To "ugottabkidn" you said that "Costs for our healthcare are more
than double than the rest of the world and yet we are way down the list for
outcomes." Thanks to the ACA our health insurance costs are going to
increase, making it so that we pay even more for the same outcome.If
the goal of the ACA was to lower costs and improve outcomes, doesn't that
mean that the ACA is a failure? If the ACA is a failure using its own goals as
the metric, shouldn't we scrap it and start over?
OK regressives. We will scrap all attempts to improve our healthcare system at
the expense of all for the benefit of insurance companies and corporate
healthcare organizations who make the world go round. If it is good for the CEO
then it's great for the Swiss economy. Costs for our healthcare are more
than double than the rest of the world and yet we are way down the list for
outcomes. This trickle down system has never worked in the history of the world
but you cling to it like babes to their mamas in the woods. The CEO of your
insurance company has yet taken your temperature and you throw our money at him
like he is the last hope on earth. If your neighbor is sick then too bad he
can't afford to get a CT scan. He should have been a CEO.
I could have solved the healthcare issues in this country, with about 30 pages
of legislation, not 2000+. It wouldn't have raised taxes. It would have
been market driven, not insurance driven, and would have included all the
conservative ideas and principles you despise and have heard through these four
years of debate, but choose to ignore! So that's your solution?
A bumper sticker. That is why the tea party is irrelevant.Let me guess
tort reform and free market across state lines. Yawn, that's been exposed
as the usual faulty ideas of radio shows performed by drop out's.I'm sorry you didn't get your gift bag from Obama.
Who's contesting the election? Obama promised enough freebies, that he was
able to garner the majority of low-information voters he needed to capture the
election! No contest! "Healthcare or Insurance system hanging by a
thread"? Now I know why the lefty's are such experts about tin-foil
hats. They are manic, hypochondriacs, who make up conspiracies about anything.
Nobody claimed our healthcare was perfect or couldn't use some
tweaking, but there certainly wasn't an emergency, that needed to be
addressed right in the middle of a major recession. Much about our healthcare is
the envy of the world! It wasn't in a critical stage of collapse! There
were absolutely bigger issues to deal with. I could have solved the
healthcare issues in this country, with about 30 pages of legislation, not
2000+. It wouldn't have raised taxes. It would have been market driven, not
insurance driven, and would have included all the conservative ideas and
principles you despise and have heard through these four years of debate, but
choose to ignore! And please stop spreading the obama lie number 187. Medical
costs haven't gone down at all, at best they've risen slower.
Kent: The right can't hear you...they are still contesting the results of
the election in November! The House has voted 37 times to repeal Obamacare and
not a single bill to replace it has been proposed. One would think our system of
healthcare insurance was just hunky dory rather than hanging on by a thread.
Ha-Ha can turn his sarcasm back on when he proposes the solution to the crisis
that Obamacare was passed to prevent and Two Bits will better understand it when
he asks if premiums have gone down for anyone...the CBO says medical costs have
gone down over the past two fiscal years, but premiums have gone up.
Wouldn't that suggest an increase in profits for health insurers?
Blaine? Come on, you really don't know where the money is going to come
from to cover all these liberal, feel-good, arbitrary handout programs, like
obamacare? Just like electricity for electric cars, and just like we are going
to create a strong economy and acceptable unemployment, by increasing taxes and
regulation - It's all going to happen by magic! Why are you asking or
raising such ridicules issues? Sarcasm off!
timpC:My friends in Germany would never trade their health-care
system for ours. It provides excellent care (too much in some cases) and costs
half what ours does.
If such government controlled health care is so wonderful why do so many
Europeans if they can afford it opt out and buy care from the few private
doctors still in practice? Or why are so many of our congressmen and federal
employees retiring now so they can keep their health care perks aqnd not join
the ACA? And finally why are so many unions seeking exemptions from this
wonderful program? All these signs are like rats escaping from a sinking ship.
2 bits, you just proved what many of us have long suspected. Making comments
based on faulty information -- perhaps deliberately faulty (lies?) -- without
first checking to see if they are accurate or truthful is kinda foolish,
isn't it?Obama phones? No such thing.Here is what
FactCheck has to say about it: "Q: Has the Obama administration started a
program to use "taxpayer money" to give free cell phones to welfare
recipients?A: No. Low-income households have been eligible for
discounted telephone service for more than a decade. But the program is funded
by telecom companies, not by taxes, and the president has nothing to do with it.
"People who post without checking facts are not only being
foolish, they are, in my opinion, being very unpatriotic as they deliberately or
carelessly try to drive this country even farther apart.That is
@2 bits -- Is there ANYBODY who didn't have their premiums go up
dramatically BEFORE Obamacare began to be phased in? You have a short memory.
Rising premiums have absolutely nothing to do with Obamacare and everything to
do with the high cost of medical care. In FACT, news reports I've read
have said the cost curve is beginning to go down. Of course that doesn't
fit with the tea party preconceived mindset, so it will be disregarded by all
who have their minds made up.
ACA has been phased in over the past 3 years.... Has ANYBODY seen their
insurance premiums go DOWN? Or the cost of Medical Care go DOWN? I
Passing up the "Obama Money" could be unwise. But I never received my
"Obama Phone". What if it's the same with this program? What if
the money never comes or is cut off in the future (due to another wave of
sequestration or other unforeseen change)?
Utah, with its several insurance plans and HMOs, provides excellent care at a
low cost. Insurance companies are not the problem, but they make a convenient
straw man to vilify. Universal and affordable health care is far from us without
basic reforms. Why is an MRI $1500 in the US and $150 in many other countries
with no perceptible loss of quality? Why is a certain operation three times more
expensive on the East Coast or Texas than it is in Utah, again with no loss of
quality? These are bipartisan issues that are not solved by simplistic name
RedS:Who said anything about perfectly? You call what we now have
perfection? Then give us a workable alternative. Romney did, but his party
deserted him because it hates Obama so much. Come on, lay your grand
conservative health-care plan out on the table. I'm waiting.
To "Roland Kayser" that guess has been thrown out. That defict
reduction was when the cost for the ACA was at $850 billion, and a deficit
reduction of $200 billion. The latest CBO estimates put it at $1.7 Trillion,
that means either you pay more in taxes or we go into debt by another trillion
thanks to Obamacare.To "pragmatistferlife" you realize that
the drug companies and medical device companies will still make their profits,
but now your care will cost more as the manufacturers pass those taxes along to
you.To "Kent C. DeForrest" but the ACA isn't being
implemented perfectly, and people are not doing as the government had planned.
So, now what?
Some people believe the CBO. Others believe Obama. We will find out who is
right. The fact is that the ones who will benefit (those with preexisting
conditions i.e. they are already sick) and those who will be subsidized will
think that it is great. Young, healthy men will not sign up. I know. I used to
sell health insurance. So the sick will sign up and the healthy will try to find
a way out and the whole system will crash. You must have more healthy people
paying in than those who are using the services or it will just not work.
The court has told us the Obamacare is a tax. We all know that Social Security
is a tax. We all know that Congress mixed the Social Security taxes that
we've all paid with the general fund. We all know that there is no money
to redeem those I.O.U.s. We all know that Obama will NOT honor his obligation
to pay Social Security to those who were forced to pay the tax.Why
would anyone think that Obamacare will not be used to fund anything and
everything EXCEPT health care? Those who believe the CBO are
foolish. They should study history and compare the predictions of the CBO
against the facts, then they would see for themselves that nothing the CBO
predicts ever happens.Obamacare is the biggest tax increase ever
passed in the history of America. It has nothing to do with healthcare. It is
just another Ponzi scheme that will fleece Americans. Anyone who tried to do
the same thing in the private sector would be spending the rest of his life in
Here's a message to those who are fighting against the wisdom of ACA. You
just don't -- or perhaps WON'T understand. Refusing to try to learn
the truth about any subject is a form of willful ignorance.Willful
ignorance is one of the worst tragedies in the human experience.If
you will make an effort to learn some simple facts, that "liberal logic"
will become clear and you just might end up slapping your forehead and
exclaiming, "How could I have been so blind to miss seeing that?"Turn your radio off and do some real research.
Cost should come down if the ACA is implemented cooperatively (get on board,
Utah), because it will provide appropriate care at normal costs to those who
under the current system are uninsured and are therefore receiving emergency
care at exorbitant costs, which are passed along to those of us who pay
insurance premiums.I find it hypocritical that the sky-is-falling
conservatives who hate Obama and foam at the mouth over his version of
Romneycare have yet to offer any serious ideas for dealing with the 50 million
uninsured in America and the inadequate, late, and exorbitantly expensive care
they are currently receiving. Their "turn health care over to the free
market" mantra is the same as saying "Let them die."The
first thing we ought to do with health care is divorce insurance from
employment. That is a stupid corporate ploy from the post-World War II years
that we have been saddled with for far too long. It's idiotic. If
we're going to spread costs around for large groups of employees (call it
corporate socialism, if you want), why not play the same game on a larger scale
and include all Americans?
Re: "If we can . . . make health care a service provided to all citizens, we
can cut costs."Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Grow government.
No, EXPLODE government. Vastly extend its power and reach. Extend its
beneficence to ever increasing numbers of people.To reduce costs?That's liberal logic for you.The only way to reduce
costs under such a regime would be to adopt the Mexican model. In Mexico,
everyone has an absolute, government-given right to health care. It's just
that there's no health care to be given. Unless you know someone, are
related to someone, or have a lot of money.There's the ACA
model for America's future, in a nutshell.Hmmmmm. Come to think
of it, that sounds a lot like Russia's -- or China's, or East
Germany's, or Cuba's, or Venezuela's, or Bolivia's, or North
Korea's, etc. -- past.
Democrats don't seem to know that there is no money tree. They
think the money trees grow in the back yards of certain people and that is why
they are wealthy.For as long as they are in control, there will be
no restraint on spending. They are in total denial of the problems they are
Taxes do increase under the ACA..on the beneficiaries of the law..drug companies
medical device providers etc. The same people who have made astronomical profits
the past 30 years without playing a significant economic role in the support of
health care. Taxes will not go up on individual tax payers. Roland
correctly points out that all states who are participating in the program have
shown smaller than usual increases in health care premiums for 2014. The claim
that premiums will sky rocket is simply not true.
If we can remove the concept of 'insurance' entirely from health, and
make health care a service provided to all citizens, we can cut costs.
The CBO has calculated that Obamacare reduces the deficit. California, Oregon,
and Washington have released preliminary price lists from their exchanges.
Health policy experts are surprised at the costs. Surprised at how cheap they
are. Cheaper, in fact, than many group policy.It is true that in
Republican states, where legislators and governors have done everything in their
power to make the act fail, costs will be higher. But that's not the