Many workers only have part-time, temporary employment

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  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    July 18, 2013 5:55 a.m.

    From the DN, 10/17/13 3:45 PM “wages have fallen for low paying jobs”

    “lower-wage American workers have accounted for the lion's share of the jobs created since the 2007-2009 Great Recession”

    “wages dropped over all occupations by 2.8 percent between 2009 and 2012”

    “the greatest number of jobs being added to the economy are in the same exact sectors where wages have decreased the most.”

    “while mid-wage jobs accounted for 60 percent of the jobs lost in the recession, they made up only 22 percent of the recovery”

    We are still 2 million jobs BELOW the high water mark.

    Care to talk to the unemployed, under-employed, part-timers, and temps about how wonderful the job market is?

    Please take off your BO colored glasses and smell the coffee.

    BO’s trickle-up poverty is succeeding – see the above quotes from the DN article

  • Res Novae Ashburn, VA
    July 18, 2013 4:10 a.m.


    First, before you eliminate my job, please tell me what mechanism you'd replace it with so that the government can contract with the private sector in a way that both protects the taxpayer and is fair and reasonable to contractors. You're so eager to attack any government construct that you never pause to consider what reasons prompted its creation in the first place.

    Second, in terms of bureaucratic costs I saved $19.7 million through negotiations last month. Compare that to the GS payscale.

    Third, enough with the "they tell us" schtick; if you're going to have a conversation with someone, respond to them directly rather than preaching to an imaginary choir.

    Fourth, you're so stuck on your negative stereotypes of government workers that you're missing the point that my job is explicitly to avoid the very "steering" you're fixated with. Skim the Federal Acquisition Regulations and get back to me.

    Fifth, you're still avoiding the issue you'd raised about promoting government contracting and its costs. You have to choose between spending and stimulus.

    Sixth, what is your job and how does it contribute to better society? Seems only fair to discuss.

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    July 18, 2013 12:28 a.m.

    @Res Novae "we can continue spending money at the cost of the deficit in hope of generating employment until the economy is self-sustaining."

    Also known as the Keynesian death spiral. Every dollar taxed out of the economy "in hope of generating employment" must be paid back with interest. It therefore carries with it either present taxation, or the promise of future taxation. Wise citizens plan for these taxes, diverting funds to that purpose which otherwise would have been used to generate employment. Foolish politicians see the resulting unemployment and propose as a remedy more spending. Repeat until broke.

    Better to stop trying gimmicks, and be honest with ourselves, and spend only what we take in. People who, as a result, find themselves without a government job, will have to find ways to produce something of value in the private economy. This effort leads to growth.

    @Blue " laws..."

    You're right about tax laws, if you take John Roberts at his word and count Obamacare's employer mandate as a tax law. It truly does incentivize part-time employment and penalize full-time employment.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 17, 2013 9:34 p.m.


    I've never met a government employee yet who wasn't perfectly certain that the government would fail without his help. They all claim that they're saving money, yet they never tell us how much their part of the bureaucracy costs the tax payers. They all claim that those outside of government are corrupt and that we need them for our own good. They actually tell us that while keeping a straight face.

    What is that bureaucrats don't know about licensed vendors bidding? It sounds like their main job is to steer contracts to the politicians, the very politicians who protect all bureauracracies.

  • Res Novae Ashburn, VA
    July 17, 2013 9:06 p.m.

    No, Mike, you're reaching for your soapbox prematurely. My job is required because sad experience shows that your vaunted private sector tends to gouge the government and you the taxpayer when selling stuff. The 2000 pages regulate *ME*, not companies, requiring me to get competitive bids, emphasize small businesses, prevent conflicts of interest/nepotism, treat companies fairly, prevent fraud/waste/abuse, and get best value for the taxpayer's dollar. Only contracting officers have delegated authority to buy services/supplies for the government because spending would be exponentially higher if anyone in the government could buy whatever they want at whatever price. We are a curb on spending. My ultimate responsibility is to the taxpayer. Don't preemptively judge me and what I do unless you actually understand what it is, no matter how inherently immoral you think government and its employees are.

    Your attack on my profession sidesteps the point I made. You want the government to turn to the private sector to promote private sector jobs. That is what I do on a daily basis. But you also want the government to reduce spending. You cannot do job stimulus and spending reductions at the same time.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 17, 2013 6:55 p.m.


    Why is your job required? If I need a lawyer, I don't ask someone in government to find me one. I'm not picking on you, but your job is exactly why there is a problem in spending. Anytime it takes a 2,000 page book of regulations to determine if a business qualifies to provide its services to the government is the time that Americans need to demand a mass firing of "regulators". If a business is licensed, government has already "qualified" it. It doesn't take another level of bureaucracy to "re-qualify" that business.

    Those of us in the private sector don't need nor want bureaucrats to spend precious tax dollars by shuffling papers, papers which only justify their own jobs to their bureaucratic bosses. The cost of layers of bureaucracies is paid for because politicians have found faceless bureaucrats make it easier for them to "bring the bacon home" just in time for their next fundraiser.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    July 17, 2013 5:30 p.m.

    Behold the vision that repubs have for America. The result of 3 decades of failed Reaganomics. Trickle down has failed

  • Res Novae Ashburn, VA
    July 17, 2013 5:15 p.m.

    @Mike Richards,

    "If "goverernment [sic]" needs a service performed, it should be required to hire businesses in the private sector to do the work."

    The government does look to the private sector for services all of the time. Anything that isn't defined as an "inherently governmental function" can be contracted out. I use a 2000 page regulations book that mandates that I seek competitive bids for services from the private sector whenever possible. I've done contracts for secretaries, rocket scientists, historians, financial analysts, accountants, satellite engineers, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, IT specialists, security guards, cooks, and consultants of all stripes. Contracts go to independent contractors, small businesses, and corporate giants.

    But here's the catch - the folks performing these services expect to get paid for their services. That takes money. The very money you insist at every turn we cannot afford to spend.

    This is what catches us between Scylla and Charybdis - we can continue spending money at the cost of the deficit in hope of generating employment until the economy is self-sustaining. Or we can focus on the deficit at the cost of unemployment. Economics 101 says we cannot do both simultaneously.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2013 2:50 p.m.

    lost in DC: "blue, checked the employment figures lately?"

    Yes, have you?

    When Obama took office the US unemployment rate stood at 7.8% and we were in the middle of the worst economic melt-down since the Great Depression of the 1930's.

    Today the unemployment rate stands at 7.6% and the economy continues struggling to recover.

    Meanwhile, Republicans operate on a philosophy that anything in opposition to President Obama, no matter how nonsensical, hypocritical, or damaging to the economy, is what they'll stridently embrace.

    Again - a "war on business" is a complete fantasy. More Americans are forced to find work through temp jobs and contracted labor because business leaders prefer easily replaceable, non-unionized, no-benefits workers, and our tax laws reward them for this strategy.

  • T. Party Pleasant Grove, UT
    July 17, 2013 2:41 p.m.

    @10CC "Businesses aren't hiring a lot of new, permanenet [sic] employees.. breakthroughs.. ..very serious pressure point.. ..doomsday scenario..."

    And all of these amazingly unprecedented events in history just happened to synchronize with the implementation of Obamacare. What a remarkable coincidence! And who could *ever* have seen this coming?

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 17, 2013 2:07 p.m.

    I can’t imagine that there are businessmen who purposefully cause their business to fail. But that doesn’t mean that they would not do it if it meant greater profit later. Closing their doors just means that they withdrew from the market and sat idle on the side. They probably did not do any thing illegal just immoral. I can think of no other reason for the hoarding of cash other than the hope for greater profits later.

    In my lifetime there has never been this level of hate and anger toward a president and the federal government. I had never heard of the party-of-no before. I had never heard of non stop TV and radio hate that goes on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. But I have seen and heard that kind of hate from some people all my life.

    To say it is only because of his policies is to deny truth.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    July 17, 2013 12:56 p.m.

    yeah, and a new species of dinosaur was just discoverd in utah. so what's the connection?

    no more related thatn your comment

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2013 12:30 p.m.

    So the jobs situation isn't all that good... I could've sworn just a day or two ago there was an editorial about how sequestration was no big deal.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    July 17, 2013 12:24 p.m.

    Businesses aren't hiring a lot of new, permanenet employees, because they simply don't need them. Profits are at sky-high levels, and technology has enabled greater productivity with fewer employees.

    With past technology breakthroughs, employement has caught up to short-term technological displacement of workers, but this gap between productivity and employment first appeared in the year 2000 and (so far) shows no signs of abatement.

    This could be a very serious pressure point in the history of Capitalism. As technology makes employees less necessary - such as Amazon's acquisition of a Robot company that will help them eliminate warehouse jobs - this problem will become worse. There are only so many pizza delivery positions available, and in 20 years the Google auto-car may be able to replace them.

    We may get to the doomsday scenario where kids ask their parents, "what exactly are people for, anyway?"

  • Arizona1 Tucson, AZ
    July 17, 2013 10:50 a.m.

    Ultra Bob, to say that businesses are purposefully failing to punish the American people for electing Obama is silly. No businessman intentionally fails just because he doesn't like the election results. Businessmen are capitalists that want to be successful--and often work very hard to get to that point. They are not going to flush all their work down the toilet for such childish reasons.

  • dalefarr South Jordan, Utah
    July 17, 2013 9:44 a.m.

    European democracies usually have a labor party and a conservative (or some other named) party that represents capitalists of investors. There is little or no confusion on who each party represents. Its been a long time since labor had strong political backing in this Country. Hence, part-time jobs, few if any benefits, more women and children working and tough economic times for those who try to make money by working. Corporate values are not family values and never will be.

  • Grundle West Jordan, UT
    July 17, 2013 9:39 a.m.

    So...According to one poster...The Obama Administration has failed miserably simply because we wanted him to fail.

    This is absurd.

    We have families to feed, investments to grow, education to pursue, and dreams to live. No one is putting all that on hold just to spite the public for voting for our current President.

    BTW...The stock market inflation is simply keeping up with the devaluation of the dollar. It is a poor indication of our economic health. Employment participation, interest rates, subsidy levels and so on, are better indicators of an economy's well being.

    What we need? A fundamental change in our perceptions and values that can make a free-market representative republic work.

    Core values of self reliance and personal responsibility.

    If we can embrace these two concepts above all else, then we can become the wealth producing nation that stands as an example of the highest that human beings can be.

    We have not been perfect, but we have shown the world the best that there has ever been!

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    July 17, 2013 9:30 a.m.

    checked the employment figures lately?

    tell the long term unemployed, the under-employed, the part-timers and temps how wonderful the stock market is doing. Go ahead, rub salt in their wounds.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    July 17, 2013 9:12 a.m.

    @ Blue. Obviously you have never owned a business.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 17, 2013 8:42 a.m.

    The unfortunate truth is that the presidency of President Obama has set back this nation 100 years in terms of workers and race relations. Not because of his failures but because of the widespread intense effort to make him fail.

    At a time when we needed to be focused on the rebirth of freedom and rights for Americans, many of our leading institutions, business, religion and social have closed their doors, reduced investment and spending and in general done every thing they could to punish the American people for electing President Obama.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2013 8:24 a.m.

    Mountanman: "Have you considered that it isn't 'austerity' creating these employment issues but actually the government's war on businesses causing these problem?"

    Reality check: The Dow is at record highs, as are corporate profits and corporate cash reserves. Meanwhile, the actual, real-world tax rates paid by corporations are at record lows and the labor movement has never been weaker or more fractured.

    The "war on business" is fiction.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    July 17, 2013 8:09 a.m.

    @ Marxist. Have you considered that it isn't "austerity" creating these employment issues but actually the government's war on businesses causing these problem? Obamacare mandates to employers for example? Government over regulations perhaps? How about the highest corporate taxes in the world, do you suppose that has an effect?

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 17, 2013 8:07 a.m.

    Government cannot create jobs without using income taxes from the private sector. The government has tens of thousands of lawyers - and there are tens of thousands of lawyers in private practice who need more work. Government has tens of thousands of social workers when tens of thousands of social workers are looking for clients.

    If "goverernment" needs a service performed, it should be required to hire businesses in the private sector to do the work.

    Taxes revenues are over $1 TRILLION per year less than spending. Until more PRIVATE SECTOR workers have jobs, income taxes will not increase. Stealing money from the private sector by increasing the taxes assessed to the "rich guy" only forces businesses to close. The net result is less income tax collected.

    Part-time work is the direct result of government mandates on business. Business owners cannot hire the people they need without Obama telling them what benefits they have to "give" their employees. One size does not fit all. Each business is unique. Each employee is unique. Government mandates were proven futile in the Soviet Union. Why is Obama forcing them on America?

    Get government off our backs. Let the market work.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    July 17, 2013 8:04 a.m.

    while there is generally a tie between fiscal policy and economic expansion, they do not function in parallel.

    use a sports car, as an analogy.

    with continued government spending, the horsepower rating is 425. reduce government spending, and the horsepower rating drops to 400. Still PLENTY of power to go very fast.

    with Obamacare and BO's declared war on the domestic coal industry, as well as his other anti-business and higher tax policies, he is leaving the 8 speed sports car in 3rd gear, with the parking brake on.

    take off the parkng brake and shift into higher gear, and the 400 ponies will still move that car rapidly down the road.

  • T. Party Pleasant Grove, UT
    July 17, 2013 7:45 a.m.

    If there's a crisis of confidence in the country, it's only because we just elected Jimmy Carter to his third term.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2013 7:34 a.m.

    Whether intentional or an unintended consequence, the inarguable fact is that tax laws of the past 30 years have facilitated a massive wealth redistribution away from the poor and middle class and towards the already-wealthy.

    In college, I could afford rent, food, clothes, pay tuition and keep my car running with my 25 hr/week job that paid only a little better than minimum wage.

    Try doing that now.

    In our parents' generation, dad's income from his one job was more than enough for the family. Mom stayed home and helped us with school projects.

    Today, it takes two or more incomes to maintain anything resembling a middle-class family life.


    Inflation-adjusted wages have been stagnant or even declining for decades. Employers increasingly view employees as expendable, fully fungible and no more important to the bottom line than the price of diesel fuel.

    Then comes 2008 and the most severe economic collapse since the Great Depression. Recovery is slowly being achieved, but largely through technology-driven improvements in productivity, and fewer employees are needed.

    Is it any wonder that temp jobs are booming?

    A cure for this requires overhauling our wildly inequitable tax laws.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    July 17, 2013 1:27 a.m.

    Now is not the time to flood this country with more visas, and 11 millon plus citizens. Now is the time to enforce current laws, and put Americans back to work.

    The surplus labor bubble for business has burst. Work all your life then have your government give away your job is not acceptable. It's take the incentive to work away from millions of people.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2013 1:00 a.m.

    And yet the "highly respected religious, business, and civic leaders" persistently push for things like the Gang of Eight bill, which would exacerbate the problem by flooding the nation with 50 million or so foreign workers, thus driving wages and job opportunities down even further.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2013 12:56 a.m.

    This country, with the urging of outlets like the Deseret News, is doing the direct opposite of what it should be doing. What is it doing? It is pursuing a policy of austerity - cuts across the board including cuts in the economic safety net. The Deseret News thinks such cuts are harmless. Witness your brushing off of sequestering funds at HAFB. We should be pursuing New Deal type initiatives, but we are doing the direct opposite and things will not improve for that reason. If we take the advice of the Deseret News we may end up with an outright depression on our hands.