Stop expanding fossil fuels

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  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    July 7, 2013 5:29 p.m.

    Re Sensible Scientist

    Suggest an alternative? How about making use of geothermal, especially that of Yellowstone? Yellowstone alone could supply 70 billion watts or enough to replace 35 large coal power plants.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    July 7, 2013 8:26 a.m.

    "When 'green' energy sources are really ready for market they will succeed on their own merits."

    This is a laughable argument.... because most American businesses don't exist on their own merits.... the most exceptional of American businesses benefited from government support, investment, and intervention. Lets no confuse idealism with the real world.

  • No One Of Consequence West Jordan, UT
    July 6, 2013 11:17 p.m.

    "Advocating actions which are detrimental to society and civilization is irresponsible and immoral. Please stop."

    Yes, please stop advocating detrimental actions...

    Actions like giving taxpayer funds to crony-socialist solar energy frauds.

    Actions like requiring gasoline to contain ethanol, the creation of which consumes more fuel per gallon than it produces, and raises world food prices.

    Actions like locking up Utah low-sulfur coal so that dirtier energy sources are used instead.

    Actions like forcing up the cost of electricity by myopic utopian decrees that bypass the legislative process.

    Actions like demonizing nuclear power plants and preventing sensible nuclear waste disposal.

    When 'green' energy sources are really ready for market they will succeed on their own merits.

    In the meantime, thank you Joseph for sharing your personal beliefs with us today.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    July 6, 2013 8:36 p.m.

    I work in the energy sector.... and I find chat like this most amusing. It wasn't too long ago that America came to prominence by being the agents of change.... by abandoning the old, and looking to the new - to drive economic growth. Now that we feel we are comfortability on top.... we cling to the old just as other old empires did... hoping that if we keep change from our door.

    We, as a society, are falling into the endless trap that once on top, we want to freeze how things are..... while young, more ambitious, and more risk willing societies innovate and move forward. China, Brazil, and India are among those that are more hungry than we are.... and the end result will be the same.

    So keep drilling, developing yesterdays technology.... while others move ahead.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    July 6, 2013 5:54 p.m.

    MM is simply promoting the company line instead of thinking of solutions.

    Imagine what would happen if we concentrated on solutions rather than scoring points in this political football game? How much longer will repubs refuse to solve anything and remain angry spoiled obstructionists?

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    July 6, 2013 4:55 p.m.

    Yes, MM, we are dependent upon fossil fuels and will be for an unfortunately long time. But your idea that we must simply accept that as an unchangeable fact is foolish in the extreme.

    Even more concerning that that, however, are the slanted exaggerations you constantly use as you try to demean other, more sensible folks here.

    What would happen if both sides -- right and left -- came together with the idea of actually TRYING to work with one another to seek solutions?

    Why are you afraid of something like that?

  • LDS Tree-Hugger Farmington, UT
    July 6, 2013 4:31 p.m.

    Guys like Moutaman would still be slaughtering whales for oil if they could.


    Thinkin\' Man
    Rexburg, ID

    "This letter epitomizes the left's naive, utopian view. There is no magic wand to wave and suddenly reduce our dependence on oil. It will take time, major technological break-throughs, and a lot of investment.

    The fact is that we need it now, and we need it badly."

    We don't NEED more oil or even new technology,
    We need to be better stewards with what we've got.

    A truck/SUV burning 9 miles per gallon, vs. cars getting 40+ is not new major break through technology but just plain old common sense.

    What we need to do is to pay full market price of $7 per gallon without government subsidizes like Europe and Asia does to see how the free markets adjusts.

  • Sensible Scientist Rexburg, ID
    July 6, 2013 3:36 p.m.

    Alternative energy sources for transportation are not yet available. The best alternative we have is natural gas. NOTHING else is even in the development stage to replace oil for cars, big trucks, and trains.

    Go ahead and say we need to switch over, but please suggest a specific alternative. And don't forget trucking, or your alternative is insufficient to make a real difference.

  • Thinkin\' Man Rexburg, ID
    July 6, 2013 3:32 p.m.

    This letter epitomizes the left's naive, utopian view. There is no magic wand to wave and suddenly reduce our dependence on oil. It will take time, major technological break-throughs, and a lot of investment.

    The fact is that we need it now, and we need it badly. Not approving the Keystone pipeline would be like telling a diabetic that she can have a different medicine later, just not the old, proven one now.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    July 6, 2013 3:26 p.m.

    Once again, the US citizens will take on the risk for the reward of a few corporations.
    The pipeline will do nothing more than run across the US so Canadian oil can be easily sold to Asia. It will not decrease US gas prices but we'll run the risk of spills.
    The Keystone pipeline will be a huge mistake.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    July 6, 2013 3:20 p.m.

    Ole man. That's all well and good in theory but try telling that to a nation who has to choose between $4.00/gal gasoline to get to work and buying food and clothes for their families. Try telling that to any business owner who has try to buy energy to manufacture and move their products to the market and then has to pass along high energy prices to his customers and tell him to use green energy to compete with goods made in China! Tell THEM to use green energy! Perfect recipe for economic collapse! Where are the millions of "green energy" jobs Obama promised? Answer: there are none and billions of taxpayer dollars have been and are being squandered by the government trying to produce green energy! Like it are no we are DEPENDANT on fossil fuels!

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    July 6, 2013 1:47 p.m.

    I support the President's call for a shift away from fossil fuels. Obviously it will take time, but it's past time to begin. The new generation of nuclear plants is a step in the right direction, as well as thermal solar plants that can heat entire cities.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    July 6, 2013 1:43 p.m.

    MM -- no one is "demanding others give up their lives, their jobs and their health." To make that claim is simply a matter of parroting the propaganda of those who are skilled at deluding people who are unable -- or unwilling -- to think for themselves and learn the truth.

    In fact, when you actually stop to THINK about it, what people like me are doing is trying our best to make sure that others will NOT have to give up their lives, their jobs and their health. Unless wisdom succeeds in overcoming the delusional thinking of some people out there, we will soon find ourselves out of oil, out of water, out of a healthy atmosphere and, in short, out of a healthy world for everyone.

    If you wish to doom your descendants to that kind of future, go ahead. The real waste of time is short-sighted thinking that desperately tries to protect present day profits without seeking long term solutions. If we don't seek those solutions, green energy will never become feasible and affordable.

  • FreedomFighter41 Orem, UT
    July 6, 2013 12:04 p.m.

    I don't see how one could be a good Mormon and yet promote the expansion of fossil fuels. Green energy is available it's just a choice of whether we want it or not.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    July 6, 2013 11:34 a.m.

    One old man. How smart is it to demand others give up their lives, their jobs and their health but those of you who demand others must comply don't do so yourselves? The rich can afford every higher energy but what about those who are not rich? Are you willing to destroy their live so you can believe you are "saving the planet" and feel smug and arrogant? Green energy is fine but so far, it is not feasible nor affordable, especially for the poor who can not afford your very expensive green energy that does not exist yet! In the meantime, the temperature of the earth has been stable for 16 years! What a waste of time!

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    July 6, 2013 10:01 a.m.

    Reading comments that excoriate others for "hypocrisy" because they use fossil fuels or wear clothes or use medicines leave me bewildered and bemused. How can anyone believe that we should simply be content with the mess we have inherited from the past? Shouldn't we be working actively to find BETTER ways to provide energy, propel our vehicles, warm or cool our homes and clothe ourselves?

    Calling anyone a hypocrite because they use the only resources available to us now while at the same time they try to advocate for something better is simply nonsensical -- and may I say it -- not very smart at all.

    Had the nonsensical naysayers of today been around in the early 1800's, we'd still be burning whale oil for light, riding in horse drawn vehicles and dying of any number of diseases.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    July 6, 2013 9:20 a.m.

    I've done the math. The oil sands are going to be developed, and the product sold, keystone or not. In addition to the math, I think it's a sound observation to suggest that the US vehicle fleet is more or less dedicated to fossil fuel, and that this fact won't change for decades even if a concerted effort started today. We're going to need oil for a long, long time to come. A lot of it. Now then, where to get it? From the folks up north, who send a lot of the benefits back our way and tend not to want to hate us, or from our good friends in Venezuela or the middle east?

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    July 6, 2013 9:14 a.m.

    Mountan, I for one would like to know what you think you have to gain by ignoring a path to cleaner, healthier, and more sustainable energy. Is it that you think you are immune to the perils of bad air including methane levels increasing with the melting of the ice caps? Is it because you would be in mourning if the captains of the oil industry didn't squeeze every last drop from the earth's surface? Do you really think that Wall Street will go under if the price of energy was controlled by supply and demand instead of commodity speculation? Joseph wrote a great letter and I think we need divert oil subsidies into development of healthier renewables if no other reason than a healthier world.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    July 6, 2013 7:16 a.m.

    Hey Joseph, show us the way! Stop using fossil fuel energy yourself, otherwise you join the ranks of the hypocrites. No more riding in cars, busses or airplanes, no more eating food unless you produce it yourself without fossil fuel energy to grow it and transport it. Give up your job unless of course that does not use energy either! No more air conditioning, or heat in the winter. No wearing clothes that required energy to produce or transport. No medicines if you get sick that were produced and transported by evil fossil fuels. Save the planet and don't be a hypocrite by exhaling "evil" C02!

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    July 6, 2013 12:56 a.m.

    Fantastic letter!

    Amen and amen