rhetoric.

    “Comprehensive reform weakens the economy”. Not true. The CBO report shows the Senate bill raises revenue by taxing unauthorized immigrants and charging fines to get in line on a path to legalization/earned citizenship.

    “Comprehensive reform will flood the country will illegals”. Also untrue. The Senate bill decreases undocumented immigration by increasing border security, guest worker visas, and workplace enforcement.

    “Comprehensive reform is amnesty”. Again, untrue. The road to citizenship established in the Senate bill is tough. Immigrants would have to pay a fine and demonstrate English proficiency, history of employment, and economic solvency. They'd have to get in line behind others and would be penalized for it. The process would take them years. It's an earned path to citizenship, not amnesty.

    Comprehensive reform is not charity. It’s sound economic and social policy. Leading conservatives (including Karl Rove, Paul Ryan, and others) agree.

    The House should propose, debate, and pass their own comprehensive bill, rather than flounder in empty rhetoric. It’s good for the country. It’s good for the GOP. It’s good for families.

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 9:57 a.m.

    Excellent letter. Couldn't agree more.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Aug. 8, 2013 9:42 a.m.

    "Why go through the bother to obtain citizenship when they know BO won't send them home anyway?"

    Especially since the precedent was set by Reagan, and Bush and Clinton and Bush 1 and Carter and every other president prior to Obama (R and D).

    In the words of Clinton

    It takes some brass to attack a guy for doing what you did

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 9:39 a.m.

    One more point. I'll try to be brief.

    Last week Congressional House members were sent home with "talking points" propaganda kits to try to engage their citizens over the vacation they are on regarding the House amnesty bill. Advocates for illegal trespassers are putting on a "full court press" to try to pass ANY bill so that the Senate bill AND the House bill will wind up in a goofy process they call "reconcilliation".

    All this means is that IF the House passes ANY immigration bill, we will be stuck with the senate bill from a joint committee.

    RINO'S and democrats will see to that.

    If you haven't already contacted your legislators, either Matheson, Chaffetz, or Bishop you need to do that. If ANY House bill gets passed we will be stuck with the bills for illegal trespassers for decades!

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 9:27 a.m.

    "the hammer" Please don't tell me its impossible to emigrate to America. 400 people took the oath of citizenship approx. 4 wks ago in the state capital.

    The nice thing about having an ORDERLY immigration process is so we can keep track of everyone arriving. They are REQUIRED to learn English, have a sponsor, not burden the social services system, etc.
    Whats wrong with that? (other than the fact that lawbreakers don't like it?)
    BTW - IF they are arrested for any reason, they lose their immigration possibilities forever. Every other illegal trespasser just gets sent back to the border so they can try the same thing all over again.

    Illegal/unethical employers are behind the "Utah Compact". THEY'RE ONLY concerned with cheap labor. Nothing more. All of the employers who engage illegal trespassers know they are breaking the law. Should we just ignore that?
    If you had a construction business and wanted to obey the law (only hire LEGAL citizens)how would you like to have to compete with another business that only pays one-third the wages by employing illegal laborers?

  • The Hammer lehi, utah
    Aug. 8, 2013 8:53 a.m.


    You have to meet the people who came here and why they came here before you judge them as being invaders. Most of them are running away from a bad situation. Mexico has corruption and violent gang problems which basically control their cities and businesses. They see little hope for their kids in these cesspols and see better oppurtunity here except the only way to come here is without documents! If these people had a way to get here legally they would but our immigration system has never been fixed to correct the problems.

    Now I don't like people breaking our laws either but in this situation there illegality was based on problems that would likely cause you or anyone else in their situation to break the law and come here illegally if you cared about your family.

    The Utah compact is a good start and its goal is to intigrate those who want to stay and help provide the necessary documents to eventaully help those who have come here illegally and want to go back the proper understanding of how good government provides security so eventually they can solve the problem back home and stay there.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 8:41 a.m.

    I doubt it, only about 1/4 of those granted amnesty in '86 ever bothered to become citizens. Why go through the bother to obtain citizenship when they know BO won't send them home anyway?

  • JayTee Sandy, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 8:40 a.m.

    Somehow, many people still think that (a) charity is something that must be mandated and enforced by the government, rather than voluntary, and (b) the great American taxpayer and worker have the capacity to carry the burdens and right the wrongs experienced by the entire third-world population of this planet. Allowing people to gradually invade this country and then rewarding them for doing so is a sure recipe for ongoing disaster--and we're seeing the miserable fruits of that stance every day.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 3:14 a.m.

    Amnesty for business and those here illegally would just continue the law breaking for decades and decades. Enforcement as a deterrant is the only solution that is a solution.

    It would hurt the economy, cause more unemployment, and depress wages wages for decades (Congressional budget office). Plus it would bloat our welfare system and give business surplus labor, to put many workers on 29 hour work weeks to avoid Obamacare.

    The best thing we could do now is help our 26 million citizens find full time jobs, and decrease our welfare rolls.