Immigration and security

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  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 24, 2013 4:05 p.m.

    Politicians keep saying they will "Fine" people for breaking our immigration law. Well how do you fine them if they don't have any money? That's the whole reason they are here hiding in the shadows for a below minimum wage job! THEY DON'T HAVE MONEY to pay fines!

    And if we can't get the guts to enforce our current laws.. what are the chances we will enforce the fines they pass in THIS law?

    What will end up happening is... we will be forced to pay for an attorney to help them fight having to pay the fines... and they will win. So instead of the law breaker having to pay a little fine... the US Tax payer will get a HUGE bill for every case they decide to try in court and get the fine paid.

    It's ridiculous to think that our politicians would really enforce ANY of this new bill.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 24, 2013 3:58 p.m.

    The problem is... Politicians don't see illegal immigration as a "Security" problem. They see it as a "I want to get re-elected" problem.

    As long as people in the media and in politics are able to frame the Immigration debate as the only way to get re-elected... you will get proposals like this, from BOTH sides.

    They BOTH want to get re-elected at all cost. Democrats are experts at using minority groups and special groups. The fictional "war against women", the war against gays, war against Hispanics, war against every racial minority in the book, you name it... the Democrats claim the Republicans are at war with it (and it wins them votes).

    Republicans see this happening, and their strategists and the media keeps telling them until they play like the Democrats they will keep losing. So what can you do? Both sides are now just fighting for every minority vote they can get, and to frame the other party as "Hating" every voting minority out there.

    We are bound to get an arms race of who can bend over farthest and promise the most things to the minority they need to get elected.

  • prelax Murray, UT
    June 24, 2013 3:01 a.m.

    Call this the selling of America.

    Penalties for business hiring people here illegally are; first offenders, there is a $250-$2,000 fine per illegal employee. For a second offense, the fine is $2,000-$5,000 per illegal employee.
    For employers who have been convicted of hiring illegal immigrants more than twice, the fine can range from $3000-$10,000 per employee. If the employer demonstrates a pervasive pattern of knowingly employing illegal immigrants, he or she could face additional fines, and up to six months in jail. This does not include “harboring” illegal immigrants, or knowingly employing ten or more illegal immigrants in one year. Harboring an illegal immigrant can lead to ten years of prison time.

    Guess what, business wants amnesty also. The bill gives it to them.

    We need full enforcement of our laws, we have tried amnesty seven times and it hasn't accomplished anything. Our leaders need to write bills themselves, and not rely on business lobbyists to do it.

  • VickieB SLC, UT
    June 23, 2013 11:58 p.m.

    Their is no border enforcement in this bill. It's up to the disgression of the head of Homeland security. No visa enforcement either. If a person overstays their visa and has worked here for 10 years, they get a free green card.

    We need to finish the 710 miles of fence, we also need e-verify, more judges, and interior enforcement. This is what we were promised in 1986. Take the 20,000 and turn them lose in the country deporting people.

    The people here illegally are replacements, not new jobs. They replace the American worker. The benefit to business is cheap labor subsidized by the American taxpayer. People here illegally will benefit with a small raise in pay, and the Taxpayer will be stuck supplying welfare to millions of new people. States and local government will suffer the most.

    Many of the 20 million looking for full time work are working part time, looking for full time wages. When Obamacare hits, many of you will be working 29 hours. Those here illegally will give them new workers to fill the extra hours.

    Republican and Democrats need to stand up to business.

  • Alfred Pheonix, AZ
    June 23, 2013 4:45 p.m.

    @Roland Kayser:
    "Border control is not the real issue in this debate, what is?"

    Overstaying visas is the new immigration problem... that the Congress is refusing to address in their immigration bill.

    @Ultra Bob:
    "The cause of the uncontrolled immigration is the economic benefit to American business of low wages and the chance for a better life by the immigrants."

    And the cause of that part of the immigration problem is failure on the part of the Obama administration to enforce the very tool that was created to solve that problem... E-Verify.

    "We can’t change the problems in Mexico and we can’t change the benefit to American business."

    What we can change is to stop paying unemployment for 99 weeks so the unemployed American will be forced to get back to work in order to feed their faces using other than tax money.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 23, 2013 10:12 a.m.

    The answer to the question of Why requires that you first know what you are talking about.

    The cause of the uncontrolled immigration is the economic benefit to American business of low wages and the chance for a better life by the immigrants. We can’t change the problems in Mexico and we can’t change the benefit to American business. As long as businessmen run our government our government will not do any thing to slow or stop the immigration.

    Wars between nations are fought with the weapons of the most up-to-date vintage possible. The current war is a war of information and the minds of people. Our survival will depend on our ability to develop the new weapons required. To find these new weapons, people may experience some discomfort.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 23, 2013 9:43 a.m.

    In 1993 we had 4028 border control agents, in 2003 we had 10,717, this year we have 21,394. We currently spend more on border control than we do on any other law enforcement activity. Net migration from Mexico is currently right around zero, meaning as many illegal immigrants are leaving as are coming.

    Border control is not the real issue in this debate, what is?

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    June 23, 2013 9:31 a.m.

    Because there isn't a border security problem. The current immigration bill is a mess, largely because of this misguided focus on border security. Build a bigger fence! Police the border with drones! Electronic surveillance! It's ridiculous.
    We are not at war, and there really aren't all that many people coming over. (In fact, close of half of all illegal immigrants are people who are overstaying their visas). And those who do come over are helping grow our economy.