This bill doesn't enforce anything, period. It is all PROMISES. Any adult
who was living since 1986 should realize, and remmeber that there has been NO
enforcement of promises made then! Senator Kennedy said it would be the last
amnesty! Hah! Senator Hatch has broken his word. Where are there Senators with
integrity? Senator Lee did the honest and wise thing in voting NO! Why would
any preson, especially Hatch and McCain, who were in the Senate in 1986 be so
gullible as to vote for "promises". S.744 makes amnesty FIRST, with NO
assurances of BORDER SECURITY. It's left up to Napolitano, and she says the
border is already secure!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT makes anyone think SHE will change
that opinion? Maybe if a horde of illegals came across and entered her domain.
While I support the pathway to citizenship, I have grave concerns about the
lessening of family reunification as the number one goal of immigration
legislation. I also have reservations about the guest worker program. I hope
they implement it to be friendly to whole families coming here, but it is often
a system of needlessly separating families.That said, this is
probably the only reform we will get, so it is worthwhile. Those who oppose
"amnesty" should be glad the bill makes it so someone can not get
regular immigrant status for 10 years. It is actually unclear that many will be
able to meet the very low allowed amount of unemployed time. The requirement of
English language proficiency should also satisfy those who generally oppose
"amnesty".This is a compromise that all should be able to
live with. I am glad several Republicans, including Flake and Hatch, voted for
the reform. I am surprised no Democrats voted against it as too harsh. The
system needs reform, and we need to deal in reality.I have
reservations against the law, but it is on the whole a good one.
Shame on Hatch. He seems to have forgotten who he is working for. The people. As
I understand it, there was overwhelming opposition to an amnesty bill, but he
ignored us because he is "wise enough to know better and do what is
best". Ha! Too bad he will never stand for re-election. Also, too bad Utah
has no recall law. I would start a petition to recall him.
@Beaver Nation - you brought up race, not me. Whether it's a single word
or not, it's offensive and false. Racism simply doesn't need to be
raised if you have valid ideas, since actual racists have been properly outcast
to the fringes. Nobody takes them seriously. Your argument about
possible district gerrymandering perfect. Guess what - if minorities voted for
Republicans, they wouldn't try to restructure the district! It has nothing
to do with racism, and everything to do with partisanship and control. You rush
right out to the racism card, apparently without considering that Republicans
want to move a Republican or conservative agenda, and try to manipulate the
system to garner votes - just like Democrats. Doesn't make it right, but
it doesn't make it racist either. If the "non-minorities" voted
Republican, do you think for a minute Republicans would worry about
gerrymandering the district? The racism card is so intellectually shallow, if
not downright dishonest. BTW, so is gerrymandering, in my opinion.I
doubt you can one of the "few" racists you think are getting so much
attention. I can name intellectually shallow race-baiters all day.
Lightdee,I agree on that and similar points. Turning to some
different aspects of the illegal alien issue, aliens, legal or not, should not
be given government benefits, given advantages over legal citizens or put in
front of those who legally immigrated. I believe that there needs to be
consequences whenever anyone breaks the law. At the same time, I disagree with
many in the extreme right about the severity of the offense and lack of adequate
compassion in the consequences, as well as what we can realistically afford to
do about the issue. People who want to enter the United States,
obey the laws and gain citizenship in order to better their lot in life should
not be restricted from doing so. There should be no quotas on immigration for
those willing to seek citizenship. If we got rid of quotas, government benefits
and roadblocks to legal citizenship, provided reasonable consequences and
compassionate paths forward to otherwise law-abiding illegal immigrants already
here and held businesses responsible when they hire illegal immigrants or did
their hiring under-the-table, many problems currently associated with illegal
immigration would diminish greatly.
There's a BIG issue here nobody seems to be talking about. It's the
massive increase in HB-1 visas the bill adds. This is a big problem for tech
workers and our collective future. Tech businesses want a bunch of cheap
engineers, programmers, etc. who are beholden to those individual companies.
Those people come over from India & China, depress wages for tech workers
and then they go back a few years later, because they are not citizens &
they got the experience they need. Then they improve the tech industries in
their homelands and leave the US worse off. Why? Because of the depressed
salaries and non-level playing field, US college students don't go into
those fields and we are left with a weaker workforce in the long run. This
cycle was especially bad in the late 90's and early 2000's. The HB-1
program is short-term gain for tech companies but longer term it's bad for
the US and our own engineers and programmers. We need to improve our own tech
workforce through education and training and not try to go on-the-cheap by
importing Chinese and Indian temps.
@LetsDebate,You concentrate on one word you find objectionable and
ignore the rest. Since you insist on discussing it, the evidence I cite for
racism being alive and well is that as soon as the Supreme Court struck down key
parts of the Voting Rights Act, Texas planned to change voting districts to
highly favor non-minorities, making one district made up of mostly minorities
ridiculously large and many times larger than districts largely populated by
caucasians, forcing the Supreme Court to vacate a key part of its previous
decision. As for the rest of your response, unfortunately, you are
one of those who take a single word out of context,ignore the rest of what is
being said and make unfounded accusations in order to draw attention from the
real intent. To clarify, I do not consider the vast majority of those with whom
I disagree to be acting out of sinister reasons, but to be acting out of pure
philosophical differences, nor do I consider all on the far right or far left to
be sinister. However, the few that do are the ones who get the majority of the
@Beaver Native - I don't think there are enough politically active people
who are motivated by race to even mention it. I think there are far, far, more
race baiters than actual racists, and to me that's equally despicable.
It's a highly intellectually shallow argument used by people who think
their own beliefs are so perfectly logical and flawless that anyone with a
different opinion must be opposing for some sinister reason.And,
since racism is now practically the equivalent of murder, the charge is used as
a way for someone with no ideas left to just stop any further debate of
legitimate philosophical differences. The faster one goes to the racism
accusation, the shallower the intellect, and some people get there pretty
quickly. How do you debate someone who's so void of thinking capacity?
It is very disappointing that Senator Hatch would side with those supporting
amnesty for undocumented immigrants. Senator Lee understood clearly that this
bill would not secure the borders and would be a set back for millions of
unemployed Americans, so he properly voted against it. Dan Liljenquist would
have also voted like Senator Lee if he had been elected. Too bad for Utah and
LetsDebate,I didn't say or imply that all or even most on the
far right are racists; I only believe that too many are motivated by racism to
one degree or another, even if they don't admit it, even to themselves. I
believe that the majority of Republicans are acting out of honest philosophical
differences, just as most Democrats are acting out of honest philosophical
differences. I believe that the majority of both parties are acting on what
they believe to be true. It is those who twist the facts on both sides of the
line that are the ones to be feared. In my opinion, that clearly includes Reid,
President Obama and Pelosi. I believe that Senator Lee and many in his class
are acting out of honest philosophical differences. It's the few
extremists who twist the facts and don't even try to look at reality,
however, that seem to be getting the majority of the attention. As far as
idealogy is concerned, idealogical differences are fine, so long as honesty and
what realistically can be done are kept in perspective.
@NeilT and Brave Native - I find the charge of racism to be so totally
intellectually vapid that I wonder if it's not simple intellectual
dishonesty. Certainly it's intellectually shallow if you really believe
it. Why do you think the same people had the same vehemence for Bill Clinton,
and for Nancy Pelosi? Why do you think the far right faction loves Herman Cain,
Mia Love, and Elbert Guillory, a black Louisiana state legislator who recently
switched parties to become Republican?Here's a clue - it has
EVERYTHING to do with party and/or ideology, and NOTHING to do with race. Make
some effort to understand passionate differences in governing philosophy, and
you'll see the entire reason the far right dislikes President Obama. Do
you really think they would like Nancy Pelosi one bit better as president? Oh
yeah - then it would be because they're sexist. You know, because Sarah
Palin and Michelle Bachman probably aren't women, just like Herman Cain and
Mia Love probably aren't really black since they're political darlings
of the far right.I don't understand why people like you
can't fathom that others actually have honest philosophical differences.
Beaver Native. I concur with your comments. The far right is loosing
political influence and they know it. Let's do the right thing and make
sure Mike Lee is a one term Senator. I suspect there are already several
prominent Republicans already preparing to challenge him. If the house refuses
to pass comprehensive immigration reform they will live to regret it.
A company has 100 employees, and decide they need 5 more. . If they choose to
hire five U.S. citizens or if they choose to hire five legal permanent
residents--five legal immigrants--they face a penalty of $25,000 for doing
so--$5,000 apiece right off his bottom line to the IRS. In contrast, if they
decide instead to hire five amnestied individuals, who came here illegally among
those 11 million who are here illegally but granted RPI legalization under the
Gang of 8 bill, the company pays a penalty of zero dollars. In this
instance, who is the company going to hire? This bill creates an enormous
incentive to hire those here illegally, and at the same time it does it by
creating a statutory penalty for hiring U.S. citizens or legal immigrants.
when are all you Democrats and Republicans going to stand on principle, rather
than democratic 'compromise"? Love of country means standing up for
the Constitution and liberty, rather than 'ideology'. If you know
something is wrong and fail to correct it, you are thinking of yourself! If
anybody here thinks that this bill is going to 'fix' the problem, it
Dear Sen. Hatch, You are the man I always knew you were and today you have
proved it. Do you remember these words? "We can no longer grant amnesty. I
fought against the 1986 Simpson-Mazzoli bill because they granted amnesty to 3
million people. They should have to get in line like anybody else if they want
to come into this country and do it legally." If your memory is as bad as
your word these are your words when you were begging us for our votes. Shame
Shame to you! You make me embarrassed to admit I ever voted for you.
Wanna know the difference between Orrin Hatch and Harry Reid? NOTHING....they are both LIBERALS!
Senator Hatch voted for the welfare of the United States. Lee didn't.
Business as usual.
If the bill is 1200 pages long, why are you all commenting on its passage...one
way or the other? If Senator Hatch hasn't read it, I doubt whether any of
us have read it.If it truly provides a path to legal status for
folks that have been living and working here with their families, I welcome it.
If it ensures we secure the border, I would vote for it. The fact it angers
folks on both sides of the aisle is probably a good thing.
Thanks to Senator Hatch for compromising and doing what's best for the
country. As a staunch Republican, I worry about the lack of compassion and
rational, realistic solutions espoused by the far right. While they have their
place in balancing things out, I fear them almost as much as I fear the
principles espoused by Democrats. The far right espouses fiscal conservity but
turns around and proposes solutions that the country can ill afford. Not only
can we not afford to hunt all illegal aliens down and export them, but it lacks
compassion for those who have committed the equivalent of a minor misdemeanor in
an effort to provide for their family.The vast majority of problems
caused by illegal alien activity would be solved with a more compassionate and
realistic approach. I fear that the hysteria that many members of the far right
exhibit is the result of racial prejudice against the hispanic, rather than a
realistic look at the facts and feasibility of implementing solutions. I have
come to realize that racism is far from dead in the United States and the
Republican party has been overly-influenced by a minority of its members.
this photo of McCain slapping hands with Schumer speaks thousands....This is the
reason that Bob Bennett was thrown out of the Senate ...much too cozy with the
good ole boys club of the far left demo-rats. Schumer is one of the worst.
McCain might as well be a demo-rat since he loves to bash Rand Paul and Mike Lee
and loves to put his arm around his good buddie chuckie Schumer. Hopefully the
senate will have another wave of conservatives wash out the purple republicans
like McCain in 2014. Unfortunately McCain has 4 more years I believe.
I applaud Senator Hatch. Though he doesn't feel the bill is perfect, it is
enormous progress. Senator Lee, and other conservatives, sit in the wings
wanting a perfect bill and as a result nothing gets done. This
country was built on compromise. Hatch is old enough and wise enough to realize
Good for you Senator Hatch. The status quo is bad for everyone and
there will never be a perfect bill. I applaud those who have the courage to
tackle this issue.
I'm sure the House has enough votes to get it through... if Boehner brings
it up. I have no idea what he'll do (he does have the option of trying to
pass a much more conservative bill though he'd lose a ton of democratic
votes and might not have enough of his own to get it through). In the end the
conference committee would decide the final parameters of the bill.
Shame on Hatch (again). He voted for this 1200 page law without reading it! It
reportedly is full of pork, special favors, perks, and non-immigration benefits
sneaked into the Bill.....plus it does not secure the border! We the People
continue to grow angry as politicians refuse to vote with the people and make
deals with their cronies. Shameful. I saw him in our ward before the
election....I hope he returns again because I am going to give him a piece of my
Senator Hatch did the same thing with his TARP vote five years ago. He was
against it until he voted for it. He always supports his mainstream (almost
liberal) GOP buddies like McCain and Graham instead of supporting principles.
Conservative Utahns are easily fooled because he campaigns like he is a tea
partier. I emailed him and said I wouldn't vote for him ever after his
flip flop on TARP and nothing has changed.
Much ado about nothing...This bill has absolutely NO CHANCE of EVER
being brought before the House.The Senate refuses to do the same
thing on bills coming from the House...The efficacy of a bill
notwithstanding...Until we elect people (not R's or D's or
I's) but people who actually SERVE the voters instead of padding their net
worth, we are stuck (I could have used a different word but the moderator would
never have accepted it).
Since the federal government has for decades failed so miserably at securing our
southern border, it's hard to understand why this bill grants provisional
legal status to undocumented illegals. With that sorry record, the government
needs a strong incentive to make sure their intent of a secure border actually
takes place before any illegal aliens are given any kind of legal status...
provisional or otherwise. And even at that, it's still hard to
understand why we should be rewarding illegal immigrants with a pathway to
citizenship... especially after finding out the net cost to American taxpayers
will be in the trillions of dollars. And since when should any illegal
activity ever be rewarded with anything positive? I thought the governments job
is to find and punish people who break the law.
If 40,000 people broke into a stock holders meeting for Microsoft and sat there
for 20 years in clear violation of the law, why would that company or any other
company give them the right to vote?Beyond ridiculous.Democrats spy on the American people in the name of security and yet refuse to
enforce the boarder. The only think they are concerned with is winning the next
election.This bill bars illegal aliens from Obama-Care but allows
they to work here legally. Employers can save about $3,000 a year by hiring
illegal aliens rather than our own high school dropouts. I guess the Democrats
call this "Social Justice".Hatch and McCain supposedly have
not problem with that.Vote Republicrat.
Hey Hatch...why are you voting with RINO McCain, Reid, and other left wing
hacks, while the true conservatives are voting NO! There is no Border Security
and nothing in this bill that stops another surge of 20 million illegals
crossing the border in the next five yrs creating the same problem you are
trying to solve today! If you vote with McCain....you are a true RINO!